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DART+ (DART Expansion)
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dRNk SAnTA wrote: »For those too lazy to read the documents, I've put together an image to summarise the "Business Case" report from the NTA. Including maps of each "Alternative". :eek:
http://i.imgur.com/vbfVxQA.jpg?1
Are these people, aka professional transport engineers, having a laugh? I feel sick.
How exactly would that "turnback" work?
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How exactly would that "turnback" work?
Drive into a dead-end, park train, walk to the far end, restart train, drive off for the return journey. I can imagine it will do wonders for capacity...or not.
I presume a loop is intended as someone above mentioned but it still does nothing for line capacity.
Someone above also asked if there is a turning loop like that in place anywhere else and I'm nearly sure that Schwabstrasse in Stuttgart has one where 3 of the 6 lines use that. But then again, it is part if the bigger picture.
Openrailwaymap.org will reveal all.0 -
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It's important to remember the context. Ireland went from devoting over 5% of GDP to public capital spending in 2008 to 2% in just 4 years. From fifth highest in the EU to 2nd lowest.
There was a lot of talk of expenditure consolidation over those years but you don't really see it in the numbers except for capital spend falling off the cliff.
The forthcoming Capital Plan is unlikely to see total spend creep much above 2.0% of GDP, about half of what it was during the boom years.
This is not a given. A policy choice was made in the downturn to prioritise current spending over capital. Even though the economy is recovering it would seem that this policy is set to continue.
Gross fixed capital formation by general government sector % of GDP
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Possible option to minimise Dart Underground costs without comprising key objectives:-
- Move station at Heuston back to closer to tunnel portal at north west of station. Station would be at tunnel portal well below ground level. Station is dug out open hole thus removing requirement for expensive mined station box and ventilation/smoke extraction system. Construct a new cut and cover underpass under tracks at west of station. This would reduce travel distance from intercity platforms. Create a new entrance from Saint John's Road across from the Eircom HQ that feeds into the underpass.
- Drop station at Christchurch. Not ideal but if saving must be made this is potentially a large one. Also avoid the cost/controversy of digging at wood quay. Would have the silver lining of improved journey times.
- Leave Stephens Green and Pearse station as originally planned.
- Move the dockland station north to outside the tunnel portal adjacent to the current proposed tunnel portal location and current Docklands station. Not as an ideal location but again huge saver with having a much simpler non mined station with no mechanical ventilation systems required.
- Use a single TBM, and tunnel from Heuston to Docklands, recondition and turn back. Would add approx 18 months but would reduce cost significantly.
- Four tracking from Parkwest to Heuston including Inchicore station as separate project started after tunnel construction begins. Large multi billion capital projects seem to be more politically acceptable if split across numerous smaller with starts spread over a number of years as per the national motorway program. Due to the lengthened delivery time with a single TBM it could still be ready for the tunnel even if started a few years later.
0 - Move station at Heuston back to closer to tunnel portal at north west of station. Station would be at tunnel portal well below ground level. Station is dug out open hole thus removing requirement for expensive mined station box and ventilation/smoke extraction system. Construct a new cut and cover underpass under tracks at west of station. This would reduce travel distance from intercity platforms. Create a new entrance from Saint John's Road across from the Eircom HQ that feeds into the underpass.
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What was DU supposed to actually do though? Im struggling to see what benefit spending billions upon billions connecting Heuston to the DART stations was supposed to bring compared to whats there already. As long as something is being connected to the airport Im happy.
It actually had many functions:- Greater penetration in to city centre destinations. Are you more likely to take public transport if it drops you 25mins walk from your office or 5mins walk.
- Greater utilisation of existing railway lines. The line into Heuston could easily carry 30,000 passengers an hour, at peak hours it currently carries around a fifth of this. Meanwhile the roads adjacent to it are gridlocked. If the train was made more desirable (via point 1 for example) more people would choose it over driving.
- By-pass the Connolly bottleneck. Currently the loop line is the only Liffey crossing, and is restricted to just 12 trains per hour per direction. Resignalling can increase that to 19, but then that's the hard limit. DART Underground would have created a new Liffey crossing, with an extra 20 trains per hour per direction capacity.
- Link up all different public transport lines into a network. We have plenty of high quality public transport lines in Dublin, but they are all of a point to point nature, most journeys are on one line and don't involve transfers. By making it easy to change you greatly increase the possible journeys that can be made. For example, currently a journey from Clondalkin to Howth would involve two changes and around 500m of walking. With DART Underground that would be one change and around 100m walk.
- Finally it was future proofed, many of the proposed long term public transport plans could use the DART as a backbone. No need for a new path through the city centre, just link up with the tunnel and most major city destinations are 5 mins walk from a station.
Look at the Oslo t-ban for example.
All of the spiderlegs coming out of the city were all old trainlines and tram routes. In the 80's the central tunnel was built and it all the separate routes were tied in to it to create a network. No matter which line you are on, all the city centre stations are accessible, Jernbantorget is the main railway and bus station, Stortinget is in the middle of the main shopping street and Nationaltheatret is beside most of the main tourist attractions. Trains serve that Central section every 60 seconds are so. The inner high density suburbs also have very frequent trains, as you move to the outer suburbs only two lines serve the station so trains are about every 6 minutes, and further out again only one line serves the station so trains are only every 15mins.
Oslo's population is smaller than Dublin's.
That was a much longer post than I intended to write.
TL:DR DART Underground would have increased the usage on existing train lines, provided capacity for the future and brought more of the city close to high quality public transport. See Oslo for a peer city where a similar tunnel works very well.
EDIT: Just in case anyone goes to Oslo don't try to navigate using the map I posted. Just noticed its the old one. Been a few improvements since then.0 - Greater penetration in to city centre destinations. Are you more likely to take public transport if it drops you 25mins walk from your office or 5mins walk.
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abitofacomedian wrote: »It actually had many functions:
- Greater penetration in to city centre destinations. Are you more likely to take public transport if it drops you 25mins walk from your office or 5mins walk.
- Greater utilisation of existing railway lines. The line into Heuston could easily carry 30,000 passengers an hour, at peak hours it currently carries around a fifth of this. Meanwhile the roads adjacent to it are gridlocked. If the train was made more desirable (via point 1 for example) more people would choose it over driving.
- By-pass the Connolly bottleneck. Currently the loop line is the only Liffey crossing, and is restricted to just 12 trains per hour per direction. Resignalling can increase that to 19, but then that's the hard limit. DART Underground would have created a new Liffey crossing, with an extra 20 trains per hour per direction capacity.
- Link up all different public transport lines into a network. We have plenty of high quality public transport lines in Dublin, but they are all of a point to point nature, most journeys are on one line and don't involve transfers. By making it easy to change you greatly increase the possible journeys that can be made. For example, currently a journey from Clondalkin to Howth would involve two changes and around 500m of walking. With DART Underground that would be one change and around 100m walk.
- Finally it was future proofed, many of the proposed long term public transport plans could use the DART as a backbone. No need for a new path through the city centre, just link up with the tunnel and most major city destinations are 5 mins walk from a station.
Look at the Oslo t-ban for example.
All of the spiderlegs coming out of the city were all old trainlines and tram routes. In the 80's the central tunnel was built and it all the separate routes were tied in to it to create a network. No matter which line you are on, all the city centre stations are accessible, Jernbantorget is the main railway and bus station, Stortinget is in the middle of the main shopping street and Nationaltheatret is beside most of the main tourist attractions. Trains serve that Central section every 60 seconds are so. The inner high density suburbs also have very frequent trains, as you move to the outer suburbs only two lines serve the station so trains are about every 6 minutes, and further out again only one line serves the station so trains are only every 15mins.
Oslo's population is smaller than Dublin's.
That was a much longer post than I intended to write.
TL:DR DART Underground would have increased the usage on existing train lines, provided capacity for the future and brought more of the city close to high quality public transport. See Oslo for a peer city where a similar tunnel works very well.
Some good points well made.
You did leave out one key aspect and that is that there would be two separate DART lines (Maynooth-Bray/Greystones and Howth/Malahide-Hazelhatch).
That would mean no more conflicts at Connolly where an inbound train off the Maynooth line blocks both lines to get onto the loop line.0 - Greater penetration in to city centre destinations. Are you more likely to take public transport if it drops you 25mins walk from your office or 5mins walk.
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