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The devil makes work for ideal brains!

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  • 24-07-2009 4:31pm
    #1
    IrishKnight
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭


    So when ever I have little to do, my mind always seems to wander towards thinking about the big fella, god. Before I go into it, perhaps it might be useful to know some things about me. Raised RC, became atheist at 16, more or less it.

    I became an atheist as I rejected the idea of the RC god and other like that, that is to say the Abrahamic conception of God. The whole idea of a big man in the sky who watches over me is foolish to me, but hey if people want to believe it that is fine.

    However, lately I've started thinking about my atheism and the question of god. Basically I've started to move away from atheism. Perhaps, "god", and I am using the word god for want of a better word, is the world around us and nothing more. Now I am not talking about some spirit or force or "mother earth" or what ever you want to call it, I am simply talking about nature, the world of science and to some extent, ourselves.

    Hear me out on this, my understanding of god is that it is that thing that made us all, that crated all we see. To some people, god is there to bridge the gap in what we don't know, such as how did the universe start off.

    So taking the above into account, nature created us, the laws of science explain how this happen and while we don't know everything that is fine. 100's of years ago we knew very little of the world around us and now look at us, as science grows, god shrinks.

    Could we be gods? Could each and everyone of us be a god, after all it is we who control our live and it is we who create our own reality. Perhaps, we are the "architect."

    While not the best written book in the world, I always remember one quote from "Angles and Demons" and that is, "Science and religion are not at odds. Science is just too young to understand." And maybe that is the case, science and religion are, at times, see as two different things, but perhaps they both have the same aim, but just go about it in different ways. After all the aim of religion is to "know god" while the aim of science is to explain the world around us and how we got here. From my point of view, aren't those one in the same?

    The reason I post this is because I need to get it off my chest, but I do welcome comments, both positive and negative.

    Is mise,
    IK


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    #2
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    You're going to have to think about what exactly a "god" is to you, and come up with a definition which makes some sense. That, or just abandon the word "god" as completely useless.
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    Perhaps, "god", and I am using the word god for want of a better word, is the world around us and nothing more. Now I am not talking about some spirit or force or "mother earth" or what ever you want to call it, I am simply talking about nature, the world of science and to some extent, ourselves.
    So why call it "god"? Why not "the world around us"? What advantage is there in calling it "god"?
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    Could we be gods? Could each and everyone of us be a god, after all it is we who control our live and it is we who create our own reality. Perhaps, we are the "architect."
    But what the hell is a "god"? Why call us gods? Why not people?


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    #3
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    IrishKnight wrote: »
    So when ever I have little to do, my mind always seems to wander towards thinking about the big fella, god. Before I go into it, perhaps it might be useful to know some things about me. Raised RC, became atheist at 16, more or less it.

    I became an atheist as I rejected the idea of the RC god and other like that, that is to say the Abrahamic conception of God. The whole idea of a big man in the sky who watches over me is foolish to me, but hey if people want to believe it that is fine.[/quot]

    So you became a abrahamic athiest, but what about other ideas and concepts of gods?
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    However, lately I've started thinking about my atheism and the question of god. Basically I've started to move away from atheism. Perhaps, "god", and I am using the word god for want of a better word, is the world around us and nothing more. Now I am not talking about some spirit or force or "mother earth" or what ever you want to call it, I am simply talking about nature, the world of science and to some extent, ourselves.

    Ah sounds like you are becoming agnostic.
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    Could we be gods? Could each and everyone of us be a god, after all it is we who control our live and it is we who create our own reality. Perhaps, we are the "architect."

    Have you considered reading up on the concepts of Buddhism?
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    After all the aim of religion is to "know god" while the aim of science is to explain the world around us and how we got here. From my point of view, aren't those one in the same?

    Some people seem to think so, personally I don't.


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    #4
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    IrishKnight wrote: »
    I became an atheist as I rejected the idea of the RC god and other like that, that is to say the Abrahamic conception of God. The whole idea of a big man in the sky who watches over me is foolish to me, but hey if people want to believe it that is fine.

    Just because one does not wish to be a Catholic does not necessarily mean that the Abrahamic God is totally out of the question. Just wondering, have you read the Biblical text concerning God before deciding to reject Him?
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    So taking the above into account, nature created us, the laws of science explain how this happen and while we don't know everything that is fine. 100's of years ago we knew very little of the world around us and now look at us, as science grows, god shrinks.

    How could nature create us, if nature itself would have to be orchestrated in a certain way or in a certain order. Nature itself concerns a functional process by which all things are ordered. The next question would be to ask, who or what created this functional order?
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    Could we be gods? Could each and everyone of us be a god, after all it is we who control our live and it is we who create our own reality. Perhaps, we are the "architect."

    Interesting question, but do we really control our lives or is there more behind how events can occur? If nature is the functional process by which all things are ordered, surely we are limited by these confines, and these confines have ultimate control over our lives? This is why the question or who or what has created these confines of nature is so important. The author of these, has ultimate authority over how all things operate but has given us a degree of free will if we are to look to how human experience works. There are some things I can't control that will affect my life.
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    While not the best written book in the world, I always remember one quote from "Angles and Demons" and that is, "Science and religion are not at odds. Science is just too young to understand." And maybe that is the case, science and religion are, at times, see as two different things, but perhaps they both have the same aim, but just go about it in different ways. After all the aim of religion is to "know god" while the aim of science is to explain the world around us and how we got here. From my point of view, aren't those one in the same?

    I agree with you here. Science and religion deal with different types of questions, the first with what can be observed around us, and the second with the metaphysical, or anything if anything above and beyond the seen.
    IrishKnight wrote: »
    The reason I post this is because I need to get it off my chest, but I do welcome comments, both positive and negative.

    Thanks for that :)


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    #5
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    IrishKnight wrote: »
    So when ever I have little to do, my mind always seems to wander towards thinking about the big fella, god. Before I go into it, perhaps it might be useful to know some things about me. Raised RC, became atheist at 16, more or less it.

    I became an atheist as I rejected the idea of the RC god and other like that, that is to say the Abrahamic conception of God. The whole idea of a big man in the sky who watches over me is foolish to me, but hey if people want to believe it that is fine.

    However, lately I've started thinking about my atheism and the question of god. Basically I've started to move away from atheism. Perhaps, "god", and I am using the word god for want of a better word, is the world around us and nothing more. Now I am not talking about some spirit or force or "mother earth" or what ever you want to call it, I am simply talking about nature, the world of science and to some extent, ourselves.

    Hear me out on this, my understanding of god is that it is that thing that made us all, that crated all we see. To some people, god is there to bridge the gap in what we don't know, such as how did the universe start off.

    So taking the above into account, nature created us, the laws of science explain how this happen and while we don't know everything that is fine. 100's of years ago we knew very little of the world around us and now look at us, as science grows, god shrinks.

    Could we be gods? Could each and everyone of us be a god, after all it is we who control our live and it is we who create our own reality. Perhaps, we are the "architect."

    While not the best written book in the world, I always remember one quote from "Angles and Demons" and that is, "Science and religion are not at odds. Science is just too young to understand." And maybe that is the case, science and religion are, at times, see as two different things, but perhaps they both have the same aim, but just go about it in different ways. After all the aim of religion is to "know god" while the aim of science is to explain the world around us and how we got here. From my point of view, aren't those one in the same?

    The reason I post this is because I need to get it off my chest, but I do welcome comments, both positive and negative.

    Is mise,
    IK


    Hi OP.

    You sound similar to me. The problem i have with expressing my feelings on the matter is that it's difficult to define for others what you mean. You have to deal with age old aversion to religious terminology and break through the reactionary mind.
    In a way you need to reclaim the word "god" for you and your own understanding.

    For me god is inexplicable. For me it's my true nature. Free from the reactionary mind and ego. Complete awareness and understanding. NOT a guy in the clouds steering our lives.

    I've been wondering of late, if it is even neccessary to discuss it because my understanding is different to everyone elses. I've also wondered if my need to express or defend my viewpoint actually detracts from my true understanding. I only seem to truly "understand" when my mind is still but 100% aware. Perhaps there is no need to understand. It just is.

    Regarding Science and Spirituality (for want of a different word :rolleyes:), i think they are opposite sides of the same coin, but indifferent/unaware to each others similarities. I think when both start to work together the world will be a much better place. Whether or not it will lead to a greater understanding of "god" is yet to be seen, because i really think that is individual. The funny thing is that both Science and Religion dilute the importance/complexity of the individual. Now why on earth would that be.....;)

    If there is one thing i have learned is just how pre-programmed my mind was. In particular my reactionary mind. I was never conciously aware of it untill recently. Not untill i asked myself: Can i stop thinking? and what happens if i do?. My mind fizzled but i stuck on through and will continue to because it's possible to be free and know what "god" feels like. The answer to everything is inside everyone of us!


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    #6
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Jakkass wrote: »
    There are some things I can't control that will affect my life.


    No but you can control how they affect your life. The environment just is. How you interact with it, is up to you. If you feel "god" then his way is the only way.


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    #7
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    IrishKnight wrote: »

    ...... I am simply talking about nature, the world of science and to some extent, ourselves.

    This sentence of yours comes close to expressing a view of God that I particularly hold and like. i.e. That God is a representation (for us) of the infinity of not just nature but also of our thoughts (and consciousness of ourselves and others and of our consciousness of the World).

    Because God represents 'infinity' we all come from this 'infinity',are all part of this 'infinity' and will all return to this 'infinity' in the end. (Nothing can exist outside of infinity).

    God REPRESENTS the Totality of both nature AND culture (consciousness).


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    #8
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    togster wrote: »
    No but you can control how they affect your life. The environment just is. How you interact with it, is up to you. If you feel "god" then his way is the only way.

    Can you?

    I believe that humans only really have limited autonomy. We have enough freedoms to decide our normal every day affairs.

    However, I cannot decide how I would feel if a close relative died. My emotions would determine that for me, and I don't think I could suddenly decide how I felt and put on the biggest grin in the world.

    You have to admit that there are many things that are beyond our control, even their effects on us.


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    #9
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Joe1919 wrote: »
    This sentence of yours comes close to expressing a view of God that I particularly hold and like. i.e. That God is a representation (for us) of the infinity of not just nature but also of our thoughts (and consciousness of ourselves and others and of our consciousness of the World).

    Because God represents 'infinity' we all come from this 'infinity',are all part of this 'infinity' and will all return to this 'infinity' in the end. (Nothing can exist outside of infinity).

    God REPRESENTS the Totality of both nature AND culture (consciousness).
    Why do you need the word "God"?

    This is a question to everyone btw. To me, "god" seems to be 3 letters that represent a huge range of different things, why do people bother with the word?


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    #10
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Why do you need the word "God"?

    This is a question to everyone btw. To me, "god" seems to be 3 letters that represent a huge range of different things, why do people bother with the word?

    We are 'thrown' into this world in which certain ideas and public-languages are a pre-supposition of our own thoughts. i.e. We live in a world where people talk of 'God' and every town and village has some type of 'church'.
    Hence, I can't, as an individual ignore or blot this idea out, because the idea exists in the public realm that 'God' exists and hence 'God' exists, as least as an idea or concept.

    All I can do is try to rationalise 'what' and 'why' of this 'concept' of God and what it represents.

    But I agree with you in terms that this name 'God' need not necessarily exist but what this name 'God' represents is our attempts to conceptualise the place of our consciousness in nature.
    If the 'churches' are ever pulled down and 'God' is forgotten about by everyone, 'God' will no longer exist. (by this view).


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    #11
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Pizza represents a huge range of bread like bases and toppings. Why bother with the word.

    Everything needs words to describe it. Common concepts have a single word (noun, verb, ajective etc) and less well known or new phenomena have a phrase.

    In 10,000 years almost of written history I think every language has a word for God. Why should English at this point in time drop the word?

    Especially when the vast majority of English speakers believe in some sort of God and most Atheists need the word "god" to explain easily what is daft and non-logical about the beliefs of their fellow humans.


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    #12
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    watty wrote: »

    Especially when the vast majority of English speakers believe in some sort of God and most Atheists need the word "god" to explain easily what is daft and non-logical about the beliefs of their fellow humans.

    Indeed, Atheists define themselves by the idea of God. If God or its idea did not exist, atheists as 'Atheists' would not exist.
    Hence many people (including Karl Marx) refuse to call themselves athiests as its defines ones being or essence (what one is) in terms of God and in negative terms. (What one is not )


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    #13
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    The problem with the word "god" is that it has many different meanings to different people. I'm going to refer to god as Infinity from now on :pac:

    It's the problem with alot of words. Especially describing how one feels. You can get close but never know exactly what another person feels.


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