GP s escaping under the rip off redar

ArthurGuinness

Fair play to Dr's they are entitled to it as far as I am concerned they go through alot of work to get where they are and they have overheads like any other buisness there insurance alone is crazy. You cant put a price on your health.

Shelflife

I think that the general point being made is that nearly every business has made cutbacks on prices and margins, we (selfemployed) are all working longer hours for less and by and large we are all accepting that.

however it would appear that GPs (and dentists imo) have not taken a reduction in their margins and have not reduced their prices.

Blue_Wolf

Sooo.... Perhaps I would have been better off if my "ould" man was a builder, that way I would have had a house built for me for pittens.

Everyone has perks from their job and their families. Get over it.

mikom wrote: »

I'm sure your ould lad could prescribe something for that.
Probably give you a discount on the €50 as well.

L1011

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

Perhaps the average doctor doesn't. But, my father spent 12 years in college. I was wrong to generalise but I don't like idiots to put hard working people down. 50euro for 20minutes does not go straight into the pocket. The overheads are huge. People who make stupid comments annoy me.

I'm well aware what the overheads are (I am one... an overhead that is ), and I also know that the GMS scheme does basically underpay a doctor for how often medical card holders visit. Private only practices charge 30-35 for the same consultation usually, as they're not having to subsidise medical card patients.

I've a customer who opened his own surgery at 28 so it is entirely possible to be through and out the other side in 10 years or less.

ejmaztec

In an effort to save money, many more people are turning to homeopaths, and other practitioners of alternative medicine these days, as is evident by an ever-increasing number of these in business around the country.

Some people frown on these practitioners, and others don't. Some GPs must be getting a little concerned.

NewApproach

Doctors studied for many years, ammasing a vast knowledge of the body and how it is treated. This so called 'rip off' is the price you pay for this knowledge. Just because something is expensive does not make it a rip off. Far from it. As someone said, you cant put a price on health.

Shelflife

NewApproach wrote: »

Doctors studied for many years, ammasing a vast knowledge of the body and how it is treated. This so called 'rip off' is the price you pay for this knowledge. Just because something is expensive does not make it a rip off. Far from it. As someone said, you cant put a price on health.

many other service providers have studied for many years amassing a vast knowledge of the service that they provide as well.

yet they have been forced to cut margins and pay. the heath care industry appears to have not cut their margins.

jayteecork

€50 for a consultation is more than worth it IF(and that's a big if) you get a decent doctor who isn't a condescending miserable pr***.

GPs I think more than other other profession can get away with MURDER.

How long would a bad plumber last, or a bad solicitor? They'd be gone under in a year, yet bad GPs never seem to go away.

They don't seem to be accountable for anything, whatsoever,

Svalbard

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

You are an idiot! They have really expensive insurance, they pay tonnes and tonnes of tax, they spent over 15years in college (which costs a fortune) They spent 10years working the good guts of 24hour shifts and feck all money.

So ya after all the hard work they spent 25 years learning how to do their job and save lives you have begrudge them just because you didn't bother working hard for something in life.

If anything you should be moaning about tradesmen who spent 3 years learning a trade charge more than doctors do and dont even do the job properly.

Take your head out of your ass.

One extreme.....

MYOB wrote: »

GPs do not spend 15 years in college, nor do they spend 10 years doing the kind of shifts hospital doctors do post-qualification.

You do a medical degree (generally 5 years), then a 4 year GP training programme - of which the last two years are in a surgery as a GP trainee. After that you are fully qualified.

After 7 years you are a "GP", albeit a trainee and after 9 you're fully qualified. That is a HELL of a long way off the 25 year figure you've pulled from somewhere. The first two years of the GP training programme are the ones with 24 hour shifts in hospitals - not anywhere near the ten years you've suggested either.

You can also work as a GP here with a MB equivalent from another EU country and a CSTAR. You could in theory have both of these done in about 6 years...

......and the other.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

5-6 of medical school (most if not all current GPs spent 6 years in medical school) and 1 year of internship. How long it then takes you to complete GP training depends on whether or not you are successful in gaining a place on a GP training scheme (no small feat, competition is fierce) and on how many years of applying it takes you to get on one. That's assuming one takes this route; many of our current GPs gained their experience independent of training schemes and/or worked in the UK. Others trained in different fields before opting for GP.
So its 10 years minimum to be a GP (5 years medical school + 1 year internship + 4 years specialist training) assuming one follows this idealised path.

Also there is no point lumping GP Registrars (i.e. doctors working as GPs in training) into the category of GPs for the purpose of this discussion; they are paid a salary by the HSE and receive no private income from their practice.

Shelflife wrote: »

I think that the general point being made is that nearly every business has made cutbacks on prices and margins, we (selfemployed) are all working longer hours for less and by and large we are all accepting that.

however it would appear that GPs (and dentists imo) have not taken a reduction in their margins and have not reduced their prices.

GPs fees for GMS services have been reduced by the HSE.

ejmaztec wrote: »

In an effort to save money, many more people are turning to homeopaths, and other practitioners of alternative medicine these days, as is evident by an ever-increasing number of these in business around the country.

Some people frown on these practitioners, and others don't. Some GPs must be getting a little concerned.

Concerned that people with potentially serious medical problems will present late due to wasting their time with quacks.

Shelflife wrote: »

many other service providers have studied for many years amassing a vast knowledge of the service that they provide as well.

yet they have been forced to cut margins and pay. the heath care industry appears to have not cut their margins.

So the 34% cut in fees to pharmacists doesn't count as a cut back?

ejmaztec

Svalbard wrote: »

Concerned that people with potentially serious medical problems will present late due to wasting their time with quacks.

As I said, some people frown on the alternative practitioners, and others don't. Our GP has more than conventional medicine covered in his repertoire, also delving into homeopathy.

Some people with serious medical problems don't even bother going to their GP due to the cost.

chocgirl

ejmaztec wrote: »

In an effort to save money, many more people are turning to homeopaths, and other practitioners of alternative medicine these days, as is evident by an ever-increasing number of these in business around the country.

Some people frown on these practitioners, and others don't. Some GPs must be getting a little concerned.

I agree completely that this is happening but I genuinely find this mentality so difficult to understand.

Why would anybody turn from conventional evidence based medicine to alternative practitioners. Homeopaths are generally more expensive than GPs for an initial consultation and haven't had the aforementioned training.

Is it that they think they're annoying the doctors? Punishing them because they're not saving any money, probably cost more in the long run when they end up having to go back to their GP.

bogview

Shelflife wrote: »

I think that the general point being made is that nearly every business has made cutbacks on prices and margins, we (selfemployed) are all working longer hours for less and by and large we are all accepting that.

however it would appear that GPs (and dentists imo) have not taken a reduction in their margins and have not reduced their prices.

100% the point being made....there has been no attempt by doctors to give any reduction in theses difficult times like all other business:mad:

TaxiManMartin

eth0_ wrote: »

I am a woman. €50-70 is the going rate for female haircuts in Dublin.

My other half and her friends have the hairdresser come out one evening a month to our house. She cuts all of their hair for €20 each. They make a girls night out of it every month and i get banned from the house.

L1011

bogview wrote: »

100% the point being made....there has been no attempt by doctors to give any reduction in theses difficult times like all other business:mad:

I've seen at least three customers who've had signs up in their surgery advertising/notifying a consultation price decrease. Sure, we're talking fivers off 55 generally but it is a reduction none the less.

ejmaztec

chocgirl wrote: »

I agree completely that this is happening but I genuinely find this mentality so difficult to understand.

Why would anybody turn from conventional evidence based medicine to alternative practitioners. Homeopaths are generally more expensive than GPs for an initial consultation and haven't had the aforementioned training.

Is it that they think they're annoying the doctors? Punishing them because they're not saving any money, probably cost more in the long run when they end up having to go back to their GP.

I think that there are a variety of reasons for the increase in popularity.
Some neurotic people visit their GPs and don't feel that they're being looked after properly, so try something else. The slighest error made by a GP might drive a patient away, or even a funny look from a receptionist. Then there's word of mouth, where "miracles" have happened e.g. little Pat's rash has disappeared overnight when the GP couldn't get rid of it.

Some of it must be the same mentality that leads to the worship of a Rathkeale tree-stump.

They're just getting more and more respectable, even more so when GPs like mine are also into it, as well as taking the more conventional approach. I think it's common knowledge that many of the ingredients in homeopathic pills and potions are also found in the pharmaceutical cocktails provided by the big-bucks drug companies.

Svalbard

ejmaztec wrote: »

As I said, some people frown on the alternative practitioners, and others don't. Our GP has more than conventional medicine covered in his repertoire, also delving into homeopathy.

Some people with serious medical problems don't even bother going to their GP due to the cost.

The question isn't conventional versus alternative medicine - the only medicine that matters is evidence based.

If there is no credible scientific evidence that a particular treatment works, be it paracetamol or bee pollen, a doctor has no business advocating it's use.

ejmaztec

Svalbard wrote: »

The question isn't conventional versus alternative medicine - the only medicine that matters is evidence based.

If there is no credible scientific evidence that a particular treatment works, be it paracetamol or bee pollen, a doctor has no business advocating it's use.

Didn't say that our GP did, nor any other. Why would they?

swingking

bogview wrote: »

100% the point being made....there has been no attempt by doctors to give any reduction in theses difficult times like all other business:mad:

Why should they? Just because you say so?

Sure, I might as well go into my local shop and ask for a reduction because of the tough times.

Would you ever get a life and stop begrudging hard working people. I bet you're someone who is always moaning about the prices of everthing.

ArthurGuinness

Why should doctors reduce what they charge they have already taken cuts on what they recieve from the government for medical card holders and that being said, those who really cant afford to see there GP are covered mainly by the medical card scheme. While were at it why not have a pop at dentists to I was charged €70 for a clean and check up the last time I went but was happy to give my money to such a health care provider. It seems to me the people who complain about not being able to afford to go to the dr and such are the ones you see falling out of the pub on a saturday night.

ejmaztec

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

Why should doctors reduce what they charge they have already taken cuts on what they recieve from the government for medical card holders and that being said, those who really cant afford to see there GP are covered mainly by the medical card scheme. While were at it why not have a pop at dentists to I was charged €70 for a clean and check up the last time I went but was happy to give my money to such a health care provider. It seems to me the people who complain about not being able to afford to go to the dr and such are the ones you see falling out of the pub on a saturday night.

That's entirely your fault, Arthur.:p


ps Consider dentists also popped.

ArthurGuinness

ejmaztec wrote: »

Poor devils with those overheads so huge, they can barely afford to live on the meagre pittance that they shovel into the back of their Mercs.:eek:

My uncle is a GP and he drives a 02 Ford Fiesta ( Altough it is a high spec Ghia model lol)

And my personal GP drives a 00 Skoda

ejmaztec

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

My uncle is a GP and he drives a 02 Ford Fiesta ( Altough it is a high spec Ghia model lol)

And my personal GP drives a 00 Skoda

There always have to be exceptions, in the same way that there could be a couple of Irish politicians who actually do a good job.

Wreck

Many GP practices have suffered greatly over the last year, mostly due to the cut in medical card holders and payments. Two of our clients (I'm an accountant) are in all likelihood going to make a loss this year, and will probably be forced into laying off nurses and receptionists, which will undoubtedly have a knock-on effect on the service offered to patients. And for what it's worth, my GP drives an 1998 Merc, and one of our clients drives a 02 Honda Civic.

Rugger7

My GP used to charge €50 (last year), but when I went back the other week It cost me €55. Granted it's not much of an increase, but what p***ed me off was the fact that it did increase, and during a recession. If anything it shoulda gone down by a fiver.

spuddy

GP visit in France, €22 (for those not covered by the healthcare system).
GP visit in Ireland, €55 (150% more)
I don't get it.

ArthurGuinness

spuddy wrote: »

GP visit in France, €22 (for those not covered by the healthcare system).
GP visit in Ireland, €55 (150% more)
I don't get it.

I only pay €40 to see mine. And its like everyother type of product or service being provided in Ireland the cost of doing biz is higher that means the cost to the consumer is going to be higher. Wages are higher, rates,taxes and VAT is higher, insurance prems are higher, the cost of rent is higher, the cost to buy a property is higher, the cost of energy is higher and so on. It all adds up you know

iguy

In My local medical centre,there is five gp's plus seven nurses(also two parttimers that work when its busy)it also has an array of other medical practictioners(specialists)twelve in total of different qualifications(something like the clinic on rte1,just much bigger)
Anyways i'll get to my point,a visit to a regular gp costs €88.50(call out to home €97) visit to the nurse costs between €50 and €63(call out to home €70)the other medical specialists are bill pay at a maximum of €190 and a minimum of €35 prescription charges apply,and charges do vary,sometimes there is no prescription charge at all...medical card holders get free treatment,however they have to wait to see any specialists...anyways i think the above prices are absolutly ridiculous!!!

Svalbard

iguy wrote: »

In My local medical centre,there is five gp's plus seven nurses(also two parttimers that work when its busy)it also has an array of other medical practictioners(specialists)twelve in total of different qualifications(something like the clinic on rte1,just much bigger)
Anyways i'll get to my point,a visit to a regular gp costs €88.50(call out to home €97) visit to the nurse costs between €50 and €63(call out to home €70)the other medical specialists are bill pay at a maximum of €190 and a minimum of €35 prescription charges apply,and charges do vary,sometimes there is no prescription charge at all...medical card holders get free treatment,however they have to wait to see any specialists...anyways i think the above prices are absolutly ridiculous!!!

Find another GP, iguy. Seriously.

Blue_Wolf

They shouldn't be allowed to charge the same rate if they haven't spent the time. All professionals have their Awards and related qualifications on the wall. I don't see why people don't look at them. I mean I would want the best if I was paying the same.

You probably know my dad seeing as you are from Maynooth.

MYOB wrote: »

I'm well aware what the overheads are (I am one... an overhead that is ), and I also know that the GMS scheme does basically underpay a doctor for how often medical card holders visit. Private only practices charge 30-35 for the same consultation usually, as they're not having to subsidise medical card patients.

I've a customer who opened his own surgery at 28 so it is entirely possible to be through and out the other side in 10 years or less.

contador2009

All this talk of doctors' fees and tangent re: hairdressers...sure twould make the hair stand on your head, it would!:)