Suckler cow crossbreeds

Indubitable

I currently have a herd of belgian blue and limousin cattle as suckler cows.
I am trying to develope cows with suitable milk and good maternity traits without a fresian/holstein influence.

To do this i was thinking of crossing simmental cows with high milk production with charolais AI sires with good maternity traits.

I would keep the heifer calves for cows and breed them with a belgian blue stock bull and sell the calves that are 25% simmental, 25% charolais and 50% belgian blue.

Would this result in a calf with a high weight?

I would like to hear your methods and improvements.
thanks

ravima

If you have mother cows of limousin/BB, then you don't need milk traits. what about crossing with Blonde Aquitaine? Long and leggy when born and really you could say they are miserable calves, but they don't be long putting on condition.

Indubitable

ravima wrote: »

If you have mother cows of limousin/BB, then you don't need milk traits. what about crossing with Blonde Aquitaine? Long and leggy when born and really you could say they are miserable calves, but they don't be long putting on condition.

My mother cows are getting old. I decided that i would start fresh.
I will look further into blonde Aquitaine. I never really took an interest into them.

leg wax

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

I currently have a herd of belgian blue and limousin cattle as suckler cows.
I am trying to develope cows with suitable milk and good maternity traits without a fresian/holstein influence.

To do this i was thinking of crossing simmental cows with high milk production with charolais AI sires with good maternity traits.

I would keep the heifer calves for cows and breed them with a belgian blue stock bull and sell the calves that are 25% simmental, 25% charolais and 50% belgian blue.

Would this result in a calf with a high weight?

I would like to hear your methods and improvements.
thanks

it all depends on what market you are aiming for with the blues.why is weight important, muscle is what blues are about. blonde as the dam is the way to go.

djmc

Salers have good milk and a big frame for easy calving might work well with b blues there are a lot of other dairy breeds I have some brown swiss, sweedish red, rotbunts,mount beleards norwegen red would all have a lot of milk and more meat than holstans

pakalasa

OP, if you were finishing on farm, then the Charolais X Simmental would definitely be the way to go. I would be careful though with Charolais as they do tend to be low in milk. It is a good idea like you say to use only the top AI Charolais for milk & fertility. Alex (CF61) for example is in the top1% for both Milk and 'Milk & Fertility'.

If it's weanlings you're selling then try for fancy ones, that means muscle and the right colour. For this it's hard to beat Belgian Blues out of Limousin cows. I hear Blonde cows produce nice ones too, but I haven't seen many so can't say for sure.

What I'm trying to do myself is go 2 generations limousin and then simmental on the cow side side of things. The simmental will stop milk slipping and will add the 3rd breed so good for hybrid vigour. I will use BB's on these then to get my weanlings. That's the plan anyway. I'm only suckling a few years so still on the Limousins & Simmentals. I have also tried easy calving Charolais like PTE & HWN. No problems so far on calving. I won't be using BB on the cow side of things as I think these cows will have more trouble calving.

Hope this helps !

leg wax

pakalasa i would have to correct you on one point, colour is not one bit important, its all about muscle

adne

leg wax wrote: »

pakalasa i would have to correct you on one point, colour is not one bit important, its all about muscle

leg wax I have to correct you on one point . Colour is Important i.e. If you Cross a Charlois with a Black Cow and get a Brown Calf, A White Charlois will always command a better price

pakalasa

adne wrote: »

leg wax I have to correct you on one point . Colour is Important i.e. If you Cross a Charlois with a Black Cow and get a Brown Calf, A White Charlois will always command a better price

Yep, I'd have to agree. Likewise, a black limousin weanling bull will command less than a red one. It shouldn't I know, but the right colour does help that little bit.

leg wax

If it's weanlings you're selling then try for fancy ones, that means muscle and the right colour. For this it's hard to beat Belgian Blues out of Limousin cows. I hear Blonde cows produce nice ones too, but I haven't seen many so can't say for sure.

pakalasa this is your point that i am refering to about blues sorry i came across wrong i was only talking about blues

Rujib1

adne wrote: »

leg wax I have to correct you on one point . Colour is Important i.e. If you Cross a Charlois with a Black Cow and get a Brown Calf, A White Charlois will always command a better price

Have gotten white charolais heifers from purebred charolais bull, crossed with charolais x shorthorn cows over past 7 years or so.
Have kept the best of them for replacements, and I have to say so far so good.
Powerfull framed cows, strong bone, enough milk (some shorthorn blood still there) and now giving me all white calves from CF52 bull.
Weanlings showing real power and frame, good soft fleece of hair and average hind qtr muscle.
Had a call from 2 guys who finished some of the my weanlings over past couple of years, to say they be happy to buy direct from me if I wanted to this year. Both say, they finish very well and on high weights!
A lot of people I meet, tend to believe charolais cows are poor on milk and hard to get in calf, but my experience is quite different.

R1

aghead

Ultimate Suckler cow

Unrivalled calving ease 97% percent unassisted compared to angus 93%, a pelvic capacity of 12% greater than any other continental breed, amoungst highiest docility figures in france. We're killing full blood saler bulls for the kk italien kepak scheme under 24 months, with over 75% u grading, between 450-520 kgs carcase weights, in fact "too heavy" for such scheme. although i'm not a fan of the said bull "rio", but search volcan FR6340864030 in icbf database and your misconceptions of saler carcase traits will be addressed.

mossfort

i was at a meeting in tuam on producing weanlings for export a while ago. a very well known stockman from the area was giving advice on choosing the right type of cow to produce quality calfs.
he advised against using saler cows because of the topline.

aghead

May i ask is the said advisor, the same linear scorer from the tuam area? Their topline? in what regard?

Granted there are a substantial number of the wrong kind of salers imported from france, they wer're imported on their milk credentials completely ignoring their conformation but hopefully this has been adressed. it is actually the latest objective of the french and irish societies,

But do you agree with the cow's suggested at the Kerry weanling demo? like the cow pictured on the front of the journal last week? She may have the colour of a charolais or a lim, but have substancial freisian blood in them which contributes nothing if not takes from the conformation of the calf, these said cows will have substancial difficulty in calving, shortening their producing ability maybe 3-4 calves? increase the cost of replacing her, possibly sections to produce these wonder weanlings, but even looking at the cow herself, she doesn't top 600kgs herself nearer to 5? so how is she going to produce a 450-500 kgs weanling in a year?? i'm aware of hybrid vigour, but blue bulls are not noted for their "weights" and the dam certainly doesn't contribute much sooo, italiens will soon cop how these small blue weanlings out of the freisan/charl/lim cross are only cop outs, look the part but are stuffed to get to that weanling stage but never progress afterwards, always a disappointment on the hook, more contential in the dam, who can actually calf the animal is required

aghead

The said "advisior" is a pedigree limmousine breeder? from the tuam area? his thoughts on salers should be taken with a pinch of salt as he's not going to push salers over limm's, he has let himself down on that score, i'd like limmi's if they did the buisness on the hook but we get paid by weight.......that they don't have. not in the same league as a charls, even with this new payment grading scheme.

The best crossbred weanling without question was on display at the ploughing this year.

Culard charloais/saler cross, even straight charl/saler is untouchable.

mossfort

aghead wrote: »

The said "advisior" is a pedigree limmousine breeder? from the tuam area? his thoughts on salers should be taken with a pinch of salt as he's not going to push salers over limm's, he has let himself down on that score, i'd like limmi's if they did the buisness on the hook but we get paid by weight.......that they don't have. not in the same league as a charls, even with this new payment grading scheme.

The best crossbred weanling without question was on display at the ploughing this year.

Culard charloais/saler cross, even straight charl/saler is untouchable.

hes not only a pedigree limousin breeder he also breeds pedigree charolais cattle as well and he was not trying to promote his own breeds.
im just telling you wht he said.

aghead

mossfort wrote: »

hes not only a pedigree limousin breeder he also breeds pedigree charolais cattle as well and he was not trying to promote his own breeds.
im just telling you wht he said.

oh i know the man, he has scored my own stock sur, both charls and salers,
i've heard and acknowledge that saler dams may be weak on "the shoulder" but not sure what the references to the "top line" are about? He didn't elaborate no? I'm not saying he's promoting his own breeds, sur charls and lims account for over half the calf registrations in the country they need no promotion, just his experience with salers is limited.

And a pedigree breeder, is not necessarily the best judge of commercial stock, as anyone can judge and animal stuffed with concentrates prep'd for a show and sale, a stock man is one who can pick the animal before and without the meal.

oh i know you're only repeating what he said, but just suprised by his claims

adne

aghead wrote: »

Ultimate Suckler cow

Unrivalled calving ease 97% percent unassisted compared to angus 93%, a pelvic capacity of 12% greater than any other continental breed, amoungst highiest docility figures in france. We're killing full blood saler bulls for the kk italien kepak scheme under 24 months, with over 75% u grading, between 450-520 kgs carcase weights, in fact "too heavy" for such scheme. although i'm not a fan of the said bull "rio", but search volcan FR6340864030 in icbf database and your misconceptions of saler carcase traits will be addressed.

are you trying to plug salers for some reason..... you have the same post of 3 threads.......:mad::mad:

Midlandsman80

Any of these the ones that you sold the other day leg?

KatyMac

adne wrote: »

leg wax I have to correct you on one point . Colour is Important i.e. If you Cross a Charlois with a Black Cow and get a Brown Calf, A White Charlois will always command a better price

Agree with this. Have a red cow that produces dirty mucky brown charolais calves. I now breed her to SIM and end up with red calves with some white on their heads. Much better lookers and I've got better prices on weanlings that were not much different in muscle/weight/

leg wax

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Any of these the ones that you sold the other day leg?

no they went at the end of may.