Time for a national maximum wage.

Akrasia

I'm getting very tired of IBEC and ISME and the right wing politicians and economists blaming minimum wages for Ireland's loss of competitiveness.

Instead of scrapping the minimum wage, we should be looking at imposing a national maximum wage on professionals, 'developers' bankers politicians etc capped at about 10 times the minimum wage (170k roughly, including all peripheral benefits, income from investments and pension contribtions) with a 100% tax on all income above this threshold.

Then we can
1. reduce rents
2. reduce health expenditure
3. reduce legal expenses (tribunals, enquiries etc)
4. reduce the costs of the oireachtas
5. reduce the costs at all the quangos and semi state companies
6. increase the income tax take
7. Most importantly, all the owners of profitable small/medium business who think they can increase their profits by reducing the wages of the lowest paid would be prevented from doing so.

Taxipete29

Maximum wages are not the answer. They do nothing to encourage investment or job creation. Terrible idea

turgon

If a company wants to give a worker a million euro per year then thats that company's prerogative and its none - I repeat none - of your business.



From your magic list of miracles you want its clear you understand economics about as much as the common man understands multi-variable differentiation. Perhaps you should become educated as to the consequences of your ideas before putting them out there.

tlev

Yes once we do that we can also take a bus ride to magic land and play with the enchanted fairy unicorns of your dreams

Its pure fantasy and won't ever happen I'm sorry to say!

turgon

Taxipete29 wrote: »

They do nothing to encourage investment or job creation.

They even do more damage than just nothing, they directly disincentive people from getting good important jobs (like flying aircraft), starting and investing in businesses and creating employment.

ei.sdraob

tlev wrote: »

Yes once we do that we can also take a bus ride to magic land and play with the enchanted fairy unicorns of your dreams

Its pure fantasy and won't ever happen I'm sorry to say!

its called socialism

look how that turned out in Cuba and USSR

tlev

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its called socialism

look how that turned out in Cuba and USSR

No I mean it won't happen in Ireland!

turgon

I was just listening to one of the videos on the OP's page, a choice quote:

"This [economic policy of welfare and wage rationalization] is promoted as a single party line by economists"

Shows where the OP stands on economics. The big bad economists eh, thinking they know something about the economy. Darn fools!

ei.sdraob

tlev wrote: »

No I mean it won't happen in Ireland!

Im afraid it already did, even in the best of times no one in above mentioned countries would get paid for doing nothing, like happens here

All hail Comrade Cowen!

:cool:

tlev

For the motherland??

ei.sdraob

on a more serious note

anymore increases in taxes or a cap (seriously only time this was attempted was in communist regimes and that never ends well)
and people would just give up

we already have stories of it being easier to stay on dole than staying at a job, with all them payments and free health care

i myself decided recently to work less, there comes a point when working 9am till 11pm is not worth the extra money that will be almost all taxed to hell

infact i spend the better part of this morning trying to find out how to setup an offshore company and where would be a nice place to move, all my business is done with companies outside of ireland... and i dont like the idea of my tax money going to bailout bankrupt banks, developers and pay the highest welfare rates in world

sigh

tlev

Yeah it would definitely lead to a brain drain in the country. Then again people like Pat Neary could do with a cap on wages....

turgon

These people like the OP dont want to hear those kind of real life stories ei.sdraob. They live in a fantasy land where the employers are useless good for nothing pigs that contribute nothing to society, while the employees are angels that are being exploited. With that kind of fantasy they always find reality a bit too ... how should I put ... real.

ei.sdraob

I think in the 90s the government did its job and made ireland very business friendly, this lead to investment and almost full employment (some people somehow managed to float thru these years on the dole), the boom ran out of steam

but then we (well yee, i managed to stay out of it) and got caught up in a construction/housing bubble

now that the bubble burst everyone is blaming anyone but themselves, tough times bring out all sorts of extreme ideas, my main worry politically and economically is going too far to the left or the right or sideways altogether as that wont help

for a good idea see the parallel thread in the other politics forum about the negative income tax system, quite interesting

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055630041

turgon

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I think in the 90s the government did its job and made ireland very business friendly, this lead to investment and almost full employment (some people somehow managed to float thru these years on the dole), the boom ran out of steam

Yes. Two points: firstly the boom was created in part by bad government policy a and our recession is made worse as a result. So secondly, if we are to get out of this I would say we must stay business friendly. Of course people like the OP will have a hugely subjective view of "business friendly" that will somehow still manage to accommodate huge tax, high spending and general enterprise disincentives.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

now that the bubble burst everyone is blaming anyone but themselves

That, in my opinion, is the single greatest factor damaging the recovery effort. House owners want to blame their buying a house and getting huge debts on the banks. Government blame the "world economy" for its own mistakes. Unions blame everyone but their members for the job losses even though they were the ones that pushed for such anti-enterprise measures. The Left blames what they see as the Right; the Right blames what they see as the Left.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

my main worry politically and economically is going too far to the left or the right or sideways altogether as that wont help

There is always that "shock doctrine" element to it. My worry is people will be shocked into believing the anti-business rhetoric spouted so freely these days by posters like the OP, and take choices that will damage us in the long run.

Its obviously hard for me to take this shock principle and equally criticize the Right; me being a proponent and all. All I would ask for is rationalism. The more extreme liberal policies I seek can wait until the recovery, in the interim all I want is to clean up the mess that was made.

Soldie

Begrudgery at its finest.

turgon

Also note how the Left, upon failing in a logical economics debate, will always fall back on slogans.

tlev

turgon wrote: »

Also note how the Left, upon failing in a logical economics debate, will always fall back on slogans.

Yes but catchy slogans like: For the people!! etc strike a chord with the disillusioned masses far better than: xxx policies are counterproductive to growth and will lead to a lower standard of living and a prolonged recession!

turgon

Very true! In fact I would say that most votes for the "Left" are driven solely by that kind of slogan drivel.

And its not like you get an explanation. I jsut got a feeling there is not point asking Soldie to explain that. His trench is about 15 feet deep at the moment, and getting deeper. You can be sure he wont be leaving there anytime soon.


And also, does anybody see the huge irony of Soldie labeling us as begrudgers when most "Left wingers" are motivated primarily by begrudging the rich?

Soldie

I was calling the original poster a begrudger. How deep is my trench now?!

silverharp

Akrasia wrote: »

I'm getting very tired of IBEC and ISME and the right wing politicians and economists blaming minimum wages for Ireland's loss of competitiveness.....

if they are saying that they are not telling the whole story. The reason Ireland has lost cometitiveness is that the gov. created artificial bottlenecks and mal investment in the economy. All businesses should be allowed set salaries so that they can adjust to local circumstances. Your earnings cap is a cop out and would not change anything.
Where you should not listen to IBEC is if they call for the gov. to continue "stimulus" spending as they want the money for their members at the expense of the general population.

Jax Teller

communism is the way forward :pac:

dsmythy

100% tax above the maximum? People are talking about a brain drain on this thread but they are wrong. It would be more of a brain fail. Our national collective smarts would collapse but then everyone would be equal i guess. (OP's whole exercise?)

TheInquisitor

Pwah...socialist thinkin from a person that i guarantee will never be an entrepreneur and will blame everyone else for their problems.

See the linked post. This is the reason the minimum wage AND the dole needs to be cut sharply

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61294714#post61294714

McCruiskeen

I would imagine that the OP's idea is also completely unconstitutional, not that the lefties ever care about such things. e.g. "All the bankers and property developers should be in chains"

Another point against this idea is that any US multinational wishing to set up a company in Ireland would not do so as any US executives seconded here would simply refuse to take a massive paycut to travel here and set up the company. Also many genuinely talented people would be off to the US and the UK ASAP as would (rightly) refuse to pay 100% of their wages in tax.

nesf

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I think in the 90s the government did its job and made ireland very business friendly, this lead to investment and almost full employment (some people somehow managed to float thru these years on the dole), the boom ran out of steam

Ish. The biggest problem was that the Government continued with the policies of the 90s into recent years when times had changed and a different approach to governance was needed. Pre-2000 FF did a relatively good job, post-2000 not so much.

dvpower

Instead of a maximum wage, how about a super tax? Say 65% on earnings over €200,000. Not too draconian but might be a quid pro quo for getting through a reduction in the minimum wage.

turgon

Soldie wrote: »

I was calling the original poster a begrudger. How deep is my trench now?!

Apologies. I jumped the gun here, as I did earlier on in this thread. Ill try to stop my prejudices getting the better of me in future.

Joey the lips

Stupid proposal. For many reasons, but it sounds like a socialsitic policy which I should be in favor of which I am not.

Economist will teach you the best solution to high costs is lots of competition!

If i spend 10 years in a field of expertise another 20 in practice it is not fair that i am on the same money as less experienced,

nesf

dvpower wrote: »

Instead of a maximum wage, how about a super tax? Say 65% on earnings over €200,000. Not too draconian but might be a quid pro quo for getting through a reduction in the minimum wage.

How is it quid pro quo? Do you think everyone employing people on the minimum wage earns over 200K a year?

Lockstep

McCruiskeen wrote: »

I would imagine that the OP's idea is also completely unconstitutional, not that the lefties ever care about such things. e.g. "All the bankers and property developers should be in chains"

I'm curious; which article in the Constituion would it be against?