Death Knight solos Halls of Lightning Heroic

Ivan

sunzz wrote: »

Im sorry magilly but

You should have done yourself a favor and stopped typing after the above.

Less of this please. People are allowed to express their opinions. Even if they might seem incorrect to you.

Xyo

So a Dk solo'd Loken did he?.. jaysus thats amazing

Ivan

Personally, I think a prot paladin in equal gear would be able to do something similar. If not now then certainly after the patch.

nix

DK's used to be face roll, now it is not the case.

After getting hit with nerfs pretty much every update since wotlk, we are now just like the rest of the classes. And our burst is getting nerfed yet again (frost strike) I really cant understand all this whining aimed at DK's, i can see myself capeable of a whole lot more with a paladin, better burst and better survivability.

And i was able to do a whole lot more in TBC with my rogue, and i predict i could do just as much in wotlk.

Seriously, learn the dk's weaknesses and your laughing

And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals. Although the whole instance is a pretty sick achievement.

sunzz

Ivan wrote: »

Less of this please. People are allowed to express their opinions. Even if they might seem incorrect to you.

In my OWN opinion he should have stopped typing as his whole post was nonsensical dribble. I fail to see how what I said was against any of the charter rules, the fact you have issues with me may have something to do with it? Just wondering why you needed to mod the above? Mussolini would be proud of you however.

WellyJ

nix wrote: »

DK's used to be face roll, now it is not the case.

After getting hit with nerfs pretty much every update since wotlk, we are now just like the rest of the classes. And our burst is getting nerfed yet again (frost strike) I really cant understand all this whining aimed at DK's, i can see myself capeable of a whole lot more with a paladin, better burst and better survivability.

And i was able to do a whole lot more in TBC with my rogue, and i predict i could do just as much in wotlk.

Seriously, learn the dk's weaknesses and your laughing

And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals. Although the whole instance is a pretty sick achievement.

Contradictions galore.

You say DKs are now just like the rest of the classes, then go onto say that soloing Loken on heroic isn't hard and that you got him to 40% etc. Are you forgetting which class you play

Have a go soloing him with a mage and see what happens.

The fact is, and the OP here is testament to it, that DKs are currently too powerful. It cannot really be disputed. Just watch the video.....

Claiming a paladin can do this also is fine but it's really just speculation. Until I see some kind of evidence that that is the case, I can only continue to assume that no class in the game could achieve this other than a DK, which is a clear kick in the teeth to the whole concept of Class Balance which Blizzard claim to hold so dearly.

Just to clarify, I have no issue with a DK being a little bit special in terms of what they can do, after all, they are a Hero Class. But there has to be some kind of limit.

sunzz

I wasn't aware mages had tanking and self healing abilities.
Id argue the original video could also be done by a competent paladin tank in much the same gear!

nix

WellyJ wrote: »

Contradictions galore.

You say DKs are now just like the rest of the classes, then go onto say that soloing Loken on heroic isn't hard and that you got him to 40% etc. Are you forgetting which class you play

Have a go soloing him with a mage and see what happens.

The fact is, and the OP here is testament to it, that DKs are currently too powerful. It cannot really be disputed. Just watch the video.....

Claiming a paladin can do this also is fine but it's really just speculation. Until I see some kind of evidence that that is the case, I can only continue to assume that no class in the game could achieve this other than a DK, which is a clear kick in the teeth to the whole concept of Class Balance which Blizzard claim to hold so dearly.

Just to clarify, I have no issue with a DK being a little bit special in terms of what they can do, after all, they are a Hero Class. But there has to be some kind of limit.

No i stand by what i said, loken doesnt hit hard, the only real damage he does is his Aoe which can be dodged. DK's have healing capeabilities, rune tap (3.5khp) and demonic sacrafice (approx 8khp). i countered his melee strikes with death strikes. Jobs a good one, i have no doubt i could achieve the same with a paladin maybe even a rogue/enhance shammy.

Now if loken actually done real damage outside his AoE i would be ****ed.

EDIT: also like to add i only got him down from around 40% after rest of party failed, didnt exactly "solo" him, 100% i would have been on CD with my heals baby ! and the help of ghoul army was nice

Dar

Like I said, the reason this is possible on Loken is because he hits like a little girl. Same thing for the big crystalline elemental golem thingy in Halls of Stone. The only real damage from either of these bosses comes from gimmick AoE abilities that can be easily dodged. Of course a plate-tank with self healing is going to be able to solo them.

Ivan

Anti wrote: »

The fact that a unskilled DK can literally macro all of their abilities to random keys on their keyboard and slap away at it like a mad yoke ignoring any type of rotation and proc and still do pretty well.


Now im not saying your like this, as your gear clearly shows you know how to play the class, but even you have to admit 90% of the 'tards play dk's these days.

You mean like BM hunters, not so long ago?

WellyJ

sunzz wrote: »

I wasn't aware mages had tanking and self healing abilities.
Id argue the original video could also be done by a competent paladin tank in much the same gear!

nix said that DKs were now on par with the other classes. He didn't mention Paladins specifically.

Either way, it's not true. Not all classes can solo HoL HC, even if a Paladin may be able to. So DKs are overpowered. There is no way it was intended by Blizzard for any class to be able to do this.

There really is no way to argue against this. Where do you draw the line if don't think that this proves they are too good? If a DK could solo Naxx 10, would that still be ok? There has to be a line somewhere.

EDIT: People also seem to be focusing on the Loken encounter. He may not hit very hard, but this guy soloed the whole instance, an instance that is widely accepted as, relatively speaking, being the toughest of all the level 80 Heroics

sunzz

Dk's have solod naxx10.

Okay when nix was talking about class balance I'm sure he wasn't talking about how blizzard overlooked the fact mages couldn't possibly be able to tank HoL heroic.:rolleyes:

Common sense people common sense
I'm not sure if I'm going to get banned for that statement, Ivan wrote me a 600 page essay for telling someone they should have stopped typing so who knows, Not that I think it warranted a 600 page essay or a warning stating next time I'm banned, apparently I broke the "this is a noob friendly environment, even tho magilly is a long time poster:rolleyes:" I was just having a giggle but sure...moving along folks.......

Welly what are you talking about now in terms of overpowered? pve/pvp
Because I can assure you in pvp dk's are not running a blood tanking spec and are not blood strike healing

paladins/priests/shamans all have utilities to remove our diseases, be it dispell/cleanse/totems, thus rendering our damage to dog****e proportions and death strike to a nothing effect, of course this happens when the people you play are not retards. When you have diseases on a target it means your next main ability for damage be it scourge strike / obliterate will do more damage. Now when these diseases get removed, which believe me they do at higher levels you have 2 options: re applying them thus using frost/unholy runes which is also the 2 runes you use for your main abilities, or you can simply strike the disease less target and do no dmg Also did i mention in pvp death strikes hits for about 1-2k at the cost of a scourge strike which hits for 4-6.

There have and always will be vids made of people doing stupidly over powered stuff, dk's are no exception, as tanks they are godlike when it comes to soloing but not so long ago so were paladins, I've seen vids of hunters kite bosses around maps for 2 hours to score kills, mages running naxx25 and soloing military wing etc etc.

WellyJ

I'm not discussing PVP in the slightest. They were ridiculous last season, they are good now - nothing more than that.

I am talking about PvE stuff, it grates me to see how many DKs have the raptor/tiger mounts from ZG for example, because they can fairly easily solo Mandokir and Thekal. Now some other classes can also do this don't get me wrong.

But seeing this HoL video just really annoys me. This coupled with Conquest emblems dropping from HC bosses is just retarded, in my opinion. Essentially there is a class in the game, who can solo his way to 2 pieces of T8.5 gear. The fact he soloed HOL would lead me to believe he could also solo most other HCs. There is something wrong with this.

I know I probably sound bitter because with my current main being a mage, these things are beyond me. I have close to the best gear available pre 3.2, but would still have no hope of grinding the Tiger/Raptor mounts and that is not right.

Things like this should not be a factor when determining which class you want to play.

Class Balance is more than just who can kick who's ass in the middle of WSG.

EDIT: Oh and I love coming up against DKs in BGs as a frost mage. I rip them apart.

nix

WellyJ wrote: »

nix said that DKs were now on par with the other classes. He didn't mention Paladins specifically.

Either way, it's not true. Not all classes can solo HoL HC, even if a Paladin may be able to. So DKs are overpowered. There is no way it was intended by Blizzard for any class to be able to do this.

There really is no way to argue against this. Where do you draw the line if don't think that this proves they are too good? If a DK could solo Naxx 10, would that still be ok? There has to be a line somewhere.

EDIT: People also seem to be focusing on the Loken encounter. He may not hit very hard, but this guy soloed the whole instance, an instance that is widely accepted as, relatively speaking, being the toughest of all the level 80 Heroics

And a warlock soloing hydross a 25man boss isnt OP ? :P

I agree that he shouldnt be able to solo a heroic, but its nothing to worry about as its not like he was gearing up as he has the best gear in game.

And what i achieved on loken is not OP imo, hes an easy boss once you know what to do., plus i only had to nuke 40% and had full CD's

Also my first post was mostly pvp related (off topic i know) stating in terms of pvp, death knights are on par with other classes.

WellyJ

nix wrote: »

And a warlock soloing hydross a 25man boss isnt OP ? :P

I agree that he shouldnt be able to solo a heroic, but its nothing to worry about as its not like he was gearing up as he has the best gear in game.

And what i achieved on loken is not OP imo, hes an easy boss once you know what to do., plus i only had to nuke 40% and had full CD's

Also my first post was mostly pvp related (off topic i know) stating in terms of pvp, death knights are on par with other classes.

Nothing to worry about? He has a clear advantage over other classes. He could farm Runed Orbs by doing this for example.

"And a warlock soloing hydross a 25man boss isnt OP" - Yes it is OP, and should never have happened either. Same with the mage using Incanter's absorption to solo a Naxx 25 wing. Note that this was hotfixed immediately though, as it is clearly too much of an advantage for one class.

nix

And im sure this will be addressed too, it wont be the DK that gets the nerf though, loken will just prob hit harder.

Or the already incoming nerfs will sort that, longer CD's etc.

Ivan

It may not be that much of an advantage now, but consider the next patch will bump up the rewards from Heroics without changing the difficulty - it will surely become an issue.

Still, I loved my mage at 60 considering I could solo some of the trash in Naxx 40 and solo aligator trash in ZG farming Bijous.

It was an awesome aspect of the class, even if it did seem somewhat overpowered looking back - it still gave a great flavour and non-traditional aspect to the class.

Oh and Warlock soloing Hydross and a mage soloing Razuvious were both hot-fixed pretty quick. Likewise, a paladin soloing Kazzak didnt last too long either.

I think these are exceptions to the debate, since they are essentially bug exploits.

][cEMAN**

Tell ya what. I'll give it a go, and shut ye's up? Sound fair enough? I went in to do it the other night and cleared the trash up to the first boss, but had to go raid.

The only problem i've ever come across soloing an instance are mobs who heal themselves. Paladins don't have many interrupts, and none against some bosses. If you get a group of 2 healers, you don't have enough burst to take them down quickly enough so that they won't heal each other.

Oh, and WellyJ, he didn't contradict himself. You're just reading into it what you want. Eg. Holy Paladin isn't the same as a prot paladin, but they're the same class. Stop nitpicking.

WellyJ

Fraps it.

And yes he did contradict himself.

"After getting hit with nerfs pretty much every update since wotlk, we are now just like the rest of the classes."

"And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals."

If this is a contradiction that what is it?

nix

WellyJ wrote: »

Contradictions galore.

You say DKs are now just like the rest of the classes, then go onto say that soloing Loken on heroic isn't hard and that you got him to 40% etc. Are you forgetting which class you play

Oh and to address this comment, from 40% to 0% not from 100% to 40%

How did i miss that, Slow me huh?

WellyJ wrote: »

Fraps it.

And yes he did contradict himself.

"After getting hit with nerfs pretty much every update since wotlk, we are now just like the rest of the classes."

"And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals."

If this is a contradiction that what is it?

Have the decency of reading my posts right please if your gonna dish out critique, ive seen other classes do the same whilst i was lying dead in wait for a wipe. a hunter and shaman spring to mind.

WellyJ

Apologies for misreading one word in your post...

And 40% or 60%, much of a muchness.

Reading this again "And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals." it still looks to me like are saying that you can easily solo Loken as a Death Knight.

So I stand by what I said. You contradicted yourself.

We are worse here than the actualy official wow forums btw, myself included. No idea why I am even bothering to continue this. I guess I'm just a stubborn asshole.

][cEMAN**

WellyJ wrote: »

Apologies for misreading one word in your post...

1 word makes all the difference. Sarcasm isn't making your point any stronger

WellyJ wrote: »

And 40% or 60%, much of a muchness.

Not really. A lot of classes have extra dmg buffs or multipliers when the target drops below 40%, 30% or 20%.

WellyJ wrote: »

Reading this again "And Loken on heroic isnt that hard, i dropped him from 40% myself before. Easily achieved, just dont **** up and get your death strikes in for the heals." it still looks to me like are saying that you can easily solo Loken as a Death Knight.

Now you're putting words in his mouth

WellyJ wrote: »

So I stand by what I said. You contradicted yourself.

I stand by what I said. You're wrong. Stop harping at the point and just accept when you're wrong.

WellyJ wrote: »

We are worse here than the actualy official wow forums btw, myself included. No idea why I am even bothering to continue this. I guess I'm just a stubborn asshole.

*nod*

WellyJ

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61352671']1 word makes all the difference. Sarcasm isn't making your point any stronger

In some cases it makes a big difference, not here though.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61352671']Not really. A lot of classes have extra dmg buffs or multipliers when the target drops below 40%, 30% or 20%.

Not relevant since DKs don't have any. Don't stray.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61352671']Now you're putting words in his mouth

How? His statement is pretty clear, and he has not tried to refute it.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61352671']I stand by what I said. You're wrong. Stop harping at the point and just accept when you're wrong.

Not wrong. He contradicted himself.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61352671']*nod*

Quite.

How is your HoL attempt coming along?

][cEMAN**

WellyJ wrote: »

In some cases it makes a big difference, not here though.

Actually that 1 word made all the difference in your 60% to 40% judgement. 40% isn't much, but 100% can be. Even a lock who knew what he was doing could get him from 40% down. Who knows, maybe more.

WellyJ wrote: »

Not relevant since DKs don't have any. Don't stray.

Taking your comment

WellyJ wrote: »

And 40% or 60%, much of a muchness.

on face value, my point still stands. So DKs don't have them, you didn't say it wasn't much of a muchness to DKs specifically.

WellyJ wrote: »

How? His statement is pretty clear, and he has not tried to refute it.

You said yourself...

WellyJ wrote: »

it still looks to me like are saying

If it was so clear you would have said "you said". See how these damn words keep tripping people up?

WellyJ wrote: »

Not wrong. He contradicted himself.

I could keep repeated why he didn't contradict himself, but I feel either way you just wouldn't get the point...

WellyJ wrote: »

How is your HoL attempt coming along?

Haven't gone back in yet. Don't worry, i'll let you know when I do.

nix

To contradict myself, would be to claim only DK's can do it. Which isnt the case, ive seen it a few times by other classes. Enhance shammy friend did it but a slighty smaller amount of hp left on loken, and a hunter just missed out on achieving it by a very low percent in hp. infact ive seen many nearly achieve it. Try it yourself if ya can, you will be surprised i bet. Unless your crap, i dont know.

Other classes can do it, and i have no doubt a pala could do it with ret or prot with the help of a HS/mana pot.

Hunters/mages/locks can sometimes kite bosses, to which melee/dk's cant, benefits all add up on the playing field.

I'll also add that i played well in the encounter, not just your average joe could probably pull it off if he wasn't on the ball. I triggered all CD's perfectly the end result prooved.

sunzz

I'm pretty sure he was talking about his class be on a level par with others concerning pvp, and the death knight soloing loken concerning pve.

So I personally don't think there's a contradiction there considering he's talking about 2 different aspects of the class.

Also just so you know dk's do have dmg multipliers when the enemy drops below a certain % I'll let you look it up though I don't want to spoil the fun.

Anti

Ivan wrote: »

You mean like BM hunters, not so long ago?

If you remember i always played MM on my hunter while you guys screamed at me to go BM But yeah, same thing really !

sunzz

I hope you're survival now

Anti

I sure am, with a MM offspec for when i get more arp

Ivan

Anti wrote: »

If you remember i always played MM on my hunter while you guys screamed at me to go BM But yeah, same thing really !

I remember you eventually caving and you laughing ecstactically about how face roll it all was by spamming the macro

At least thats how I remember it in my head, despite how reality may have differed