Ireland does not deserve any better

sickpuppy

creeper1 wrote: »

What a tool the OP is! How dare you ramble about EU subsidies! Ireland became the great country that it is down to the hard work, sweat and blood of it's people. :mad:

:mad: Your desire to rub our faces in it makes me think that you are a British national. I notice that your use of English doesn't suggest that you come from Sweden. :mad:

Despite all the problems, Ireland will emerge stronger, leaner and meaner from this recession. We have

1. Pharmaceutical Industry - High tech giants like Pfizer and Wyeth (just to name a few) manufacturing drugs to all of Europe.

2. Computer Industry - It's took a knock in recent months but the fact remains that Intel and Dell have bases here.

3. Alcohol drinks - Yes thats right the world famous black stuff Guinness is made here and sold all over the world.

That's only what I know about. :P So soon enough I will be the one laughing at you Swedes or British whatever.
- See my recent posts in "the UK is finished!!"
Bunch of poor losers! :P:)

Have we any indeginous industries at all?
Guinness owned by Diadeo all these pharmaceuticals will be off to India same with the computer companys when it suits.
Sweden makes Airplanes
designs submarines
weapons systems artillery and missile systems
designs cars Saab
Volvo
and has great porn and fantastic women and Ikea
all we are i sslaves to poxy american multinationals wheres the brains and science and engineers to actually create something irish beside butter and fukin guinness.

Purple Gorilla

Elan is Irish

nesf

creeper1 wrote: »

What a tool the OP is!

Less of the personal attacks please, attack the post not the poster.

ei.sdraob

both are welfare states

tho im not sure i would prefer to live and work in sweden, taxes are even higher

and his right Swedish blondes ftw!

irish_bob

AARRRGH wrote: »

The only thing I've learnt from this thread is that the OP is not a very nice person.

the only thing ive learned from this thread is that a lot of irish people dont like to hear the truth

MysticalRain

creeper1 wrote: »

What a tool the OP is! How dare you ramble about EU subsidies! Ireland became the great country that it is down to the hard work, sweat and blood of it's people. :mad:

:mad: Your desire to rub our faces in it makes me think that you are a British national. I notice that your use of English doesn't suggest that you come from Sweden. :mad:

Despite all the problems, Ireland will emerge stronger, leaner and meaner from this recession. We have

1. Pharmaceutical Industry - High tech giants like Pfizer and Wyeth (just to name a few) manufacturing drugs to all of Europe.

2. Computer Industry - It's took a knock in recent months but the fact remains that Intel and Dell have bases here.

3. Alcohol drinks - Yes thats right the world famous black stuff Guinness is made here and sold all over the world.

That's only what I know about. :P So soon enough I will be the one laughing at you Swedes or British whatever.
- See my recent posts in "the UK is finished!!"
Bunch of poor losers! :P:)

Not to nitpick, but most of Dell's operations have basically up and left for Poland. Intel are cutting jobs, and future investment from that company may end up being diverted elsewhere to places like Israel. Half the software development jobs we used to have got outsourced to India. In contrast with Sweden, we should have focused more on developing our own indigenous export sector rather than diverting the money towards the grand pyramid scheme we called the "property market".

DublinWriter

creeper1 wrote: »

3. Alcohol drinks - Yes thats right the world famous black stuff Guinness is made here and sold all over the world.

...by a UK plc that came within a hare's breath of turning St.James Gate into apartments two years ago.

AARRRGH

Martyr wrote: »

i have zero debt and will consider emigrating once i've lost my MNC job..as it's no doubt in the post with any increase on corpo tax all while the Public sector remains unreformed and keep their high wages.

why should people who never bought into the deception of false wealth be expected to pay for it.

Me too.

AARRRGH

irish_bob wrote: »

the only thing ive learned from this thread is that a lot of irish people dont like to hear the truth

That we should be laughed at? I don't consider that the truth.

harsea8

creeper1 wrote: »

What a tool the OP is! How dare you ramble about EU subsidies! Ireland became the great country that it is down to the hard work, sweat and blood of it's people. :mad:

:mad: Your desire to rub our faces in it makes me think that you are a British national. I notice that your use of English doesn't suggest that you come from Sweden. :mad:

Despite all the problems, Ireland will emerge stronger, leaner and meaner from this recession. We have

1. Pharmaceutical Industry - High tech giants like Pfizer and Wyeth (just to name a few) manufacturing drugs to all of Europe.

2. Computer Industry - It's took a knock in recent months but the fact remains that Intel and Dell have bases here.

3. Alcohol drinks - Yes thats right the world famous black stuff Guinness is made here and sold all over the world.

That's only what I know about. :P So soon enough I will be the one laughing at you Swedes or British whatever.
- See my recent posts in "the UK is finished!!"
Bunch of poor losers! :P:)

What a ****ing stupid post! The guys said he is from Sweden, why do you have to drag your bigoted anti-British views into a post that has no relevance to Britain

Kintarō Hattori

Not everyone spent spent spent OP. Myself and the GF looked at buying a house here two years ago but decided against it as the prices were so ludicrous. We saved our money and bought an apartment in Poland instead (the other half is Polish). We've continued to rent here and will buy when property is reasonably priced.

So I'd like if you didn't tar everyone with the same brush. Ta.

techdiver

MysticalRain wrote: »

Half the software development jobs we used to have got outsourced to India.

Where did you get this information from?? As a software developer it has been a constant struggle to recruit new people, so much so that many of the people working here are non-Irish. Nearly every developer I know is currently working. I don't know too many professions who can say that?

Ireland has massive advantages over India as regards attracting these jobs, which include the usual, English speaking, location etc. In fact many Indian developers work outside of India.

Latchy

harsea8 wrote: »

What a ****ing stupid post! The guys said he is from Sweden, why do you have to drag your bigoted anti-British views into a post that has no relevance to Britain

It's just the usual hang up about Britain ie,they are out to get us .....

djpbarry

neil_hosey wrote: »

Our education standards, in my opinion are very good.

They’re ok – Irish students rate just above average on the OECD PISA 2006 science scale. We’re way behind the likes of Finland and Estonia.

-=Shamrock=- wrote: »

Ireland has been a net contributor to the EU just after the new millenium!

That’s not true; Ireland was expected to become a net contributor around about 2013, but I think we can safely say that is not likely to happen now.

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

the only thing ive learned from this thread is that a lot of irish people dont like to hear the truth

It's rare for me to agree with irish_bob, but I agree with him on this.

tlev

Ireland is in pretty bad shape alright, the difference though between Ireland and Sweden is that Sweden did what it had to do quickly and effectively and cut away the dead wood before the rot could spread, Ireland is lingering a bit too much...

MysticalRain

techdiver wrote: »

Where did you get this information from??

I worked in software development, so I'm speaking from first-hand experience. Most of the companies I worked for had more employees and contractors working in places like India and the Ukraine than they did in Ireland. The only real future I could see was in the business side, not the tech side.

As a software developer it has been a constant struggle to recruit new people, so much so that many of the people working here are non-Irish. Nearly every developer I know is currently working. I don't know too many professions who can say that?

I keep hearing that sob story from employers all the time, yet there are so many IT graduates out of work at the moment. Of course employers seem to only want people with tons of experience, but that limits their recruiting pool and makes it difficult for people to break into the industry. IT as a career isn't as popular as it used to be, so perhaps now we are seeing net effects of employers being so particular with recruitment.

techdiver

MysticalRain wrote: »

I worked in software development, so I'm speaking from first-hand experience. Most of the companies I worked for had more employees and contractors working in places like India and the Ukraine than they did in Ireland. The only real future I could see was in the business side, not the tech side.

The fact that there were more developers in the Ukraine than Ireland in your company isn't really proof of your argument. There hasn't been a reduction of developer jobs in Ireland in the past few years.

MysticalRain wrote: »

I keep hearing that sob story from employers all the time, yet there are so many IT graduates out of work at the moment. Of course employers seem to only want people with tons of experience, but that limits their recruiting pool and makes it difficult for people to break into the industry. IT as a career isn't as popular as it used to be, so perhaps now we are seeing net effects of employers being so particular with recruitment.

I agree with you from the point of view of Junior and Grad developers. I was in that boat for some time too. It's well known that it is hard to get into, but once you are there is plenty of work out there if you are capable at the job. I know it's a kind of chicken and egg scenario for employers, but the pressure on some companies is such that they cannot afford the cost of training new graduates up especially in development, where it doesn't suit everyone.

MysticalRain

techdiver wrote: »

The fact that there were more developers in the Ukraine than Ireland in your company isn't really proof of your argument. There hasn't been a reduction of developer jobs in Ireland in the past few years.

That's not my point. The point is the Irish companies I worked for employed more foreigners working abroad, than they did Irish people. As is their right of course and great for someone living in the Ukraine or wherever. But those are jobs that in previous years would have gone to Irish people. Not that we can complain of course, because people from those countries are attracting jobs based on low cost and a highly educated workforce. Exactly what we as a nation were doing 20 years ago in order to attract outside investment.

I agree with you from the point of view of Junior and Grad developers. I was in that boat for some time too. It's well known that it is hard to get into, but once you are there is plenty of work out there if you are capable at the job. I know it's a kind of chicken and egg scenario for employers, but the pressure on some companies is such that they cannot afford the cost of training new graduates up especially in development, where it doesn't suit everyone.

It's a difficult career to get into, the hours are long, and few people are cut out for it. If you are one of the "lucky few", then naturally things look quite rosy. I perfectly understand market pressures, and understand why employers are essentially forced to cut costs in whatever ways necessary. But at the same time those obstacles scare away potential recruits, hence the reason why the leaving cert students in recent years avoided tech careers in favor of "safer" professions. The employment market works both ways as employers tend to take for granted.

the_dark_side

SLUSK wrote: »

I come from a country where the minister of finance has an earring and a pony tail.

Oh.... after reading your original post, I thought you were either a Loyal Orangeman from northern ireland, or a loyalist scot :pac:

techdiver

MysticalRain wrote: »

It's a difficult career to get into, the hours are long, and few people are cut out for it. If you are one of the "lucky few", then naturally things look quite rosy. I perfectly understand market pressures, and understand why employers are essentially forced to cut costs in whatever ways necessary. But at the same time those obstacles scare away potential recruits, hence the reason why the leaving cert students in recent years avoided tech careers in favor of "safer" professions. The employment market works both ways as employers tend to take for granted.

I agree. Students were put off choosing IT as a career in recent years, but I do believe this is not as much employers fault as it is the lack of promotion of careers in Science and Technology. There were jobs moving abroad because employers here either couldn't recruit or saw poor potential for recruitment in the future, and part of the reason for that was a lower number of graduates leaving third level with IT qualifications. The difficulty at getting into development is a factor, but to be honest most young people don't think that far ahead, I know I didn't anyway.

MysticalRain

techdiver wrote: »

I agree. Students were put off choosing IT as a career in recent years, but I do believe this is not as much employers fault as it is the lack of promotion of careers in Science and Technology. There were jobs moving abroad because employers here either couldn't recruit or saw poor potential for recruitment in the future, and part of the reason for that was a lower number of graduates leaving third level with IT qualifications. The difficulty at getting into development is a factor, but to be honest most young people don't think that far ahead, I know I didn't anyway.

To be honest, I don't think it's quite as simple as lack of promotion or lack of high quality graduates. You might have equally poor graduates in India as you do in Ireland, but if one of those costs a third of what an Irish developer costs (as I was told by a former boss), it makes rational business sense to go for the cheapest option. I might add that this all started happening during a time when there was a glut of graduates for Irish employers choose from and many of them were struggling to get jobs.

It's no different to what happened to the textile industry in Ireland 20 years ago or Waterford Crystal. It's basically what happens when an industry matures to the point where companies have to compete on cost more so than innovation.

irish_bob

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's rare for me to agree with irish_bob, but I agree with him on this.

same time next year

waryeye

"You deserver to be in the mess you are in and I can only laugh at you."??
Slusk you give Swedish people a bad name, what a lovely human being your are. Taking pleasure in other folks misfortune. Very endearing trait. Something bad must have happened you . . . along the way!

Salvelinus

irish_bob wrote: »

the only thing ive learned from this thread is that a lot of irish people dont like to hear the truth

To quote Vince Vaughan in The Wedding Crashers, Erronious, Erronious. Ireland can't be criticised. We get to criticize America.

Ibrahimovic91

sickpuppy wrote: »

Have we any indeginous industries at all?
Guinness owned by Diadeo all these pharmaceuticals will be off to India same with the computer companys when it suits.
Sweden makes Airplanes
designs submarines
weapons systems artillery and missile systems
designs cars Saab
Volvo
and has great porn and fantastic women and Ikea
all we are i sslaves to poxy american multinationals wheres the brains and science and engineers to actually create something irish beside butter and fukin guinness.

Very good post.

By the way to that guy who said 'you dont type like someone from sweden' ...eh swedish people, and definetly the young are basically bi-lingual, their english is fluent. not swedish but norwegian people on youtube use a lot of what sound like british slang terms, like 'mate' and stuff.

maninasia

techdiver wrote: »

The fact that there were more developers in the Ukraine than Ireland in your company isn't really proof of your argument. There hasn't been a reduction of developer jobs in Ireland in the past few years.




I agree with you from the point of view of Junior and Grad developers. I was in that boat for some time too. It's well known that it is hard to get into, but once you are there is plenty of work out there if you are capable at the job. I know it's a kind of chicken and egg scenario for employers, but the pressure on some companies is such that they cannot afford the cost of training new graduates up especially in development, where it doesn't suit everyone.

But what was more important, development cost/hour or the absolute quality of the employee. I would wager it was development cost/hour...the true reason for outsourcing. That is fine with me as I work in business too but you should be honest in your statements.

starbelgrade

SLUSK wrote: »

Ireland is in a real mess, for years and years it has been a net recipient of money among the EU countries, yet your infrastructure sucks ass and your education and health care is not exactly something do brag about. You have received alot of money and still you have managed to get yourself so deep into debt that it will take many years to solve this mess. You all loved getting high on easy credit, buying houses you could not afford in the first place. Then you went on a spending binge using your houses as your private atms. I do not feel sorry for you guys. You deserve to be in this mess you are in and I can only laugh at you.

Can I come stay with you? Sounds like yr well sorted.

anonymous_joe

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

Very good post.

By the way to that guy who said 'you dont type like someone from sweden' ...eh swedish people, and definetly the young are basically bi-lingual, their english is fluent. not swedish but norwegian people on youtube use a lot of what sound like british slang terms, like 'mate' and stuff.

Hmmm.

I'm not sure of the advantages of being bilingual economically when you already speak English. I mean, I'm not going to start a company in Sweden because they speak Swedish.

Ireland's never had indigenous industry outside of Belfast in reality, we do manufacture some things, like medicine, computers, etc, but like a lot of western countries, it's cheaper to do that in shítter countries. (Tongue in cheek there) When they develop, you move elsewhere.

Were wages to go down across the board Ireland might become cheaper to operate in and thus more attractive again.

techdiver

maninasia wrote: »

But what was more important, development cost/hour or the absolute quality of the employee. I would wager it was development cost/hour...the true reason for outsourcing. That is fine with me as I work in business too but you should be honest in your statements.

I'm not sure I understand your statement about me needing to be honest in my statement?? Can you elaborate? I was posting my opinion based on experience of the business. I can comment on my experience and some one else can comment on theirs. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it just means we have had different experiences.