College Green - the post mortem

bmaxi

KC61 wrote: »

All of the routes operating along North Strand and Amiens Street have bus lanes along those streets already.

Gardiner Street is only used outbound by buses.

I think you misunderstand, I was referring to buses from Abbey St and Eden Quay being affected by congestion in Beresford Place. Does the 27 no longer operate via Gardiner St?

KC61

bmaxi wrote: »

I think you misunderstand, I was referring to buses from Abbey St and Eden Quay being affected by congestion in Beresford Place. Does the 27 no longer operate via Gardiner St?

Why would Abbey Street/Eden Quay buses be affected by Beresford Place? All traffic coming along Pearse Street was already routed via Tara Street due to the bus only section of street at Pearse Street Garda Station, so there would not be that much extra traffic northbound.

The 27 uses one short section of Gardiner Street - the routes that used Gardiner Street inbound (33 and 41/B/C) all now operate via O'Connell Street.

bmaxi

KC61 wrote: »

Why would Abbey Street/Eden Quay buses be affected by Beresford Place? All traffic coming along Pearse Street was already routed via Tara Street due to the bus only section of street at Pearse Street Garda Station, so there would not be that much extra traffic northbound.

The 27 uses one short section of Gardiner Street - the routes that used Gardiner Street inbound (33 and 41/B/C) all now operate via O'Connell Street.

Yes, but if you read back through the posts you'll see that the right turning traffic from Matt Talbot bridge is affected by the closure of College Green, with more traffic trying to access the south quays. this backs up traffic around the Custom house. If traffic around the Custom House is at a standstill it surely follows that traffic from Abbey St., Eden Quay and Gardiner St. can't move. This was my perception when I passed. Is not the section of Gardiner St. used by the 27 that section which adjoins Beresford Place?

markpb

bmaxi wrote: »

Yes, but if you read back through the posts you'll see that the right turning traffic from Matt Talbot bridge is affected by the closure of College Green, with more traffic trying to access the south quays. this backs up traffic around the Custom house. If traffic around the Custom House is at a standstill it surely follows that traffic from Abbey St., Eden Quay and Gardiner St. can't move. This was my perception when I passed. Is not the section of Gardiner St. used by the 27 that section which adjoins Beresford Place?

Does any of this matter? It's only a week into the scheme. People take time to adjust and find new routes. There was always going to be initial pain but it should sort itself out over the next few weeks and hopefully not regress much when the schools re-open.

Whatever about the downside, the results speak for themselves. Transit times (for buses) through the city centre have been reduced by as much as 30 minutes. That statement can't be downplayed - it's a huge achievement and says a lot about how bad congestion in the core was before this. A 30 minute reduction across a very short stretch of road is huge.

bmaxi

markpb wrote: »

Does any of this matter? It's only a week into the scheme. People take time to adjust and find new routes. There was always going to be initial pain but it should sort itself out over the next few weeks and hopefully not regress much when the schools re-open.

Whatever about the downside, the results speak for themselves. Transit times (for buses) through the city centre have been reduced by as much as 30 minutes. That statement can't be downplayed - it's a huge achievement and says a lot about how bad congestion in the core was before this. A 30 minute reduction across a very short stretch of road is huge.

How can it be seen as a huge achievement if it has a detrimental effect elsewhere? I agree these things need time to settle down but just because what was achieved may be positive from your point of view doesn't mean it suits everybody, what's the point of debate then?

crocro

bmaxi wrote: »

How can it be seen as a huge achievement if it has a detrimental effect elsewhere?

If the benefits greatly outweigh the detrimental effect, would you see it as an achievement?

Plenty of room in the city centre for more bus lanes:
matt talbot bridge has 4 car lanes southbound, beresford place has three car lanes. Gardiner street has two car lanes southbound and a lane wasted on car parking northbound etc.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

The biggest obstacle to bus transport, congestion looks like it is going to be greatly reduced for the next few years. It really is a great opportunity.

My main reason for not using dublin buses is unpredictable arrival times. RTPI would mean I could go to a bus stop and have some idea when I was going to reach my destination.

AlekSmart

Gardiner street has two car lanes southbound and a lane wasted on car parking northbound etc.

Well said Crocro...The Gardiner St situation is particularly bad on days when O Connell St is out of action for Parades etc.
Then one can only marvel at the cloth-headedness of Dublin City Council and An Garda Siochana as they retain the full pay and display panopoly all along Gardiner St Northbound even as every damn north bound bus route in the city is then forced to squeeze through...something particularly evident at The Talbot St junction....

Gardiner Stree generally remains a vastly underutilized route which offers many and varied alternatives for Bus Routings if only the "Planners" can be torn away from the Sackville Street page.... :eek:

markpb

bmaxi wrote: »

How can it be seen as a huge achievement if it has a detrimental effect elsewhere? I agree these things need time to settle down but just because what was achieved may be positive from your point of view doesn't mean it suits everybody, what's the point of debate then?

Because, like I said in my last post, people will adjust and find new routes. Traffic will grow on the closest alternative routes and then diminish. When that happens, those affected buses should return to normal but those passing through College Green will have improved. I think it's too early to judge the impact on the city as a whole.

bmaxi

crocro wrote: »

If the benefits greatly outweigh the detrimental effect, would you see it as an achievement?

.

Certainly and when that fact is established I will. As far as I'm concerned anything that frees up traffic in the city centre is a good thing, simply moving the blockage half a mile, not so good.

serfboard

markpb wrote: »

Whatever about the downside, the results speak for themselves. Transit times (for buses) through the city centre have been reduced by as much as 30 minutes. That statement can't be downplayed - it's a huge achievement and says a lot about how bad congestion in the core was before this. A 30 minute reduction across a very short stretch of road is huge.

I went looking on the Dublin Bus Website for a press release about this. I was expecting something like:

"Dublin Bus praises introduction of Bus Gate resulting in great improvement in journey times".

Not a peep. Am I surprised? Well, OK, these state agencies may have gotten rid of their outside-contracted spinmeisters, bit surely they have an in-house press officer?

markpb

serfboard wrote: »

Not a peep. Am I surprised? Well, OK, these state agencies may have gotten rid of their outside-contracted spinmeisters, bit surely they have an in-house press officer?

They were on the RTE TV news at 6pm last Monday and I think again on Tuesday so someone in their HQ has their head switch on. The less said about that god awful website the better.

KC61

serfboard wrote: »

I went looking on the Dublin Bus Website for a press release about this. I was expecting something like:

"Dublin Bus praises introduction of Bus Gate resulting in great improvement in journey times".

Not a peep. Am I surprised? Well, OK, these state agencies may have gotten rid of their outside-contracted spinmeisters, bit surely they have an in-house press officer?

To be honest until the holiday period is over it is impossible to give a definitive view on the benefits or otherwise of the bus gate, and I would think that DB are probably right to remain silent on the subject until there has been a realistic period of operation of the project.

Better to give an informed view than give an immediate reaction that you may have to backtrack on!

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

Better to give an informed view than give an immediate reaction that you may have to backtrack on!

It's not up to DB to decide on an informed view, that's for RTE and the press agencies to decide. DB's job is to promote public transport in Dublin. They should be shouting from the roof about how successful this is, giving example times to encourage people to make the switch to buses and doing their best to counter the anti-bus-gate lobbying. Who cares if it changes in a week, they should be making hay while the sun shines.

lostexpectation

any update on carpark man's court case?

crocro

judicial review granted. next hearing 12/october

HydeRoad

Plenty of cars piling into the bus gate tonight, so all those doom mongers who bewailed the horrors of this bus gate can relax, it'll all be back to normal from this week.

Thousands of taxpayers' euro spent on big electronic signage, which will duly be ignored like every other traffic restriction in the city. The anti-everythings will prevail.

bmaxi

HydeRoad wrote: »

Plenty of cars piling into the bus gate tonight, so all those doom mongers who bewailed the horrors of this bus gate can relax, it'll all be back to normal from this week.

Thousands of taxpayers' euro spent on big electronic signage, which will duly be ignored like every other traffic restriction in the city. The anti-everythings will prevail.

Of course it would be asking too much of the Gardaí to do their job. It appears, like a lot more public servants:), they want to be paid just for showing up to work.

noelfirl

This morning and yesterday, morning and evening, I saw Gardai waiting beyond the bus gate pulling any private traffic passing through it. So a little less immediate condemnation, a little more time to see how longer they remain there doing that job, is required methinks.

Stark

Sounds like it would be a nice money spinner in itself, waiting behind the bus gate and taking €60 off every muppet who passes through.

mikemac

noelfirl wrote: »

This morning and yesterday, morning and evening, I saw Gardai waiting beyond the bus gate pulling any private traffic passing through it. .

I saw this too, 4 cars pulled over and 3 gardai walking between them giving tickets.
This was right after the bus gate.

But on the first day the gardai were in front and directing errant motorists.
Seems that now they stand behind and hand out the fines.
A new tactic

Cookie_Monster

mikemac wrote: »

But on the first day the gardai were in front and directing errant motorists.
Seems that now they stand behind and hand out the fines.
A new tactic

Surprised? NO

They should have spent a week or three infront directing traffic away and then moved to fining once it was established that it was being enforced.

Now they are just making themseles look like money grabbing wasters by deliberatly "trapping" motorists after a very short time.

techdiver

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surprised? NO

They should have spent a week or three infront directing traffic away and then moved to fining once it was established that it was being enforced.

Now they are just making themseles look like money grabbing wasters by deliberatly "trapping" motorists after a very short time.

That's crap. There is plenty of signage and has been plenty of notice given about this change. Anyone who is caught is either stupid or chancing their arm, either way they deserve the fine. If you can't see the massive signs on entry and exit to college green you shouldn't be driving.

Jip

Yesterday morning was my first day back commuting since the bus gate came into affect. Traffic was a breeze from west Dublin as far as Parnell Square and came to a shuddering halt from then on trying to get over to the southside.

I usually come down Marlborough Street to get up Abbey Street, around by the Custom House and over the bridge. I couldn't actually get onto Abbey Street as the traffic was backed up the length of it so I went straight across it and onto the quays with the intention of crossing over that way. It was no better as the queue of traffic wanting to do so was backed up as far as Butt Bridge.

So there appears to be a bad knock on affect caused by traffic turning right from Matt Talbot Bridge as highlighted by Bmaxi. The right turn lanes are congested which then prevents traffic wanting either to go straight towards Pearse Street or left onto City Quay coming from the Custom House. It wasn't too bad this morning but getting across towards City Quay was still worse than normal caused by the 2 full lanes of traffic trying to get onto the South Quays.

confused-dazed

mikemac wrote: »

I saw this too, 4 cars pulled over and 3 gardai walking between them giving tickets.
This was right after the bus gate.

there were still alot of cars making it through, there was a guard there and all she seemed to do was pull over the slower motor bikes.

mikemac wrote: »

But on the first day the gardai were in front and directing errant motorists.
Seems that now they stand behind and hand out the fines.
A new tactic

they gave all motorists a weeks grace then after that anyone going through between the bus gate hours were going to be done. from what i heard they are to be there for four weeks from the time it opened. then after that it'll be back to normal duties. then the whole college green will be back to what it was before the bus gate.T.B.H. they made a right mess of it. it should've been 7am-7pm.nothing goes past fleet street/ d'olier street junction except public transport, put the cameras similar to the barrier free toll up and anyone that goes through is sent an automatic fine. the only way the present system is going to work is have the guards baby sitting the damn thing for life.

Cookie_Monster

confused-dazed wrote: »

it should've been 7am-7pm.nothing goes past fleet street/ d'olier street junction except public transport, put the cameras similar to the barrier free toll up and anyone that goes through is sent an automatic fine. the only way the present system is going to work is have the guards baby sitting the damn thing for life.

Thats a much better option.

Is there any kind of allowance for deliveries or access at the moment?

confused-dazed

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is there any kind of allowance for deliveries or access at the moment?

for the current bus gate? NO. i saw a securicor truck being turned at the taxi rank in college green last week so i they cant through what hope do any delivery vehicles have. nothing gets in or out except for the big three. bicycles, taxi's and buses.
fleet street between west st and d'olier st has always been buses and access only. that means taxi's are excluded from this street as well. the guards did let a skip truck down this last week, but i suppose the truck driver. had some battle convincing the guards it was for the site there.

bmaxi

noelfirl wrote: »

This morning and yesterday, morning and evening, I saw Gardai waiting beyond the bus gate pulling any private traffic passing through it. So a little less immediate condemnation, a little more time to see how longer they remain there doing that job, is required methinks.

I'm not critical for no reason. I give it another month and it'll go the way of bus lanes, bus stops, double yellow lines, clearways etc. etc.
Although to be fair to the Gardaí, if it wasn't for the half dozen or so who regularly hold up the walls, the GPO and Bank of Ireland, two of the capitals most historic edifices, might have crumbled to the ground years ago.

D'Peoples Voice

mikemac wrote: »

Seems that now they stand behind and hand out the fines.

thanks be to god, with a budget deficit looking like it will hit EUR23 BILLION this year, increasing the amount of fines is the only way we have of financing road development for the next few years.

MOH

HydeRoad wrote: »

Thousands of taxpayers' euro spent on big electronic signage, which will duly be ignored like every other traffic restriction in the city. The anti-everythings will prevail.

techdiver wrote: »

That's crap. There is plenty of signage and has been plenty of notice given about this change.

Went through it for the first time last weekend in a taxi. The only signs I saw in relation to it were one halfway up D'Olier St and one at the fork on College St. Both of which are a bit late if you're driving.

Amiens St inbound (or even on the north end of Matt Talbot bridge), O'Connell St southbound - they're the places you need to tell drivers so they can take an alternate route, not when they're practically at the bus gate.

monument

MOH wrote: »

Went through it for the first time last weekend in a taxi. The only signs I saw in relation to it were one halfway up D'Olier St and one at the fork on College St. Both of which are a bit late if you're driving

It's not active on the weekend.

And both of those points allow uninformed drives to turn around.

As for being uninformed -- it was advertised on the electronic information signs around the city for weeks before, traffic alerts have still been mentions it this week, there were a load of newspaper articles and radio segments mentioning it.

MOH wrote: »

Amiens St inbound (or even on the north end of Matt Talbot bridge), O'Connell St southbound - they're the places you need to tell drivers so they can take an alternate route, not when they're practically at the bus gate.

Amiens St is a bit far away. Matt Talbot bridge may be a good place to have one.

But at O'Connell St southbound, there's really nowhere to divert to until you're across the river. Or at least nowhere that would make much of a difference.