West Ham Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2024/25

Justin Credible Darts

moyes is Just your average steve bruce type of manager....turns up at a club trying to avoid relegation hoping and praying for a top 8 finish.
He is fine for that, he is not bad, but aint great either, a run of the mill defensive minded manager, nothing more nothing less

THE STATS BACK THIS UP, Almost a thousand games and a win record of around 42 per cent.
Zero trophies, too defensive and nothing special about him.

Here is the thing, I dont blame him personally since I never expected to see west ham in the CL under him, as he is not good enough to get that to happen, again this has been proven right.

Ask yourselves this, is simply avoiding relegation deemed as "Success".
What constitutes success for the hammers, a Europa league spot ?
I am happy with a euopa league spot if it happens, but you have to think ahead. What is expected next year based on this years form ?


West Ham (covid aside) will be one of the biggest clubs in England in terms of attendance, if the club are to be a big club they need to spend big, think big, and hire managers with more pedigree than moyes,
Moyes only foray with a big club in utd ended in failure....again these are all facts.

Justin Credible Darts

Hammer Archer wrote: »

A question for you that I hope you'll answer: Do you think Moyes should be replaced? If so, with who? And what does Moyes need to achieve for you to think he's done well. Presumably ending up where we are now or possibly higher isn't enough going by your recent posts.

As I said earlier moyes is a fine manager if you are trying to avoid relegation, but if a club has intentions of chasing a top 4 spot, moyes is not the guy.


Moyes getting a club into the Europa League is his level at best., Maybe it the many years of being disappointed as a hammers I knew the CL was a step too far, and a europa spot is a deserving spot for the year overall.


so the question should be, is he the manager to make the team a top 4 team ? I dont think so,

Is aiming for a top 4 spot a pipe dream ? Maybe, but the club has the ability and fanbase and stadium that being a top 4 is not out of the realm of possibility.


I remember watching chelsea at home to ipswich in the 80s where they were getting gates less than 10k, and west ham were the bigger team.
Why cannot west Ham with their huge fanbase be doing better ?
Are the board to small minded in hiring the like of moyes...in my opinion Yes.

Hammer Archer

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

moyes is Just your average steve bruce type of manager....turns up at a club trying to avoid relegation hoping and praying for a top 8 finish.
He is fine for that, he is not bad, but aint great either, a run of the mill defensive minded manager, nothing more nothing less

THE STATS BACK THIS UP, Almost a thousand games and a win record of around 42 per cent.
Zero trophies, too defensive and nothing special about him.

Very dishonest, Justin.
Apart from Moyes' first job at Preston, where he did exceptionally well by bringing them from near the bottom of division 2 to the division 1 playoff final, every game he's managed has been at the top level. Steve Bruce has managed Sheffield Utd, Huddersfield, Palace, Birmingham, Hull, Villa and Sheffield Wednesday in the second (and briefly third) tier, obviously padding out the win percentage.
In the Premier League, Bruce's win percentage is 28%. Moyes' is 39%. PPG, Bruce is 1.12, Moyes is 1.44. Bruce's highest ever league finish is 10th. Moyes' highest is 4th and he has finished higher than 10th in 11 of the 14 PL seasons where he's started the season as manager. To intimate that Bruce and Moyes are similar is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And our previous manager is a Premier League and League Cup winner. How did he do again?

Here is the thing, I dont blame him personally since I never expected to see west ham in the CL under him, as he is not good enough to get that to happen, again this has been proven right.

Ask yourselves this, is simply avoiding relegation deemed as "Success".
What constitutes success for the hammers, a Europa league spot ?
I am happy with a euopa league spot if it happens, but you have to think ahead. What is expected next year based on this years form ?

West Ham (covid aside) will be one of the biggest clubs in England in terms of attendance, if the club are to be a big club they need to spend big, think big, and hire managers with more pedigree than moyes,
Moyes only foray with a big club in utd ended in failure....again these are all facts.

Seriously, how on earth are your expectations so high???? You're acting like you're Nostradamus by saying you never thought he'd get us into the top 4, as if we were all predicting it at the start of the season. Twice, Moyes has come in mid-season and gotten us out of relegation trouble. When a manager comes in like that, then avoiding relegation is definitely a success. And I would class challenging for Europe in his first full season as manager as a success as well.

You say we should "spend big" and hire managers with more pedigree. Again, I point to Pellegrini! A PL winner and with over £150 million behind him and he left us in 18th which required Moyes to bail us out! It's no guarantee for success.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

As I said earlier moyes is a fine manager if you are trying to avoid relegation, but if a club has intentions of chasing a top 4 spot, moyes is not the guy.


Moyes getting a club into the Europa League is his level at best., Maybe it the many years of being disappointed as a hammers I knew the CL was a step too far, and a europa spot is a deserving spot for the year overall.


so the question should be, is he the manager to make the team a top 4 team ? I dont think so,

Is aiming for a top 4 spot a pipe dream ? Maybe, but the club has the ability and fanbase and stadium that being a top 4 is not out of the realm of possibility.


I remember watching chelsea at home to ipswich in the 80s where they were getting gates less than 10k, and west ham were the bigger team.
Why cannot west Ham with their huge fanbase be doing better ?
Are the board to small minded in hiring the like of moyes...in my opinion Yes.

So from reading that, the only way that Moyes would be a success to you is to make top 4? For someone who has obviously seen us relegated numerous times and seen us finish in the bottom half of the top tier more often than not, you have a set the bar remarkably high. For me, this season has been an unqualified success. If we can make some decent signings in the summer and consolidate our position in the top half, I'd be even happier.

You haven't said who you'd like him to be replaced by. What manager could take this team to top 4 having spent 7 of the last 8 seasons finishing in 10th or lower?
You're comparing us to Chelsea now? Are you completely unaware of the billionaire Russian oligarch that took over Chelsea 20 years ago or so? I think that may have had something to do with their success.

pjmn

Interesting debate lads - have to say as a 50+ year supporter I'm with HA on this one...

Moyes isn't Einstein, but he's moulded us in to a team that are competitive and there appears to be a great squad spirit among the players which again is a positive. After the Newcastle defeat on day 1 did I think we'd be where we are, the honest answer is no - the real key now is to add a couple of key a acquisitions to the squad and retain the key ones that we have... and then see where we go from there...

Justin Credible Darts

pjmn wrote: »

Interesting debate lads - have to say as a 50+ year supporter I'm with HA on this one...

Moyes isn't Einstein, but he's moulded us in to a team that are competitive and there appears to be a great squad spirit among the players which again is a positive. After the Newcastle defeat on day 1 did I think we'd be where we are, the honest answer is no - the real key now is to add a couple of key a acquisitions to the squad and retain the key ones that we have... and then see where we go from there...

I think moyes is a fine manager in the survival sense.
a type of manager that would have possibly suited a team like fulham this season for example.


What is west hams expectations for next season ?
Will hammers fan be happy to just avoid relegation, will they be happy with another top 8 finish ?




Is it wrong to think West Ham can improve ?
Is it naive to think West ham cannot be a top club with their fan base , stadium, and atendances which will be around 60k
I do not think moyes and his defensive attitude is the manager for West ham to be a top team.


Would Liverpool, Man city etc hire a Moyes if he were available ? Of course not.

pjmn

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I think moyes is a fine manager in the survival sense.
a type of manager that would have possibly suited a team like fulham this season for example.


What is west hams expectations for next season ?
Will hammers fan be happy to just avoid relegation, will they be happy with another top 8 finish ?




Is it wrong to think West Ham can improve ?
Is it naive to think West ham cannot be a top club with their fan base , stadium, and atendances which will be around 60k
I do not think moyes and his defensive attitude is the manager for West ham to be a top team.


Would Liverpool, Man city etc hire a Moyes if he were available ? Of course not.

a) Fulham got relegated, we are in contention for a European place - so not sure you've got a valid point there...
b) Given my first reply, you'll see I'd want us to improve on this year...
c) Nah, don't think Liverpool or Man City would go for Moyes...
d) Not going to keep replying, so have any dig you like in the knowledge that I won't dig back...

Jelle1880

'Another top 8 finish' ?

We've finished higher than 8th literally once in the last 20 years or so

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

'Another top 8 finish' ?

We've finished higher than 8th literally once in the last 20 years or so

does that not only prove my point how a club like west ham have been piss poor ?
does that not show how low they set the agenda hiring people like moyes


Moyes is grand if avoiding relegation every year is your idea of success , but as said, with a stadium that can hold 60k, the club should be looking beyond just hoping to avoid relegation....and a stadium they are renting on the cheap also.


Why can't they challenge the top teams , if leicester can do it, why cant West ham....is it because the board won't think big, as in sod the fans, moyes will do them, they will be happy with a scabby europa league.

moyes is too defensive minded and lacks the quality to take west ham to the next level....his career stats show that.

Jelle1880

I'm now convinced you've not seen a single West Ham game this season.

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm now convinced you've not seen a single West Ham game this season.

then that shows you have no idea then.


Are you telling me Moyes is not a defensive minded manager ?
It seems you are the one not watching the games.

Jelle1880

You seem to mistake disciplined with defensive, but that's on you.

So far we've scored 56 goals in the league, we've only ever scored more in the Premier League once and that was 60 when we had Payet.
You're having an absolute nightmare in this thread.

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You seem to mistake disciplined with defensive, but that's on you.

So far we've scored 56 goals in the league, we've only ever scored more in the Premier League once and that was 60 when we had Payet.
You're having an absolute nightmare in this thread.

so what if they scored 56, did you forget they conceded more than any other team around them ?
Hence their poor goal difference in comparison to others.


theyscored 3 against arsenal and thanks to moyes defensive play, they were lucky to get a point.....did this go over your head ?





No true top club will ever hire moyes if he left west ham, top teams seek quality proven managers capable of winning trophies, and thats not moyes, and no amount of spin and deflection by you will change that.


Then maybe reaching a possible europa league spot is what you consider successful, but if Leicester can win a pl and an FA cup, why cannot west ham strive to do similar ?


Are you really surprised the hammers blew their CL chances under moyes ?

Jelle1880

The way you go on about 'they' or 'the hammers', are you actually a West Ham fan ?

Also the way you go on about top clubs... Do you genuinely think West Ham could be one just because of a big stadium ? I think you need to read up on the club a little bit... :pac:

Hammer Archer

WE ARE NOT A TOP TEAM!

If I remember correctly, we made enquiries about Klopp after he left Dortmund but before he went to Liverpool and we were basically laughed at!
You still haven't mentioned any realistic managerial options who would be able to lead us to the top 4 spot/trophies you seem to think we're capable of.

Jelle1880

Hammer Archer wrote: »

WE ARE NOT A TOP TEAM!

If I remember correctly, we made enquiries about Klopp after he left Dortmund but before he went to Liverpool and we were basically laughed at!
You still haven't mentioned any realistic managerial options who would be able to lead us to the top 4 spot/trophies you seem to think we're capable of.

Well it's easy, the board just need to pay tens of millions to a top manager.
I can't believe they haven't thought of that.

Hammer Archer

Anyway, the argument is going around in circles.

Rumours doing the rounds (again) that Arnautovic may be on his way back to us.

Captain Havoc

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Anyway, the argument is going around in circles.

Rumours doing the rounds (again) that Arnautovic may be on his way back to us.

I'd rather he didn't

Justin Credible Darts

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I'd rather he didn't

he failed elsewhere, ah shur i just can go back to the hammers.


moyes fails,. goes elsewhere, fails again goes back to the hammers. There is a pattern here.



I know West ham are not a top team , and here is the thing, never will be unless they change things.
Dont get me wrong, this season a europa spot will be welcomed, but i want to see the hammers who will be one of the biggest supported clubs, with small overheads in comparison to other clubs take strides forward/
Would love them to do what Leicester did.....hold on to talent, think big, move on etc, not go back to people from the past.

The real mccoy 91

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Anyway, the argument is going around in circles.

Rumours doing the rounds (again) that Arnautovic may be on his way back to us.

Yeah a few sources saying he is still quite well thought of around the place and hes willing to take a pay cut.


Wouldnt touch him with a barge pole. 2 years playing pub league football hes 32 now and he showed what he thought of the club the first time around. **** him

Justin Credible Darts

one of my wallpapers

https://www.imagevenue.com/ME13CJY8

Ludo

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

one of my wallpapers

https://www.imagevenue.com/ME13CJY8

Disappointing....was REALLY expecting a Moyes Out pic there :-)

Justin Credible Darts

Ludo wrote: »

Disappointing....was REALLY expecting a Moyes Out pic there :-)

why ? so you could moan again for me having the audacity to dislike a defensive manager ?

Hammer Archer

Benrahma in for Bowen is the only change.
A win today would all but guarantee us European football of some sort.

Jelle1880

Well, another record broken so far... Earliest penalty miss in PL history.

Jelle1880

Ogbonna

Justin Credible Darts

it was coming, but they are always capable of conceding.

Ludo

Aaaaannnddd breathe

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

thats 45 PL goals for him, still in third place as hammers all time pl scorers.


one behind Noble, and 2 behind Di Canio

make that 46......level with noble...one behind di Canio

Jelle1880

All over! 1 point should be enough to guarantee Europa League now.

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

All over! 1 point should be enough to guarantee Europa League now.

Everton are 7 behind on GD so they would need the hammers to lose by a least 2 and everton need to win by 5

Jelle1880

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Everton are 7 behind on GD so they would need the hammers to lose by a least 2 and everton need to win by 5

Spurs are 3 points behind and have a vastly superior GD than us.

I don't give a **** about the Conference League, I want Europa League.

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Spurs are 3 points behind and have a vastly superior GD than us.

I don't give a **** about the Conference League, I want Europa League.

I will explain it again so even you can grasp it.
top 7 go into europe
west ham are 6th....still with me ?

If west ham lose and spurs win, west ham go 7th......still with me ?
Everton , even if they win need to over turn the 7 goal deficit.

Jelle1880

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I will explain it again so even you can grasp it.
top 7 go into europe
west ham are 6th....still with me ?

If west ham lose and spurs win, west ham go 7th......still with me ?
Everton , even if they win need to over turn the 7 goal deficit.

It's always funny when you see someone who still gets it wrong in their arrogance.

7th means Conference League, not Europa League. I don't care about Conference League, it's useless.
So if West Ham lose next week and Spurs (Everton aren't involved in this discussion) win they come next to us on the same points but they have a much better goal difference. Hence we'd drop to... 7th.

And if you don't believe me let's see what the BBC and Sky say about it:

BBC:

Victory means West Ham are sixth, three points ahead of Tottenham and Everton heading into the final round of games.

The Hammers host Southampton in their Premier League finale on Sunday while Tottenham are at fifth-placed Leicester and Everton travel to champions Manchester City.

A Europa League group stage place will go to the teams who finish fifth and sixth, while the side finishing seventh go into the play-off round for the new Europa Conference League.

Sky:

Victory sees the Hammers move up into sixth, three points ahead of Tottenham and Everton with just one game left to play. They play Southampton on the final day on Sunday and a point would see them secure European football for the first time since 2016.

Maybe you'd believe it if it came directly from the club website ?

10.12pm: That win means we are sixth, three points ahead of Spurs and Everton with one game to play, in front of 10,000 fans at home to Southampton on Sunday at London Stadium.
A point will guarantee us a UEFA Europa League group stage place.
Spurs are away to Leicester, who need a win to have a realistic chance of finishing in the top four.
If we lose, we could finish seventh and go into the UEFA Conference League if Spurs win.
We'd need to lose, Everton win at Manchester City and a nine-goal swing to finish outside the European places.
Oh, and we will definitely finish above Arsenal...

Still with me ? :rolleyes:

me89

From a relegation battle to one point of European group stage football.

Massive credit to Moyes, great turnaround.

Hammer Archer

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Spurs are 3 points behind and have a vastly superior GD than us.

I don't give a **** about the Conference League, I want Europa League.

Astra Giurgiu are in the Romanian Cup final and would qualify for the Conference League if they won. We all know what would happen if we finished 7th.

Jelle1880

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Astra Giurgiu are in the Romanian Cup final and would qualify for the Conference League if they won. We all know what would happen if we finished 7th.

Yep. And they got relegated today, in case you thought the embarrassment of them knocking us out wouldn't be big enough :pac:

The White Feather

Phew! Glad to get over the line! (and glad Soucek wasn't over the line! :pac: )

Not a great performance but at this stage it is all about results. The genius plan of having Lingard playing poorly in the last few games to lower his price in the summer is working......:cool:

We just need a point at home to Southampton now! Come on you Irons!

I laughed out loud when I heard Fat Sam has stepped down already. I knew he wouldn't want to be in the Championship.

But tonight has been fantastic. Spurs losing was amazing and really unexpected to me anyway.

Now we just need a point!! Great to have interest in the last game and not worried about relegation. It is in our own hands too which is great!

Come on you Irons!!!

munster87

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Still with me ? :rolleyes:

Oh dear!

Jelle1880

munster87 wrote: »

Oh dear!

The White Feather

Come on lads, don't mind the gotchas, lets all celebrate!!

I was the first to say I thought we would go down under Moyes so I got myself there.

"Spurs have to go to Leicester and get something" *Kevin Keegan voice* :pac:

What a rollercoaster season this has been. One last game to top it off!

Hopefully Fab recovers (tho Randolph played okay)
Being at home will be a great boost I think. You could see how it helped West Brom tonight.
I am still buzzing!!

Justin Credible Darts

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's always funny when you see someone who still gets it wrong in their arrogance.

7th means Conference League, not Europa League. I don't care about Conference League, it's useless.
So if West Ham lose next week and Spurs (Everton aren't involved in this discussion) win they come next to us on the same points but they have a much better goal difference. Hence we'd drop to... 7th.

And if you don't believe me let's see what the BBC and Sky say about it:

BBC:



Sky:



Maybe you'd believe it if it came directly from the club website ?



Still with me ? :rolleyes:

And ?


I already said if west ham lose They will drop to 7th.
go back and check.


They will still qualify for europe, again that is a fact.
The comms on astra sports i watched it on said they were in europe and Everton had to overhaul a 7 goal deficit.


Which part of my post was actually wrong ? What did i say that was factually incorrect ?
In your own time ?

Jelle1880

https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1395352572299460610

:pac: :pac: :pac:

Jelle1880

Telegraph reporting Moyes is close to a three year deal.

Someone's gonna be angry :pac:

Justin Credible Darts

Hardly a surprise

He is cheap, a europa league will keep the fans happy, they aint use to much.
Moyes might even get them in it next year too.....but he will never get them any higher, he is not good enough, but he suits the board, he is cheap and no top club will ever want him.
Liverpool,. Utd, City, even Leicester who are now a bigger club than the hammers would not hire him, he is a mid to upper table manager, that is his limit and that is fine if that is your expectations as a club.

cdgalwegian

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Hardly a surprise

He is cheap, a europa league will keep the fans happy, they aint use to much.
Moyes might even get them in it next year too.....but he will never get them any higher, he is not good enough, but he suits the board, he is cheap and no top club will ever want him.
Liverpool,. Utd, City, even Leicester who are now a bigger club than the hammers would not hire him, he is a mid to upper table manager, that is his limit and that is fine if that is your expectations as a club.

He's a solid, but uninspirational manager. He's proven that a decent team can be made much better when a manager can instill discipline with keeping shape and giving a 100%, and he's proven being canny in bringing in players who fit that mould. We also need time to build up the squad, coz we don't have enough talent on the bench to sustain a European jaunt;, and this year was an anomaly where injuries weren't the worst in the league. The "Covid season" threw up a lot of anomalies that benefitted us, so a return to normality of a sort will rob of us that didvidend. So maybe 2 yeas to be actually ready for a step up, to be properly ready to be top 4, but more likely 3. Then we need a non-Moyes manager to meet the challenge for a top 4.
So I think a 3-year deal for Moyes- at this moment- is a safe choice for those sick of relegation worries, and know we're not ready for Europe realistically. Well done to Moyes for getting us in to the Europa league: no way did anyone expect that, but this Europa spot will show we only have potential, and need time to be ready for a real push with a manager more suited to top 4 level. I think Moyes has proven that he is the man to get us Europe ready before he's replaced, so this deal looks like common sense. And ya never know, he may surprise us further.

Justin Credible Darts

As I said earlier in the thread, had he managed some team like fulham he might have kept them up, he is solid in that regard, but that is his level, his near 1000 games as a manager shows that,

He is not the manager to take a club to the next step, but seems west ham board are content to have him as he is both cheap and solid, but if West Ham are to push on and do what lesser supported clubs like leicester can do, hey board need more ambition, and moyes wont provide that as he is too defensive, and the board to mean.

Is it wrong to want to build or expect the club to be a top team when they have every resource available to be one ?

greendom

Surprised at the lack of enthusiasm for Moyes. Not a hammers fan but from the outside he has done brilliantly

Shedite27

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

As I said earlier in the thread, had he managed some team like fulham he might have kept them up, he is solid in that regard, but that is his level, his near 1000 games as a manager shows that,

I know your thoughts on Moyes, but his record suggests he's right about his level right now. In 15 seasons as a Premier League manager, he's finished between 4th and 8th, 11 times....
4th
5th twice
6th three times
7th four times
8th

4 times he's finished bottom half, two of those he took over midway through a season to keep a team up.

Shedite27

greendom wrote: »

Surprised at the lack of enthusiasm for Moyes. Not a hammers fan but from the outside he has done brilliantly

I think it's one poster. Most WH fans very happy that he's being offered a 3 year deal

Justin Credible Darts

Shedite27 wrote: »

I know your thoughts on Moyes, but his record suggests he's right about his level right now. In 15 seasons as a Premier League manager, he's finished between 4th and 8th, 11 times....
4th
5th twice
6th three times
7th four times
8th

4 times he's finished bottom half, two of those he took over midway through a season to keep a team up.

is that not what i have always said, that is his limit. ??
again the fact remains he would never be hired by the big clubs because he is not a top elite manager, never was and never will be.


My argument is and always has been he is to defensive, his decisions against united, chelsea, everton etc all ended in defeats, he defended from 3-0 up at arsenal and lost 2 huge point there as well


Its great we are in europe, but what exactly is deemed actual success next season ?

Another 6th of 7th spot. ?

would finishing 6th or 7th for the next 3 years be classed as success ?


Would a team like leicester finishing 7th next year be success for them ? no because they have set higher objectives, and if they can do it so can west ham.
Does anyone really believe Leicester were a bigger club than West ham a few years ago, cos they are now.