Sand Arena

Wicked

I'm going to put in a cost effective sand arena. my neighbour put one in in the past two days,

the site i've picked is always dry, it never gets wet, even in these bad times so heres my plan

dig out the site, fill with large stone for some drainage, cover in sand (that i'll get for very low cost as uncle has sandpit)

now what do ye think, am i being a cheap skate or is it a good idea?

Wicked

I'd be wary - I mean a low cost sand arena will still be expensive, and drainage is key to the sucess of it.

Just be careful you don't end up stuck with a damp patch in the field that cost you a bit but you never use.

Wicked

well say i put large stone then small stone then sand is that enough drainage?

You might want to ask over in the Construction forum.

However, I would imagine a drainage system with pipes would be required for fast drainage. But I really don't know.

ecaf

Definitely get more advise about drainage. A friend had this done, large stone, small stone and also some sort of black sheet - I forget the name for it, but there are still problems with drainage in parts of it, and they have to rake it often, in the wet weather it is sort of sloppy.

If you don't get the right advice 1st time around you'll end up spending more money in the long run trying to fix up mistakes you've made.

byhookorbycrook

the surface we use is sand and mixed rubber, it's actually recycled old tyres.I'd get professional opinion, as already stated it will cost you a lot if it is wrong.

Poor Uncle Tom

Generally for large areas of drainage as required for sand arenas I advise to remove all organic top soil down to a loadbearing sub soil. The clean hard ground is then itself set with falls (the individual site will dictate the drainage directions). A system of drainage trenches is then dug, pead, piped and filled. The area is usually filled with 200 - 300mm of 100mm down hardcore, lightly blinded and rolled. The area is then covered in semi permeable therm and then the washed sand.

Although this is a general overview, each individual site should be designed to its own charactaristics.

Carlow52

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Generally for large areas of drainage as required for sand arenas I advise to remove all organic top soil down to a loadbearing sub soil. The clean hard ground is then itself set with falls (the individual site will dictate the drainage directions). A system of drainage trenches is then dug, pead, piped and filled. The area is usually filled with 200 - 300mm of 100mm down hardcore, lightly blinded and rolled. The area is then covered in semi permeable therm and then the washed sand.

Although this is a general overview, each individual site should be designed to its own charactaristics.

This encapsulates the 3 key elements
proper drainage, correct materials, careful workmanship

If u cant get the water to flow out via gravity then consider putting in a deep sump with a submersible pump c/w float switch.
Remember that the hole will not just collect the water that falls on the correct sand covering, not some cheep crap from a sand pit, but also will drain the surrounding land and will in effect drop the water table so proper drainage is critical

Wicked

when i remove the top soil all i have is sand. its just all sand the whole way down. this is why i don't know if i need all the necessary drainage.

my uncles sand pit is opposite my house and his sand is used on sand arena's, gallops and golf courses along with loads others.

so what you are advising is that i dig up the sand that is already there, fill it with pebble/stone etc and then put the sand back on top of it?

Borderfox

Be careful also as there are new guidlines which control how run off water is discharged into surrounding streams

Wicked

Wicked wrote: »

when i remove the top soil all i have is sand. its just all sand the whole way down. this is why i don't know if i need all the necessary drainage.

my uncles sand pit is opposite my house and his sand is used on sand arena's, gallops and golf courses along with loads others.

so what you are advising is that i dig up the sand that is already there, fill it with pebble/stone etc and then put the sand back on top of it?

I may be wrong here but I'm guessing its something to do with the fact that you want the water to drain through the sand, and then run off elsewhere.

If you just have a very deep set of sand, say on top of rock or something, then the water will be held by the sand and drain of slowly, and in winter the sand will just get water logged. I think the advantage of the sand on stone + pipe approach is that the water drains through the sand, hits the stones and then runs off through the pipes or over the stones. Key point being that the water exits the sand.. however I'll wait for an engineer to correct me!

Poor Uncle Tom

Wicked wrote: »

when i remove the top soil all i have is sand. its just all sand the whole way down. this is why i don't know if i need all the necessary drainage.

my uncles sand pit is opposite my house and his sand is used on sand arena's, gallops and golf courses along with loads others.

so what you are advising is that i dig up the sand that is already there, fill it with pebble/stone etc and then put the sand back on top of it?

Any amount of sand as a base does not provide a loadbearing surface. Your ground conditions are not typical and you should have them inspected by an Engineer/AT to advise as to how to proceed. Just remember that by removing the top soil and exposing the sand to the elements over time you could get anything from a dust bowl to quicksand.

Theponylady

It's only "cost effective" if it works year round.

If you put down large stone, you are going to want to dig out the dirt below, otherwise everything will eventually sink down and mix with the dirt. if you dig out the dirt, you are going to change the drainage. You will need to make sure the water has somewhere to go, so pipes or making sure the ground is NOT perfectly level, but has a very slight slope to run the water off somewhere(you may end up having to dig a small ditch to make sure the water goes where you want).

You will want to put smaller stone over the bigger stone, and then sand that will pack down to be your base. You will need to water and pack the sand and let it sit for a few weeks, then put the sand you want to use as your riding surface on top of that. You will need to make sure you don't allow the surface sand to get ridden through(such as on the rail where you would consistently be riding and where you would tend to make a ditch) to where you are riding on the base, so there will be some maintenance needed. But the maintenance will be mainly filling in the ditch on the rail now and again before you get down to the base, and adding sand every few years when the surface sand gets thin.

If you just dump sand on top of your stone, without creating a base, you will constantly be having stone coming up through the sand, and the arena footing will tend to get very uneven, with areas that will hold water and turn into mudholes.

You don't actually want the base to be completely level either. You want it to be a bit higher in the middle, with a very slight slope to the outside of the arena, to allow the water to drain off evenly(not all down to one end). The center of the arena tends to sink down, and dirt from the ditch that is normally created from regular riding tends to make a slight ridge that keeps the water from draining off. So if you have the center higher than the outside, and you regularly fill and maintain the ditch, rainwater will just run off, and not pool and cause problems. You need a good tractor guy to shape the arena base, someone who really knows what they are doing.

needadvice

Go ahead you'll be fine you're not supplying a surface for clients just personal use and it will more than likely work

needadvice

However just so I'm honest mine is tons of stone membranes pipes sand fibre and very expensive but I have seen your plan do the trick.

weatherford

Mine is an old sand pit - all I did was have it leveled and graded - no additional sand added; existing sand was used for the leveling.

It's about 200 x 200 - and I made natural banks for jumping along the sides, as well as a natural "slide".

I could use a real harrow/arena rake to keep it raked, but the old gate works OK for now. If it were my own property, I would invest in the equipment. Also a rock picker, as they do sneak up from time to time

I use it all days, all weather. Sometimes there can be a puddle in the lowest corner, but generally it is safe and dry.

So, I would think that if you are working on a natural sand area, you would want to stake out your arena, get the earth movers in to clear the area, THEN see if you need to add anything - you can use the existing sand to level it.

Be aware, if you don't have your own diggers and earth movers, it can still get plenty expensive (as I discovered while paying by the hour this very nice man who just LOVES playing on his diggers - which means he is very slow... ).

Wicked

just a quick update, i've fenced off my area just to get an idea of the size.

my plan is to remove the top soil until i'm down to sand, leave it and see if water lodges on it. if water lodges i will drain it, if not then i'm going to put down a layer of membrane (i'm not sure what this is i just heard my digger man talking about it) and then the sand on top.

for now all i have is the fenced off area. i'll let ye know how i'm getting on. the way i'm looking at it is if it works its great, if it dosn't it'll do as a cattle pad.

weatherford

If it is naturally sand (as is my sand pit), why bother with the membrane?

My experience with the membranes is that they tear pretty quickly, when there isn't enough sand/footing on top of them, they are very slippery, and essentially, they are a waste of money.

I'd say, try it without the membrane first - if you are not happy, you can always add it later.

Good luck!!

spooner_src

Hi

I built a 20 x 40 sand arena recently.

Our field is a very well drained field so we didnt go down the root of expensive ground works on 3 channel drains etc. What we did was the following:

1. stipped off the top soil to good solid ground, and levelled it but not exactly.

2. Put up the kickboards (9 in) to establish the area.

3. With 4in clean cut stone we started to fill the area (approx 17 loads each 23 tonnes).

4. Level the stone and roll out membrane.

5. As we had a raised arena we needed extra height for the base therefore we added 2 layers of 4 in rails ontop of the existinging 9in kickboard.

5. Fine to medium grain washed sand was then put in to depth of 6in (13 x 23 tonne loads).

6. Now we are in the process of installing the fiber stablizer with rubber to create the root structure and bounce. Its not waxed so will have to keep it moist.

7. Roll in with 3 tonne compactor (with 12 tonne vibration).

result arena that will last for < 20K

Theponylady

weatherford wrote: »

If it is naturally sand (as is my sand pit), why bother with the membrane?

My experience with the membranes is that they tear pretty quickly, when there isn't enough sand/footing on top of them, they are very slippery, and essentially, they are a waste of money.

I'd say, try it without the membrane first - if you are not happy, you can always add it later.

Good luck!!

I totally agree with Weatherford. If you are on a sand pit, skip the membrane. The main reason the membrane is there is to stop rocks from coming up into the sand. The membranes are horrible things in my opinion. I can't count the number of arenas I've seen where the membrane was coming up, and was quite dangerous, as it could easily catch a foot and trip a horse.

convert

We've had our arena down for well over 10 years now and have never had a problem with the membrane. I think it all depends on how well the arena is managed, to be honest.

weatherford

Maintenance if definitely key with the membrane.

Unfortunately, I've ridden in several arenas where the maintenance was shoddy at best and the membranes miserable things that 1) get slippery when not covered with enough footing 2) tear and catch horses' feet.

I wouldn't have one - if building on a non-sand surface, I would rather do the layers of stone, "fines" (crushed stone dust) alternating and packed, left to settle, then packed and more stone dust added and packed, then sand as the top layer. You need a LOT to do this (at least a foot to 18 inches of packed stone dust), but it makes for fabulous footing.

Of course, ALL footing needs to be maintained - as I just noticed in my sand pit that hasn't been used all summer.... Oops!

Nicker2009

you want to budget about 6k for a good arena that you've subcontracted for. I built mine a few years back and dug down about a foot, and the layers went: membrane, pencil, 2" stones, hardcore, sand. it has excellent drainage.

Wicked

well hopefully it won't turn out too expensive. i'll show ye pictures and finsihing costs when done.

by the way i'm making mine 54Feet by 80 feet? odd shape but should be ok shouldn't it?

Wicked

site levelled, awaiting fencing next week...

spooner_src

Thats the way we did it. We just scraped a the topsoil around a bit so thats its kinda level and then put loads of drainage stones on top, then the membrane and then the surface. Not one puddle in the arena at any time. Very, very good drainage. It depends on your surface as well though.

Just so you know the area around the arena might get wet when it rains badly. I am talking half a meter around the arena, but only in bad rain and its outside the arena, so it wont stop you riding at all.

smudge09

wicked- how did your sand arena go after our very wet summer?

Wicked

hi,

well my fencing hasn't arrived yet so i still only have an area cleared in the field however we've had 40mm of rain the other night and the area is still dry.

and the ponies that are in the field are walking on it because its not fenced off yet. i'll post pics when have them

but so far so good

Wicked

good news folks, my fencing arrived. the posts are all down and all that has to be put up now is the railing.

The guy fencing it for me even said he couldnt' get over how dry the area was, especially after all the rain and him driving on it with his big tractor pounder fencer thing.

Wicked

well lads and ladies, just a update on the arena, it's been a while now since we done it, i've left it ever since to compact together, yesterday i left one of the mares and a pony out on it for a run around, they barely marked the surface of it,

i got an old yard scraper off a neighbour (very old one, he gave it to me for nothing) dad and i did a bit of welding a hey presto i have a leveler for it, hook it up to the back of the tractor and do a few wheeley's and the whole thing is back level in a few mins.

there is one area in the bottom corner that is heavier than the rest, but over time it will conpact to. The water dosn't sit on any of it.

so overall very happy with it and would recommend to anyone thinking of doing the same.