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New taxes on way to plug €5bn council debt

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    #32
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    FreedomJoe wrote: »
    Remeber the in the UK nobody paid and they had to do away with Poll Tax.
    Indeed, they renamed it 'council tax':rolleyes:


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    #33
    FreedomJoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭FreedomJoe


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Indeed, they renamed it 'council tax':rolleyes:


    Not quite


    Poll tax was a individual tax

    Council tax is a property tax


    Eitherway you still get more for your money for the UK property tax than what you will for the Irish.


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    #34
    Twin-go
    Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Twin-go


    How can anybody say we are alow taxed country?

    I did some quick calculations:

    Based on an average income of €34,000 p.a the yearly tax bill is approx €14,000.
    This €14k is made up of
    Income Tax at 20%
    Health Levey at 2%
    Specıal Levey at 2%
    TV Lıence at €160 pa
    Motor Tax (1800cc) 550 pa
    Government levey on insurance policys at 3% (health, Car, House)
    Fuel duty and VAT
    13.5%-21.5% VAT on clothıng>Gas>Electricity>Phone>Bin>Car Servicing and Parts>Insurance etc etc:mad::mad::mad:

    Not intitled to Medical card, no childrens allowence or other social welfare.
    Do get approx 400 pa in mortgague interest releif.

    I dont think I can afford to pay any Property or carbon tax with out a cut in tax elsewhere.


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    #35
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    I'm sure the Irish government will try to screw the renters with a property tax somehow since they are the ones not up to their eyeballs in debt in most cases.

    It will end up being paid by renters in many cases anyway though I guess.


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    #36
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Twin-go wrote: »
    I did some quick calculations:

    Based on an average income of €34,000 p.a the yearly tax bill is approx €14,000.

    are you talking credits/allowances into account?


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    #37
    rasper
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭rasper


    FreedomJoe wrote: »
    In the UK the council collect your Bins as part of the council tax.

    Will the government here be doing the same?

    Or will I have to continue forking out 500 a year for my bins, and 600 to the government for nothing?

    I dont think so!

    I wont be paying. And they can send me to jail and all the rest of us!

    Remeber the in the UK nobody paid and they had to do away with Poll Tax.

    Don't think they'll be enough room in the jails and if they are I'll be joining ya coz I haven't got a bulls notion of paying another unfair tax in this low tax economy, I get feck all from the government local or national and they've already wasted enough already .
    I will pay my share when the FF fiasco is finished (no fan of lab/fg either but better than the current clowns)


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    #38
    population
    Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭population


    In Iceland the first thing they did was haul the Govt out by the ear for the economic shenanigans that bankrupt the country.

    Over here we are still having to listen to moron after moron smugly saying "it's all Lehman Bros fault, we have a mandate from the people etc etc"

    We cannot rebuild unless we get the rot out immediatley


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    #39
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    We cannot rebuild unless we get the rot out immediatley

    Throwing out the present shower has its appeal. But the new government still has to collect tax. The taxes on property will not have increased greatly, they will merely be collecting them annually rather than when you sell your house.

    There may be issues with people who have no bin collection or bad water etc, but these are much more likely to be addressed when there is a property tax on each address than when they are paid out of a general tax pool.


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    #40
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Throwing out the present shower has its appeal. But the new government still has to collect tax. The taxes on property will not have increased greatly, they will merely be collecting them annually rather than when you sell your house.

    There may be issues with people who have no bin collection or bad water etc, but these are much more likely to be addressed when there is a property tax on each address than when they are paid out of a general tax pool.

    It will change how much of the tax goes toward protecting invested interests like property developers and people that are heads of useless boards within government.


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    #41
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    I think more thought has to be given to whether or not a property tax should be based on the value of a property or the cost of providing services to it.

    A tax based on value suits rural dwellers because it will mean that Dubliners will pay more.

    A tax based on number of occupants and the size of a property would be more equitable. Especially if it is linked to local costs, as cities benefit from economies of scale and we should be encouraging city-living as a way of make optimal use of services and helping to conecntrate labour near centres of employment.


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    #42
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Yeah farmers shouldn't exist and no town in Ireland is sustainable.

    Me thinks you never left the city on your bike.


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    #43
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    thebman wrote: »
    Yeah farmers shouldn't exist and no town in Ireland is sustainable..
    Or would you prefer that people in cities subsidise the rural lifestyle?


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    #44
    porte
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭porte


    Ok im going to stress this first im NOT racist in any way shape or form.
    Why in gods name are we wasting money supportring these refugees/asylum seekers how much is this costing the govenment, no sorry tax payer each week in staff, food, clothes, electric, housing ,solicitors ,court case and health care.


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    #45
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Or would you prefer that people in cities subsidise the rural lifestyle?

    Well you have not provided any proof that this is the case so I don't know if it is the case.

    Everyone pays taxes including people in rural areas. Farmers export their goods and improve our balance of trade and reduce our dependence on imported foods. They pay taxes on their businesses too.

    You are basically saying we should kill rural Ireland and import all our food. That will fix our economy.

    As usual, lunatic Dubliner that doesn't leave the capital often enough. I've had this discussion with another user on here before, he lost. I'm not going to repeat all the BS again. Needless to say your wrong and you need to leave the capital more.


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    #46
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    porte wrote: »
    Ok im going to stress this first im NOT racist in any way shape or form, but...

    FYP:rolleyes:


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    #47
    Bull76
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Bull76


    This is quiet a joke, Were to soft a nation. Well how can a government assume that we will accept this. Look at all the increases in taxes and stealth taxes that have been levied out in the last year and they want to put more taxes on us.

    How can we afford them. There telling us the people to tight up our finances. Paycuts left right and centre.
    Where as the politicians and all those in power are sure I don't want a paycut so lets just increase taxes and make a few up. I'd like a few extra weeks off as it is tough having to listen to all those poor folks complaining about how tough times have gotten.

    I for one am against anymore taxes as they don't benefit the country. Besides are they at the moment just think up of all the taxes we can pay. I mean whats a property tax for, we don't get anything for it. Carbon tax on feul, sure why not, then increase fuel costs and drive the carbon tax higher.
    Beyond a joke really...Time for decisive action.


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    #48
    bangersandmash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭bangersandmash


    thebman wrote: »
    As usual, lunatic Dubliner that doesn't leave the capital often enough. I've had this discussion with another user on here before, he lost. I'm not going to repeat all the BS again. Needless to say your wrong and you need to leave the capital more.
    Cyclopath2001 made a reasonable point. A value-based property tax will be naturally weighted against those who live in urban areas. This is at a time when we should be encouraging sustainable lifestyles, rather than rewarding sprawl or encouraging people to commute long distances from poorly-serviced areas.

    The poster said nothing about killing rural Ireland or destroying the livelihood of farmers. Interesting that you were so quick to put words in his mouth. Saying "your wrong" (sic) doesn't make it so.


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    #49
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    bangersandmash wrote: »
    Cyclopath2001 made a reasonable point. A value-based property tax will be naturally weighted against those who live in urban areas. This is at a time when we should be encouraging sustainable lifestyles, rather than rewarding sprawl or encouraging people to commute long distances from poorly-serviced areas.

    The poster said nothing about killing rural Ireland or destroying the livelihood of farmers. Interesting that you were so quick to put words in his mouth. Saying "your wrong" (sic) doesn't make it so.

    You can say all that bollocks all you want but as soon as you say urban is more sustainable than rural, you just end up coming across as another Dubliner doesn't know what a farm looks like that has convinced themselves that rural leaving is unsustainable somehow.

    Why should farmers be punished because you want to pay less tax on your property in Dublin? Farmers offer fresh fruit and veg to the Irish people and so provide an essential service.


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    #50
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    I'm surprised the government is thinking along the lines of a tax linked to property values. Isn't this what got us into trouble in the first place?

    Far better to link it to the consumption of local services and the cost of providing them.


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    #51
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The logical thing is for the tax to have both a sq metre element, which hits everyone equally on a geographic basis and a value of house element, which is a surrogate for ability to pay. Then everyone pays something, but people in Killiney pay a bit more, which would not appreciably affect people's propensity to live there. Stamp duty could then be reduced on the basis of the value element of the tax.


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    #52
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    and water taxes? come on it never stops pissing raining here
    So drink your own rain water.


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    #53
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    thebman wrote: »
    Why should farmers be punished because you want to pay less tax on your property in Dublin?
    Since when is a fair tax system 'punishment' for farmers? Is it not fair that local taxes be based on consumption and local costs?
    thebman wrote: »
    Farmers offer fresh fruit and veg to the Irish people and so provide an essential service.
    That's nice and when I shop, I pay whatever is asked even when they're more expensive than foreign produce. Why should I pay extra tax as well?


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    #54
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    thebman wrote: »
    Everyone pays taxes including people in rural areas. Farmers export their goods and improve our balance of trade and reduce our dependence on imported foods. They pay taxes on their businesses too.
    Is this a new thing? Farmers paying taxes?
    Are these taxes anything like the rates a PAYE employee would pay?
    What sort of percentage are we talking about on say an income equal to the average industrial wage? Let's not forget they decide how much to declare, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.


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    #55
    Triangle
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    One poster posted about a march on the Dail.

    I'd be definately on for that at this point. So far all i've heard from politicians is increased taxes and we'll reduce the politicans wage bill (and then do a 180 and not be 'able' to do anything, except increase taxes)

    It's about time the politicans copped on and noticed that the costs of the public sector is unsustainable and fix it.


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    #56
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Triangle wrote: »
    It's about time the politicans copped on and noticed that the costs of the public sector is unsustainable and fix it.
    One way we can reduce costs is by rolling back the 'decentralisation' project which was designed to make jobs in many small country towns at the expense of higher public sector costs. Centralising public-sector employment in the major cities will faciliate the transfer of staff among departments, and will help reverse the extra local costs caused by spreading our population out into unsustainable low-density areas.


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    #57
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Triangle wrote: »
    It's about time the politicans copped on and noticed that the costs of the public sector is unsustainable and fix it.
    We should identify useless vanity projects, such as the Department of the Gaeltact in Tubbercurry (was to be at the white elephant Knock airport)...led by the empire-building, Dublin 4 Gaelgeoir, O'Cuiv, and cut it for a start. The 'official languages act', which imposes a demand that all government documents and services be available in Irish should be repealed...it's like something out of the 'cultural revolution'.
    Mission Statement:
    To promote and support the sustainable and inclusive development of communities, both urban and rural,including Gaeltacht and island communities, thereby fostering better regional balance and alleviating disadvantage, and to advance the use of the Irish language.
    pah!


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    #58
    Martyr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Martyr


    NewDubliner, should we get rid of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs?


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    #59
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Martyr wrote: »
    NewDubliner, should we get rid of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs?
    Yes.


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    #60
    Martyr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Martyr


    what about Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, isn't that a vanity project?
    isn't tax payers money wasted on lazy dole scroungers who call themselves "artists"? some are on the dole 10+ years.

    Department of Defence, aren't they just a bunch of posers in uniform?
    we're not at war or have any financial interests abroad, so why not scrap them?


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    #61
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Martyr wrote: »
    what about Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, isn't that a vanity project?
    Tourism needs promotion, by an agency, such as Bord Failte as it brings in foreign earnings.
    Martyr wrote: »
    isn't tax payers money wasted on lazy dole scroungers who call themselves "artists"? some are on the dole 10+ years.
    Not sure if art has been a big contributor to the economy. Nice to have, but not at any cost.
    Martyr wrote: »
    Department of Defence, aren't they just a bunch of posers in uniform?we're not at war or have any financial interests abroad, so why not scrap them?
    We need an army to maintain some level of national security and to assist in the event of a natural disaster. Also to fly FF ministers around from film festival to office openings etc.


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