John O'Donoghue and his travel spending spree

Cork Boy

Cork Boy wrote: »

Sure even the pigs in bandon are protestant

:D

Hadn't heard that line in a few years!

Cork Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

:D

Hadn't heard that line in a few years!

i hear it every day! and with the ol man from only down the road from ballyseedy (for my sins) he's never short of reminders for me...langer

Cork Boy

I'll wipe the smile of the hoor's face on Sunday when sam comes home

Cork Boy

Cork Boy wrote: »

i hear it every day! and with the ol man from only down the road from ballyseedy (for my sins) he's never short of reminders for me...langer

I might be a Kerryman but my dad was born and bred...in Bandon!

Cork Boy

ha! maybe we were swapped at birth so. my olds were born in currow/castleisland. my dad got stationed as a garda in bandon, the barracks there is so full of kerrymen you can smell the sneem pudding in the hallways!

dodgyme

murphaph wrote: »

Conor, since the dawn of civilisation people have migrated from rural areas to urban areas. That's the way the human race has been developing for the last few millenia.

Err no!

The industrial revolution did swell the cities in the uk while Ireland although touched by it retained most of its 8 1/2 million people in rural congestion in the middle of the 19th century thus hardly justifying the statement "since the dawn of civilisation". Rapid urbanization of the world’s population happened over the twentieth century and varied between countries and development cycles. I think a very broad statement like yours need a response.

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps you should forget trying to censor me just because I'm not part of the hysterical mob screaming for some blood letting!.

I'm just giving you some of your own medicine. You're being a bit hysterical there yourself. You know well I can't censor you nor would I want to.

Deleted User wrote: »

O'Donoghue should be turfed out. As more and more posters here realise, (and I'm referring to recent posts by posters like deadhead13, Biggins and dodgyme) the reaction from the Opposition suggests that this abuse of position is rife and there is a lot more to come out. But that should not diminish his behaviour, he should be gone and I am not defending him..

Fair enough. Agree with all that.

Deleted User wrote: »

What I do not accept is someone abroad or some blow in from Cork telling me that John O'Donoghue was elected solely because of the Civil War, or because Kerry people are per se more stupid than the intellectuals in other counties and countries.

I presume the someone abroad is me, but I never said either of those things!

It's clear that O'Donoghue is not alone (even though his expenses were double the next pig down) in this scam. I've emailed Inda Kinny to voice my displeausure at his acceptance of O'Donoghue's apology. Clearly plenty of FG pigs in the trough as well, same goes for Labour. Doesn't mean we the people can't change it though!

murphaph

dodgyme wrote: »

Err no!

The industrial revolution did swell the cities in the uk while Ireland although touched by it retained most of its 8 1/2 million people in rural congestion in the middle of the 19th century thus hardly justifying the statement "since the dawn of civilisation". Rapid urbanization of the world’s population happened over the twentieth century and varied between countries and development cycles. I think a very broad statement like yours need a response.

I put my statement in a clear enough context and stated all that the first time! In general, the developing world has seen a draw to the cities and a push from the land as agriculture has become more and more mechanised and required fewer and fewer labourers. Why South Kerry should be any different during Ireland's economic boom of the 1960's is beyond me!

dodgyme

murphaph wrote: »

I put my statement in a clear enough .... Why South Kerry should be any different during Ireland's economic boom of the 1960's is beyond me!

Well stick to south kerry and stop talking about the dawn of civilisation. Term like that are probably way to general

murphaph

dodgyme wrote: »

Well stick to south kerry and stop talking about the dawn of civilisation. Term like that are probably way to general

I think everyone else understood my point.

Biggins

Any chance we can get back on topic!

maynooth_rules

Enda Kenny and Fine Gael have pissed away my vote today anyway. Patethic reaction to something that is absolutly sickening to pretty much every ordinary man, woman and child in this country. A simple sorry and thats the end of the matter!!!!!! **** that Enda, show some balls and prove we can have a bit more faith in you and your party than the shower that are in there now. Im bloody fuming that he thinks a simple 'sorry' will get rid of this matter. I just wish to god the Irish electorate could learn a little bit from the French.

murphaph

Here in Germany expenses are a maximum of €46,464 per annum.

The purpose of the tax-free expense allowance is to enable Members of the Bundestag to cover expenses incurred in the fulfilment of their mandate. These expenses include money spent on the establishment and upkeep of one or more constituency offices, on travel within the Member’s constituency and on constituency business. The expense allowance also covers the Member’s expenditure on a second home at the seat of Parliament.

The expense allowance is an index-linked lump sum which is adjusted each year on the first of January. It currently amounts to €3,782 per month. Claims cannot be made for costs exceeding the amount of the allowance, nor can these be claimed as tax allowances, since Members of the Bundestag are not among the occupational groups that are entitled to deduct income-related expenses from their taxable earnings. The legislature opted for an expense allowance because it best matches the constitutionally enshrined principle of the independent mandate. In addition, a lump-sum allowance for all Members based on average expenditure is the fairest and cheapest solution, as a system based on submission of receipts would create a huge increase in administrative expenditure for the Bundestag. Moreover, granting a lump-sum allowance means that the budgetary cost can be calculated precisely from the outset on the basis of the number of Members.

This is for an ordinary member of parliament in a G8 nation.

Travel expenses
The Bundestag meets the cost of Members’ official travel, just like employers who send their staff on business trips. Journeys undertaken in the exercise of a Member’s mandate, on the other hand, such as travel within his or her constituency, are paid for out of the Member’s expense allowance. Journeys made in trains operated by Deutsche Bahn are an exception. For these journeys, the Bundestag provides Members with a travel pass, which they may use for rail travel connected with the fulfilment of their mandate but not for private trips. If a Member travelling within Germany in the exercise of his or her mandate uses an aircraft, a sleeping car or any form of rail transport other than local public passenger services, such costs are reimbursed on a case-by-case basis on presentation of receipts.

As for their basic pay...

Amount of Members' remuneration
Article 48(3) of the Basic Law stipulates that Members of the Bundestag are entitled to remuneration which is adequate to ensure their independence. The amount of the remuneration must reflect the importance of the special position held by a Member of the Bundestag and the responsibility and burdens accompanying that office. It must also take account of the status attaching to tenure of a parliamentary seat within the constitutional system. Since its judgment of 5 November 1975 on the remuneration of Members of the Bundestag (reference 2 BvR 193/74), the Federal Constitutional Court has repeatedly invoked this principle. The federal legislature took account of its rulings when it adopted the Abgeordnetengesetz, the Members of the Bundestag Act, in 1977 by basing Members’ remuneration levels on the emoluments payable to holders of offices subject to similar responsibilities and burdens to those borne by Members of Parliament. Members of the Bundestag, who represent constituencies with an electorate numbering 160,000 to 250,000, were considered equivalent to the mayors of towns and local communities with 50,000 to 100,000 inhabitants and to ordinary judges at the supreme federal courts, who, like Members of the Bundestag, exercise their office independently and are subject only to the law.

The annual pay levels of these reference office-holders have not yet been reached. Parity will be established for the first time when Members have received their increments of 4.7% (€330 per month) on 1 January 2008, taking their monthly remuneration to €7,339, and of 4.48% on 1 January 2009, which will increase their monthly remuneration by a further €329 to €7,668. Members of the Bundestag do not receive any special payments such as holiday pay or Christmas bonuses. Their remuneration constitutes taxable income.

In its remuneration judgment of 1975, the Federal Constitutional Court also emphasised that Parliament itself must determine the amount of its financial benefits. It is not permitted to delegate that responsibility to any external body, such as a commission of experts. The Court also ruled that Members’ remuneration must not be pegged to civil servants’ pay. For these reasons the Bundestag decides on the level of its remuneration in a transparent procedure that takes place in the plenary chamber where the public can follow its proceedings. This allows the people to keep a watchful eye on their representatives. The basis for parliamentary decisions on the level of Members’ remuneration is a recommendation made by the President of the Bundestag on the basis of changes in the salaries of the reference office-holders.

So that's 92k basic pay a year plus 46.5k expenses plus travel to and from Berlin (app. 3k for an annual pass on the Deutsche Bahn which cannot be used for personal travel!) is a total of approximately €142k all in for a German MP representing a quarter of a million people. We have loads of TDs who claim that in EXPENSES alone! Ireland is a fcuking joke but we all knew that already.

dodgyme

murphaph wrote: »

I think everyone else understood my point.

Sure they did ... Yes the whole of civilisation did, or just the civilisation of south kerry throughout the millenia?

anyhow back on topic

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Enda Kenny and Fine Gael have pissed away my vote today anyway. Patethic reaction to something that is absolutly sickening to pretty much every ordinary man, woman and child in this country. A simple sorry and thats the end of the matter!!!!!! **** that Enda, show some balls and prove we can have a bit more faith in you and your party than the shower that are in there now. Im bloody fuming that he thinks a simple 'sorry' will get rid of this matter. I just wish to god the Irish electorate could learn a little bit from the French.

I think FG lost alot of votes today. Problem is who else can we vote for... Labour ... who then go into coalition with FG. It was a golden opp for FG. One that is now missed.

bonzos

Not so long ago the guards questioned some of the staff from today fm over the caricature of biffo in the nip....this in the eyes of FF was a bigger issue than this tosser wasting hundreds of €k of tax payers money on living the high life....FF= total disgrace!!!!!

Biggins

Fianna Fail don't want him sacked because he is still a Fianna Fail member and as such holds a seat for them - keeping the majority in the Dail.

Fine Gael doesn't want to push the issue further as doing so will further expose their own still secret expenses mistakes and worse, their perhaps secret abuses of the Dail monetary system.
They could have - SHOULD HAVE - jumped at the opportunity (even on behalf of their ground members who work tirelessly for them) to lessen Fianna Fail's majority but they willingly sacrificed that chance in order perhaps so that their own expenses scandals should go unreported.
(This could have happened if Fianna Fail was to lash back at the opposition in retort for pushing Mr O'Donoghue out of office.)


The whole lot are a national disgrace and I will be continuing to publicise this and events like it between now and the next general election!

Red Sleeping Beauty

O'Donoghue is no longer a FF member as far as I know. His job is supposed to be absolutely impartial so I think he had to officially leave the party.

But all the Fianna FAil guys are of course stone walling this as they always do.

Biggins

Alan Rouge wrote: »

O'Donoghue is no longer a FF member as far as I know. His job is supposed to be absolutely impartial so I think he had to officially leave the party.

In theory he's supposed to be that way!

Still an official member by the way: http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/john-odonoghue/

What way do you think he's still going to vote! Against his friends and fellow party members?

Sizzler

I am actually sick to the stomach that Kenny has accepted his "apology". There are so many things wrong with O'Donoghues so called apology that I dont even know where to start!

What does it take to get some accountability and honour into Irish politics? Seriously? His position does not make him impervious to criticism or beyond reproach. STEP DOWN NOW.

What more will it take for people to take to the streets

walshb

Sizzler wrote: »

I am actually sick to the stomach that Kenny has accepted his "apology". There are so many things wrong with O'Donoghues so called apology that I dont even know where to start!

What does it take to get some accountability and honour into Irish politics? Seriously? His position does not make him impervious to criticism or beyond reproach. STEP DOWN NOW.

What more will it take for people to take to the streets

You know, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. We are not talking about a rotten apple or two in the barrel; the barrel itself is rotten.

John is sorry for one thing, and that is getting found out, and the gall to try and make out that he wasn't aware of the travel arrangements made on his behalf is so pathetic.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

John is sorry for one thing, and that is getting found out, and the gall to try and make out that he wasn't aware of the travel arrangements made on his behalf is so pathetic.

I suppose technically he has a point, but of course noone believes that he didn't dictate the outrageously expensive standards which he expected and the fellow making the arrangements was presumably too scared to comment that it was a bit pricey. Plus it doesn't say a huge amount about him as a person, though it doesn't surprise me, that he would try and blame a civil servant. As if he didn't once stop to question whether this decadence was justifiable.

optocynic

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose technically he has a point, but of course noone believes that he didn't dictate the outrageously expensive standards which he expected and the fellow making the arrangements was presumably too scared to comment that it was a bit pricey. Plus it doesn't say a huge amount about him as a person, though it doesn't surprise me, that he would try and blame a civil servant. As if he didn't once stop to question whether this decadence was justifiable.

It sounds as if you are disgusted as us Conor... and want him to resign or be shamed into resigning by his party?... So why argue with us.

Him gone and a proper apology is all we want/deserve!

optocynic

optocynic wrote: »

It sounds as if you are disgusted as us Conor... and want him to resign or be shamed into resigning by his party?... So why argue with us.

Just arguing with those who put it down as some Kerry Mafia thing, or call for nonsense like to hang them all. He should be resign or be impeached or whatever is needed to remove him. That is it. No point in us all losing our heads and saying it was some evil plot by Kerry people to avenge the Civil War or whatever and we should kill them all and let God sort it out.

optocynic

Deleted User wrote: »

Just arguing with those who put it down as some Kerry Mafia thing, or call for nonsense like to hang them all. He should be resign or be impeached or whatever is needed to remove him. That is it. No point in us all losing our heads and saying it was some evil plot by Kerry people to avenge the Civil War or whatever and we should kill them all and let God sort it out.

I didn't see anyone say that... and I certainly didn't say it.
But if anyone did, I bet it was in jest!

The "Kerry people vote FF 'cos of the civil war" thing is true (and idiotic!)..
He is an arrogant FF gombeen, with a neck made of asbestos.
I want to see him resign... pay back everything.. and if that ruins him.. I can live with it!!!
But (some) Kerry people are turning it into a Kerry vs Dubs meeja thing..
It isn't, it is an integrty thing!

Biggins

optocynic wrote: »

It sounds as if you are disgusted as us Conor... and want him to resign or be shamed into resigning by his party?... So why argue with us.

Him gone and a proper apology is all we want/deserve!

To be honest, its not all I want.
I (and I suspect a lot of folk) want to have investigated the farce of expenses for the whole money grabbing/spending lot!

I mean like Jackie Rea.
Last year €89,000 in expenses alone, this year so far he's up to €69,000!

Tip of the ice berg is what we have got so far and ALL the shower in the Dail collectively don't want us to see the rest of it.





Last year - and this is on top of his HUGE wages!
You will note the "independence allowance" AND the expenses also allowed! Thats approx €130,000 of your tax money folks!





Just look at Fergus O'Dowd (FG) who is only in the job!
Over €114,000 in expenses so far - and he campaigned to the Louth public on the premise that he wanted to cut costs!
Sick, absolutely sick!

optocynic

Biggins wrote: »

To be honest, its not all I want.
I (and I suspect a lot of folk) want to have investigated the farce of expenses for the whole money grabbing/spending lot!

I mean like Jackie Rea.
Last year €89,000 in expenses alone, this year so far he's up to €69,000!

Tip of the ice berg is what we have got so far and ALL the shower in the Dail collectively don't want us to see the rest of it.





Last year - and this is on top of his HUGE wages!





Just look at Fergus O'Dowd (FG) who is only in the job!
Over €114,000 in expenses so far - and he campaigned to the Louth public on the premise that he wanted to cut costs!
Sick, absolutely sick!

I am actually happy that the guy I gave my number 1 vote to has the lowest expenses. Gormley.
But low expenses do not make up for selling your soul to satan!

optocynic

optocynic wrote: »

The "Kerry people vote FF 'cos of the civil war" thing is true (and idiotic!)..

That is complete and utter nonsense. Or only as true as other constituencies. I can find someone in Cork or Dublin who will vote Labour cos that's what Daddy did. To suggest it is unique to FF, or to Kerry, is just rubbish.

I'll put it another way, will you or the Corkonian who claimed the same thing above tell this board why Seamus Cosai Fitzgerald (FG) was such a better choice for the people of South Kerry at the last general election? I mean, it must be obvious to posters who claim the only reason they voted O'Donoghue was blind allegiance...it isn't obvious to me at all.

maynooth_rules

Biggins wrote: »

To be honest, its not all I want.
I (and I suspect a lot of folk) want to have investigated the farce of expenses for the whole money grabbing/spending lot!

I mean like Jackie Rea.
Last year €89,000 in expenses alone, this year so far he's up to €69,000!

Tip of the ice berg is what we have got so far and ALL the shower in the Dail collectively don't want us to see the rest of it.





Last year - and this is on top of his HUGE wages!
You will note the "independence allowance" AND the expenses also allowed! Thats approx €130,000 of your tax money folks!





Just look at Fergus O'Dowd (FG) who is only in the job!
Over €114,000 in expenses so far - and he campaigned to the Louth public on the premise that he wanted to cut costs!
Sick, absolutely sick!

Mj Nolan, my local representative is the sickening one for me. He has done nothing of note in his career, always been a pretty below average back bencher, lives one hour from Dublin, and then has the bloody gaule to claim that much:mad:

optocynic

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll put it another way, will you or the Corkonian who claimed the same thing above tell this board why Seamus Cosai Fitzgerald (FG) was such a better choice for the people of South Kerry at the last general election? I mean, it must be obvious to posters who claim the only reason they voted O'Donoghue was blind allegiance...it isn't obvious to me at all.

They voted for the Bull, cos he likes a drink...<mod snip> .. he loves the races... begorrah..

I'm not saying Kerry is worse than anywhere else..

I have a healthy lack of respect for the irish voters on a whole.
They are why we are, were we are...

Drumpot

optocynic wrote: »

I have a healthy lack of respect for the irish voters on a whole.
They are why we are, were we are...

+1 Agree 10000000%