setting up small home studio, need advice.

ElSeano93

what do i need to comfortably accomodate the recording of guitar, bass, drums and vocals, and how cheap could i get all of the equipment needed? doesn't need to be industry-standard stuff just want to make an envrionment for home recording. i know i'll need a PA system for the drums and a condenser mic, that else? i just need what's necessary, not many luxuries or anything. if you can enlighten me i'd be very grateful.
Cheers,
Seán.

PMI

Alot of views and no replies

Reason:

It s a long reply as you're pretty far off the ball....

you will need more than a condenser mic, you wont need a PA for drums either....

you basically need either 1 large or 2 reasonable sized treated rooms, with a host of mics, preamps and a DAW with a guy who knows how to fly it....

This will give you the basics and will sound like the basics as well for a few years of messing

Thats the reader digest version nice and short

ZV Yoda

Hi Sean... I have the set up you describe. I use my home studio to record drums, guitar, bass, keys & vocals.

Drums are the hardest to get right, but as a minimum, you'll probably need a relatively soundproofed room with decent internal acoustics. Small rooms are generally not great for drums. You'll need min 3 mics for a kit (2 overheads & one for the kick). Many people use up to 8 mics on a standard 5 piece kit. I'd suggest the cheapest (practical) mic set up would be 3 x Shure SM57s on the kit. When you're not using the mics on the kit, SM57s can be used for most instruments & vocals too - they're very versatile mics.

Next, you'll need to decide whether you want to go for a computer based recording solution or a standalone recording solution. Really depends on what kind of music you'll be doing, what you plan to do with your recordings & you want to spend.

Provide some more details & you'll get better responses from the folks on here.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

for what you describe to do with quality ,
and using the simplest of gear - but with quality


id say it will cost you about 6 grand , for equipment

and 8 grand if you want to be able to mix it as well,

ElSeano93

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Hi Sean... I have the set up you describe. I use my home studio to record drums, guitar, bass, keys & vocals.

Drums are the hardest to get right, but as a minimum, you'll probably need a relatively soundproofed room with decent internal acoustics. Small rooms are generally not great for drums. You'll need min 3 mics for a kit (2 overheads & one for the kick). Many people use up to 8 mics on a standard 5 piece kit. I'd suggest the cheapest (practical) mic set up would be 3 x Shure SM57s on the kit. When you're not using the mics on the kit, SM57s can be used for most instruments & vocals too - they're very versatile mics.

Next, you'll need to decide whether you want to go for a computer based recording solution or a standalone recording solution. Really depends on what kind of music you'll be doing, what you plan to do with your recordings & you want to spend.

Provide some more details & you'll get better responses from the folks on here.

I plan on doing acoustic/soft rock music. bare minimum i'll need to be able to record vocals and acoustic guitar, and that's really scraping it. i don't have 6 grand to spend really, the most i have as a budget would be 700 or so. i already have a room that would definitley be big enough, i already have access to materials for soundproofing the room, access to plexiglass and enough wood to make a recording booth, i know someone who will help wire everything up aaaaaand that's about it.:)

DamagedTrax

the most i have as a budget would be 700 or so

:eek:

good luck. you'll be very lucky to even get advice here with that budget. that would barely cover the software end!

iamhunted

if its for a small home studio/demos etc. forget the treated rooms etc. Buy an Edirol FA101 (the audio interface for your PC), run your guitars/bass/vocals etc into it and buy a Yamaha DD55 digital drumkit. You;d get both of those of under 800 euro but you'd need software to record with. I know people who have recorded singles which charted like that. Recorded in a shed too. At the end of the day, the initial recording isnt really as important as the actual tune.

shayleon

ElSeano93 wrote: »

what do i need to comfortably accomodate the recording of guitar, bass, drums and vocals, and how cheap could i get all of the equipment needed? doesn't need to be industry-standard stuff just want to make an envrionment for home recording. i know i'll need a PA system for the drums and a condenser mic, that else? i just need what's necessary, not many luxuries or anything. if you can enlighten me i'd be very grateful.
Cheers,
Seán.

tons of cheap recording interfaces out there. most computers nowdays are strong enough for them. for example firepod by presonus gives you 8 channels, 2 can be used for instruments.

you can find 2 cheap condensers for overheads, and then 1 cheap dynamic for bass drum which you can replace afterwards with a sample with software such as drumagaog.

feel free to phone me or PM if you are stuck.

cheers.

Aridstarling

I would recommend, assuming you already have a computer, one of these:

http://www.thomann.de/ie/tascam_us1641.htm

It comes bundled with Cubase LE and a nice Piano VST. Its a really good interface, lots of ins/outs and clean preamps. I use it myself. That's your interface and software taken care of. Leaving you three hundred to spend on mics. I'd say go with an SM57 which, as mentioned, can be used on just about everything and maybe two SE 2000s/Audio Technica AT 2020s which will take care of vocals, overheads and acoustic guitar. Should work out at in or around 700, depending on where you shop. Leaves you plenty of room to expand with more mics, different preamps, etc, in the future too.

Also, if you're anywhere in the midlands or around Dublin I'd be happy to give you a hand should you wish it.

This is

Buy a Boss Br-864 (250e)

a set of low end studio monitors (100e)

Some of those tbone mics from thomann

and blast away man!

For 700e you will never produce anything even remotely broadcastable. learn how to use the br-864 and whatever u do buy a shure sm58a and an sm57 too.

you will produce something only good enough to capture ur ideas and show to your friends. if thats what u want this would be grand.

good luck

Aridstarling

This is wrote: »

For 700e you will never produce anything even remotely broadcastable.

I would beg to differ.:rolleyes:

Bluebirdstudios

Hi Sean,
With that budget you show look at all in one box's 2nd hand . There are a lot of roland VS Range stuff out there on ebay land and elsewhere. Also look at yamaha, fostex , boss etc they all do these Studio in a box type stuff which might be the best way for you to go Price versus quality wise. The Mic and stands will also turn up second hand on many sites.
TIP Don't buy 10 mics within that budget buy 1 or 2 decent ones and then borrow or rent more when you need more to cut drums for example. You likely won't be cutting drums everyday not as much as bass,vocal,guitar and keys parts !!
All the best.
-Declan

madtheory

ElSeano93 wrote: »

i already have access to materials for soundproofing the room, access to plexiglass and enough wood to make a recording booth

Eeek! Before you waste your energy on that, read this:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

krd

I would say don't by the the BR - they have their uses but,,, but ,,

Don't go blowing thousands if you don't know what you're doing - most rigs even the good ones have been coobled together.

(What I'd really like to know is some farmers gay son, who's got a notion of setting up a recording studio - and has converted some out house into a sound production thing. )

Before you buy an expensive Condenser mike - Do you have anything to record that could do with that level of quality - For vocals - the condenser is good for menstrual music - but for rock and, roll it is not.

There are so many techniques that died out at the end of the 80s for getting really rich sounds.

One trick for getting real depth on a sound recording - get a load of cheap mikes and put them at different points in the room - have every come done to a stereo track with a little offset on the stereo balance on each mike - these gives the sound of say a very loud rock guitar a kind of depth - without sounding like those annoying cheesy PC based digital exciters.

(That's the Daniel Lanois sound - he uses a load of mikes to create a "room" sound - it's a way of doing stereo "excitment" without the a noticebale sound of a "stereo exciter")

Get a decent second hand desk - some decent patch panels - and some other stuff - hold off on the expensive mikes - if you really need them you can rent them

krd

So of the advice I completely disagree with.

People may howl - but I believe the best drum sound is from 2 cheap dynamic overheads and 2 cheap dynamic in the bass drum.

But the two major problems with recording drums are: one, the drum kit is **** - two, the drummer is really ****.

To get a great drum sound - you need a decent drummer.

If you could afford it you, could set mikes up with a seperate mixer just for recording drums - but you probably can't.

And there's loads of other drum mics. Special shot mics for hi-hats or snares.

But

If you want sound as clean as that - just use a drum machine - or drum replacer.

For the best effect - just gety the drummer to play really hard - then loop his best bits.

But remmeber - all this talk of expensive mics - you're producing music for rock fans not - scientists.

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

People may howl - but I believe the best drum sound is from 2 cheap dynamic overheads and 2 cheap dynamic in the bass drum.

Have you examples we can listen to krd ?

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Have you examples we can listen to krd ?

Yes,,, I thought you might ask that.

So here are two examples. - This is about the drum sound not your taste in music

A drum kit - like a singers voice - should sound best if it's recorded in the same way the drummer hears it.

The cardigans - daddys car - 4 mics - two overheads and two in the bassdrum. It's not a case that you can hear every detail,, and every squeak of the bassdrum pedal - it's that overalll sound fits - nothing is really sticking out - the drums sound like they're being played by one person as one instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04WBnFtyFuY

I was trying to find a worse example - but I could remember the names of the culprits - but here's an example of bad drum micing.

Dublin band - ana gog

The hi-hat rhythm is persistent throughout - at a really annoying frequency - every drum part sounds seperate - but it doesn't sound like a drum machine.

The recording would have been so much better - if there had just been three mics - and no extra symbol or hi-hat shot mics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWrpxXf51FI

but make up your own mind

I don't think being able to slightly raise and lower the volume of the hi-hats or snare is going to add any thing - if ana gog are to go by ,, it sounds really annoying - I think it's putting to much effort in to the wrong part of the recording.

For live drum sounds - you're trying to capture what a live drummer can achieve by playing - if you want other rthymic sounds, use a drum machine (it has so much less attitude then a real drummer and tends to be in time)

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Have you examples we can listen to krd ?

Maybe Ana gog are not the worst example - but do I really need to hear the guys hi-hats and symbols like that. And his little pointless percussion runs.


Ask me - the smiths


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N_Dwpkzmuw
I always thought their drums were too thrilly , but if you compare it with Ana Gog it makes the smiths sound like the buthole surfers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI9D4q8pLuw&feature=related

That wasn't really making a good point - just thought it would be funny.


but in comparison to ana gogs - the symbols are virtually conservative on gun's'n'roses - welcome to the jungle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYRC4H64EFk

(look at Axl's 'teased' hair and makeup - he looks a complete fag)

madtheory

Very true. Best rock drum sound I ever got was with one AKG omnidirectional dynamic mic, compressed with the Pro Tools version of the 1176. But it was a lovely room, great player who knew how to tune the kit. Hard to go wrong!

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

Yes,,, I thought you might ask that.

So here are two examples. - This is about the drum sound not your taste in music

A drum kit - like a singers voice - should sound best if it's recorded in the same way the drummer hears it.

The cardigans - daddys car - 4 mics - two overheads and two in the bassdrum. It's not a case that you can hear every detail,, and every squeak of the bassdrum pedal - it's that overalll sound fits - nothing is really sticking out - the drums sound like they're being played by one person as one instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04WBnFtyFuY

I was trying to find a worse example - but I could remember the names of the culprits - but here's an example of bad drum micing.

Dublin band - ana gog

The hi-hat rhythm is persistent throughout - at a really annoying frequency - every drum part sounds seperate - but it doesn't sound like a drum machine.

The recording would have been so much better - if there had just been three mics - and no extra symbol or hi-hat shot mics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWrpxXf51FI

but make up your own mind

I don't think being able to slightly raise and lower the volume of the hi-hats or snare is going to add any thing - if ana gog are to go by ,, it sounds really annoying - I think it's putting to much effort in to the wrong part of the recording.

For live drum sounds - you're trying to capture what a live drummer can achieve by playing - if you want other rthymic sounds, use a drum machine (it has so much less attitude then a real drummer and tends to be in time)

Always loved The Cardigans ! Yer man was a Neve user too as I recall too.

I don't understand 2 on the kick though ?

fitz

Nice drum sound in that Cardigans track.
What's this doing in the commercial interaction forum though?

PaulBrewer

fitz wrote: »

Nice drum sound in that Cardigans track.
What's this doing in the commercial interaction forum though?

Indeed

PaulBrewer

Cymbals :mad:

kfoltman

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Cymbals :mad:

Pet peef?

(mine too)

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Always loved The Cardigans ! Yer man was a Neve user too as I recall too.

I don't understand 2 on the kick though ?

I don't fully understand it either - it's something to do with Phase cancellation.

Where the cardigans got it from, was experimenting with beatles setups, Vox's and mic's - If you listen to the cardigans 'life' you'll hear beatles 'abbey road' bits all over it - especially golden slumbers.

But the two in the bass bin and two overheads is a micing arrangement the Cardigans used - I heard them talking about it a few times in interviews - They'd turn up to play a music festival and ask for that particular set up for their drum micing - and the local sound guys and drum techs would go nuts - saying no no, that can't work - but it's like the beatles Hamburg micing arrangement - and it really does work - it doesn't sound like the 'classic' festival drum kit mic arrangement - It sounds more like being close up to the kit - and what's really great about it the bass drum has a real punch to it - that otherwise might get lost if the toms had a democratic level of volume.



But something that really surprised me a few years back - this kid played me a recording of his band made in a shed - Everything about it was awful - the guitar - the awful singing - BUT the drums were fantastic - And I kept thinking they were looped samples and I listened to it a good few times - but it was their real drummer, mic'd up with 3 crapped out mic's.

I'm not saying there is an absolute way to record drums - but a decent drummer may not need that much mic'ing. Drums are a potential nightmare - And I've heard - the best way to avoid a pedal squeak is to use fewer mic's that way you might get away with it.

For Rock drumming i don't think it helps to have too much mic'd up. If you want perfect sounding drums - use 'superior drummer' -- But do you want perfect sounding drums? - (This is not saying every crap drummer has character - because they don't)

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

but it's like the beatles Hamburg micing arrangement -

The 'Talking Bollox' Light just came on in my computer ?

The Beatles were putting 4 mics on the kit in a stripper bar in Germany in 1960, yea?

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

the best way to avoid a pedal squeak )

the best way to avoid a pedal squeak is to oil it ...... that TB light is flashing now ....:rolleyes:

madtheory

What is there to understand about two mics on the kick? Ya just move 'em 'til it sounds good!

The Audio Technica one with the condenser and dynamic in it seems cool, I'd like to try that out.

PaulBrewer

Why specifically two ......

Why not specifically 1?

madtheory

Two mics so the engineer can show off to the talent and bamboozle them about "phase"?

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

Two mics so the engineer can show off to the talent and bamboozle them about "phase"?

as I suspected ...