Model Release Question

honerbright

Most likely a stupid question (I'm good at those! :pac:) But anyway:
Say you took some photos at a marathon or other sporting event involving non-professionals and wanted to enter the photos in a competition/display them/sell them etc, would you need to get a model release?
Thanks

Paulw

In general, no, you don't need one. I've taken many photos at events, including road running, and have them on my website, as well as having entered some in competitions.

I doubt you'd find much use for selling them, but you are entitled to, if you wish.

Of course, there are always exceptions, but in general, you are fine.

pullandbang

Actually that's something I've never given much thought to.
I've take pics at sports events, have had them published on the particular sports main website and have posted them here. They've also been published in a magazine - all free of charge btw.
Never thought I'd ever have to get any permission from the people in the pics.

Is there ever a case where you would need permission?

AnCatDubh

[rambling]

I don't specifically know but i think you would be governed by whatever the media gets governed by if you are being published in magazines or newspapers.

I thought individual prints sales needed a model release if the individual is identifiable but then again I don't think street photography needs such a release.

Hmnnnnn......

[end of rambling]

honerbright

pullandbang wrote: »

Is there ever a case where you would need permission?

I was at the Achill Half-Marathon a few weeks back and I was taking photos from just before the finish line and at one point a little girl of about 3 years old spotted her Dad running past, so she raced out onto the road and ran after him and he stopped, ran back and picked her up and carried her over the finish line and it was the sweetest thing ever. Anyway, I have a photo of the two of them running towards me, Dad carrying the wee girl who has a huge grin on her face and it's just a really lovely moment. My boyfriend is at me to enter the photo into a competition and I just wanted to check if I needed a model release before hand, because if so, I wouldn't be able to enter it as I have no way to contact the people at all.

Thanks so much for all the responses!

Paulw

If it's a public event like that, on a public road, and you're in public, then you can snap/print/use that image in any way, except for advertising purposes.

Sounds like a very special photo you captured there. Well done.

sineadw

AFAIK the subject doesn't even have to be in a public place when you take it - only the photographer. Unless its being used for advertising.. Been a few classic examples of that, like this one in australia.

@Honerbright - you're fine Just don't sell it for a poster ad campaign! :pac:

Duchovny

sineadw wrote: »

AFAIK the subject doesn't even have to be in a public place when you take it - only the photographer.

Well not exactly if a person is at home and you take a picture you can be easily sued because you are take that person privacy.

Anouilh

Duchovny wrote: »

Well not exactly if a person is at home and you take a picture you can be easily sued because you are take that person privacy.

Some time back I took photos of visitors in my own home. Since I did not know one of the people well I asked for permission, which was granted. However, since I like having my photo taken, that was the first time I was fully aware of how unpleasant it is for some people to have their image recorded without their spoken permission. On the street, I am now very aware of people's demeanour when they see a camera. The best photos, for me, are when a bypasser is interested or content with the photo being taken. Why photograph scowling, miserable faces when there are so many pleasant ones about.

Being sued would be very awkward indeed...

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9709&L=IRISHLAW&D=0&O=A&T=0&P=597&D=1

Reading about laws in relation to Appropriation of Personality might put everything back in perspective.

pullandbang

honerbright wrote: »

I was at the Achill Half-Marathon a few weeks back and I was taking photos from just before the finish line and at one point a little girl of about 3 years old spotted her Dad running past, so she raced out onto the road and ran after him and he stopped, ran back and picked her up and carried her over the finish line and it was the sweetest thing ever. Anyway, I have a photo of the two of them running towards me, Dad carrying the wee girl who has a huge grin on her face and it's just a really lovely moment. My boyfriend is at me to enter the photo into a competition and I just wanted to check if I needed a model release before hand, because if so, I wouldn't be able to enter it as I have no way to contact the people at all.

Thanks so much for all the responses!

Think I've just seen your photo here on the Ryan Tubridy "Look of the Irish" competition. It looks great

honerbright

pullandbang wrote: »

Think I've just seen your photo here on the Ryan Tubridy "Look of the Irish" competition. It look great

Hahaha, yeah, that's the one.
The one on that site with the fox is gorgeous! I'd never heard of one being a pet before.

pullandbang

honerbright wrote: »

Hahaha, yeah, that's the one.

Stuck one of mine up too for the craic.
It's my neighbours sliding on the sheet of wet plastic. It looks badly cropped on the site though. The original is wider and you can see all the lads in it.

DaireQuinlan

Hmmm. I'd be wary about the T&C on these submissions.

"By entering, you grant to RTÉ a non-exclusive royalty-free worldwide license in perpetuity to copy, publish and make your photograph available to the public on the RTÉ website and on RTÉ owned media services and in print publications."

So you're granting RTE a license to use them however they want, including commercially. I don't know how RTE will end up using them, I'd be reasonably confident that if its for promotional purposes it'd just be for the purposes of promoting the competition or whatever, but bear in mind that you are assuring RTE of this license, and that those terms are yours to grant in the first place.

OTOH, IANAL so grain of salt, grain of salt ...

CabanSail

honerbright wrote: »

Most likely a stupid question (I'm good at those! :pac:) But anyway:
Say you took some photos at a marathon or other sporting event involving non-professionals and wanted to enter the photos in a competition/display them/sell them etc, would you need to get a model release?
Thanks

"You know not what you ask, Grasshopper"

After the talk we had last night about Photography and the Law I am now better informed but a lot less certain of where I stand in these matters.

From what I gathered from last night at a Public Event, such as a Marathon, there will be an expectation that there will be photographers and so you are free to use the image. However if you were to use the image commercially then you would need some sort of Model release if the people are the subject of the photograph and not just incidental to the image.

It seem that when it comes to the Law very littel is simple or straight forward.

DaireQuinlan

CabanSail wrote: »

From what I gathered from last night at a Public Event, such as a Marathon, there will be an expectation that there will be photographers and so you are free to use the image. However if you were to use the image commercially then you would need some sort of Model release if the people are the subject of the photograph and not just incidental to the image.

So its all down to how RTE plan on using them. Could entering them into the competition run by a commercial entity which could potentially use them for promotional purposes be regarded as commercial use ? If so then who is responsible for procuring the necessary model releases ?

It seem that when it comes to the Law very littel is simple or straight forward.

That's for sure.

CabanSail

From what I gather, then this sort of useage is unlikely to cause a problem.

If the image were to become the centre piece of a large advertising campaign then it is likely there could be a problem.

honerbright

Although having a look information over at the RTE site, it does say:

A VERY BRIEF DESCRIPTION (max 40 words) of your photo, naming who is in it if you can, and telling us where it was taken and any story behind it:

So does that mean it's assumed that people will be sending in photos of people at events/street photography/etc that they dont know?

I do have the father in the picture in questions name, which I found by comparing his race number to the results, but I've no way of contacting him.

Hrmmm. Bit worried now that this could all cause some trouble depending on how RTE would use it if it were to win..

CabanSail

From what we heard last night I think you will be OK. You are not infringing privacy & there is an expectation that there would be Photography. You are not doing this as a commercial venture.

Anouilh

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Hmmm. I'd be wary about the T&C on these submissions.

"By entering, you grant to RTÉ a non-exclusive royalty-free worldwide license in perpetuity to copy, publish and make your photograph available to the public on the RTÉ website and on RTÉ owned media services and in print publications."

So you're granting RTE a license to use them however they want, including commercially. I don't know how RTE will end up using them, I'd be reasonably confident that if its for promotional purposes it'd just be for the purposes of promoting the competition or whatever, but bear in mind that you are assuring RTE of this license, and that those terms are yours to grant in the first place.

OTOH, IANAL so grain of salt, grain of salt ...

It's worth remembering that, if a photo wins a competition, it will get the sort of exposure that would take years to achieve as a solitary photographer working quietly. This might make signing away some rights acceptable to amateurs who are not planning on setting up a commercial enterprise.

However, many competitions are, seemingly, taking advantage of ordinary peoples' natural tendency to be generous with their work, as this shows:

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=857809

Being aware of the exact meaning of the licence your photo will be used under is essential. Anybody who has thousands of equally good photos might be happy to just send in work, but while remaining aware of what exactly they are signing up to.

I have put some of my photos into the "Picture This" system, and would have happily added more if it were not for the fact that the licence is a bit too extraverted for my taste:

http://picturethis.channel4.com/terms

DaireQuinlan

Anouilh wrote: »

It's worth remembering that, if a photo wins a competition, it will get the sort of exposure that would take years to achieve as a solitary photographer working quietly. This might make signing away some rights acceptable to amateurs who are not planning on setting up a commercial enterprise.

However, many competitions are, seemingly, taking advantage of ordinary peoples' natural tendency to be generous with their work, as this shows:

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=857809

Being aware of the exact meaning of the licence your photo will be used under is essential. Anybody who has thousands of equally good photos might be happy to just send in work, but while remaining aware of what exactly they are signing up to.

I have put some of my photos into the "Picture This" system, and would have happily added more if it were not for the fact that the licence is a bit too extraverted for my taste:

http://picturethis.channel4.com/terms

Yeah I wasn't really considering that aspect of it. So long as people are aware of the license terms and what they entail then far be it for me or anyone else to tell them they can't sign away the rights to their image. What I'm concerned about here is whether or not it's actually legally acceptable to do this (for example in the case mentioned above of the marathon runner) if the photo is to be used commercially and the photographer doesn't have an appropriate model release if it's necessary.

Anouilh

I was taking the original question as already discussed, I suppose. This is the area of photography that always makes me realise why I have so many photos of flowers.

Working within the fine art area also saves a lot of bother. Advertising and commercial work leads to a very different set of rules.