A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

circadian

N53 -A37 -N53 really hits home the difference in quality for me. The N53 isn't great but it's ok, the A37 however, is a death trap. I drive to Derry from dublin on a regular basis and once you cross the border into the North the drop in quality is dramatic. Parts of the current route are outright dangerous with a national speed limit, no hard shoulder and a high kerb with sharp bends.

A dual carraigeway to a high standard should eliminate the danger of having to come onto the main road from a side road, especially when crossing to go in the other direction.

road_high

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

The A5 Newtownstewart Bypass opened in 2003, A5 Omagh Throughpass completed in 2006, A5 Strabane Throughpass, A5 Tullyvar Road realignment in 2010...

The South has nearly 1000km of new motorway in that time though...as well as all the other improvements.

BelfastVanMan

road_high wrote: »

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

The A5 Newtownstewart Bypass opened in 2003, A5 Omagh Throughpass completed in 2006, A5 Strabane Throughpass, A5 Tullyvar Road realignment in 2010...

The South has nearly 1000km of new motorway in that time though...as well as all the other improvements.

Oh, absolutely.
But the point I was making is that the A5 HAS seen some upgrades in the last 20 years.

Sadly, as is the case with many of our recent upgrades in the north, they were practically obsolete before construction even began.

marno21

Varadkar reaffirms A5 commitment during Belfast speech:

Leo Varadkar wrote:

As part of this, we are working on our ambitious multi-annual 10-year capital plan to be finalised by the end of 2017. This will outline investment in roads, in public transport, in energy, in water, in schools, in higher education and in hospitals and health facilities. This capital plan will include detailed funded plans to complete the national road network, including links between Dublin and Derry-Londonderry and Donegal. We remain committed to contributing £75 million to the construction of the A5. In this context the Irish Government will also give consideration to other infrastructure commitments including the Ulster Canal, the concept of the Narrow Water Bridge, and improving line speeds on the Dublin to Belfast rail line. This 10 year capital plan will also accelerate delivery of Ireland's critical public transport infrastructure and will include substantial investment in the ports and airports that Ireland will need as a successful, global trading nation – infrastructure of benefit to the people and businesses of both parts of this island.

Read more at: http://www.derryjournal.com/news/in-full-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-s-belfast-speech-on-north-south-relations-1-8088100

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

Varadkar reaffirms A5 commitment during Belfast speech:

Is 75 mill gonna pay for much of it? It was costed at about £800 million last I heard.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Is 75 mill gonna pay for much of it? It was costed at about £800 million last I heard.

75m is the current guaranteed contribution. Leo is thinking of giving an addition £465m

betistuc

If I was Leo, I'd be holding off parting with any funds until we know if there's going to be a hard border or not. The whole lot could come to a standstill at Aughnacloy if the DUP get their way. He might be better off pumping the money into roads on his own side of the border. Dualling the whole of the N4 to Sligo for example.

road_high

spacetweek wrote: »

Is 75 mill gonna pay for much of it? It was costed at about £800 million last I heard.

Jesus, that's sound expensive. Is it even motorway standard?
I think the whole new M9 cost roughly €1 billion in 2010 for 110 km of new motorway, I didn't think this road was as long as the A5?

BelfastVanMan

It's type 6 dual. (UK terminology)
Somewhere between 2+2 and HQDC.
No hard shoulders, compact GSJs and parking laybys every mile or so.

road_high

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

It's type 6 dual. (UK terminology)
Somewhere between 2+2 and HQDC.
No hard shoulders, compact GSJs and parking laybys every mile or so.

How long is the whole planned upgrade?

marno21

road_high wrote: »

How long is the whole planned upgrade?

The entire A5, Newbuildings near Derry to the border, 94km

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

The entire A5, Newbuildings near Derry to the border, 94km

Ah, cost makes more sense. Didn't realise it was that far.

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

If I was Leo, I'd be holding off parting with any funds until we know if there's going to be a hard border or not. The whole lot could come to a standstill at Aughnacloy if the DUP get their way. He might be better off pumping the money into roads on his own side of the border. Dualling the whole of the N4 to Sligo for example.

Or even along this corridor, I personally wouldn't fund any of the A5 until the road in the Republic is done to standard. The N14 Letterkenny-Lifford & N2 Ardee-Emyvale should come first. At this rate we'll have a brilliant A5 which we funded and the road in our own country isn't up to scratch at all.

Recent N2 fatalities should emphasise this even more

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Or even along this corridor, I personally wouldn't fund any of the A5 until the road in the Republic is done to standard. The N14 Letterkenny-Lifford & N2 Ardee-Emyvale should come first. At this rate we'll have a brilliant A5 which we funded and the road in our own country isn't up to scratch at all.

Recent N2 fatalities should emphasise this even more

I agree. The North is far too used and dependent on a handout culture for public spending be it from the UK Treasury and now it seems in infrastructure from us. Fine if funding wasn't scare (which it always is!) then we could of course assist in our mutual interest, but not before infrastructure in this jurisdiction.

spacetweek

road_high wrote: »

I think the whole new M9 cost roughly €1 billion in 2010 for 110 km of new motorway, I didn't think this road was as long as the A5?

I'm wrong - according to this, it'll be £1049m pounds, not £800m! A billion pounds! No wonder the DUP are going mad at that much being spent on non-Unionist voters.

Donegal Storm

marno21 wrote: »

Or even along this corridor, I personally wouldn't fund any of the A5 until the road in the Republic is done to standard. The N14 Letterkenny-Lifford & N2 Ardee-Emyvale should come first. At this rate we'll have a brilliant A5 which we funded and the road in our own country isn't up to scratch at all.

Recent N2 fatalities should emphasise this even more

I wouldn't have much problem with it if we at least had a clear idea of what we're doing with our parts of the route but there doesn't seem to be one. There's no concrete plan of what's happening south of Ardee and little progress on the sections you mention.

The N14 never seems to be getting beyond early planning for what must be one of the worst major primary routes in the country, narrow lanes, high hedges right on the verge, countless local accesses, constant bends and no overtaking opportunities along its entire length. North of Monaghan also needs a whole new route. If we're happy to throw hundreds of millions towards a project in a foreign country then it'd be nice to see some sense of urgency on these sections

BelfastVanMan

Donegal Storm wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

Or even along this corridor, I personally wouldn't fund any of the A5 until the road in the Republic is done to standard. The N14 Letterkenny-Lifford & N2 Ardee-Emyvale should come first. At this rate we'll have a brilliant A5 which we funded and the road in our own country isn't up to scratch at all.

Recent N2 fatalities should emphasise this even more

I wouldn't have much problem with it if we at least had a clear idea of what we're doing with our parts of the route but there doesn't seem to be one. There's no concrete plan of what's happening south of Ardee and little progress on the sections you mention.

The N14 never seems to be getting beyond early planning for what must be one of the worst major primary routes in the country, narrow lanes, high hedges right on the verge, countless local accesses, constant bends and no overtaking opportunities along its entire length. North of Monaghan also needs a whole new route. If we're happy to throw hundreds of millions towards a project in a foreign country then it'd be nice to see some sense of urgency on these sections

Hardly a "foreign country";

At the very least, it's the main road from Dublin to County Donegal!

marno21

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Hardly a "foreign country";

At the very least, it's the main road from Dublin to County Donegal!

It could have border posts on it within 2 years.

I don't see NI upgrading the N2 or any other roads as part of a "cross border initiative".

I have no issue with upgrading the A5 but I'd rather the N14 and N2 done first, given that we have full control of those. The N2 and N14 especially aren't exactly world class roads either.

Donegal Storm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Hardly a "foreign country";

At the very least, it's the main road from Dublin to County Donegal!

Not meaning to drag border politics into it, just agreeing that we should be prioritising schemes under our own jurisdiction before committing so much money

BelfastVanMan

Donegal Storm wrote: »

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Hardly a "foreign country";

At the very least, it's the main road from Dublin to County Donegal!

Not meaning to drag border politics into it, just agreeing that we should be prioritising schemes under our own jurisdiction before committing so much money

Again; it's the road from Dublin to Donegal.

:-/

Donegal Storm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Again; it's the road from Dublin to Donegal.

:-/

What's your point? I know it is but the road is still under UK jurisdiction and will mainly benefit Derry/Strabane/Omagh and surrounding counties, it's not as if we're spending the 400m just to connect Letterkenny to Dublin.

Nobody knows what's happening with the border yet, I can easily foresee a situation where we aid the A5 then leave the N14 in limbo indefinitely. Hopefully the transport strategy to be announced will put some actual plans and timeframes in place

BelfastVanMan

Donegal Storm wrote: »

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Again; it's the road from Dublin to Donegal.

:-/

What's your point? I know it is but the road is still under UK jurisdiction and will mainly benefit Derry/Strabane/Omagh and surrounding counties, it's not as if we're spending the 400m just to connect Letterkenny to Dublin.

Nobody knows what's happening with the border yet, I can easily foresee a situation where we aid the A5 then leave the N14 in limbo indefinitely. Hopefully the transport strategy to be announced will put some actual plans and timeframes in place

8

My point is the one i've made. Donegal, as a county, suffers worse than most from poor access from all directions.

The A5/N2 upgrade is well overdue.

marno21

The N14 has been restarted and is currently at the feasibility study/route selection stage. Given the lack of pipeline schemes, it should be starting around 2021/2022.

The fact that we are building a dual carraigeway to the border and have absolutely zero coherent plans to connect the M1/N2 to this is my issue.

There's a lot of work to be done between Ardee and Emyvale and this seems to be getting neglected. That would be priority in my mind. Same as we built the M1 to the border and didn't worry about the A1 getting done first.

road_high

The A1 is a still not a great road at all, after Newry all those lethal junctions and crossings.
Article on the Bel Tel today about so much money have being spent on the A5 and not an inch of Tarmac laid

L1011

road_high wrote: »

Article on the Bel Tel today about so much money have being spent on the A5 and not an inch of Tarmac laid

Blame the UUP for that. Appeal after hearing after appeal after hearing; all to keep a few votes from some big rural farmers. And they lost the seat there anyway!

road_high

L1011 wrote: »

Blame the UUP for that.

Said something about legal challenges but didn't go into much detail?
I guess the horror of good roads linking to the republic are too much for some

Aontachtoir

road_high wrote: »

The A1 is a still not a great road at all, after Newry all those lethal junctions and crossings.
Article on the Bel Tel today about so much money have being spent on the A5 and not an inch of Tarmac laid

I read that too - didn't realise the A5 had been held up for all of 10 years. I was just up in that part of the country and this road would be a terrific boon. If we could combine it with N4 dualling to Sligo it would completely open up the northwest.

Aontachtoir

Incidentally there's an article in today's Times of London that the British are going to insist on a customs border across the island rather than in the Irish Sea.

I guess the posters above urging caution about giving the DUP €500m to build a road with brand-new customs checks at either end of it were right. Maybe we should focus our A5 resources on the N4 instead, as that's the way that any goods travelling to and from Donegal will have to go to reach the rest of the country without leaving the EU.

doopa

Looks like this will be proceeding in the absence of the dup/SF government...

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/a5-upgrade-work-on-derry-to-strabane-stretch-to-start-within-months-1-8265905/amp

cgcsb

Varadkar and May probably have gotten some sweetheart deal sorted regarding customs arrangements, just wait until they tell Arlenne what's going on. :eek: