nowhere near the bottom (house prices, with pics)

ei.sdraob

Take a lookie here

property is still widely overvalued in this country

heres a 5 bed McMansion in Florida, close to Disneyland (listed on rightmove)
http://trl.to/i4ox2

@ $129,000 (€90,600)

---

heres what a search here in galway county brings up
http://www.daft.ie/1454773

@ €85,000




or

this one for €100,000 it even has a palm tree in front
http://www.daft.ie/1448594





I fear we have a long way to go yet :cool:
across the pond they are facing up to the bubble here we are still in denial it seems

Wertz

I lived in the States about 9 yrs back...property was at those kind of values back then as well. I remember coming home and seeing the 2001 prices here and just laughing, and they only ever went up from then until early 2008.

One thing though...houses over in the US may be cheap looking to us, but there are some other issues...property taxes, especially on luxury/high end property are a large outlay and one that has to be met every year. Also the price of zoned development land is relatively low compared to here. Additionally you get an awful lot of people who rent over there but it is (or was) seen as being dead money in Ireland, by those who rushed headlong into stupidly high mortages that fueled property price rises...

[edit] I agree fully though...some of the stuff on daft is, well, daft.

ei.sdraob

Wertz wrote: »

I lived in the States about 9 yrs back...property was at those kind of values back then as well. I remember coming home and seeing the 2001 prices here and just laughing, and they only ever went up from then until early 2008.

One thing though...houses over in the US may be cheap looking to us, but there are some other issues...property taxes, especially on luxury/high end property are a large outlay and one that has to be met every year. Also the price of zoned development land is relatively low compared to here. Additionally you get an awful lot of people who rent over there but it is (or was) seen as being dead money in Ireland, by those who rushed headlong into stupidly high mortages that fueled property price rises...

[edit] I agree fully though...some of the stuff on daft is, well, daft.

very true and very "daft" alright

tho dont worry we are gonna get property taxes and alot more soon here as well, thats when things will get really interesting

oh and ECB rates have only one way to go ^^^^ this would cause murder here

thebman

Those houses aren't selling for those prices you'll find.

I think estate agents put them up at the old price and gradually reduce them week on week until they start getting interest.

At the end of the day, our market has become so messed up who the hell knows what a house is worth anymore? It is worth what someone is willing to pay and nobody knows how much people can borrow from banks or how many people can borrow from the banks and if they are willing to for the property the seller is trying to sell.

In short all eggs are in the air and nobody can see them at the moment so lets just hope they don't break when they land.

That's my take on our market at the moment. You could probably find a reasonably priced house eventually on those sites too compared to the old prices.

ei.sdraob

houses? they look like cow sheds to me

Wertz

ei.sdraob wrote: »

tho dont worry we are gonna get property taxes and alot more soon here as well, thats when things will get really interesting

But see there's the missing link...the yanks see the long picture on property and the relevant taxes are imposed in a somewhat sustainable manner to insure income for the State and local government over the lifetime of the property.
Here we decided to impose one off type taxes in the shape of stamp duty etc...those are only imposed when a property is bought/sold and everyone but first time buyers pays them. We've come to see how much of the country's spending habits were built on the back of these one off taxes...and now that we see the folly in them, we'll instead turn to property taxes...but what of the multitude of buyers who have forked over X tens of thousands of stamp duty to state coffers and most of whom are paying that tax off through part of their mortgage (and will be for years to come)...to then turn around and say "Oh well, that wasn't enough, we also need another annual payment because we suck at maths" is nothing short of criminal. We atsk these poeple with overseeing the growth and financial sustainability of the country and thye piss it up against a wall and come sback looking for more when that's run out.
That's before we even get to the point of how such taxes are to be imposed; Location? Square footage? "Value" of the property? Names in ahat?

ei.sdraob

Wertz wrote: »

But see there's the missing link...the yanks see the long picture on property and the relevant taxes are imposed in a somewhat sustainable manner to insure income for the State and local government over the lifetime of the property.
Here we decided to impose one off type taxes in the shape of stamp duty etc...those are only imposed when a property is bought/sold and everyone but first time buyers pays them. We've come to see how much of the country's spending habits were built on the back of these one off taxes...and now that we see the folly in them, we'll instead turn to property taxes...but what of the multitude of buyers who have forked over X tens of thousands of stamp duty to state coffers and most of whom are paying that tax off through part of their mortgage (and will be for years to come)...to then turn around and say "Oh well, that wasn't enough, we also need another annual payment because we suck at maths" is nothing short of criminal. We atsk these poeple with overseeing the growth and financial sustainability of the country and thye piss it up against a wall and come sback looking for more when that's run out.
That's before we even get to the point of how such taxes are to be imposed; Location? Square footage? "Value" of the property? Names in ahat?

completely agree

but taxation is rarely "fair"

the population can control taxation thru representation, but FF represented builders and galway tent crowd not the people who elected them

now these people are about to be fleeced even more, maybe this would be a wake up call for the population to pay more interest to politics as it affects their wallets

jimmmy

do not worry, there will be real riots in the streets and people will stop simply paying all taxes if the govt ever tried to impose an annual property tax, on top of all the tax people have already paid ( stamp duty, tax to auctioneers, builders + estate agents etc ). The elephant in the room is public sector spending ; govt needs to address that bigtime first.

Fratton Fred

thebman wrote: »

At the end of the day, our market has become so messed up who the hell knows what a house is worth anymore? It is worth what someone is willing to pay and nobody knows how much people can borrow from banks or how many people can borrow from the banks and if they are willing to for the property the seller is trying to sell.

I looked at a house near me, it was an executor sale and needed serious amounts of work. the whole place needed re-plastering, re-wiring new kitchen, bathrooms etc, but it was available for €500k. I told the agent I would give them €300 for it as it needed at least €100k spent on it. It eventually sold for €400k.

the property next door but one is one the market for €900k. I asked the agent if they were interested in offers and was told that €900 was a good price and was priced for a quick sale. It has now been on the market for 9months and the agent is still insisting that at €900k it is priced reasonably for a quick sale.

Like you say, no one appears to have a scooby doo about house prices:D

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Take a lookie here

property is still widely overvalued in this country

---

heres what a search here in galway county brings up
http://www.daft.ie/1454773

@ €85,000




or

this one for €100,000 it even has a palm tree in front
http://www.daft.ie/1448594



I fear we have a long way to go yet :cool:
across the pond they are facing up to the bubble here we are still in denial it seems

Is that last one in Forida what with the palm tree and all ?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

houses? they look like cow sheds to me

Now now, cow sheds would have slatted floors offering better sanitary facilities

Fratton Fred wrote: »

...
the property next door but one is one the market for €900k. I asked the agent if they were interested in offers and was told that €900 was a good price and was priced for a quick sale. It has now been on the market for 9months and the agent is still insisting that at €900k it is priced reasonably for a quick sale.

Like you say, no one appears to have a scooby doo about house prices:D

Ah bless yet another EA who believes that they have set the coprrect market price for the area :rolleyes:
You should remind him it ain't 2007 anymore and santa doesn't exist

BTW I think this thread should be moved ot Accomodation & Property perhaps ?

ei.sdraob

the housing bubble,
delusions of grandeur and current denial,
and the high prices

have alot to do with the current state of the irish economy

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the housing bubble,
delusions of grandeur and current denial,
and the high prices

have alot to do with the current state of the irish economy

Ah but have you ever read most of the threads over on the other forum ?
A lot of threads are about how the Irish economy was allowed to become to dependent on property.
Of course some still see the price of houses dictating the economy rather than the other way around
I can see your point though about kepeing it on this thread.

BTW weren't you tempted by those lovely plam trees ?

ronbyrne2005

In American , the bastion of capitalism the cities themselves buy land on outskirts at agricultural price plus a small premium. They then rezone it and sell it on to builders who only make their profit from what they build an not from speculating on land prices. Thats why massive bubbles tend not to happen there. Our bubble was several magnitudes worse than ours.

ei.sdraob

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

In American , the bastion of capitalism the cities themselves buy land on outskirts at agricultural price plus a small premium. They then rezone it and sell it on to builders who only make their profit from what they build an not from speculating on land prices. Thats why massive bubbles tend not to happen there. Our bubble was several magnitudes worse than ours.

nope it wasnt

it was as delusional tho






source (which compiled graphs from various other sources)
http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/

transylman

ei.sdraob wrote: »

nope it wasnt

it was as delusional tho






source (which compiled graphs from various other sources)
http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/

According to those graphs, yes it was. In america increase was 2 times, in ireland over same period it was 5 times.

ednwireland

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Take a lookie here

property is still widely overvalued in this country

heres a 5 bed McMansion in Florida, close to Disneyland (listed on rightmove)
http://trl.to/i4ox2

@ $129,000 (€90,600)

---

heres what a search here in galway county brings up
http://www.daft.ie/1454773

@ €85,000




or

this one for €100,000 it even has a palm tree in front
http://www.daft.ie/1448594





I fear we have a long way to go yet :cool:
across the pond they are facing up to the bubble here we are still in denial it seems

god their cheap where do i buy

oh c**p there in florida f**cking long commute, now wheres that website of mud huts in subsaharan africa bet their cheap as well. dont think comparing prices in ireland to florida is much use.
but i do agree i think there may be a way to go on house prices, but i think people will be staying put until the market catches up, just watch property snakes and ladders on channel 4 to see the s**t people are in in the uk, everyone (bar one i have seen is renting their properties or living in them because they cant make back the sale price plus the renovation costs)

ei.sdraob

transylman wrote: »

According to those graphs, yes it was. In america increase was 2 times, in ireland over same period it was 5 times.

you right i didnt drink my coffee this morning when posting that

we managed to outdo US and UK, not much to be proud about

ednwireland wrote: »

god their cheap where do i buy

oh c**p there in florida f**cking long commute, now wheres that website of mud huts in subsaharan africa bet their cheap as well. dont think comparing prices in ireland to florida is much use.
but i do agree i think there may be a way to go on house prices, but i think people will be staying put until the market catches up, just watch property snakes and ladders on channel 4 to see the s**t people are in in the uk, everyone (bar one i have seen is renting their properties or living in them because they cant make back the sale price plus the renovation costs)

you should click on the daft links and see how long of the commute you be taking from the 2 sheds in ireland linked in first post

btw not everyone commutes, my commute is a whole 10 seconds it takes me to walk into my home office most of the days

them 2 sheds dont even look like they have electricity, never mind high speed internet

eamonnm79

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

In American , the bastion of capitalism the cities themselves buy land on outskirts at agricultural price plus a small premium. They then rezone it and sell it on to builders who only make their profit from what they build an not from speculating on land prices. Thats why massive bubbles tend not to happen there. Our bubble was several magnitudes worse than ours.

You would think with the lack of funding in local government they would have thought of that.
I wonder why they never did?
I guess brown envelopes can cloud judgements sometimes.

American political activists often accuse the government of deliberitely privitising easy money and socialising losses.

Ireland it would seem is even worse, for the way we put the interests of insiders ahead of the general population.

ardmacha

You would think with the lack of funding in local government they would have thought of that.
I wonder why they never did?

Of course they thought of it. Have you forgotten
"
COMMITTEE ON THE PRICE OF BUILDING LAND, REPORT TO THE MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ROBERT MOLLOY, CHAIRMAN MR. JUSTICE J. KENNY (DUBLIN,1974) a.k.a. THE KENNY REPORT"

http://irishlabour.com/dublinopinion/kenny%20Report.pdf
(warning : very big pdf).

They just didn't act on their thoughts. We have had the greatest phase of development that will ever be seen, and nothing was done.

thebman

Yeah all poor standard housing with no amenities.

On the plus side the construction sector will still have fixing their crappy work when the actual economy does come back up and we can change planning laws to hopefully encourage amenities and all that government owned land from Nama can be reused to build amenities.

So we may be able to salvage something out of this mess if we plan it out properly.