Refund of Security Deposit

XJR

I've had a tenant for two years who signed a one year lease when first taking the property in 2008. At the end of this term (june 2009) we signed another one year lease same conditions other than a drop in rent.

Within a month of signing the second lease the tenant has said that he wants to leave. My understanding is that he must either re-assign the lease or sub-let on the same terms and conditions as our lease. I also understand that failure to comply with these conditions leaves the tenant liable to a deduction of an amount of the security deposit.

Can anyone confirm that this is the case?

I know there are several threads dealing with similar issues, my question however relates to the signing of a second lease and how that afffects the tenants rights in regard to par 4 tenancy

Victor

As I understand it, you have to refund the deposit and make a claim via the PRTB.

However, it very much depends on the wording of the lease relating to deposits and leaving.

XJR

Does the second lease negate the Part 4 ?

I don't want to rip the guy off, but I'm pretty sure this is going to cost me money - I wouldn't have agreed the second lease if I thought he was going to give notice after a month or so.

geem

XJR wrote: »

I've had a tenant for two years who signed a one year lease when first taking the property in 2008. At the end of this term (june 2009) we signed another one year lease same conditions other than a drop in rent.

Within a month of signing the second lease the tenant has said that he wants to leave. My understanding is that he must either re-assign the lease or sub-let on the same terms and conditions as our lease. I also understand that failure to comply with these conditions leaves the tenant liable to a deduction of an amount of the security deposit.

Can anyone confirm that this is the case?

I know there are several threads dealing with similar issues, my question however relates to the signing of a second lease and how that afffects the tenants rights in regard to par 4 tenancy

Legalities apart - Do you know why the tenant is leaving? Have they found a cheaper place or have to move for work?
Because if they are a good tenant who can't afford it now, it might be worth lowering the rent to keep them - better than leaving property empty for 6 months while you find the next one. Lots of empties out there.

XJR

He's an OK tenant - doesn't give me grief and rent is paid on time every month.

Two months before the end of the first lease I dropped the rent by 7.5% on the condition that he sign a lease for the second year. Before the second year's lease was signed he said he couldn't afford the reduced rent so I dropped it by a further 12%, that's close on a 20% reduction. So I'm fairly sure the rent is competitive.

The reason given for wanting to leave it is an offer of local authority accommodation; I've no reason to believe it's not true. But I wouldn't have dropped the rent on two occasions if I thought I would have to go to the hassle and expense of finding another tenant.

geem

I see well if he gets local authority accomodation he won't be persuaded to stay.

XJR

I dont expect that he will stay - what I'm asking is that having signed a years lease where do I stand.

Again I point out I don't want to **** him over but I'm going to incur additional expense (already have done) and want to see if I can cover some of this.

Hagar

Again I point out I don't want to **** him over

Then don't. Life is hard, he's just trying to get by same as you. Unless it's going to put you in the poorhouse let it go.

Eglinton

I'm not quite with it today so maybe I'm mis-reading but why is everyone saying the OP has to return the deposit just like that? The tenant signed a new one year lease. Is he not liable for the remaining rent for the duration of the contract as everyone points out time and time again in this forum and as the OP has stated himself?

Given the times we're in though maybe the OP should maybe be a nice guy and return the deposit and just negotiate taking a small amount for readvertising etc. and get the tenant to cover the rent until a new tenant is found.

gibo_ie

Victor wrote: »

As I understand it, you have to refund the deposit and make a claim via the PRTB.

However, it very much depends on the wording of the lease relating to deposits and leaving.

wrong! hold deposit and legally the tenant must pay until end of term in lease. Go through the PRTB to get the full amount if you must.

Of course you dont have to do the above but according to the bill that is the correct outcome.

astrofool

Unless the tenant finds a replacement, they are liable for the rent for the whole year. With a lease signed, this does not fall under part 4 tenancy in any way at all, meaning its' notice periods can be ignored.

Xiney

It wasn't a good move for the tenant to sign a new one year lease but he had no way of knowing he was going to get local authority housing, plus you pressured him into it with a rent reduction prior to the end of the lease - well within your rights to do this but he may have felt he had no choice.

Also, if he refuses local authority housing 3 times in 18 months they can deny him rent allowance.


Honestly, legally you're within your rights to screw the guy for the remainder of the lease. And renting is business. But if this guy loses his rent allowance you may not end up getting paid anyway.

XJR

To say I pressured the tenant is pure conjecture on your part and is in fact incorrect. He came to mee looking for another year which I was happy to give but do you honestly think I wanted to drop the rent again - the only reason I did that was to keep him on.

If I thought that he was going to leave at this point I wouldn't have offered either of the reductions. I'm pretty certain that if I unilaterally decided to end the lease and chuck him out, he'd be screaming blue murder and I'd be hearing a different stroy here.

draven3410

ring the Citizens information board. or check their webpage. I think i remember reading what the landlord has to do in that situtation

Jaysoose

Can you not just have a chat with the guy, he was a good tenant and obviously this oppurtunity came up unexpectedly for him. If he had messed you around in the last year or so then it would be a different story but the guy is obviously trying to play it straight with you.

Be the good landlord for once, subtract the cost of a new advert and leave the whole situation with a nice fuzzy feeling.

D3PO

Victor wrote: »

As I understand it, you have to refund the deposit and make a claim via the PRTB.

However, it very much depends on the wording of the lease relating to deposits and leaving.

dont think so. the chairman of the PRTB was ont he Right hook 2 days ago saying deposits wer efor damange beyoond wear and tear and to cover outstanding rent. given hes signed up for another 11 months on the lease holding the deposit would cover outstanding rent so wouldnt be due back to the tennant.

and thats coming from the PRTB themselves

XJR

I spoke to the tenant and outlined what the options were:

• sublet
• reassign the lease
• stay in the house until I find another tenant

Failing that a portion of the deposit (yet to be determined) would be withheld from the deposit.

That said I'm not looking to withhold the deposit so I've asked the tenant to make the property available for viewing for two hours per week - hopefully if this works out I'll have a tenant in when he moves out - he gets his deposit back and everyone is happy.

Carawaystick

XJR wrote: »

I spoke to the tenant and outlined what the options were:

• sublet
• reassign the lease
• stay in the house until I find another tenant

Failing that a portion of the deposit (yet to be determined) would be withheld from the deposit.

That said I'm not looking to withhold the deposit so I've asked the tenant to make the property available for viewing for two hours per week - hopefully if this works out I'll have a tenant in when he moves out - he gets his deposit back and everyone is happy.

as the point above you pointed out, the deposit covers materiel damage only. you need to sue him/ go via prtb for failure to fulfil the lease. keeping the deposit will count against you.

XJR

Carawaystick wrote: »

as the point above you pointed out, the deposit covers materiel damage only. you need to sue him/ go via prtb for failure to fulfil the lease. keeping the deposit will count against you.

I dont' think that's quite right check out citizeninformation


In regard to returning the deposit it says a lanlord has an obligation to :

Return deposits to the tenant (unless the tenant has not paid the rent or has damaged the dwelling)

As the tenant has not paid the rent according to the lease I guess the deposit could be forfeited.

Anyhow I'm hoping it won't come to that, I've had a couple of viewings so hopefully I'll have a new tenant in the near future.

XJR

Just thought I'd give you an update on this

Tenant moved out two weeks ago and I frankly was astounded at the damage done to the place. All the furniture was brand new and the house completely decorated prior to the original letting in July 2008.

When I checked the property there was the following damage:

- bed broken
- brand new matress replaced with stained old one
- tears in two chairs of three piece
- nail varnish all over the place including a large spillage on a tiled floor and the skirting boards
- dining table broken
- Freezer drawers broken
- House needs complete repainting
- Cigarette burns on front of house all around door needs repainting
- Wash hand basin in bathroom broken
- 2 Window blinds broken
- New bedroom carpet required
and the list goes on


To cut a long story short it looks unlikely that any of the deposit is going to be returned.

eth0_

XJR wrote: »

When I checked the property there was the following damage:

In future you should probably make regular checks of your property to ensure tenants don't do this again, maybe every 3-4 months?

Do you have any contact details of the tenants who did the damage, perhaps you could take them to court?

the_syco

XJR wrote: »

- brand new matress replaced with stained old one

I'd call this theft.

XJR wrote: »

- dining table broken
- Freezer drawers broken
- Wash hand basin in bathroom broken
- 2 Window blinds broken

Would this be classed as destruction of property?

Ask for an address to forward on any money left from the deposit to be forwarded to, total the cost, and send him a bill.

whizzbang

Xiney wrote: »

plus you pressured him into it with a rent reduction prior to the end of the lease

I wish my landlord would pressure me into a new lease with a rent reduction.

Kipperhell

It is amazing the people who always assume the landlord is at fault think the tenant should be let slide on the agreement he signed:rolleyes:

Considering the damage certainly sue for the rent. The mattress theft alone just illustrates that the tenant is not treating the landlord fairly.

If a landlord broke his agreement in the manner as described people would be all over him telling the tenant to go to the PRTB and "tell the tax man" advise.

Considering the cost to make a claim is so small you have nothing to lose but you will have coverage for any lost payment. A good landlord is not one that is a push over but one that secures maintenance.I would consider a repaint as standard wear and tear costs myself but new furniture broken is not wear and tear. It sounds like normal tenant disregard but it still is not right.

Had a tenant take shelves he put up with him which would have been annoying damage alone but he pulled them off the wall destroying the plaster. He was furious at the deposit being kept and I am pretty sure he smashed the windows a month later after he left. Obviously me being a bad landlord stealing his deposit. I would have paid for the shelves rather than have him cause so much damage.