Why won't any supermarket do organics properly?

probe

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well Húrin thanks for all that but you, along with everybody else thus far still have not answered my question - why do supermarkets bother stocking organic products at all if they are not going to do it properly?

The bottom line is margin. Ideally the supermarket would like to be able to buy a head of lettuce for 10c and sell it for EUR 2, or thereabouts. Buying sustainably produced food eats into supermarket margins, because they have to pay the economic cost of production.

If you buy lettuce that has been grown in heavily fertilized land (which fertilizer consumes large amounts of natural gas in its production), artificially heated under glass (using oil), it will grow almost overnight (slight exaggeration) - you are not paying the full economic cost of production. Because the gas and oil used to accelerate, proliferate and mechanise the production process is not infinite.

As long as price cheating is allowed in terms of real economic finite energy input costs, sustainable solutions will be a minority sport. It seems to me that most supermarkets carry "organic" products as a superficial marketing gimmick. The cost of dumping unsold product is part of the marketing cost.

Basic consumer education is needed in terms of the choices.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

I could go on but won't as those that agree with me will continue the good fight while the rest of you will continue to support shops and farmers that couldn't give a damn what you put into your bodies as long as you pay over your money like sheep.

So basically, what you’re looking for is not an “answer” as such, but rather agreement from everyone on this thread that supermarkets are evil bastards?

I’m going to ignore your insinuation that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a “sheep”.

bokspring71

Supermakets work in our society because people use them to buy goods.

The whole organic/non organic debate is interesting, but essentially flawed due to the fact that our population now lives longer than at any other time in the history of the world, and that's after eating non organic foods for most of their lives. It's a lovely idea that organic foods are "better" for us, but it's not supported by evidence that organic food is more nutritious for us, and there is no evidence as to whether it has any effect on our longevity.

I love the idea of organic food, and think food quality is important for each of us. But that doesn't mean that we should automatically assume it is "better" for us.

Judgement Day

Twenty years of longer life spent rotting in an old folks home with Alzheimers disease is hardly a ringing endorsement of our 'healthy' eating. Thanks for dragging this thread back as I was just thinking about it the other day. There doesn't seem to be much interest in green issues on the boards.

Phototoxin

why don't supermarkets stock organic food...

All of the food in a supermarket is organic as it contains carbon. The whole 'organic' thing is a lie. Benzene is organic. It's also carcinogenic. Also by using 'inorganic' chemicals we get healthier plants that are cheaper to produce. Did you know that WATER is inorganic so don't drink water :pac:

bokspring71

Judgement Day wrote: »

Twenty years of longer life spent rotting in an old folks home with Alzheimers disease is hardly a ringing endorsement of our 'healthy' eating. Thanks for dragging this thread back as I was just thinking about it the other day. There doesn't seem to be much interest in green issues on the boards.

If that were the only option, then I'd agree. Are you , in fact, arguing that it is the eating of non organic foods over the lifetime of many of our senior citizens which is responsible for Alzheimers disease?

What percentage of our populations in their 70's are in old folks homes with alzheimers disease?

What percentage of our populations in their 80's are in old folks homes with alzheimers disease?

What percentage of our populations in their 90's are in old folks homes with alzheimers disease?

From memory, most people who advocate that we eat organically grown foods only suggest there are health benefits, nutritional benefits and "live longer" benefits. the evidence seems to not support this and I wonder what evidence you have?

bokspring71

Phototoxin wrote: »

All of the food in a supermarket is organic as it contains carbon. The whole 'organic' thing is a lie. Benzene is organic. It's also carcinogenic. Also by using 'inorganic' chemicals we get healthier plants that are cheaper to produce. Did you know that WATER is inorganic so don't drink water :pac:

To which I'd add that "organically" produced foods seems to imply that the food is "better" for us to eat than the alternatives. If one considers, for example, mushroom production, that nasty word "pesticides" are used to control the growth of pathogens which are carcinogenic to humans.

Which would you rather eat; Mushrooms where proven carcinogens to humans have been eliminated by the (we hope safe) use of pesticides, or "organic" mushrooms where these carcinogenic pathogens have not been controlled and may well be present?

Macha

bokspring71 wrote: »

To which I'd add that "organically" produced foods seems to imply that the food is "better" for us to eat than the alternatives. If one considers, for example, mushroom production, that nasty word "pesticides" are used to control the growth of pathogens which are carcinogenic to humans.

Which would you rather eat; Mushrooms where proven carcinogens to humans have been eliminated by the (we hope safe) use of pesticides, or "organic" mushrooms where these carcinogenic pathogens have not been controlled and may well be present?

Um..you can argue about the use of the word 'Organic' and replace it with whichever one you like. It still remains that Organic refers to a method of production, not any quality of the end product.

I can't believe how anthropocentric everyone on here is: organic isn't about you, it's about the environment.

squod

taconnol wrote: »

organic isn't about you, it's about the environment.

Can't say I agree with you on that point, many supermarkets now sell
various friut & herb producing plants. I reckon this premotes a interest in the consumer.
It's also now easier than before to grow produce organically yourself thanks to large retail chains and supermarkets.

Tommorrow ,for example I could take out my sprouting trays and keep myself going with mung bean sprouts, if I so wish.

jawlie

taconnol wrote: »

I can't believe how anthropocentric everyone on here is: organic isn't about you, it's about the environment.

I didn't know that myself and assumed, in my naiveity, that organic food was about whetever we each, as individuals, wanted it to be about.

This thread was about supermarkets and organics, and in the supermarkets I got to maybe you should tell them that orgainics is all about the environment and that they are wrong to sell them on the basis of health benefits to us.

How dare they! Do they not know that's it's about the environment?

Judgement Day

As the OP of this thread, it is about why supermarkets do not make a proper approach to providing organic food - no more, no less! My point is that the basic staples of the Irish diet - bread, butter, milk etc. are NOT provided in Organic form on a consistent basis. Some supermarkets stock organic milk, but no organic butter - bread, well none of them do - eggs some do but most don't. My local Supervalu stocks organic Goats milk but NOT organic cows milk (which is available from the same dairy!) and, on occasion sell organic lemons but precious little other organic fruit or veg. The same supermarket never have any organic meat but persist, in a rather half-hearted way in stocking 'yellow pack, Cold War style' Bunalun products.

As for supermarkets selling organic food for health reasons rather than environmental reasons - come on! Are these the same supermarkets stuffed with products contaminated with Hydrogenated vegetable oil - yeah they really care about our health?

My only point is that the general approach by supermarkets to the provison of organic food is like a clothes shop that can sell you a shirt tie, jacket, socks and shoes but can't provide you with anything to cover the middle part of your body - underwear, trousers etc. It is not that there is no profit in cows milk and big profits in goats milk, it's just that supermarket buyers can't be bothered to research the concept properly. Supermarket retailing is virtually impossible to lose money at so manaagement get complacent, fat, lazy and useless! I promise this is my last contribution on this one. :mad:

robtri

Judgement Day wrote: »

As the OP of this thread, it is about why supermarkets do not make a proper approach to providing organic food - no more, no less! My point is that the basic staples of the Irish diet - bread, butter, milk etc. are NOT provided in Organic form on a consistent basis. Some supermarkets stock organic milk, but no organic butter - bread, well none of them do - eggs some do but most don't. My local Supervalu stocks organic Goats milk but NOT organic cows milk (which is available from the same dairy!) and, on occasion sell organic lemons but precious little other organic fruit or veg. The same supermarket never have any organic meat but persist, in a rather half-hearted way in stocking 'yellow pack, Cold War style' Bunalun products.

As for supermarkets selling organic food for health reasons rather than environmental reasons - come on! Are these the same supermarkets stuffed with products contaminated with Hydrogenated vegetable oil - yeah they really care about our health?

My only point is that the general approach by supermarkets to the provison of organic food is like a clothes shop that can sell you a shirt tie, jacket, socks and shoes but can't provide you with anything to cover the middle part of your body - underwear, trousers etc. It is not that there is no profit in cows milk and big profits in goats milk, it's just that supermarket buyers can't be bothered to research the concept properly. Supermarket retailing is virtually impossible to lose money at so manaagement get complacent, fat, lazy and useless! I promise this is my last contribution on this one. :mad:

How hard is it to understand, THEY DON'T SELL IT BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE BUY IT ERGO NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH.

it is more profitable to have shelf space for items that sell quicker and in much more volume....
Supermarkets are in business to make money... not to pander to your likes or my likes, but to the general populence likings.