Sudanese woman faces 40 lashes for ...

chezzer

wearing trousers!! a disgrace ,, how dare she dress indecently this way
insulting Allah ..


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8173714.stm

Hagar

If she'd worn them under her Burkha nobody would have known.

tbaymusicman

That's just crazy i mean how can they justify it?Its not your usual case of each to there own!!But we don't understand so cant judge properly :mad::mad:

chezzer

Well ... what's there to understand ??


This isn't something we the rest of the world need to respect ...

there is no sense in such a backward savage system sucj as Sharia law...

tbaymusicman

Ok well get out the shotgun it's hunting season:p

getz

its the old sharia law again,several punished were from the mainly christain south,in sudan non-muslims are not supposed to be subject to islamic law,

Flamed Diving

Ah, we must show respect for religion.

bjnr0

We are all equal , women , men. Religion deserves NO RESPECT. We must refuse to tolerate the intolerant. The sadists who support , inflict and agree with this punishment, are worthy of the same treatment.

What someone wears, who someeone sleps with, whether they choose to take alcohol etc is THEIR CHOICE.

Zombrex

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Ah, we must show respect for religion.

Well technically it is not religion, in fact the woman's defence is that there is nothing in Islamic law that says she has done something wrong, it is Sudanese criminal law that she has fallen fowl of.

Flamed Diving

bjnr0 wrote: »

We are all equal , women , men. Religion deserves NO RESPECT. We must refuse to tolerate the intolerant. The sadists who support , inflict and agree with this punishment, are worthy of the same treatment.

What someone wears, who someeone sleps with, whether they choose to take alcohol etc is THEIR CHOICE.

Don't disrespect my religion. :mad:

Dades

Previously seen here.... but since this thread is already underway...

Tyrrial

I guess if we can't have a secular ireland then i'll take a lapse catholic one over a Muslim one... poor, poor Sudanese Atheists.

Rev Hellfire

Lets be honest this has less to do with Islam and more to do with African backwardness when it comes to the treatment and place of women.

True they may use Islam as a justification for it, but if it wasn't that they'd use something else.

Tyrrial

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Lets be honest this has less to do with Islam and more to do with African backwardness when it comes to the treatment and place of women.

True they may use Islam as a justification for it, but if it wasn't that they'd use something else.

That is utterly uninformed. Africa is a big place, i say this because with the way you describe it you may not be aware of it.
some countries in Africa are Muslim, many are not. It is also generally the case that women have a much worse time of it in countries where Islam is the prominent religion.

Your last sentence is offensive and racist. Suggesting that the continent of Africa is simply searching for an ideological tool for it to preform it's inevitable savagery.... who the hell do you think you are?

CerebralCortex

Tyrrial wrote: »

Your last sentence is offensive and racist. Suggesting that the continent of Africa is simply searching for an ideological tool for it to preform it's inevitable savagery.... who the hell do you think you are?

Did we read two different posts? I'm inclined to agree with the good Reverend because there was a simillar experience here.

Flamed Diving

Tyrrial wrote: »

That is utterly uninformed. Africa is a big place, i say this because with the way you describe it you may not be aware of it.
some countries in Africa are Muslim, many are not. It is also generally the case that women have a much worse time of it in countries where Islam is the prominent religion.

Your last sentence is offensive and racist. Suggesting that the continent of Africa is simply searching for an ideological tool for it to preform it's inevitable savagery.... who the hell do you think you are?

You are being a tad reactionary. Try to calm down and think.

DublinWriter

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Ah, we must must we show respect for religion.

FIFU

Flamed Diving

DublinWriter wrote: »

FIFU

Sorry, I don't speak abbreviated English.

Tyrrial

Flamed Diving wrote: »

You are being a tad reactionary. Try to calm down and think.

Generally if someone decides to accuse a continent i spent several years living on of being inherently evil i get "a tad reactionary"

Flamed Diving

Tyrrial wrote: »

Generally if someone decides to accuse a continent i spent several years living on of being inherently evil i get "a tad reactionary"

Oh, you're one of those 'I lived there, hence I am a leading expert' types.

Drat.

The inferences you are drawing, are false. But that's what happens when you jump to conclusions without using critical faculties.

Tyrrial

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Oh, you're one of those 'I lived there, hence I am a leading expert' types.

Drat.

The inferences you are drawing, are false. But that's what happens when you jump to conclusions without using critical faculties.

could you explain what i'm missing?

Flamed Diving

Tyrrial wrote: »

could you explain what i'm missing?

Suggesting that the continent of Africa is simply searching for an ideological tool for it to preform it's inevitable savagery...

Derived from:

Lets be honest this has less to do with Islam and more to do with African backwardness when it comes to the treatment and place of women.

True they may use Islam as a justification for it, but if it wasn't that they'd use something else.

Would it be racist of me to assert that pre-enlightenment European society was backward, and that the biblically-justified burning of witches was only a medium through which the zeitgeist channeled itself, and not sufficient (but necessary) to blame Christianity and the Bible?

Tyrrial

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Derived from:



Would it be racist of me to assert that pre-enlightenment European society was backward, and that the biblically-justified burning of witches was only a medium through which the zeitgeist channeled itself, and not sufficient (but necessary) to blame Christianity and the Bible?

Can't say i agree that a the longing to burn witches would have come without bible-bashers and so find it hard to accept that this treatment of women would have come along without the Islamic hard-liners.

I don't believe that in either case that the underlining savagery of the people was making these actions inevitable. I think it took the control and brain-washing of the people through religion to commit such horrors and that they would not have come about without without it.

Rev Hellfire

I'm willing to accept that perhaps backwards is not the correct term, rather uneducated and/or impoverished .
But other than that I believe the point stands.

Flamed Diving

Tyrrial wrote: »

Can't say i agree that a the longing to burn witches would have come without bible-bashers and so find it hard to accept that this treatment of women would have come along without the Islamic hard-liners.

But we see similar behaviour throughout human history, without the bible or the koran. How do you account for this? Is it all sufficiently explained by saying 'relgion done it'?

Tyrrial wrote: »

I don't believe that in either case that the underlining savagery of the people was making these actions inevitable. I think it took the control and brain-washing of the people through religion to commit such horrors and that they would not have come about without without it.

But we see savagery committed today, especially in war situations, where woman are beaten and raped by both invaders and locals. Humans have shown themselves to be more than capable of savagery, given the correct environment. Such environments tend to be ones where institutions are weak. Religion isn't always necessary. It is a chilling and unfortunate fact of our nature that humans will commit such acts, under the right conditions. One could argue that such conditions, such as the lack of institutions, are more... ripe in certain parts of Africa/Asia?

I wouldn't use the word 'savages', as you would. I would call it part of human nature.

GerB40

Fundamentalist islamic law is savage. In the wild, monkeys treat their children better than some muslim men treat their daughters. They give daughters away to old men who have wives already and they treat women like objects. A presidential candidate in saudi arabia tried to legalise rape for husbands. They're not as civilised as apes. BTW i know its just the minority who are like that but its still too much.

robindch

GerB40 wrote: »

They're not as civilised as apes.

User banned for an inexcusably inflammatory posting.

Religion -- especially in its fundamentalist or violent or misogynistic or homophobic forms -- demands study and understanding so that we can co-operate to remove it from society.

It does not demand unhinged moral outrage.

dlofnep

It's about time women started wearing skirts again!

Nah seriously though, that's disgraceful. How on earth this can still happen in 2009 is beyond me. Does Sharia law specifically cover women wearing pants? Like come on..

ChocolateSauce

Torturing someone based on how they dress is abominable under any circumstances. I certainly hope this kind of thing is on the decline instead of on the rise.

Rev Hellfire

dlofnep wrote: »

Does Sharia law specifically cover women wearing pants?

Apparently the defendant believes not, which is why she's pushed for the trial to go ahead.
It's really a case of society influencing the interpretation of the religion, rather than the other way around.