Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

PrivateEye

The pornography industry is probably one of the most diverse in the world. I dont see how one can have a one answer 'attitude to porn', when as an industry it ranges from underpaid women in Eastern Europe to something as glossy and worker-friendly as the Suicide Girls.

A feminist named Andrea Dworking wrote a book titled Pornography: Men Possessing Women where she argued that porn was central to the power-dynamics of the male/female relationship, and the entire industry was somehow commiting an 'act of violence' against women.

I don't buy that for a second. I've no doubt plenty of women who are more than happy with their lives have watched pornography and dont feel in any way degraded by my gender as a result of it. Providing the industry places a greater emphasis on the rights of its workers (because these women (and men) are workers remember, and face a lot more exploitation in parts of the world than any of us) I'm pretty meh to the whole thing.

A good arguement I seen made by a feminist site was that

Degrading is a subjective term. I find commercials in which women become orgasmic over soapsuds to be tremendously degrading. The bottom line is that every woman has the right to define what is degrading and liberating for herself.

Obviously there are borderlines, but I think what the pornography industry needs isn't to be shut down, but cleaned up.

ztoical

PrivateEye wrote: »

The pornography industry is probably one of the most diverse in the world. I dont see how one can have a one answer 'attitude to porn', when as an industry it ranges from underpaid women in Eastern Europe to something as glossy and worker-friendly as the Suicide Girls.

A feminist named Andrea Dworking wrote a book titled Pornography: Men Possessing Women where she argued that porn was central to the power-dynamics of the male/female relationship, and the entire industry was somehow commiting an 'act of violence' against women.

I don't buy that for a second. I've no doubt plenty of women who are more than happy with their lives have watched pornography and dont feel in any way degraded by my gender as a result of it. Providing the industry places a greater emphasis on the rights of its workers (because these women (and men) are workers remember, and face a lot more exploitation in parts of the world than any of us) I'm pretty meh to the whole thing.

Like you said the porn industry is very diverse and changes from country to country. I do find porns from certain cultures is degrading to women, like the infamous tentacle rape scenes from japan, which are a result of Japanese laws forbidding publishers and film makers to show penises. Rape comics and guides being sold in standard newsagents BUT it has to be looked in the context of the culture and if japanese women find themselves degraded by it then it is up to them to change it. If I thought porn produce in Ireland was degarding to women I would stop it or better yet make decent Irish porn

Again I say if people are going to talk about something promoting violence againist women and more importantly sexual violence againist women, violence in our media and glorifying war is what needs to be altered and reporting and pushining war rape crimes rather the sweeping them under the rug - everyone can talk about people killed during war but few talk about the millions of women who were gang raped by soilders on both sides during ww2 or the 'comfort women' kept by soilders. and more recent cases in eastern europe and africa.

Acacia

4leto wrote: »

I fast forward the sex to look at the story.

Watching Porn- you're doing it wrong.:P

4leto wrote: »

With all the internet sex in the future doctors will be tell couples who can't conceive, no you are meant to come inside the woman and not on her face.

I know the above was probably meant to be light-hearted, but in all seriousness, porn has been around for centuries in various guises, and the human race hasn't died out yet, and people still, funnily enough, actually know how to have sex correctly.

I honestly don't see what is so shocking about watching people having sex when it's something the entire population of the world does.

And I don't see how it's degrading to women unless she has been forced into doing it.

Why is it never thought to be degrading to the male porn stars or the men watching it? Whenever I hear these arguments, it's always "oh, those poor girls having sex for money!" , the male 'actors' are rarely mentioned.

Smartiesxxx

I don't c any prob with porn! Quite the opposite in fact. I get really turned on when I watch it with my bf. Not really into the hardcore stuff - not my scene but whatever floats ur boat. I don't understand y everything has to be such a big deal in this day and age!!!!!!!:cool:

irish_bob

Acacia wrote: »

Watching Porn- you're doing it wrong.:P



I know the above was probably meant to be light-hearted, but in all seriousness, porn has been around for centuries in various guises, and the human race hasn't died out yet, and people still, funnily enough, actually know how to have sex correctly.

I honestly don't see what is so shocking about watching people having sex when it's something the entire population of the world does.

And I don't see how it's degrading to women unless she has been forced into doing it.

Why is it never thought to be degrading to the male porn stars or the men watching it? Whenever I hear these arguments, it's always "oh, those poor girls having sex for money!" , the male 'actors' are rarely mentioned.

presumabley that attitude stems from the theory that men dont get emotional about sex , they are ready to fcuk on Q at all times , while this is not the case with all men , it is with me

missmaggs

like Chatterpillar, I wish I could be more open to the idea of porn, but I find that exterememly difficult. I think the issue is not with the porn itself, but rather what it portrays. As chatterpiller mentioned its usually skinny and bald blonde women sporting massive boobs. My body is completely different, I dont fit the 'ideal', and honestly i cant help it that watching it with my OH would make me feel extremely inadequate and undervalued. I mean,my boobs are practically non-existant, I have a big butt, big thighs (not fat, just BIG-genetics) , i dont have killer legs, so really i dont feel so hot when i watch standard porn. I cant help it, its just the way i feel. I think if it wasnt for all my insecurities, I wouldnt mind it half as much, but in a way the images of women constructed and circulated mainstream porn just exacerbate my insecurities.

Acacia

irish_bob wrote: »

presumabley that attitude stems from the theory that men dont get emotional about sex , they are ready to fcuk on Q at all times , while this is not the case with all men , it is with me

Yeah, that's probably it, and the idea that men get more 'excited' visually than women. It's not always the case though. :P

JC 2K3

Acacia wrote: »

Why is it never thought to be degrading to the male porn stars or the men watching it? Whenever I hear these arguments, it's always "oh, those poor girls having sex for money!" , the male 'actors' are rarely mentioned.

Probably the same reason that heterosexual male rape is not considered a big deal.

With the exclusion of homosexual acts, our culture is one where it is quietly thought that men cannot be degraded sexually, and yet female sexual degradation is seen as a huge issue.

tbh, I'm not sure if attitudes need to change to acknowledge that men can get equally sexually degraded, or to acknowledge female sexual degradation as less of a big deal.

ztoical

missmaggs wrote: »

like Chatterpillar, I wish I could be more open to the idea of porn, but I find that exterememly difficult. I think the issue is not with the porn itself, but rather what it portrays. As chatterpiller mentioned its usually skinny and bald blonde women sporting massive boobs. My body is completely different, I dont fit the 'ideal', and honestly i cant help it that watching it with my OH would make me feel extremely inadequate and undervalued. I mean,my boobs are practically non-existant, I have a big butt, big thighs (not fat, just BIG-genetics) , i dont have killer legs, so really i dont feel so hot when i watch standard porn. I cant help it, its just the way i feel. I think if it wasnt for all my insecurities, I wouldnt mind it half as much, but in a way the images of women constructed and circulated mainstream porn just exacerbate my insecurities.

Ah but that's only one type of porn your thinking of, people seem to be stuck on the american big plastic boobs, fake tan, overly white teeth, I've come to service your boiler o your naked lets shag type story porn or the internet honest these are real home movies of 'real' teens who aren't actually 30 with alot of botox in them internet porn. I linked to Jess Finks porn comics earlier in the thread and her work is always big ass, hugh tighs but sexy women, there is really stuff out there to cover everyones likes/interest/fetish. and since I used the word fetish everyone go read the greatest porn comic every- Fetish Man and just cus I feel like pushing more sexy art comics try sexy losers cus seriously everyone needs to have a sense of humor when it comes to sex.

Otis Driftwood

When ever I watch porn,its never the type that a few people have mentioned here ie pneumatic boobs and peroxide hair.I find that extremely boring.I would always go for the amateur stuff.I dunno,it just seems more "real" to me,therefore much more arousing than seeing a couple of perma tanned models going through the motions.Amateur porn FTW!

JC 2K3

Sexylosers is the greatest thing ever.

At a glance, I thought the other two comics you linked to were awful rubbish, but each to their own!

ztoical

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Sexylosers is the greatest thing ever.

At a glance, I thought the other two comics you linked to were awful rubbish, but each to their own!

rubbish in story or art or both? Can understand fetish man, it's very stylized both in story and art and I can see people loving or hating [I love it but I think you need to see Geoff the creator at one of the London fetish fairs to really see the witt of his stuff, keep saying he should write fetish man the opera] but I'd be interested as to why you'd like sexylosers but not jess finks work.

Latchy

moe_sizlak wrote: »

men are more attracted to women than vice versa , its common knowledge that women are much more bi-sexual than men , while the majority of straight men would rather die than be with a man , a large percentage of women have lesbian tendancies

What about the pop culture ? Elvis in his prime had women thrown themselfs at him left right and centre ,same with Beatlmania and Take that , were teens and twenty something women scream themselfs into a frenzy living out a fantasy of how they would like to spend some time alone with their idol or idols .

JC 2K3

ztoical wrote: »

rubbish in story or art or both? Can understand fetish man, it's very stylized both in story and art and I can see people loving or hating [I love it but I think you need to see Geoff the creator at one of the London fetish fairs to really see the witt of his stuff, keep saying he should write fetish man the opera] but I'd be interested as to why you'd like sexylosers but not jess finks work.

Well, for a start, comic strips are a form of art that I've never really been that into, although there are a few humourous webcomics which I love, Sexylosers being my favourite.

Didn't really like the art in Fetish Man and felt the stories were poorly executed/jokes not funny (in the handful I read at least).

Jess Fink's work is better than 'awful rubbish', so I'll take that back, but I don't see any parallels between it and sexylosers. Sexylosers is insanely funny and depraved, Jess Fink's stuff is artsy porn. It's well executed, but not really my thing.

ztoical

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well, for a start, comic strips are a form of art that I've never really been that into, although there are a few humourous webcomics which I love, Sexylosers being my favourite.

Yes it's great sexylosers has started updating again after such a massive gap, I was missing my Mikes left hand fix.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Jess Fink's work is better than 'awful rubbish', so I'll take that back, but I don't see any parallels between it and sexylosers. Sexylosers is insanely funny and depraved, Jess Fink's stuff is artsy porn. It's well executed, but not really my thing.

Might be worth checking her Time Travel comic "We can fix it" where she travels through time to fix bad sexual encounters in her past. I like it but I prefer the artsy porn style just as it's a style I relate to more and I would focus more on the art and less on writing as I'm artist, just personal preference.

JC 2K3

Yeah, I just noticed there're 2/3 comics on sexylosers I hadn't see before. Great stuff

irish_bob

nedtheshed wrote: »

When ever I watch porn,its never the type that a few people have mentioned here ie pneumatic boobs and peroxide hair.I find that extremely boring.I would always go for the amateur stuff.I dunno,it just seems more "real" to me,therefore much more arousing than seeing a couple of perma tanned models going through the motions.Amateur porn FTW!

i dont watch porn all that much but when i do i perfer the california fake boobs and blonde bimbo porn , i know its a fantasy and i know its unrealistic and thats why i like it , i find the amateur stuff too real and because of that i find it more dirty and grubby , i dont want to see ugly people screw , as michael cerra said in the movie SUPERBAD , i wana little production value here

moe_sizlak

Latchy wrote: »

What about the pop culture ? Elvis in his prime had women thrown themselfs at him left right and centre ,same with Beatlmania and Take that , were teens and twenty something women scream themselfs into a frenzy living out a fantasy of how they would like to spend some time alone with their idol or idols .

thats not sex , young girls barely in thier teens screaming at male pop stars is innocent in most cases , its the female equivelent of men shouting at football matches , does anyone seriously believe that WESTLIFE could inspire red hot lust in female fans

thats not in anyway about sex

ztoical

moe_sizlak wrote: »

thats not sex , young girls barely in thier teens screaming at male pop stars is innocent in most cases , its the female equivelent of men shouting at football matches , does anyone seriously believe that WESTLIFE could inspire red hot lust in female fans

thats not in anyway about sex

eh what about def lepoard admiting bringing screaming fans from the audience under the stag and having sex with them? hows that not about sex?

Acacia

moe_sizlak wrote: »

thats not sex , young girls barely in thier teens screaming at male pop stars is innocent in most cases , its the female equivelent of men shouting at football matches , does anyone seriously believe that WESTLIFE could inspire red hot lust in female fans

thats not in anyway about sex

I'm sorry, but you really don't seem to understand that teenage girls have sex drives as much as men do. It certainly is about sex in a lot of cases.

Westlife do inspire lust in females (not me particularly). So do lots of other men.

Latchy

moe_sizlak wrote: »

thats not sex , young girls barely in thier teens screaming at male pop stars is innocent in most cases , its the female equivelent of men shouting at football matches , does anyone seriously believe that WESTLIFE could inspire red hot lust in female fans

that's not in anyway about sex

Not talking about girls barely in their teens ,talking about 18 to 23 year olds and older .

Be it Westlife , Take That or Tom Jones ( who had thousends of pair's of knicker thrown at him on stage by women of all ages) ...that's lust .

brendansmith

I was watch some porn there the other day and I could feel my heart freezing. Not a good thing.

Acacia

brendansmith wrote: »

I was watch some porn there the other day and I could feel my heart freezing. Not a good thing.

Watch out for soul-burning too.

Otis Driftwood

irish_bob wrote: »

i dont watch porn all that much but when i do i perfer the california fake boobs and blonde bimbo porn , i know its a fantasy and i know its unrealistic and thats why i like it , i find the amateur stuff too real and because of that i find it more dirty and grubby , i dont want to see ugly people screw , as michael cerra said in the movie SUPERBAD , i wana little production value here

Using Superbad as a reference for any point you make automatically renders that point null and void.

FYI.

brendansmith

nedtheshed wrote: »

Using Superbad as a reference for any point you make automatically renders that point null and void.

FYI.

No it dosnt.

FYI

irish_bob

thiers a discussion about porn on another site , heres a link from that thread which may open some peoples eyes to what involvement in porn can do


http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2009/08/keep-your-daughter-off-pole.html

Latchy

Intresting article and statistics there Irish Bob and food for thought for anybody thinking it's one big happy scene with no casualties

lizzyvera

nedtheshed wrote: »

Dp you not think its a good thing that these people have a sexual outlet though?

Im not sure where the latter part of your post is coming from.

I do think it's a good thing they have an outlet, I just feel sorry for people who need it as an outlet. **** to porn is not as fulfilling as sex. That's why people think about real sex when they're **** to porn, and don't think about **** to porn when they're actually having sex. :rolleyes:

The latter part- other people were bringing up the abuse in the industry, I was just saying we all know there's abuse, but it's not to say that porn is immoral itself. I should have quoted.

I still don't think I'd like my OH using it. It would be so out of character. He has the most severe case of "eyes only for you" I have ever come across, even though I think he could be medically diagnosed as a nymphomaniac. I love it like that! Except the sheer numbers of times a day because of a few nasty kidney and bladder infections, occasional difficulty walking, bite marks, bruises etc, but other than that I love it! If he was regularly **** to porn it wouldn't be like that.

Fugly

I agree that there's abuse in pretty much every industry, I don't think anyone who likes porn, would deny that there is abuse in the porn industry.

Porn is not simply enjoyed by those who aren't having sex. I'm very happy, you are sexually satisfied with your OH and your sexual life, Lizzy, but that's you.

I have used porn with partners in the past and it added to the experience for us, just as toys/games etc did, that in no way means that "regular" sex with them wasn't amazing it was on both physical and emotional level. I have always regarded porn as a tool, not a necessity.

I think as a "tool" it isn't negative or positive it's how its treated, i.e healthily or unhealthily, if it's been used to replace human contact in a very severe way, clearly that unhealthy, but the same applies to the net/games/drink/drugs /food.

However if a person is not emotionally ready/responsible for a sexual relationship I think it can be used to relieve the sexual tension, rather than them being frustrated/ depressed or doing something (someone) they later regret.

And I'm not sure If you're trying to sound/be patronising to people who aren't having sex right now, but it is how your post make you seem.

oceanclub

shellyboo wrote: »

Leaving all that aside, in the world of the Daily Mail, apparently women don't watch porn at all!

Um, well, it _is_ the Daily Mail you're talking about here:

http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/

P.

lizzyvera

Fugly wrote: »

I think as a "tool" it isn't negative or positive it's how its treated, i.e healthily or unhealthily, if it's been used to replace human contact in a very severe way, clearly that unhealthy, but the same applies to the net/games/drink/drugs /food.

I'm just saying it would damage my relationship if my OH was using it, and that it's not as good as real human contact... I never said it was immoral or unhealthy. I wouldn't be averse to us trying it together, maybe some day, but if he was secretly **** at the computer instead of hassling me, I'd feel dejected.

I have a very good friend who's relationship needs porn and swinging because the girl he absolutely adores and loves is not as randy as him, as happens sometimes. Another in the same situation cheated. I think using porn for regular relief is better than that.

I thought the original question was "how do you feel about your man using it?"

Fugly

Sorry, my post wasn't very clear, I wasn't directing that part at you, just at some other posts who were discussing porn in those terms.

I can understand why you may feel dejected if you're with your OH and he passes you up to go to online for some porn. I know in a relationship, there are times when if partners live apart/differ sex drives and porn can fill in the gap, but I know sometimes for me, I have (rarely) wanted porn over sex with a person, laziness mainly. :rolleyes:

I thought the original question was "how do you feel about your man using it?"

It is but these threads tend to wander.

As for cheating for not getting enough, sounds like an ass of a friend {no offense},IMO sounds like a cop out from a coward.

lizzyvera

He's not even a wanker, he's worse.

Fugly

, lol. I like that.

shellyboo

This thread hurts my brain now. I've created a monster.


Anyone else really not like porn? We've got a suprising number of people who are ok with it, I'm sure there's dissenters lurking somewhere.

Dragan

shellyboo wrote: »

Anyone else really not like porn? We've got a suprising number of people who are ok with it, I'm sure there's dissenters lurking somewhere.

I'm not a huge fan of porn. Nothing to do with the actual ****ing itself....normally i am all about such shenanigans.

Porn is boring. Plain and simple. Beyond the interesting factor of having people having sex it, it's all the same. The camera angles are the same, the positons are the same, the settings are the same. The tired interpretation of bondage, hardcore, S&M.....it's all the ****ing same.

Seriously, if someones sex life was that samey they would very rapidly move on.

Now, don't get me wrong, i understand as a bloke i am merely supposed to catch even a suggestion of sex and lose all my mental faculties, inbuilt preferences and self respect....but i don't.

It's ****ing dull.

Make your own.

shellyboo

Dragan wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of porn. Nothing to do with the actual ****ing itself....normally i am all about such shenanigans.

Porn is boring. Plain and simple. Beyond the interesting factor of having people having sex it, it's all the same. The camera angles are the same, the positons are the same, the settings are the same. The tired interpretation of bondage, hardcore, S&M.....it's all the ****ing same.

Seriously, if someones sex life was that samey they would very rapidly move on.

Now, don't get me wrong, i understand as a bloke i am merely supposed to catch even a suggestion of sex and loss all my mental faculties, inbuilt preferences and self respect....but i don't.

It's ****ing dull.

Make your own.

Do you not like watching others' home-made stuff then? Or do you feel the same about that?

On a tangent, I don't think I could ever make my own. Well, I wouldn't mind *making* it, but I don't think I could watch it back. I'd be scared it would put me off ever having sex again.

Dragan

shellyboo wrote: »

Do you not like watching others' home-made stuff then? Or do you feel the same about that?

Other amateur is at least interesting, because it's actually people and they are actually having the sex they like to have. So it has that going for it.

shellyboo

Dragan wrote: »

Other amateur is at least interesting, because it's actually people and they are actually having the sex they like to have. So it has that going for it.

Indeed I wouldn't bother watching produced, scripted porn really. It i indeed very boring.

d'Oracle

shellyboo wrote: »

This thread hurts my brain now. I've created a monster.

Don't be so hard on yourself.
Its an interesting read.

I think you did well by starting it.

SeekUp

I'm fairly indifferent towards porn. Haven't seen a whole lot, so I wouldn't really speak to the entire industry, but it's not really something I'd ever really think of to watch, alone or with someone else.

As such, I don't really know what I think of my OH watching it. I suppose I wouldn't be thrilled -- not because it was porn, but because I'd much rather us do something that we'd both really enjoy and be into.

amacachi

shellyboo wrote: »

Indeed I wouldn't bother watching produced, scripted porn really. It i indeed very boring.

Also the fact that pretty much all porn that has a director has the exact same people in it. They might have different names but the women are all plastic-breasted blondes and the guys are all well-built angry bastards. :pac:

ChocolateSauce

My missus gets upset with me if I watch porn without her.

Raze_them_all

amacachi wrote: »

Also the fact that pretty much all porn that has a director has the exact same people in it. They might have different names but the women are all plastic-breasted blondes and the guys are all well-built angry bastards. :pac:

Ron Jeremy that man is sculpted by the gods :P

chester222

I am not into porn at all, and I hate my bf watching it, although my views have changed some-what reading all these. I havnt had much experience with porn. Maby its just me, but i feel that he will still be thinking of the porn(women) while having sex, you know!

Fugly

i feel that he will still be thinking of the porn(women) while having sex, you know!

I know how you feel, but in fairness, without porn, he could be thinking about people he knows, ex's. celebrities etc. But he is with you and clearly wants to have sex with you!

You'll also notice the vast majority of men(and women) will say that porn hasn't got a patch on sex with their OH.:D

chester222

Thanks Fugly Thinking of it like that... sapose, might make a difference watching it with him :P

Novella

Would not be bothered by my bf watching porn. As many posters have already said, it is perfect healthy for one to explore their sexuality etc. I would not consider a guy watching porn to mean that he felt unfulfilled by his partner or anything like that at all.

As for the women don't watch porn, that is bullsh*t!

On the topic of porn making men think that women should do X and Y in the bedroom, I don't really think that's true. A lot of things in porn are exagerrated and I think men understand that and no one should ever feel forced into doing something they are not comfortable with just because their OH says "Oh, but it happens in porn all the time".

shellyboo

chester222 wrote: »

I am not into porn at all, and I hate my bf watching it, although my views have changed some-what reading all these. I havnt had much experience with porn. Maby its just me, but i feel that he will still be thinking of the porn(women) while having sex, you know!

Of course he wouldn't! Why would he when he has the real thing right in front of him?

I think where a lot of women go wrong is assuming that porn is the ideal for all men, and real women are second best... that's not the case at all. It's just a fantasy. And there's a huge difference between what you'd like in a fantasy and what you want in real life.

I think my vibrator analogy really holds true. Fun to distract yourself with, but not a patch on the real thing.

chester222 wrote: »

Thanks Fugly Thinking of it like that... sapose, might make a difference watching it with him :P

Try it, at least You never know, you might enjoy it!

1sittingduck

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I consider pornography degrading to both the participants and the viewers because it is the industrialisation or commodification of the human person's most intimate self! I don't think that body and spirit (or heart or soul or whatever you might call it) are separate entities. I think that whatever is done to your body affects your spirit. If anyone I loved became a porn star I would be very sad and worried, even if they said they were happy. To have filmed sex in public for money is simply not, as far as I can see, what we were made for. To participate through masturbation in it is to be implicit in saying that it's ok for human beings just to consider themselves meatbags for moneymaking.

I completely agree with everything said by neuro-praxis. Well put!