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Ireland accepts two Guantánamo inmates

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  • 29-07-2009 9:05pm
    #1
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭


    Ireland will accept two inmates from Guantánamo Bay, offering them permanent residency rights and allowing them to work and move freely, the Irish justice minister said today.

    Dermot Ahern confirmed the detainees, understood to be of Uzbek origin, would be accepted into the republic. He added that while the pair were not being admitted as refugees within the meaning of the Geneva conventions, he intended to adhere to the norms of official procedure in respecting their privacy rights.

    Ahern said there would be no public disclosure of personal information, family situations or details of the arrangements for travel to Ireland. The transfer of the detainees is expected within the next couple of months.

    The move is part of negotiations between Europe and the US to resettle about 50 Guantánamo detainees.

    Amnesty International Ireland welcomed the terms under which the pair were being taken in. "After years of imprisonment and possible torture they will need time and support to adjust to life outside of prison," said its director, Colm O'Gorman.

    Glad to see this shocking abuse of human rights of a hellhole closed down. Happy to see these innocent men to have a chance to live a good life here in Ireland.


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    #2
    xp90
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 583 ✭✭✭xp90


    and why not, lets give them an irish welcome!


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    #3
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    xp90 wrote: »
    and why not, lets give them an irish welcome!

    ..though a few pints would probably be inappropriate, all things considered. Still, sure they can have a club orange and we'll have one for them.


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    #4
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Just don't mention the jihad.


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    #5
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    mike65 wrote: »
    Just don't mention the jihad.

    who is to say these people werent just snatched of the street, wrong place wrong time

    they were never given a proper trial and a good chunk of their life was stolen from them so Mr. Bush can wave a stick about evil terrorists, tho alot of people know that the whole post 9'11 years was like a badly scripted theater drama, whos main aim was to line the pockets of few and cause misery to many


    these people need to be welcomed and given counseling

    not only that but they are potential victims and witnesses of war crimes perpetuated by few people who are still walking around


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    #6
    solice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭solice


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    who is to say these people werent just snatched of the street, wrong place wrong time

    they were never given a proper trial and a good chunk of their life was stolen from them so Mr. Bush can wave a stick about evil terrorists, tho alot of people know that the whole post 9'11 years was like a badly scripted theater drama, whos main aim was to line the pockets of few and cause misery to many


    these people need to be welcomed and given counseling

    not only that but they are potential victims and witnesses of war crimes perpetuated by few people who are still walking around

    I think it was said in jest ala Basil Fawlty, "Dont mention the war"....


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    #7
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    They're most likely the victims of the reward issued in wake of the invasion. Any foriegner was grabbed and handed over for 2000 USD a head.


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    #8
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    don't mention shannon


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    #9
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    don't mention shannon

    indeed, probably be a bit of deja vu when they arrive and see all the troops!!


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    #10
    diverdriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    Wow, you guys are so welcoming. Why don't you invite them over for tea and biccies and let them move into your houses. Those poor guys were probably simply backpacking in Afghanistan when those Americans arrived and locked them up for no reason at all.

    But wait, if they're so innocent. Why can't they go home. Oh dear, doubts have entered my mind. No I should be glad that 'these innocent men to have a chance to live a good life here in Ireland.'

    I also hope Special Branch don't watch them or otherwise harass them as they begin their new innocent lives here in this paradise.


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    #11
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    diverdriver wrote: »
    Wow, (....)this paradise.

    I'd suggest you look up a bit about Uzbekistan and what happens to people the Government there disapproves of.


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    #12
    xp90
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 583 ✭✭✭xp90


    diverdriver wrote: »
    Wow, you guys are so welcoming. Why don't you invite them over for tea and biccies and let them move into your houses. Those poor guys were probably simply backpacking in Afghanistan when those Americans arrived and locked them up for no reason at all.

    But wait, if they're so innocent. Why can't they go home. Oh dear, doubts have entered my mind. No I should be glad that 'these innocent men to have a chance to live a good life here in Ireland.'

    I also hope Special Branch don't watch them or otherwise harass them as they begin their new innocent lives here in this paradise.


    Did mick collins die for you to be so ungrateful bout your freedom? and not realise the oppression of others? Innocent until proven guilty..................and these guys have never been charged with anything


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    #13
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    The Irish Independent headlined this with shock figures of €430,000 to have Garda protection. I'm surprised no ones starting bitching about that yet. I'm still unsure as to why they need protection though...the Indo never says.


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    #14
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Seeing as they're being brought in incognito with no publicity as to where they'll be...I'd say its Sindo rabble rabble.


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    #15
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    sovtek wrote: »
    The Irish Independent headlined this with shock figures of €430,000 to have Garda protection. I'm surprised no ones starting bitching about that yet. I'm still unsure as to why they need protection though...the Indo never says.

    remember the Romanians being mobbed recently in Belfast?


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    #16
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Some of the opinions on this are akin to Nazi Germany, when the Jewish people were oppressed and looking for new homes. Nobody wanted to welcome them.

    We now have a chance to welcome oppressed people to our country, to have a chance to see the truly best in the Western world. These men are innocent, and we are right to welcome them.


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    #17
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Some of the opinions on this are akin to Nazi Germany, when the Jewish people were oppressed and looking for new homes. Nobody wanted to welcome them.

    We now have a chance to welcome oppressed people to our country, to have a chance to see the truly best in the Western world. These men are innocent, and we are right to welcome them.

    *mutters* godwinblahblahblah *mutters*


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    #18
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    remember the Romanians being mobbed recently in Belfast?

    Is that the key reason? I wasn't sure. I mean is it that contentious that they are coming here?


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    #19
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    sovtek wrote: »
    Is that the key reason? I wasn't sure. I mean is it that contentious that they are coming here?

    I have to say I am not really bothered either way about this. Its only 2 people and we have a chance to extend a welcoming hand to some people who have been treated very badly by an oppresive regime.

    I do however wonder how much of the protection will be about keeping an eye on them just in case they are not as innocent as is claimed. Just a thought


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    #20
    opo
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭opo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    We now have a chance to welcome oppressed people to our country

    Is this meant to be a novelty or something? Did you stop reading newspapers when 10,000+ so called "refugees" were arriving annually, not so long ago?
    dlofnep wrote: »
    to have a chance to see the truly best in the Western world.

    What on earth does this mean?
    dlofnep wrote: »
    These men are innocent,

    Yes, your honour. Better not let them go home so.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    and we are right to welcome them.

    Whether we are right to welcome them or not is irrelevant. On arrival here there will be no red carpet or ticker tape parade. They will be granted a right to reside here and face the same struggles and disappointments as anyone else. Overnight celibrity status is far from guaranteed and I expect them to feel they have got the better part of this deal and be grateful and respectful - not you or anyone else.


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    #21
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    remember the Romanians being mobbed recently in Belfast?
    Pretty sure the loyalists would be more afraid of ex camp xray prisoners, then they were of unarmed wannabee-refugees.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Some of the opinions on this are akin to Nazi Germany, when the Jewish people were oppressed and looking for new homes. Nobody wanted to welcome them.
    The Jews didn't have a habit of killing people. It'd be like capturing some of the SS, and then releasing them if they thought that the SS were nice people, incapable of harming others.

    =-=

    Still love the way Obama u-turned

    it was: I will close Guantánamo soon

    Obama gets into office. Sees that some of the "safe" ones went back to become terrorists when the were freed, and others that are still in the can are dangerous.

    suddenly "now" turns into "soon", into "6 months"...


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    #22
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    the_syco wrote: »
    The Jews didn't have a habit of killing people. It'd be like capturing some of the SS, and then releasing them if they thought that the SS were nice people, incapable of harming others.

    So you have proof these guys kill people then or a part of the Taliban or Al Qaeda? Care to share this information with the rest of us? Also, how did you come by this information, when the US government could not find any proof of wrong doing on there part?


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    #23
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    the_syco wrote: »
    The Jews didn't have a habit of killing people. It'd be like capturing some of the SS, and then releasing them if they thought that the SS were nice people, incapable of harming others.

    Are you saying that these two men have a habit of killing people?


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    #24
    c montgomery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    But what about this and what about that!!!!

    Your a racist, your too liberal!!!!!!!

    Enough of this bickering.

    Bottom line is we are accepting 2 xtra people into the country who will be a drain on our resources at this difficult economic time.

    The americans should be paying us to take them. Then again maybe they are. Maybe there will be no more scare tacticts about our corporate tax rate.


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    #25
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    the_syco wrote: »

    Still love the way Obama u-turned

    it was: I will close Guantánamo soon

    Obama has uturned on a lot of things...its probably going to be a one termer for him.
    Obama gets into office. Sees that some of the "safe" ones went back to become terrorists when the were freed, and others that are still in the can are dangerous.

    suddenly "now" turns into "soon", into "6 months"...

    This sounds like a Cheney spin point and I've yet to see it credibly backed up with evidence. It's kinda like his other spin point that torturing people has saved lives.
    Oh and being kidnapped and illegally removed from the country to be incarcerated without charge with a little tortured might turn the most peaceful and law abiding into a terrorist.


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    #26
    diverdriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    The simple reality is that we have no business taking these people in. Probably it's a sop to Obama, nothing more.

    Maybe these guys are innocent, maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe it was all a mistake and they'll settle down living off social welfare. That's a lot of bloody maybes.

    Several released Guantanamo ilumni, 'innocent men' all have gone on to carry out terrorist acts and at least one suicide bombing. Being released doesn't make you 'innocent' it might just mean there's no good evidence. Even an 'oppressive' regime as the USA has trouble convicting men against whom there is no evidence against them.

    It's fascinating the way several of immediately jumped and said
    Happy to see these innocent men to have a chance to live a good life here in Ireland.
    who is to say these people werent just snatched of the street, wrong place wrong time

    they were never given a proper trial and a good chunk of their life was stolen from them so Mr. Bush can wave a stick about evil terrorists,
    these people need to be welcomed and given counseling
    They're most likely the victims of the reward issued in wake of the invasion. Any foriegner was grabbed and handed over for 2000 USD a head.
    Wow, I know there's a presumption of innocence, but these guys must be super innocent.

    And XP90
    Did mick collins die for you to be so ungrateful bout your freedom? and not realise the oppression of others? Innocent until proven guilty..................and these guys have never been charged with anything
    Sure I'm grateful for my freedom. I don't take it for granted at all. But it needs to be defended. There are people on these boards who would glady take it away. Apologists for terrorists abound. I have more than a suspicion that these individuals will despise our freedom and want nothing more than to end it. I hope we don't regret this gesture.


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    #27
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    the_syco wrote: »
    Still love the way Obama u-turned

    it was: I will close Guantánamo soon

    Obama gets into office. Sees that some of the "safe" ones went back to become terrorists when the were freed, and others that are still in the can are dangerous.

    suddenly "now" turns into "soon", into "6 months"...

    Any evidence?

    Especially that they are going back to terrorism. You sure they were terrorists to being with eh?

    Maybe they were turned against the US from you know being illegally detained!


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    #28
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    diverdriver wrote: »
    Maybe these guys are innocent

    They are.
    diverdriver wrote: »
    maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    They were in the right place alright, just picked up by the wrong people.
    diverdriver wrote: »
    Maybe it was all a mistake and they'll settle down living off social welfare. That's a lot of bloody maybes.

    Typical scaremongering.
    diverdriver wrote: »
    Several released Guantanamo ilumni, 'innocent men' all have gone on to carry out terrorist acts and at least one suicide bombing.

    That doesn't mean that they are all guilty and has nothing to do with the men in question.
    diverdriver wrote: »
    Being released doesn't make you 'innocent' it might just mean there's no good evidence.

    You are innocent until proved guilty. That's how law works. These men didn't even receive a trial to see if they were innocent or guilty.

    diverdriver wrote: »
    It's fascinating the way several of immediately jumped and said Wow, I know there's a presumption of innocence, but these guys must be super innocent.

    No, it's fascinating how many people consider them guilty when they haven't had a trial.
    diverdriver wrote: »
    Apologists for terrorists abound.

    Show me proof that these men are terrorists.


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    #29
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    diverdriver wrote: »
    Several released Guantanamo ilumni, 'innocent men' all have gone on to carry out terrorist acts.

    Well which is it?

    Several of the released men or all. Thats as bad as a tabloid news paper TBH.


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    #30
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    sovtek wrote: »
    The Irish Independent headlined this with shock figures of €430,000 to have Garda protection. I'm surprised no ones starting bitching about that yet. I'm still unsure as to why they need protection though...the Indo never says.

    why would theese guys need protection , who are they , thier of no importance


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    #31
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Some of the opinions on this are akin to Nazi Germany, when the Jewish people were oppressed and looking for new homes. Nobody wanted to welcome them.

    We now have a chance to welcome oppressed people to our country, to have a chance to see the truly best in the Western world. These men are innocent, and we are right to welcome them.

    You know these men.??

    What were they doing in Afghanistan, on a birdwatching expedition.

    How do you know they are innocent?
    .


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