Cadet intake; 30 army and 12 naval

Lockstep

I thought this may be of interest to the Military forum;

Defence Forces to take in cadets

Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea has secured permission for an intake of Defence Forces cadets this year despite the moratorium on public sector recruitment, which includes the Defence Forces.
Plans will proceed immediately for an intake of 30 Army and 12 Naval cadetships. Cadets are trainee officers.

The decision to take in the 32 new personnel follows talks between Mr O’Dea and Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan.

Cadet recruitment had been suspended along with all other recruitment to the Defence Forces. The decision on the cadets has no bearing on the moratorium relating to other ranks.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0730/1224251671378.html

p1akuw47h5r3it

Is 30 usually the number they take in?

tribulus

35 army cadets were taken in last year.

Poccington

****ing ridiculous decision.

We need new Enlisted troops much more than we need new Officers.

neilled

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Is 30 usually the number they take in?

Between 30 and 45 would seem to be the norm based on the information given in the annual reports.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Poccington wrote: »

****ing ridiculous decision.

We need new Enlisted troops much more than we need new Officers.

Jeez I tot they wud sortof go Hand in Hand... What's the pt in havin new officers if they've noone to command?

Delta Kilo

I think the reason for taking Officers over troops was for a few reasons.

Firstly, I was told before that Officers always get priority because it takes 15 months to train them, whereas a private is 28 weeks, so if they don't take in officers, there could be a glut that would take a while to remedy if there wasn't some in training.

Secondly, when the budget was coming loads of people in the public service that could retire did because they feared their lump sum was going to be taxed, which would have meant they would lose about €20,000 so loads went before the budget. So apparently, a lot of Officers (who would have been receiving substantial pension lump sums) left.

Pride is also a lot of it. It looks bad for the country and lowers morale within the DF if there is no recruitment for a long period of time. The people in the Cadet College would have nothing to do. I don't think there has ever been a year where Cadets were not taken in in the Defence Forces.

Tobias Freezing Sub wrote:

What's the pt in havin new officers if they've noone to command?

I don't think there is any fear of that. Last I heard the DF was over-staffed by about a thousand people, plenty there to command.

Nothing on military.ie yet. Anyone any info on when the competition is going to begin?

minidazzler

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I don't think there is any fear of that. Last I heard the DF was over-staffed by about a thousand people, plenty there to command.

Nothing on military.ie yet. Anyone any info on when the competition is going to begin?

True, but alot of that overstaffing happens to be officers.

Poccington

Most of our Units are under manned and the DF got a chance to have a little break from the freeze and they made an absolute balls of it.

For that Cadet Class we could've easily gotten 2 Recruit Platoons maybe even 3 pushed out into the Units. Far more Enlisted troops went on their ticket cause of the rumours of their grat getting taxed than Officers did, in fact I'd say the number of Officers suddenly retiring would have been quite low. Units are screaming out for extra troops and the DF made to choice to look after the lads once again.

As for morale, go into a Unit and tell one of the lads that he has 7 or 8 duties this month but it's ok cause in 15 months time the Unit is gonna get 2 new Lt's that won't know their heads from their arses. Then go ahead and ask him how his morale is.

Local-womanizer

I never heard about the DF being overstaffed by 1000 members.I thought that was the number recommeded be let cut by An bord Snip nua as a money saver

Delta Kilo

Where I got that info was at a careers day in Athlone Barracks last November. A Commandant gave a talk on the role of the DF and how it works etc. He talked about the recruitment freeze and he said that there is actually a law somewhere buried in the constitution that states that the DF should be no greater than 10,500 personnel. The current figure is close to 11,500. The limit is something to do with neutrality or something. This also includes RDF:o

Apparently, early 90's there was a recruitment freeze for ~2 years and it is regarded as the worst time in Irish history for the DF. There was no investment or anything in it and morale was low so they don't want such a situation to arise again.

Poccington wrote:

Most of our Units are under manned and the DF got a chance to have a little break from the freeze and they made an absolute balls of it.

I thought everywhere was packed, with some of the Barracks closing etc. I think the break was only given because it was a cadet class. It wasn't an option of "2 platoons or 30 Cadets, Mr. Earley, your pick". It was only given because it was a Cadet intake.

concussion

You must have misunderstood the Commandant.
The strenght of the PDF, exclusive of the RDF, on 31/12/08 was 10,408.
https://www.cahill-printers.ie/Debates/Xml/30/DAL20090204A.PDF

The establishment of the PDF is 10,500 with an allowance for an extra 350 in training
http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/D/0668/D.0668.200811260127.html

The PDF had an approximate strength of 11,500 before the White Paper of 2000. The RDF is approximately 7,500 on paper with 4,500 effectives as of 2008.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Apparently, early 90's there was a recruitment freeze for ~2 years and it is regarded as the worst time in Irish history for the DF. There was no investment or anything in it and morale was low so they don't want such a situation to arise again..

Morale in the Defence Forces is worse than it was in the 90's, far worse because adding to the cut backs is uncertainty - we just haven't a clue where the hatchet is going to drop next & adding another 30 officer cadets is just adding salt to the wound for the enlisted man & woman.

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I thought everywhere was packed, with some of the Barracks closing etc.

You have got to be joking, I dare say there's not one unit up to strenght in the DF.

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Firstly, I was told before that Officers always get priority because it takes 15 months to train them, whereas a private is 28 weeks, so if they don't take in officers, there could be a glut that would take a while to remedy if there wasn't some in training.

Thats half the truth and was applicable back in the late sixty's and early 70's.... and the rest is PM'd to Poc, sorry...

neilled

concussion wrote: »

You must have misunderstood the Commandant.
The strenght of the PDF, exclusive of the RDF, on 31/12/08 was 10,408.
https://www.cahill-printers.ie/Debates/Xml/30/DAL20090204A.PDF

The establishment of the PDF is 10,500 with an allowance for an extra 350 in training
http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/D/0668/D.0668.200811260127.html

The PDF had an approximate strength of 11,500 before the White Paper of 2000. The RDF is approximately 7,500 on paper with 4,500 effectives as of 2008.

Its not in the constitution, however the government of the day can pass legislation stating what size the Defence Forces are. This is the authorized strength.

superref

Poccington wrote: »

Most of our Units are under manned and the DF got a chance to have a little break from the freeze and they made an absolute balls of it.

For that Cadet Class we could've easily gotten 2 Recruit Platoons maybe even 3 pushed out into the Units. Far more Enlisted troops went on their ticket cause of the rumours of their grat getting taxed than Officers did, in fact I'd say the number of Officers suddenly retiring would have been quite low. Units are screaming out for extra troops and the DF made to choice to look after the lads once again.

As for morale, go into a Unit and tell one of the lads that he has 7 or 8 duties this month but it's ok cause in 15 months time the Unit is gonna get 2 new Lt's that won't know their heads from their arses. Then go ahead and ask him how his morale is.

Poccington your bang on mate its the same in all units sure when they get commissoned as 2nd lts they cant serve overseas they r no use to use wheras after finishing recruit training you can be on the plane to chad the next week !!!!!!!!!!

concussion

neilled wrote: »

Its not in the constitution, however the government of the day can pass legislation stating what size the Defence Forces are. This is the authorized strength.

I didn't say anything about the constitution.

Poccington

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I thought everywhere was packed, with some of the Barracks closing etc. I think the break was only given because it was a cadet class. It wasn't an option of "2 platoons or 30 Cadets, Mr. Earley, your pick". It was only given because it was a Cadet intake.

Lol @ Everywhere being packed. As Mak has already said, you'd be hard pressed to find a single Unit in the DF that is at full strength.

I know they weren't given a choice between Recruit Platoons or a Cadet Class but they certainly weren't just offered a Cadet Class as a token of good will from the Government. They actively pushed for a Cadet Class to be taken in this year so in turn, they actively pursued something that there's absolutely no need for in comparison to our need for boots on the ground. Once again, it's a case of the DF looking after the lads and **** all the Enlisted riff raff.

neilled

concussion wrote: »

I didn't say anything about the constitution.

Appologies, an earlier poster mentioned the constitution, not yourself, I was just trying to elaborate on your post!

p1akuw47h5r3it

superref wrote: »

Poccington your bang on mate its the same in all units sure when they get commissoned as 2nd lts they cant serve overseas they r no use to use wheras after finishing recruit training you can be on the plane to chad the next week !!!!!!!!!!

Why is this???

How long do u have to wait to serve overseas

tribulus

At a guess I'd say it's because they're non-graduates and have 3/4 years of university ahead.

superref

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Why is this???

How long do u have to wait to serve overseas

you just can serve overseas as a 2nd lt you have to be a full lt,depends how long it takes you to get promoted

Lockstep

I think the reason behind it was that cadet training involves both juniors and seniors (for things like riot training etc), you'd need both.

Secondly, you'd just have a load of cadet trainers with feck all to do.

Poccington

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I think the reason behind it was that cadet training involves both juniors and seniors (for things like riot training etc), you'd need both.

Secondly, you'd just have a load of cadet trainers with feck all to do.

They don't need both for things like Riot Training etc. if they need support they could just ask one of the Units for a few bods, like any normal training Unit does.

As for people from the Cadet School being left with nothing to do, throw them back into the Units and I'm sure there'll be plenty for them to do.

newby.204

kickout, it has nothing to do with ncos who were training the cadet classes having nothing to do, its just the commisioned ranks looking after the commisioned ranks end of, the shear cost of bringing in this class will run into millions, when they are commisioned there collective salaries will run run upward of €900,000 in the first year, and thats without all the cushy allowances officers afford themselves.

concussion

What cushy allowances would these be?

newby.204

If your enlisted you already know, if your commisioned I'm not hanging meself

concussion

Go on, enlighten me...

The cost of training a few platoons of private soldiers and their pay would be comparable. However the army will get at least 10 years service out of nearly every officer and about 15 for most of them before the career path gets tight for the Comdt. to Lt. Col. promotion. A lot of privates will be gone after their 5 year contract.