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Sinn Fein is the NI's richest party

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13

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    #62
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Why do you need an answer to those questions when you know what I said to be correct?.

    I don't know that all of what you said is correct, or indeed the significance or point of some of your remarks.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    I made my points and I stand by them.

    You made a number of claims - you should be able to expand upon them, clarify them and back them up.


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    #63
    Can'tseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Can'tseeme


    Terrontress wrote: »
    No it isn't

    I know people within the party very well and what you're talking is the usual mud throwing b*ll*cks you hear, to try and discredit the party.

    They wouldn't be sharing power with unionists in the north, attending meetings in Downing St, getting invites to Washington or sitting on policing boards in the north if they were involved in the crap your claiming.


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    #64
    Bob Z
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Bob Z


    Terrontress wrote: »
    No it isn't

    Terrontress If SF were up to all this then surely they would be hiding their money away? not making it obvious how rich they are?


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    #65
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    DoireNod wrote: »
    How are Sinn Féin ok with 'killing, bank robberies, selling items that glorify violence and murder '........? I'm curious as to how you've come to this conclusion.

    Check out the front-page photo on http://www.irishtimes.com

    And give me an example of ANY other party or ANY other TD who would call to pick up despised criminals and Garda killers.

    i] Yes, Bertie Ahern gives scum State Funerals, but that's a topic for a different thread, and about different fund-raising activities [/i


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    #66
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Odd that you only rebuked one of the two accusations ?

    Not really, the IRA did indeed rob banks to fund their campaign, but they didn't sell drugs.
    Also, in the interests of discussion (and enlightening us who don't know things) could you back that statement up with facts ?

    You want me to provide proof of a negative, you're a clever man, and obviously know that that isn't possible. For instance "proving" the IRA "didn't retain weapons" would be an impossible task. What I will say is that Republicans are well recognised in Dublin and other cities as being on the coal-face of combatting the heroin epidemic. This is the reason why Republicans managed to establish a political base in deprived urban areas. As community based organisations the IRA and Sinn Féin depended on ordinary people for support and sustanance, something they wouldnt have got if they were flogging smack to children. The fact of the matter is the the IRA et al have always been explicitly anti-drugs and those who traffic in them.
    Yes, it's unfair if there's an element of "under suspicion until proven innocent", but given the things that they ARE ok with (killing, bank robberies, selling items that glorify violence and murder, etc) I think it's understandable if it appears to the neutral observer that they may not have a problem with other objectionable "fundraising" activities.

    There is a big difference with robbing banks (what the IRA has done since its inception in 1917 odd) and selling heroin. Big difference indeed, while you may have trouble believing there was such a line is immaterial, the fact is that that line existed firmly.


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    #67
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Check out the front-page photo on http://www.irishtimes.com

    And give me an example of ANY other party or ANY other TD who would call to pick up despised criminals and Garda killers.

    I] Yes, Bertie Ahern gives scum State Funerals, but that's a topic for a different thread, and about different fund-raising activities [/I
    Sinn Féin, the political party, did not call to pick up these men. Martin Ferris did.

    Can you answer this?
    DoireNod wrote: »
    Do you think the same of the Irish governments and other such organisations, who have and continue to glorify the Easter Rising of 1916? There were murders, bank robberies and various otherwise 'unlawful' acts involved in that. Indeed, had there not been, there would be no Ireland as we know it today.


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    #68
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Can you answer this?

    Do I really have to ?

    When's the last time you saw an FF or FG running around at a 1916 commemoration with a "we won! we f**ked the brits over" t-shirt ? :rolleyes:

    Plus - as has been stated MILLIONS OF TIMES, once people prove themselves as being rid of violence, THEN the healing can start.

    If FF or FG had suggested that murdering a Garda was OK - as recently as the local elections - and campaigned to have them released, or called to pick them up from jail, or whatever, we would STILL doubt them.

    But they didn't.

    90-odd years ago versus 5 years ago, or even today, with Gerry Adams spouting views that are at odds with the law and the facts - are two COMPLETELY different things.


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    #69
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    What I will say is that Republicans are well recognised in Dublin and other cities as being on the coal-face of combatting the heroin epidemic. .... The fact of the matter is the the IRA et al have always been explicitly anti-drugs and those who traffic in them.

    And yet you somehow manage to support those who shoot Gardai - Gardai who would otherwise be combatting the heroin epidemic and those who traffic in them ?

    Interesting anti-crime approach, that.


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    #70
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Do I really have to ?

    When's the last time you saw an FF or FG running around at a 1916 commemoration with a "we won! we f**ked the brits over" t-shirt ? :rolleyes:

    Not this crap again.... You want to complain about Ferris, complain away, but for the love of christ lets leave the poxy t-shirts out of it please.


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    #71
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Nodin wrote: »
    I don't know that all of what you said is correct, or indeed the significance or point of some of your remarks.



    You made a number of claims - you should be able to expand upon them, clarify them and back them up.

    Why should I bother providing proof when you will just trot out the hollow denials as already trotted out by senior SF members?

    I am confident in what I have said. Many others will agree with me.

    When some of the points I made were put to Gerry Adams on tv, he couldn't even respond, only try to divert the topic. Nevertheless proving them is another matter.

    Why don't you disprove them if you are such the genius.

    Go ahead big man.


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    #72
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not this crap again.... You want to complain about Ferris, complain away, but for the love of christ lets leave the poxy t-shirts out of it please.

    I wish they would, actually. It'd show maturity and progress.

    But I'm not the one selling them.


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    #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Why should I bother providing proof
    .

    Because unsubstantiated remarks are a 'no-no' on this and many other debate boards.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    I am confident in what I have said.
    .

    ...yet are unable to back it up.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Many others will agree with me.

    The popularity of an opinion, or the reverse, is no guarantee of its basis in fact.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    When some of the points I made were put to Gerry Adams on tv, he couldn't even respond, only try to divert the topic.

    And here you are, unable to respond, and trying to divert the topic with tales of the bould Gerry.....
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Go ahead big man.

    ...and this kind of silly talk.

    Again, I draw your attention to here.....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61409393&postcount=39


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    #74
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Nodin wrote: »
    Because unsubstantiated remarks are a 'no-no' on this and many other debate boards.



    ...yet are unable to back it up.



    The popularity of an opinion, or the reverse, is no guarantee of its basis in fact.



    And here you are, unable to respond, and trying to divert the topic with tales of the bould Gerry.....



    ...and this kind of silly talk.

    Again, I draw your attention to here.....
    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61409393&postcount=39
    You listen to me son. You may be a murderer yourself. And if you are not you are certainly an apologist for murderers so anything you say, caning on here, mouthing it off like the hard lad will be taken with a pinch of salt by me and many more like me.

    It is amazing that we have got to the stage where people are claiming that Sinn Fein are not murderers, criminals, psychos when it was the murder, maiming, racketeering, robbery which has probably attracted them in the first place.


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    #75
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terrontress wrote: »
    You listen (.....)many more like me.
    .

    I also do song and dance numbers on request and was involved in the sack of Constantinople. However, if we could get back to the issues.........
    Terrontress wrote: »
    It is amazing (....)place.

    ...wild speculation about other posters doesn't help either.

    Now, theres a few innocous questions here, which I'll expand on further once you've been good enough to answer them....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61409393&postcount=39


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    #76
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Do I really have to ?
    You don't have to do anything I ask you to, but I don't see why you wouldn't answer my question.
    When's the last time you saw an FF or FG running around at a 1916 commemoration with a "we won! we f**ked the brits over" t-shirt ? :rolleyes:
    I don't see Sinn Féin doing this either. Is this what you are suggesting?

    Plus - as has been stated MILLIONS OF TIMES, once people prove themselves as being rid of violence, THEN the healing can start.

    If FF or FG had suggested that murdering a Garda was OK - as recently as the local elections - and campaigned to have them released, or called to pick them up from jail, or whatever, we would STILL doubt them.

    But they didn't.
    You appear to be missing the point and not answering the question.
    90-odd years ago versus 5 years ago, or even today, with Gerry Adams spouting views that are at odds with the law and the facts - are two COMPLETELY different things.
    They're not two completely different things. In fact I think that it's quite relevant. The Easter Rising of 1916 was an armed insurrection, where people were killed, places robbed and various laws were broken to fulfil aims. However, since it is seen to have achieved Irish 'independence', Irish people revel in its occurrence, celebrating it as a victory of the noble Irish rebel. So again, do you think the same of the Irish governments and other such organisations, who have glorified and continue to glorify the Easter Rising of 1916?


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    #77
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    DoireNod wrote: »
    I don't see Sinn Féin doing this either. Is this what you are suggesting?

    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=538&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb

    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=303&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb

    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=307&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb
    DoireNod wrote: »
    You appear to be missing the point and not answering the question.

    To you, obviously; to me not. To a neutral observer, maybe not.
    DoireNod wrote: »
    They're not two completely different things. In fact I think that it's quite relevant. The Easter Rising of 1916 was an armed insurrection, where people were killed, places robbed and various laws were broken to fulfil aims. However, since it is seen to have achieved Irish 'independence', Irish people revel in its occurrence, celebrating it as a victory of the noble Irish rebel.

    You're putting a whole lot of extras in there, since you have absolutely no idea of whether I "revel" in its occurrence, or merely accept it as a fact, or am repulsed by some of the actions.

    Yes, we celebrate the "birth" of the country (understandably) but we don't necessarily gloat about the less-noble acts.
    DoireNod wrote: »
    So again, do you think the same of the Irish governments and other such organisations, who have glorified and continue to glorify the Easter Rising of 1916?

    I don't view that they "glorify" anything; I view that they acknowledge it and accept that it happened, but I don't see any t-shirts along the above distasteful lines being sold elsewhere.

    And if I remember rightly, there is rememberance to the "Battle of the Boyne", acknowledging and remembering people from BOTH sides who fought directly against each other; again, acknowledging FACTS.

    Let me put it this way : would you view an American acknowledging WWII and Pearl Harbour differently if he had a rememberance ceremony, or if he wore a t-shirt saying "undefeated nukes : 2 ; Hiroshima & Nagasaki : 0"

    Would you view someone who wore a t-shirt of the twin towers falling down as distasteful, while viewing differently someone from anywhere in the world (regardless of their view of Bush or Bin Laden) reflecting at the site or laying flowers ?

    Because I would.


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    #78
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=538&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb

    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=303&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb

    http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=307&osCsid=453db3c181eb2018331203f402b244eb
    Sinn Féin don't wear t-shirts such as the above at commemorations, do they?


    To you, obviously; to me not. To a neutral observer, maybe not.
    No, you didn't actually answer my question when you initially set out to address it.


    You're putting a whole lot of extras in there, since you have absolutely no idea of whether I "revel" in its occurrence, or merely accept it as a fact, or am repulsed by some of the actions.
    Fair enough. I should have said 'many' or 'some' Irish people, but the point still stands.
    Yes, we celebrate the "birth" of the country (understandably) but we don't necessarily gloat about the less-noble acts.

    I don't view that they "glorify" anything; I view that they acknowledge it and accept that it happened, but I don't see any t-shirts along the above distasteful lines being sold elsewhere.
    The very acknowledgement (especially through statues, plaques etc.) of the perceived victory of the Irish people through armed insurrection, is effectively glorifying the combined acts which led to that 'victory'. Am I right in thinking that you think that the consequent Irish governments and other organisations treat Irish 'independence' as a mere afterthought, not giving it much credence? There's a tourist industry here that's very heavily based on the whole 'independence' thing too, but no, that's not glorification either - just acknowledgement.
    And if I remember rightly, there is rememberance to the "Battle of the Boyne", acknowledging and remembering people from BOTH sides who fought directly against each other; again, acknowledging FACTS.
    An irrelevant fact nevertheless. A remembrance ceremony is slightly different to a national commemoration. Remebrance denotes a solemn acknowledgement, whereas a commemoration gives special honourable recognition.
    Let me put it this way : would you view an American acknowledging WWII and Pearl Harbour differently if he had a rememberance ceremony, or if he wore a t-shirt saying "undefeated nukes : 2 ; Hiroshima & Nagasaki : 0"

    Would you view someone who wore a t-shirt of the twin towers falling down as distasteful, while viewing differently someone from anywhere in the world (regardless of their view of Bush or Bin Laden) reflecting at the site or laying flowers ?
    Yes I'd view someone differently. It's natural; but to say that Sinn Féin are dancing around at commemorations wearing brash t-shirts is simply false.


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    #79
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Nodin wrote: »
    I also do song and dance numbers on request and was involved in the sack of Constantinople. However, if we could get back to the issues.........



    ...wild speculation about other posters doesn't help either.

    Now, theres a few innocous questions here, which I'll expand on further once you've been good enough to answer them....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61409393&postcount=39

    Ok. Your questions.
    Names?

    Don't know them.
    Don't FF and FG members work gratis for the SDLP during elections up north?

    Wasn't aware of that but I will take your word for it.
    I wonder why no other party ever did that.

    They don't have the resources of Sinn Fein.
    You have a source for that allegation? A few convictions or something....?

    Yeah, the convictions of James Monaghan, Martin McCauley and Niall Connolly in a Colombian court.


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    #80
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terrontress wrote: »
    Don't know them..

    But you said
    Also, the election management which they employ in the North is carried out by some of the greatest political analysts on Earth, none of them Irish.

    ...surely you know who these people are, or have some source for your claim?
    Terrontress wrote: »
    They don't have the resources of Sinn Fein.

    That was sarcasm on my part. I'd be suprised if any party with seats in NI or the South had not a PR consultant and a budget for clothes, hairdoes and make up. Certainly the amount spent on various leaders has been the object of derision on a few occassions. Even the orange order has tried a bit of rebranding.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Yeah, the convictions of James Monaghan, Martin McCauley and Niall Connolly in a Colombian court.

    ...which you speculatively link with SF finances.


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    #81
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...which you speculatively link with SF finances.

    What was their motivation if not financial?

    In any case, they were facilitating a group which finances itself through the production and distribution of Class A drugs. Class A drugs which ruin thousands of Irish lives.

    And as for the names of the PR consultants and election managers, I don't know the name of anyone in the NYPD but I believe they exist.

    Do you know their names? If I were to make up 5 names would you know I had made them up? Is that why you were asking, because you know them?


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    #82
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,205 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Terrontress wrote: »
    And as for the names of the PR consultants and election managers, I don't know the name of anyone in the NYPD but I believe they exist.

    How about nationalities then? It is only fair considering it is you who is making the stuff up.


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    #83
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Swiss and American.


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    #84
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,205 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Numbers? How do you know they are Swiss and American?


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    #85
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Numbers? How do you know they are Swiss and American?

    I read it. I don't know the numbers.


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    #86
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    By the way, Doire Nord and Dub in Glasgow.

    Am I correct in assuming that you are focussing in on one part of my post to discredit the rest of it, namely that Sinn Fein has the largest budget of any party in Northern Ireland due to criminality?

    Try to jump on the nationalities of their vote management consultants and if you can prove that wrong then surely the bit about training drug cartels in Colombia cannot stand either?


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    #87
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terrontress wrote: »
    What was their motivation if not financial?
    ?

    Ideologoical/personal...who knows. Either way, no link has been shown or proven with SF finances.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    And as for the names of the PR consultants and election managers, I don't know the name of anyone in the NYPD but I believe they exist. ?

    All parties have consultants and election managers. What you claimed was rather more eye catching.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    If I were to make up 5 names would you know I had made them up?

    I'd slap them in google and say what came up. However I'd expect a source with the names.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    Swiss and American.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    I read it. I don't know the numbers.

    Excellent. Where did you read it, so we might look ourselves.
    Terrontress wrote: »
    namely that Sinn Fein has the largest budget of any party in Northern Ireland due to criminality?

    They're the largest nationalist party, have seats in Europe, fund raise nationaly and internationaly, and have audited accounts. Theres nothing untoward there. Otherwise they'd have been hung with it a long time ago.


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    #88
    weepee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭weepee


    The Shinners can still pack them in at $1000 a nite dinners in New England.

    AP/RN is [I believe] the largest selling political rag on the island.


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    #89
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Terrontress wrote: »
    By the way, Doire Nord and Dub in Glasgow.
    Is this a typo, or a dig?
    Am I correct in assuming that you are focussing in on one part of my post to discredit the rest of it, namely that Sinn Fein has the largest budget of any party in Northern Ireland due to criminality?

    Try to jump on the nationalities of their vote management consultants and if you can prove that wrong then surely the bit about training drug cartels in Colombia cannot stand either?
    I can only speak for myself, but you are incorrect in assuming that. The last post I posted in response to you was simply asking you to enlighten me about the 'fact' that Sinn Féin trained Colombian rebels. Incidentally do you really believe that Sinn Féin and all its members are criminals?


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    #90
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Is this a typo, or a dig?


    I can only speak for myself, but you are incorrect in assuming that. The last post I posted in response to you was simply asking you to enlighten me about the 'fact' that Sinn Féin trained Colombian rebels. Incidentally do you really believe that Sinn Féin and all its members are criminals?

    I believe that Sinn Fein has a higher level of criminality than any other party which is represented in Oireachtas Eireann, NI Assembly and Westminster. I don't believe all its members are criminals but I believe that they condone serious criminal behaviour if they see it furthers their ideological aims.


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    #91
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Terrontress wrote: »
    I believe that Sinn Fein has a higher level of criminality than any other party which is represented in Oireachtas Eireann, NI Assembly and Westminster. I don't believe all its members are criminals but I believe that they condone serious criminal behaviour if they see it furthers their ideological aims.
    I see. Well, what is the basis for this belief? And what kind of 'serious criminal behaviour' do you believe Sinn Féin 'condone'?

    As a side note, several politicians in the UK recently came under a lot of fire for taking advantage of their position and basically acting in a fraudulent manner, spending money that wasn't rightfully theirs. That's a criminal offence. Do you feel that the parties, of which these politicians are (or were) a member, should suffer in the electorate because of these individuals' actions?


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