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120Mb speeds on the way

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    I wouldn't get too excited about 120Mb broadband just yet! Sure enough they'll roll it out next year, probably offering it to businesses only to begin with. They'd prob offer 40-60Mb as the new "Maxi" package, then every so often "upgrade it" to a higher speed. (it won't really be an upgrade, the infrastructure for higher speed will already be there. )
    That will keep them ticking over for a few years! :P
    they launched it in the netherlands and another territory last year (possibly sweden) and said they'd launch it in the rest of their territories by the end of this year. fair enough their timeframe has slipped slightly in ireland but they've announced it here officially and it's in all their bumph already as a future residential package for early next year.

    they seem to be the only one investing in infrastructure in ireland at the moment and have poured millions into getting their whole network upgraded to support these new higher speeds, so it's definitely coming.

    i'm more than happy with the 20mbps i already have with them, but faster is always better because if UPC can offer 120mbps to half the households in the country then the other ISP's are going to have to do something to try and compete or lose all their business to UPC.

    they must know this and they'd have to be blind not to see it coming, so I'd be very surprised if they're not working on something to increase their speeds by the time upc 120mbps hits the streets because if they don't they're gonna find themselves royally fooked very quickly. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    DSL is pretty much at saturation
    myimage.gif
    Green line is LLU or newer eircom ADSL2+ exchanges.
    Optimistic, assuming best lines and little crosstalk (the more users, the more crosstalk)
    Can typically be half the speed compared with "ideal" attenuation / line distance equivalent

    Blue Line is original eircom ADSL exchanges and original bitstream.

    In practice there is no advantage more than 3km (45dB to 50dB), About 6Mbps to 8Mbps. The Average line length is slightly under 3km and only 15% are more than 6km (too long). However pairgains or poor line or bad connections can make a line fail. A multipair cable only 500m can be half as fast as the graph if there are a lot of DSL customers which increases cross talk. Increasing Interleaving (higher latency) reduces crosstalk and helps maintain a higher speed. ADSL2+ has slightly less crosstalk issue than original ADSL.

    Advantage of VDSL over ADSL2+ ends at about 800m.

    eircom have been destroying themselves for years with lack of investment and high line rental. Mobile and lack of regulation of it is also destroying customer base of fixed lines.

    We need FTTC, and doing it for every house in the country would cost half of eircom's debt.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Even in Romania UPC offer up to 24Mb Speeds, 4Mb upload

    http://www.upc.ro/internet/

    Not exactly a developed country.

    Seems UPC are good at entering a country and destroying most competition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    dub45 wrote: »
    I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

    I think I would prefer a monopoly because a company grabbed the bull by the horns and put money into its infrastructure than a monopoly because a company used it's incumbent status to drag its feet and having a regulator in its pocket.

    I'm skeptical about this announcement as most of these things are just for publicity but even if it does go ahead as planned I don't think they are going to be let gallop off into the distance. Imagine the pressure that will be put on Magnet/Digiweb/Smart (or their potential new owner) even Eircom will be forced into action if UPC start providing 120mbit for a reasonable price. There is nothing like a company planning to offer a product almost 10 times faster than what you're currently offering to put a fire under you :D

    I know in Eircom's case the money to compete is definitely not there but hopefully this announcement and the eventual roll out of this product will bring on the sorting out of Eircom for the long term. It might also bring about the consolidation of some of the smaller ISP's into larger Companies that can realistically compete with a company with the clout of UPC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Most people are not going to pay a premium for a faster speed.

    The number of Mobile data users is now 1/2 the number of broadband users, and dsl & fixed wireless falling because it's cheap and widely available not because it's any good or fast.

    eircom have a 24Mbps product on their adsl2+ exchanges and 7.6Mbps on regular DSL, but nearly 2/3rds, certainly more than half are on 1Mbps.

    There is a market for the 120Mbps, but the majority of people signing to UPC will be on the two lowest packages.

    Cable can easily do this, esp. HFC. So eventually it will be sold here. But it will be the minority who really want to pay for speed and traffic.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭Ranicand


    Don't believe a word of it. Check out your current speed against your claimed speed from your isp on one of the internet speed sites.

    And again 24 hours later UPC 10meg pack.

    529866862.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    cisk wrote: »
    Even in Romania UPC offer up to 24Mb Speeds, 4Mb upload

    http://www.upc.ro/internet/

    Not exactly a developed country.

    Seems UPC are good at entering a country and destroying most competition.

    Cost of 24MB in Romania: 52.00 RON = 12.4379 EUR :eek:

    Also, if so-called competition will not compete, they deserve to be destroyed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    that's the thing. if a business can't compete it goes out of business, its just natural selection. maybe ntl could end up with a monopoly if they can out do all the other broadband providers, but at the same time, if the others can't compete they shouldn't be in the market.

    where would the world be if every time a company was able to out-do all the other companies in their field they were forced to keep offering lower speed/quality so they didn't create a monopoly?

    sorry intel, your CPU's are just TOO damn fast. can you please keep making crappy slower ones so that AMD can keep up?

    the world just doesn't work like that. only the fittest survive and the rest stagnate and die and I for one welcome our new 120mbps internet providing overloads. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭Brian


    Sounds quite Atlas Shrugged.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    dub45 wrote: »
    I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

    I'm not concerned, Eircom continue to own 90% of all wired broadband (through bitstream and LLU reselling). UPC probably represent less then 10% of the wired broadband.

    If UPC launch 120mb/s BB * and start gaining massive amounts of customers from Eircom, it will leave Eircom two choices, compete or die.

    I assume they will take the former choice and we might start getting real competition and real speeds here.

    What does concern me is that we could be left with an ever widening gap between people in urban areas with UPC 120mb/s BB and people in suburban and rural areas stuck on Eircom 1mb/s if they are lucky.

    * While 120mb/s sounds great, I think it is their other products that will have a greater impact, UPC in the Netherlands sells 25mb/s BB for just €25, that is half the price Eircom charge for 1mb/s BB!!

    If UPC intro 25mb/s for roughly the same price here, UPC will absolutely destroy Eircom in cabled areas.

    I'd guess Eircoms response will be to introduce ADSL2+ as standard and sell it as upto 24mb/s to everyone (at least in urban areas served by UPC).

    This might give them at least some chance to hold onto the low end customers who make up the majority of the customers *.

    * Of course people would probably still be better off with UPC as it would offer better real speeds and cheaper prices, but if Eircom can keep the price gap down and fool people into thinking they are getting 24mb/s, a lot of people might be slow to move due to inertia.

    I don't know what Eircom will do to compete with the faster products, they can only compete with these with a massive network investment in FFTC/VDSL2+ or FTTH and I just don't see where they can get the money to do this, perhaps they wont and leave the high end customers to UPC competing only for the low end customers.

    Either way interesting times ahead.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    Eircoms Tech support staff +6months


    htmlFood.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭Mimikyu


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    This post has been deleted.

    However, just to be fair, take a look here

    Monthly Minimum wage (170hrs) in Romania is 600.00 new lei.

    This is equivalent to:

    600.00 RON = 143.675 EUR :eek: :eek:

    Kinda puts it perspective, right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    530412168.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭WellyJ


    hightower1 wrote: »
    Eircoms Tech support staff +6months


    htmlFood.jpg


    You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    WellyJ wrote: »
    You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD
    are you kidding? that guy's one of their managers. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭CutzEr


    If Eircom reduced the prices of line rental to near nothing, broadband would be alot better in this country. ALOT more people would buy broadband, and there would be price wars everywhere..

    Would be a bit crazy, but it would damn sure work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭who is this


    WellyJ wrote: »
    You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD

    No, but they can't provide broadband, or run reliable DNS servers either, and that's never stopped them!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    they could start investing in THIS then they wouldn't even need to worry about using their own crappy infrastruture to bring (up to) 100mbps broadband to every home in the country (assuming every home has leccy, obviously).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Unregistered.


    vibe666 wrote: »
    they could start investing in THIS then they wouldn't even need to worry about using their own crappy infrastruture to bring (up to) 100mbps broadband to every home in the country (assuming every home has leccy, obviously).
    The ESB do that(well, something similar, but they're using their existing infrastructure), and it's leased to smaller providers like Magnet Entertainment.

    What the ESB is use their power lines and twist fibrewire around it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    vibe666 wrote: »
    they could start investing in THIS then they wouldn't even need to worry about using their own crappy infrastruture to bring (up to) 100mbps broadband to every home in the country (assuming every home has leccy, obviously).

    You misunderstand how that works.
    see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055639143
    specifically
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61428585&postcount=3

    100Mbps is best SHARED bandwidth on a small cable network on a Substation (transformer stepdown to 220V).

    Even if interference wasn't an issue, it's never going to deliver broadband, but worse than 3G speed. ESB very sensibly use fibre for data on their main transmission network. Much better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    ah well, it was worth a go.

    i guess i should have known better considering how crap those homeplug things are.

    like you said, it was a good idea 10 years ago. :(


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    vibe666 wrote: »
    i guess i should have known better considering how crap those homeplug things are.

    Actually I find the homeplug devices quite good.

    Streaming Smarts IPTV service (about 6mb/s) all day long over homeplug devices and it is rock solid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭WellyJ


    bk wrote: »
    Actually I find the homeplug devices quite good.

    Streaming Smarts IPTV service (about 6mb/s) all day long over homeplug devices and it is rock solid.

    Yeh I was going to ask what you find so bad about them?

    They have been excellent in my experience, beats the hell out of wireless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Homeplug can be OK. Though most times generate a huge amount of MF/SW interference.

    If you get a good connection, then they are better than WiFi for video. WiFi won't generally support HD or even full quality ordinary 720x576i MPEG2 video if anyone else is using the WiFi (web video is often 1/10th the data rate).

    Not all models and brands are equal. It's basically DSL technology using up to 30MHz. But network cables and phone cables are mostly twisted pairs, so little interference is radiated.

    Mains wires are more like aerials. Also illegally made SMPSU (PCs or TV or Chargers) or CFL lamps generate enough interference to kill LW/MW/SW radio and Homeplug. A common ploy is to get CE approval and then leave out filtering components on the CFL/Charger/PSU/Gadget/TV etc to save cost and shipping weight. Or even fake the CE mark :(

    So there are lots of reasons a Homeplug might not work (including the wiring of house) and even if working perfectly they vary in amount of Interference produced up to 30MHz or 60MHz. BT had a set in UK that were very bad.

    Also "Homeplug type" of gadget makers often cheat by getting an Office Equipment CE mark instead of Communications Equipment CE marks that have suitable test regimes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    ...For Casey Cablevision customers in Dungarvan, Co. Waterford:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    ...For Casey Cablevision customers in Dungarvan, Co. Waterford:pac:

    Really? Well done to them if so. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    WellyJ wrote: »
    Yeh I was going to ask what you find so bad about them?
    i think i narrowed my problems down to the fact that i was taking the homeplug connection across more than one circuit (downstairs wiring to upstairs wiring) which reduces your speed considerably AND that I have CFL bulbs throughout the house which can apparently also cause a lot of interference.

    between both of those, my 80mbps homeplugs were down to a peak of about 5-10mbps depending on what I was doing over the connection.

    by contract, my WDS wifi bridge (WDS instantly halves your overall speed) was coming through the floor and two walls and was still about twice as fast between my two routers, but since all my neighbours seem to have won the ISP wifi lottery there's no more clear channels so I was getting regular drop outs and had to look for an alternative solution.

    homeplugs wasn't it, but poking a hole in the external walls nearest each router and running a cable the 20 or so metres between them outside the house WAS the solution and i haven't looked back since. :)

    i just wish i'd just done that in the first place instead of trying all sorts of imaginative and expensive solutions when all it needed was a run of ethernet cable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭congo_90


    I find it hard to understand why people are worried about someone bringing in a high speed connection (with terrible upload speeds).

    I myself know how rural areas can suffer but also let's not forget that competitors of upc will now sh1t themselves, wake up and start trying to roll out better broadband and will hopefully roll out to areas which "are not high demand" but realistically are.

    I'm lucky where I am as I have ftth connections which gives me 11mb/s up and down.

    This is the sorta kick up the arse we need here and as with all rollouts/upgrades comes that lovely thing: work


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    congo_90 wrote: »
    I find it hard to understand why people are worried about someone bringing in a high speed connection (with terrible upload speeds).
    well, i'm an ntl customer, so i'm quite chuffed about it actually, and i totally agree with you about a bit of competition being good for everyone.

    yeah maybe nobody can keep up with them for a while when they bring it out, but eircom & bt etc. know that it's coming, so if they're not already trying to figure out how they can compete, they soon will be and no doubt they will come up with something.

    maybe not a 100mbps+ something, but *something* that will make at least some of the ship jumpers think twice. free line rental? new ultra low prices? abolishing caps? who knows, but they'll need to do something even if it isn't ramping up the speeds.

    after all, who has any legit use for 120mbps broadband at home anyway?

    as for the low upload speeds, it may not be synchronous, but 5mbps up on 60mbps down and 10mbps up on 120mbps down is more than enough for most people at home and the ratio easily competes with most broadband options available to home users in ireland.


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