120Mb speeds on the way

bk

vibe666 wrote: »

yeah maybe nobody can keep up with them for a while when they bring it out, but eircom & bt etc.

I think it might actually be good if Eircom can't compete for a year or so. It might help UPC steal a lot of customers from Eircom and therefore help balance the market a bit better and in the longterm introduce better competition.

vibe666 wrote: »

know that it's coming, so if they're not already trying to figure out how they can compete, they soon will be and no doubt they will come up with something.

Yes, that this was coming should have been obvious for the past 12 months, Eircom are idiots if they didn't expect it and have been preparing for it. But then you never know with Eircom.

vibe666 wrote: »

maybe not a 100mbps+ something, but *something* that will make at least some of the ship jumpers think twice. free line rental? new ultra low prices? abolishing caps? who knows, but they'll need to do something even if it isn't ramping up the speeds.

I think the quick stop gap measure is transfer everyone (in UPC enabled areas) to ADSL2+ and make "upto" 24mb/s the new entry level product.

Sure that won't compete with 120mb/s, but the real competition for Eircom isn't UPC 120mb/s product, rather it is UPC's entry level 25mb/s product. UPC 25mb/s is probably what the majority of people would get.

So if Eircom can tell people they have been upgraded to 24mb/s, even if they are really only getting 8 to 12mb/s due to the limitations of DSL and even though it would probably still a lot more expensive the UPC 25mb/s, with lots of advertising and fancy PR it might be enough to convince the majority of non techy users not to bother moving.

People are basically lazy, if you can convince them that there isn't too much of a gap in speed and price (even if it is a complete lie), then their laziness will win out and they won't bother moving.

I think you can even see Eircom preparing for this sort of plan, they have been rolling out ADSL2+ to all their urban exchanges that might be in the same areas as UPC.

vibe666 wrote: »

homeplugs wasn't it, but poking a hole in the external walls nearest each router and running a cable the 20 or so metres between them outside the house WAS the solution and i haven't looked back since.

Yes ethernet is always the best, I've wired ethernet myself, I have to use the homeplug device due to some stupid inadequacies of the Smart gear.

The smart router seems to have a hard limit on the number of devices that can connect to it (and I've got a lot of IP hungry devices), so I put in my own superior router, but then the Smart IPTV service won't cross the third party router, probably because of QoS issues, so I use the homeplug devices jsut for the Smart gear.

I would say IME the Devolo 200ms/s homeplug gear works really well and is the next best thing for most people who can't wire their home for ethernet.

Of course as Watty and Vibe point out not all gear is made equal and depending on the electrical set up of your home, it mightn't work well. Best to buy from a place where you can test it out and return it if it doesn't work well.

watty

The DSL average length is about equal to 3Mbps. Maybe 20% can only get 1Mbps and maybe less than 10% to 15% can get 24Mbps.

The real eircom issue is line rental. Without having to do payments on all the debt due to leveraged buyouts, eircom could do an entry level line-rental / calls/ Broadband bundle under 20 Euro inc VAT. Instead due to level of Debt they want to RAISE the line rental from the killing approx 26 Eur.

The €20 Mobile is destroying eircom as much as UPC fast packages.

dub45

watty wrote: »

The DSL average length is about equal to 3Mbps. Maybe 20% can only get 1Mbps and maybe less than 10% to 15% can get 24Mbps.

The real eircom issue is line rental. Without having to do payments on all the debt due to leveraged buyouts, eircom could do an entry level line-rental / calls/ Broadband bundle under 20 Euro inc VAT. Instead due to level of Debt they want to RAISE the line rental from the killing approx 26 Eur.

The €20 Mobile is destroying eircom as much as UPC fast packages.

Yes this is true. I know from chatting to a few people I know in Eircom that they have been really surprised by the impact of the mobile bb. They are really being squeezed by the mobile on one hand and UPC on the other. However even if they had not damaged themselves so comprehensively with the line rental increases over the past few years the days of the old style telephone line going into houses has surely been numbered now for quite some time?

Surely the answer is to have a neutral 'path' into homes and then let the various providers compete for access to the home via that pipe? Too late for that now though:(

Onikage

dub45 wrote: »

Surely the answer is to have a neutral 'path' into homes and then let the various providers compete for access to the home via that pipe? Too late for that now though:(

Too late for eircom perhaps. I often see people kicking numbers around here as to how much it would cost, represented as a percentage of eircoms debt.

watty

eircom lines just prior to privatisation = 82%
lines the last report (late 2008 or early 2009) = 66%

1/3rd are welfare/social services paid, you can now get Mobile and The Gov. would save millions a month replacing all the "social" lines they pay for with Mobiles mandatory, rather than optional.

eircom want to raise the rental.

bealtine

watty wrote: »

eircom lines just prior to privatisation = 82%
lines the last report (late 2008 or early 2009) = 66%

1/3rd are welfare/social services paid, you can now get Mobile and The Gov. would save millions a month replacing all the "social" lines they pay for with Mobiles mandatory, rather than optional.

eircom want to raise the rental.

Which is very strange when the pressure is on to reduce costs in all sectors...
Look at gas and electricity prices, they've come down...the pressures on costs and competitiveness is paramount in all sectors, if we want to be taken seriously then line rental must fall to the levels seen in most other European countries.

Maybe NAMA should buy eircom and bailout those bankers too:)

hightower1

And with UPC now offering HD ( all be it with a limited starting line up) they really are positioning themselves for a clean sweep across the board.

vibe666

hightower1 wrote: »

And with UPC now offering HD ( all be it with a limited starting line up) they really are positioning themselves for a clean sweep across the board.

looks like it, i'm having a look into the Digital+HD now, it seems like a pretty good deal compared to Sky+ and as i have broadband and phone already with them i'd get the bundle price too.

dub45

hightower1 wrote: »

And with UPC now offering HD ( all be it with a limited starting line up) they really are positioning themselves for a clean sweep across the board.

We should be worried about a company with a clause like this tucked away in its Terms and Conditions acquiring such a dominant position:

12. Cancellation Rights
You may cancel the Services at any time, and the minimum period obligations contained
in Paragraph 3 will not apply, in the following circumstances:
(i) if we materially change the Terms and Conditions as per Section 16 you may
terminate this Agreement in accordance with that section;
(ii) if we increase your Charges for the Services by more than fifteen (15) percent in any
twelve (12) month period, you may terminate your use of such Services by notifying us
within 30 days of such increase. During that notice period the increased Charges will
not apply to you;
(iii) if we significantly reduce the content of the Services you may terminate this
Agreement by giving us one month’s notice within 30 days of such change.

15%!!!!!!!!

Also does anyone know if this type of thing is included in other isp's T&C's?

11.9 Termination or suspension of this Agreement for whatever reason may result in the
deletion of your remaining voice and email messages as well as all other data, and the
closure of your email accounts and the disconnection of your telephone numbers, and
we will be under no liability to you in respect of such deletion, closure and disconnection.

DECEiFER

dub45 wrote: »

Also does anyone know if this type of thing is included in other isp's T&C's?

Make regular back-ups and you won't be affected. Use POP3, and then you will also not be affected (by loss of email records, at least). People change email addresses all the time, it's even more contagious than the epidemic of mobile number changes. Some people I know go through 3 numbers a year. I have had the same number since 2002 (thankfully, though, I have changed my phone several times since then ).

OK, I won't deny that some people will be put off by that clause. I'm not at all phased, and I'm not willing to be critical of UPC until they let me down, or let a good number of their customers down. Remember, no company has a 100% customer satisfaction rate. It's just not possible to please everyone. So, I'd advise that we all wait and see how this works out when it's rolled out. Until then, there's nothing factual we can criticize. However, being slightly skeptical isn't a bad idea. Just reference the disappointment brought on by the Eircon speed upgrades of 2008. The QoS has gone downhill, 3-fold, or more. Though, Eircon and UPC are two different species. Let's wait and see...

hightower1

Ah sure ...... cant fight products and prices like theirs!

Tucked away though? I ordered the HD stb the other day and they sent me a PDF recipt to my email acc and showed me it on the site both incliuded and clearely said to read the terms and conditions on both occasions?

I'd have to have been a dope to miss them, I did read them and didnt see anything out of sorts really. So they dont service an email address form them if you close an account???? So what? Sure you can set up any amount of free email accounts online in under five mins like?


And 15% amx increase in a year? Their top pack is around 80eur..... that equates to the max increase they will do is 12 eur in a full 12months! ?
Things arent that tight that I'd be canx over a missing 12 quid.

Looks like they are offering the best in the business now

Unregistered.

hightower1 wrote: »

Ah sure ...... cant fight products and prices like theirs!

Tucked away though? I ordered the HD stb the other day and they sent me a PDF recipt to my email acc and showed me it on the site both incliuded and clearely said to read the terms and conditions on both occasions?

I'd have to have been a dope to miss them, I did read them and didnt see anything out of sorts really. So they dont service an email address form them if you close an account???? So what? Sure you can set up any amount of free email accounts online in under five mins like?

Surely that will only apply to the email address they service! Like the eircom ones, yourname@eircom.net. You're existing hotmail/gmail etc will be fine.

hightower1

Oh ya of coarse. Think the way their system is set up the broadband provision is linked to the email provision so any deletion of a bb account would delete a UPC email address but wouldnt effect any other.

So its pretty much a non issue like.

Unregistered.

hightower1 wrote: »

So its pretty much a non issue like.

Exactly.


And about the bit where they say you can cancel your subcription, without penalty, if they increase your bill by more than 15%. Well, I think that is something they HAVE TO do. Perhaps some EU cosumer legislation or ComReg or something. Coz it would be very unfair that if, like other service providers, there is a penalty for canelling your subscrition early and they hike up the prices, you'd still have to pay the calcellation fee. Ya know?

gabbo is coming

Maybe this is buried in a previous post, but have UPC indicated when the new speeds will come in to operation and what speeds will the 10, 20 and 30 existing plans go to?

Fresh Pots

gabbo is coming wrote: »

Maybe this is buried in a previous post, but have UPC indicated when the new speeds will come in to operation and what speeds will the 10, 20 and 30 existing plans go to?

No info given except for the upgrades will take place early next year.

vibe666

taking purely from what has happened in the netherlands where the first piloted the 120mbps broadband + some guestimation, this is what we *should* see, but what we actually will see is anyones guess I suppose.

1mbps > 5mbps
3mbps > 10mbps
10mbps > 25mbps
20mbps > 60mbps

plus:
90mbps
120mbps (prob. around the €80 mark as is the netherlands price)

prices for the upgrades would (probably) stay around the same amount but as per t&c's they couldn't change the price by more than 15% anyways.

have a look at www.upc.nl for a better idea of what they have going on there as it's just my opinion (no evidence or inside sources, it's just what I think is going to happen) that the price and packages here and in the rest of europe will be modelled on the NL packages to create peace and harmony in the world of super fast cable broadband.

jamesnp

vibe666 wrote: »

prices for the upgrades would (probably) stay around the same amount but as per t&c's they couldn't change the price by more than 15% anyways. )

Well, they could — you'd just have the right to cancel with no penalty.

My personal take on this is that current customers will [possibly] see a price cut, but that there'll be no automatic increase in speeds. We have to remember that UPC currently use EuroDOCSIS 2.0 on their network and the current Cisco modems are designed for that standard (max 30mb). To make use of the new 120mb speed the modem needs to be upgraded with a model that supports EuroDOCIS 3.0 and gigabit ethernet at least, and possibly 802.11n. UPC are not going to upgrade hardware for free, surely?

My guess is that there'll be an upgrade fee for current customers or some kind of increased fee/contract/extra services combo thing that would entitle you to a new modem for free.

-jp

vibe666

why are you dragging up a thread where the last post was from more than a year ago?

the current thread on this topic is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055727448