Young Male drivers

Lord Derpington

What is the story with this crap, im sick of hearing on the radio and in the papers that because i am a young male driver I;

1) I drive too fast
2) Im going to kill any girl in my passanger seat

I mean as if the radio add where "he drives, she dies" wasnt enough now this weekend under the Bank holiday road safety crackdown

The campaign is also calling on the families and friends of young male drivers to put pressure on them to drive safely

I understad there is a stastic out there but at the same time, personally; ive never been in an accident and i see misktakes being made by other drivers every day on the road.
I by no means claim to be a brilliant driver, but there are a lot of terrible drivers out there that are not young male drivers.
I think these campaigns attacking young males have taken it a bit far.

Opinions?

Edit: If only this was passed and enforced..

jameshayes

We're all as bad as each other - young males are the easiest target tho

DamoDLK

Stats man, ya cant argue with the stats... roll on 25 for me!

Dartz

I like going for the high-score on those 'Your speed is->' signs

oldyouth

As a group, it is the case that young male drivers are faster than the average and also have more accidents where passengers are injured. I know many individual male drivers under 25 who are better drivers than I am and are more careful on the road than I used to be at their age. Unfortunately, there are others who tip the odds the other way

Pace2008

It's partially because young males are statistically more probable to be in a serious car accident, and partially because young, white, heterosexual males are the last portion of the population whom you can discriminate against.

You know that if there was a road safety ad saying 'Women: learn how to correctly navigate roundabouts and use your ****ing indicators' there would be uproar.

Fink Goddie

Pace2008 wrote: »

It's partially because young males are statistically more probable to be in a serious car accident, and partially because young, white, heterosexual males are the last portion of the population whom you can discriminate against.

You know that if there was a road safety ad saying 'Women: learn how to correctly navigate roundabouts and use your ****ing indicators' there would be uproar.

Well how often does that cause a death, so there would be no need really.
speed is the main factor in road deaths!

aido179

This one really pisses me off. Im a young male driver (17 and driving on a full license for work 5days a week). Without sounding self righteous, I consider myself a safe driver. The insurance companies dont take the right information. Why should i have to pay for the shit driving of the shams around the country...?

dionsiseire

Its a disgrace really, im with hibernian for insurance, and im paying them just a few euro's under a grand per year, without the ignition test it was 1300

I have completed their ignition test with flying colours, im fully licensed, but im a bloke and 24, driving a 1.0 car (i know but i was hoping for cheaper insurance by doing this)

I have a female friend of 23, also driving a 1.0 engine car, she has a full license but has not passed any extra tests to prove ability, she pays 420

Where is the fairness in that, women might be better drivings, but they are not THAT much better, and considering i passed an extra test just to bring myself down from 3 times her premium to double her premium, i find it an absolute disgrace

Wasnt so long ago women were campaigning for equality of pay etc etc, but it seems that insurance being so sexist is absolutely ok in the business world

**Timbuk2**

Men drive more kilometres on average than women. Men also have more crashes, but this is as a result of driving a greater distance.

If the stats were produced in "crashes per kilometre" instead of "crashes per year" it would be women that are the worst drivers.

Fink Goddie

Its just risk assessment, Insurance companies have to generalise based on the statistics.
What other alternative do they have?

Giblet

I find increasingly that older men are the ones more likely to have a few pints and drive, because that;s what they've always done.

AnonoBoy

Easy way to get around getting screwed by your insurance company when you're a male driver under 25:

Just get older.

dionsiseire

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Easy way to get around getting screwed by your insurance company when you're a male driver under 25:

Just get older.

Your right, hold on till i close my eyes and wake up 34, back in a jiffy :rolleyes:

Lord Derpington

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Well how often does that cause a death, so there would be no need really.
speed is the main factor in road deaths!

Speed might be the main factor in road deaths, by the logic that the idea that the faster you are traveling the more likely you are to die.
But for road accidents crap like this from drivers too lazy to indicate or get in the right lane can cause accidents.
Poor observation to the point of complete lack of awareness and no idicators in the time i have seen this have always been lady drivers, i by no mean that women cant drive ect ect.

They very much can but some are as bad/worse than men. I had a "girl racer" up my arse no so long ago in a pink Honda Civic drivin like a spanner and to think her insurance is probably at least 1/2 mine :rolleyes:

AnonoBoy

dionsiseire wrote: »

Your right, hold on till i close my eyes and wake up 34, back in a jiffy :rolleyes:

Silly boy. You only need to be 26. You just wasted 8 years asleep.

Fink Goddie

greenfly wrote: »

Speed might be the main factor in road deaths, by the logic that the idea that the faster you are traveling the more likely you are to die.
But for road accidents crap like this from drivers too lazy to indicate or get in the right lane can cause accidents.
Poor observation to the point of complete lack of awareness and no idicators in the time i have seen this have always been lady drivers, i by no mean that women cant drive ect ect.

They very much can but some are as bad/worse than men. I had a "girl racer" up my arse no so long ago in a pink Honda Civic drivin like a spanner and to think her insurance is probably at least 1/2 mine :rolleyes:

That may cause a crash yeh but how often would it cause deaths?
I'm sure there are girl racers, but there are way more men that drive aggressively, the insurance companies are not being sexist for the fun of it, the statistics spell it out.
there's no arguing with it really.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

Im 17 & male. I have my provisional licence and have booked my test. The reason im booking it is because when i do have the money for a car it will bring down the insurance. I got quoted a month ago for a 1.1 litre ford fiesta. Over 3000. WHAT A JOKE!!

Ghost Train

Here's the main statistics

Drivers responsable for fatal/serious injury collisions 1996-2004

39% Male 17-24
25% Male 25-34
12% Male 35-49
4% Female 17-24
4% Female 25-34
3% Female 35-49

http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication/upload/speed_mess_3rd_a4_jul07.pdf

az2wp0sye65487

DamoDLK wrote: »

Stats man, ya cant argue with the stats...

oldyouth wrote: »

As a group, it is the case that young male drivers are faster than the average and also have more accidents where passengers are injured. I know many individual male drivers under 25 who are better drivers than I am and are more careful on the road than I used to be at their age. Unfortunately, there are others who tip the odds the other way

But... Would it be acceptable to say: "Women, be careful of black men; as - based on statistics - you are more likely to be raped by a black man than a white man "

This is similar to what's happening to ALL young male drivers..

TestTransmission

dionsiseire wrote: »

Its a disgrace really, im with hibernian for insurance, and im paying them just a few euro's under a grand per year, without the ignition test it was 1300

I have completed their ignition test with flying colours, im fully licensed, but im a bloke and 24, driving a 1.0 car (i know but i was hoping for cheaper insurance by doing this)

I have a female friend of 23, also driving a 1.0 engine car, she has a full license but has not passed any extra tests to prove ability, she pays 420

Where is the fairness in that, women might be better drivings, but they are not THAT much better, and considering i passed an extra test just to bring myself down from 3 times her premium to double her premium, i find it an absolute disgrace

Wasnt so long ago women were campaigning for equality of pay etc etc, but it seems that insurance being so sexist is absolutely ok in the business world

24,1 litre car and ur paying just under a grand?u are getting robbed

AnonoBoy

Dario Hollow Ham wrote: »

But... Would it be acceptable to say: "Women, be careful of black men; as - based on statistics - you are more likely to be raped by a black man than a white man "

Eh...... what statistics in Ireland show that? :rolleyes:

Tigger

however much the stats and ads and cops pick on you young men
rember its the pinacle of humabnity and therefore life

Lord Derpington

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Eh...... what statistics in Ireland show that? :rolleyes:

Your missing the point, he is not saying that there is a stastic to show it.
But rather if there was, would it be accectable to say it?
To promote it on the radio, TV and newspaper? I very much doubt it

Tigger

greenfly wrote: »

Your missing the point, he is not saying that there is a stastic to show it.
But rather if there was, would it be accectable to say it?
To promote it on the radio, TV and newspaper? I very much doubt it

there is no history of the subjegation an' misrepresentation of young men

Fink Goddie

greenfly wrote: »

Your missing the point, he is not saying that there is a stastic to show it.
But rather if there was, would it be accectable to say it?
To promote it on the radio, TV and newspaper? I very much doubt it

If every weekend it was happening then yeh i think it should be promoted on the radio, TV and newspaper.
But yeh you're right it wouldnt be accepted here, because you cant say anythin about black people without it being seen as racist.

Loomis

dionsiseire wrote: »

Its a disgrace really, im with hibernian for insurance, and im paying them just a few euro's under a grand per year, without the ignition test it was 1300

I have completed their ignition test with flying colours, im fully licensed, but im a bloke and 24, driving a 1.0 car (i know but i was hoping for cheaper insurance by doing this)
.
.
.
.

jackncoke wrote: »

24,1 litre car and ur paying just under a grand?u are getting robbed

This!

You are being absolutely ravaged by them! I'm 24 and had insurance for a year on my second provisional and it was just over €1100 with Asgard who I got quoted through insure.ie.
After a year's no claims bonus they dropped the price to €950 and then down to €730 when I passed my test. 3rd party fire and theft I might add. At the time I got the quote I checked other companies; even with the full license hibernian quoted me €1500!
I changed my car from a 99 Punto to a 1.2l 2006 Fabia Sport and also changed to fully comp and with Asgard it still comes in under a grand. Having my license less than a year that ain't bad. I'd change who you're with asap tbh.

Actual campaigns to pressure young drivers into driving carefully? That's absolutely pathetic.

kowloon

greenfly wrote: »

What is the story with this crap, im sick of hearing on the radio and in the papers that because i am a young male driver I;

1) I drive too fast
2) Im going to kill any girl in my passanger seat

Well I don't know about the rest of you but I generally do kill the girl in the passenger seat, but it's for entirely different motives and not due to my driving; I'm usually parked in a dark siding somewhere.

dionsiseire

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Silly boy. You only need to be 26. You just wasted 8 years asleep.

pffft you cant time travel in 2 year segments, it had to be 10 years at a time, its like physics or something like that

Lord Derpington

Tigger wrote: »

there is no history of the subjegation an' misrepresentation of young men

How is this revelant at all?
How would the subjugation or misrepresentation of somone in the past, effect wether or not they could now be publicisied as part of a stastic now?

AnonoBoy

dionsiseire wrote: »

pffft you cant time travel in 2 year segments, it had to be 10 years at a time, its like physics or something like that

You are wise beyond your years Sir. I bow to your superior time-travelling knowledge.

GreeBo

The problem is not that young males do not know how to drive a car..they do...they get plenty of practice.
The problem is their attitudes to driving.

There is no question that a young person is going to have better reactions, co-ordination etc,etc than older people.
Accidents are rarely caused or avoided due to reactions or someone having bad co-ordination (yeah you might hit/miss a dog or scrape the wall etc but I mean REAL accidents)

Older drivers are more likely to drive in a more careful manner, anticipating rather than reacting, doing things "just in case" rather than "shure that never happens".


Basically, I've yet to see a Fiesta with 4 40 year old blokes in it doing handbrake turns on their way up to the hellfire club.

Sharik

If you are a safe driver, these campaigns are not addressed to you. Just look away!

Insurance companies are businesses. If you have an idea how to segregate a certain part of population for special insurance rates, they'll jump on it.

Tigger

greenfly wrote: »

How is this revelant at all?
How would the subjugation or misrepresentation of somone in the past, effect wether or not they could now be publicisied as part of a stastic now?

do you mean why should it be or do you mean why is it

the fact is that groups that have been treated badly in the past have special protection; both in law and in soceity

the why is liberal guilt the why should is it shouldn't

Smart Bug

Just for interest, can anyone point me in the direction of actual figures of the amount of current licence holders, broken down by gender/age etc?

AnonoBoy

greenfly wrote: »

Your missing the point, he is not saying that there is a stastic to show it.
But rather if there was, would it be accectable to say it?
To promote it on the radio, TV and newspaper? I very much doubt it

No I didn't miss the point at all. I understand what he's saying completely. However there are not figures that back up his assertion so therefore it would not be allowable to use it as part of an advertisement.

However - there ARE facts, figures, stats and studies etc. that show that young men cause more fatalities on the road than any other demographic. So you can't complain when that is used in a road safety ad.

It's just the way it is.

Tigger

GreeBo wrote: »

Basically, I've yet to see a Fiesta with 4 40 year old blokes in it doing handbrake turns on their way up to the hellfire club.

ah the memories

i had my first crash on that road

dionsiseire

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

This!

You are being absolutely ravaged by them! I'm 24 and had insurance for a year on my second provisional and it was just over €1100 with Asgard who I got quoted through insure.ie.
After a year's no claims bonus they dropped the price to €950 and then down to €730 when I passed my test. 3rd party fire and theft I might add. At the time I got the quote I checked other companies; even with the full license hibernian quoted me €1500!
I changed my car from a 99 Punto to a 1.2l 2006 Fabia Sport and also changed to fully comp and with Asgard it still comes in under a grand. Having my license less than a year that ain't bad. I'd change who you're with asap tbh.

Actual campaigns to pressure young drivers into driving carefully? That's absolutely pathetic.

I am Fully Comp, my insurance after 1 year named driving and passing ignition test was 920, when renewal came up i got quoted 990 by hibernian because base costs have gone up (so 1 year no claim driving and the price went up) i got qoutes from all around and the general consensus was 1300 for a 24 year old with 2 years experience fully licensed and fully comp

ive not tried asgard, is insure.ie the only way to get quoted by them?

Smart Bug

dionsiseire wrote: »

I am Fully Comp, my insurance after 1 year named driving and passing ignition test was 920, when renewal came up i got quoted 990 by hibernian because base costs have gone up (so 1 year no claim driving and the price went up) i got qoutes from all around and the general consensus was 1300 for a 24 year old with 2 years experience fully licensed and fully comp

ive not tried asgard, is insure.ie the only way to get quoted by them?

Go to 123.ie

I'm 29, second year's incurance on a 1.0 and I was quoted 1,165 from Hibernian for renewal, Quinn quoted me 985 (all 3rd party) so I went to 123.ie, where I got fully comp for 670.

Lord Derpington

Tigger wrote: »

do you mean why should it be or do you mean why is it

the fact is that groups that have been treated badly in the past have special protection; both in law and in soceity

the why is liberal guilt the why should is it shouldn't

I get what your saying, and i agree that it special protection in both in law and in soceity shouldn't be there.

tech77

kowloon wrote: »

Well I don't know about the rest of you but I generally do kill the girl in the passenger seat, but it's for entirely different motives and not due to my driving; I'm usually parked in a dark siding somewhere.

You serial killers make me sick.
Nobody ever makes a radio ad that stereotypes you.

Ye get away with murder.

KevR

Fink Goddie wrote: »

That may cause a crash yeh but how often would it cause deaths?

I think it's high time the RSA and the Gardai tackled some of the actual causes of accidents rather than just tackling speed (which only reduces the severity of the accidents). It would be better to reduce the number of accidents instead of trying to reduce severity whilst not really reducing the number of accidents.

We could all drive around at 10kmh and nobody would ever get killed in accidents but we would still have accidents because the causes (lack of awareness, lapses in concentration, non-use of indicators, tailgating, inappropriate overtaking...etc) haven't been eliminated.
Of course everyone driving at 10kmh could never work because the country could not function properly.

It's a fact - some of our roads are capable of carrying cars safely at high speed. We have spent/are spending billions on new high speed roads.
It's a fact - our cars are perfectly capable of travelling safely at these high speeds.
It's a fact - people doing stupid **** cause accidents.

With the way the RSA and Gardai go on about speed constantly, people are actually starting to believe that they are good and safe drivers just because they stay below the speed limit. This couldn't possibly be any further from the truth.

Also, with all their nagging about speed, for example telling us it's dangerous to drive at 125kmh on a motorway, all the while there are country lanes (barely wide enough for one car) with 80kmh speed limits where people can legally kill themselves. They can't even manage to get these speed limits lowered. Give me a break.

Cuddlesworth

Fink Goddie wrote: »

That may cause a crash yeh but how often would it cause deaths?
I'm sure there are girl racers, but there are way more men that drive aggressively, the insurance companies are not being sexist for the fun of it, the statistics spell it out.
there's no arguing with it really.

Until the day the RSA and insurance company's release all their statistics I refuse to believe any of it. Independent studies in the UK have shown that per mileage driven women are far more likely to be involved in a accident. There are way too many socio-economic factors to simply pigeon hole men as being bad drivers, and yet we are over and over again.

Loomis

dionsiseire wrote: »

I am Fully Comp, my insurance after 1 year named driving and passing ignition test was 920, when renewal came up i got quoted 990 by hibernian because base costs have gone up (so 1 year no claim driving and the price went up) i got qoutes from all around and the general consensus was 1300 for a 24 year old with 2 years experience fully licensed and fully comp

ive not tried asgard, is insure.ie the only way to get quoted by them?

Not sure really. Just tried the main companies here and a few brokers the first time I got insured and the lowest quote was from insure.ie. When I got the policy I then found out who it was from.

Also try http://www.brittoninsurance.com They seem to give very good quotes for anyone on a full license. My parents moved to them a couple years ago and their already low policies dropped even further with them.

Fink Goddie

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Until the day the RSA and insurance company's release all their statistics I refuse to believe any of it. Independent studies in the UK have shown that per mileage driven women are far more likely to be involved in a accident. There are way too many socio-economic factors to simply pigeon hole men as being bad drivers, and yet we are over and over again.

Women may be involved in more accidents yeh, but most of them are minor, you only have to look at the news and papers to see who dies every weekend on the roads, its mainly young men or foreign nationals.

Tigger

KevR wrote: »

I think it's high time the RSA and the Gardai tackled some of the actual causes of accidents rather than just tackling speed (which only reduces the severity of the accidents). It would be better to reduce the number of accidents instead of trying to reduce severity whilst not really reducing the number of accidents.

We could all drive around at 10kmh and nobody would ever get killed in accidents but we would still have accidents because the causes (lack of awareness, lapses in concentration, non-use of indicators, tailgating, inappropriate overtaking...etc) haven't been eliminated.
Of course everyone driving at 10kmh could never work because the country could not function properly.

It's a fact - some of our roads are capable of carrying cars safely at high speed. We have spent/are spending billions on new high speed roads.
It's a fact - our cars are perfectly capable of travelling safely at these high speeds.
It's a fact - people doing stupid **** cause accidents.

With the way the RSA and Gardai go on about speed constantly, people are actually starting to believe that they are good and safe drivers just because they stay below the speed limit. This couldn't possibly be any further from the truth.

Also, with all their nagging about speed, for example telling us it's dangerous to drive at 125kmh on a motorway, all the while there are country lanes (barely wide enough for one car) with 80kmh speed limits where people can legally kill themselves. They can't even manage to get these speed limits lowered. Give me a break.

i also like to drive fast

Fink Goddie

KevR wrote: »

I think it's high time the RSA and the Gardai tackled some of the actual causes of accidents rather than just tackling speed (which only reduces the severity of the accidents). It would be better to reduce the number of accidents instead of trying to reduce severity whilst not really reducing the number of accidents.

We could all drive around at 10kmh and nobody would ever get killed in accidents but we would still have accidents because the causes (lack of awareness, lapses in concentration, non-use of indicators, tailgating, inappropriate overtaking...etc) haven't been eliminated.
Of course everyone driving at 10kmh could never work because the country could not function properly.

It's a fact - some of our roads are capable of carrying cars safely at high speed. We have spent/are spending billions on new high speed roads.
It's a fact - our cars are perfectly capable of travelling safely at these high speeds.
It's a fact - people doing stupid **** cause accidents.

With the way the RSA and Gardai go on about speed constantly, people are actually starting to believe that they are good and safe drivers just because they stay below the speed limit. This couldn't possibly be any further from the truth.

Also, with all their nagging about speed, for example telling us it's dangerous to drive at 125kmh on a motorway, all the while there are country lanes (barely wide enough for one car) with 80kmh speed limits where people can legally kill themselves. They can't even manage to get these speed limits lowered. Give me a break.

Everyone makes mistakes on the roads but if you're driving at a high speed you're not really allowing for the mistakes of others are ya?

Fusion251

I think that generally young male drivers are pretty good to be honest. I can't remember ever having to beep one off the road for doing something stupid! I do think there are FAR to many incompitent drivers on the road though and testing should be a bit more frequent....I cannot believe how many old people have no understanding of how roundabouts and their indicators work....anyway...not going on to rant.

Young drivers get bad press but if you're young and being hit with a big premium (like I was a few years back €2,500 ouch!!) :eek: it's not all doom and gloom, I'm driving a few years now and even with a bigger engine car my insurance is closer to €500 then €2500 so it goes down fast

Fusion

Pace2008

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Women may be involved in more accidents yeh, but most of them are minor, you only have to look at the news and papers to see who dies every weekend on the roads, its mainly young men or foreign nationals.

While it is true that more males are involved in serious accidents, you're committing a potential spotlight fallacy by using papers and news reports in an attempt to prove a point.

Ghost Train wrote: »

Here's the main statistics

Drivers responsable for fatal/serious injury collisions 1996-2004

39% Male 17-24
25% Male 25-34
12% Male 35-49
4% Female 17-24
4% Female 25-34
3% Female 35-49

http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication/upload/speed_mess_3rd_a4_jul07.pdf

That's how you go about it. Easy when you're right.

Fink Goddie

Pace2008 wrote: »

While it is true that more males are involved in serious accidents, you're committing a potential spotlight fallacy by using papers and news reports in an attempt to prove a point.



That's how you go about it. Easy when you're right.

Maybe in the papers, but on the news when they give how many people died and who they are (men), thats proof enough!

Snakeblood

Ghost Train wrote: »

Here's the main statistics

Drivers responsable for fatal/serious injury collisions 1996-2004

39% Male 17-24
25% Male 25-34
12% Male 35-49
4% Female 17-24
4% Female 25-34
3% Female 35-49

http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication/upload/speed_mess_3rd_a4_jul07.pdf

Well, you can prove anything with facts.