New Renewal Forms up

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

I suppose this section means that there's going to be a form FCA2 at some point.

Don't follow

I'd be peeved if it was otherwise, but just for the sake of argument, what happens if the Gardai decide "no, we want character references from everyone"?

Which is why we need clarification on this. My advice stands though and we who have held certs prior to this do not have to fill this in.

Indeed, but for everyone from now on it will be. So some clarification from the Gardai as to what constitutes proof of competence would be good, especially seeing as how there is no list of officially Garda-approved training courses, and how even creating that list would be problematic with monopoly and ngo/state considerations to take into account.

Which is why they won't do it. I think the fact of doing a course will be good enough here. Nobody's going to sign off on people being competent if they're not.

Nope, but they are going to create monster headaches and court cases in the next few years. That's a state-created anti-EU trading practice, right there in black and white.

Eh? There's a place for the dealer name and their all conditional.

In fact, I think that's the first we've heard of it. Which is a bit of a surprise really. You'd think this sort of thing would be flagged a ways off, like the Range and Club SIs were.

Indeed

Yes, but why do they also want an essay as to the "specific type of firearm"? Do I now need to write up "Why my Anschutz 2002CA is better than every other kind of air rifle" or just "Why air rifles are needed for air rifle shooting"?

Amen to that. And the checklist is in need of that too...

Well only if the items on the checklist are mandatory which they're clearly not. Kind of a bit superfluous really seeing as you'll have to go back through the form to see why such and such an item wasn't included.

rrpc

cavan shooter wrote: »

gents look at section 3.2 for a minute, it asks to list accessories such as silencers... and sights.?
Ordinary telescopic sight or is it night sights. Do I include sling/lamp/cheek pouch

Cavan Shooter I went to a lot of trouble to list all the sections and comment on them and even commented on that bit.

You didn't bother reading it

Shame on you.

And yes, I think it's night sights which also require authorisation.

rrpc

whydave wrote: »

what does this mean ......' section 3.5 , Have you complied with the requirements of the Firearms (Secure Accomodation) Order ,2009

Aaaaaaarghhhhhhhh!


Read my comments

cavan shooter

rrpc wrote: »

Cavan Shooter I went to a lot of trouble to list all the sections and comment on them and even commented on that bit.

You didn't bother reading it

Shame on you.

And yes, I think it's night sights which also require authorisation.

I read it all right but it's not clear and what about other/specify:D

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Don't follow

Well, there's this form, FCA1, and it's only for new applications and substitutions. So there'll have to be a new form (FCA2 or FCRA1 or whatever the code becomes) to handle renewals, right?
Otherwise, we'd have to be re-applying every three years until we finally decide it's not worth the trouble and pack it in.

Which is why they won't do it. I think the fact of doing a course will be good enough here. Nobody's going to sign off on people being competent if they're not.

Unless you pay them, of course. In which case, especially in today's economy, it's not worth the hassle. And if the Gardai will accept any old rot as a course, then it'll be a fast race to the bottom...

Eh? There's a place for the dealer name and their all conditional.

The conditional bit is only a condition for a new application, which isn't the problem. The problem is that only a dealer with a pulse ID or a previous Irish-licenced owner can be put into the form, backing up the no-importing-from-egun.de/frankonia policy; which is against the whole notion of free trade in the EU. Someone is going to get miffed enough about this to eventually sue someone else. It's nearly inevitable in this country.

Hey, it'll be easy for me, but I pity the 10/22 owners...

Well only if the items on the checklist are mandatory which they're clearly not. Kind of a bit superfluous really seeing as you'll have to go back through the form to see why such and such an item wasn't included.

It's going to generate a fair few FPU phone calls though when a Super in the rear end of ballywherever decides it's all mandatory. Problem with checklists on forms like this is that one is never going to fit; you nearly need one for each major use case.

cavan shooter

I have a feeling that this is the form for all renewals. Look at section 3.1 (my impression)

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Well, there's this form, FCA1, and it's only for new applications and substitutions. So there'll have to be a new form (FCA2 or FCRA1 or whatever the code becomes) to handle renewals, right?

Nope, same form tick box for 'have held licence in previous 3 years' lets them know if it's a renewal or first time.

The conditional bit is only a condition for a new application, which isn't the problem. The problem is that only a dealer with a pulse ID or a previous Irish-licenced owner can be put into the form

The Dealer's name can be put in and the pulse id isn't mandatory.

Sparks

Hmm. If so cavan, the question arises of what we have to fill out for a renewal; and it rather indicates that when we fill them out this time around, we will have to provide character references, because that has to be filled in in all cases bar substitution. Renewal isn't substitution.

Gah. Messy.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

The Dealer's name can be put in and the pulse id isn't mandatory.

Actually, it is, in the cases where you're filling in that section.
Conditional doesn't seem to mean "conditional" so much as it seems to mean "if this section applies then this is mandatory otherwise leave blank", at least according to the instructions at the top of the form.

And yes, we could do the Irish solution of ignoring what folks write down, but, well. That'd be shame on us, wouldn't it?

Sparks

From the Garda website:

POPULAR QUESTIONS IN RELATION TO NEW FIREARMS LICENSING PROCESSES

Q. What do I do when my current Firearm Certificate expires on 31st July 2009?
A. Do nothing until you receive a letter from the Garda Commissioner which will extend your current firearms certificate for at least three months and a maximum of twelve months. This extension will be free of charge. You will be informed in the letter when you can apply for a new 3 year firearm certificate under the new legislation


Q. Will there be a limit on the number of firearms an individual may have licensed?
A. There is no limit. However, new minimum security standards will now be required of holders of firearm certificates in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for their firearms. The level of security is dependent on the number of firearms certified to an individual.


Q. Who can apply for Training Certificate? What is the age limit? Can a trainee use any firearm?
A. Any person over 14 years of age can apply for a firearms training certificate. The training certificate does not entitle the holder to actually own a firearm and the certificate can only apply to a non-restricted firearm. The person must always be under the supervision of a specified person over 18 years of age who holds a firearm certificate in respect of it. The training certificate shall continue in force for 3 years unless revoked.


Q. Where can I get a new application form for a Firearms Certificate and who do I apply to?
A. All application forms that apply to the new firearms legislation can be obtained at any Garda Station or on www.garda.ie An application for a non restricted firearm certificate shall be made on form FCA1 to the superintendent of the district where the applicant resides. If the application refers to a restricted firearm, the superintendent shall forward the application to the chief superintendent of that division.


Q. How much is a new Firearms Certificate and what is its duration?
A. All new firearms certificates will cost €80 and will remain in force for 3 years from the date it was granted unless revoked. The collection of fees will be outsourced to An Post and no money will now be accepted at Garda Stations for firearms certificates.


Q. Where can I get more information in relation to Firearm Licensing?
A. The Garda Commissioner has issued Guidelines as to the practical application and operation on the firearm acts 1925-2009. These Guidelines should be read as an aid to recently enacted firearms legislation, in particular the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions Act) 2009. The Guidelines are available on www.garda.ie

Sparks

Also, there already is a new FCA2 form:

Irish version

English version

It's for amendments and cancellations of certificates.

clivej

Section 2.1 Have you ever lived at an address other than your current one........................provide details............

In my life time from birth this will run to about 15 different address's of which some I'm not sure of? Oh what to do........................

And this is only the first page.


3.2 They use the word Silencer :eek:

Sparks

And the form for Ranges and Clubs (Form FRPC1) is up as well:

Irish version

English version

Sparks

All these are presumably coming off this SI, announced in todays Iris:

S.I. No. 295 of 2009.
FIREARMS ACTS 1925 TO 2009 (FIREARMS
CERTIFICATE) REGULATIONS 2009.
I, Dermot Ahern, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law
Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by Section
3(3) (as inserted by Section 28 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provision) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009)) and
Section 27 (as inserted by Section 50 of the Criminal Justice Act
2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925)
have made Regulations entitled as above.

Clash

Sparks wrote: »

And the form for Ranges and Clubs (Form FRPC1) is up as well:

Irish version

English version

And not a single link on the Garda home page: www.garda.ie

In fact not even a firearms section on the home page.

In fact what the hell is: garda.ie/Documents/User/whatever?

It's the equivalent of a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory etc.

C4D seems to have a key though :pac:

Sparks

Actually Clash, if you just search for the word "Form", up it pops.
Out-and-out daft, I know. And no luck when searching for "Guidelines"

bigred

Sparks wrote: »

Also, there already is a new FCA2 form:

Irish version

English version

It's for amendments and cancellations of certificates.

In all cases now requires a Super's signature, so no more getting the local lad to do it... hmmm

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Also, there already is a new FCA2 form:

Irish version

English version

It's for amendments and cancellations of certificates.

So no more of a guard crossing something out, making an amedment and then stamping it...

Or will that still happen?

Sparks

Since the licence will be on a plastic credit-card type thing Zara, he couldn't.
Mind you, given the looks I've gotten from customs&immigration abroad when they see my amended cert, that's no bad thing...

SeaFields

Clash wrote: »

And not a single link on the Garda home page: www.garda.ie

In fact not even a firearms section on the home page.

In fact what the hell is: garda.ie/Documents/User/whatever?

It's the equivalent of a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory etc.

C4D seems to have a key though :pac:

Clash, just search for "firearm" on the garda.ie website and all the forms, FAQ's, etc. are there.

Jonty

Deleted User wrote: »

So no more of a guard crossing something out, making an amedment and then stamping it...

Or will that still happen?

no because the new licenses are credit card style and will have to be returned to Dublin, scrapped, and printed again.

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

So no more of a guard crossing something out, making an amedment and then stamping it...

Or will that still happen?

Hard to do with a credit card

Jonty

Sparks wrote: »

Since the licence will be on a plastic credit-card type thing Zara, he couldn't.
Mind you, given the looks I've gotten from customs&immigration abroad when they see my amended cert, that's no bad thing...

LOL

rrpc

rrpc wrote: »

Hard to do with a credit card

Jonty wrote: »

no because the new licenses are credit card style and will have to be returned to Dublin, scrapped, and printed again.

Credit card style licences? Now that is cool!

However, will it be like a UK drivers licence where the credit card is just a 'convenience' and you are actually issued with a paper licence containing all info, endorsements etc? Or will it just be the card?

Jonty

rrpc wrote: »

Hard to do with a credit card

I dunno, you hear of lads that are fairly handy with that kind of thing alright.:D

Only Joking!!

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Since the licence will be on a plastic credit-card type thing Zara, he couldn't.
Mind you, given the looks I've gotten from customs&immigration abroad when they see my amended cert, that's no bad thing...

I had a big chat with a guy in the Ferry Port trying to prove I hadn't added on 4900 extra rounds to my licence...

So I will be happy to see the system. But the old one was kind of cool in that way - when I was issued a cert of a .223 instead of a .22, my local just crossed out the extra 3.

Clash

SeaFields wrote: »

Clash, just search for "firearm" on the garda.ie website and all the forms, FAQ's, etc. are there.

Thanks, but it's not really the point.

There's going to be lots of people who will get these letters that say go to the garda website and theres nothing there :mad:

Not even having a section for firearms is crazy :eek:

Sparks

It's worse than that Clash, the links to those forms don't say what they're for and one (the Irish version of FRPC1) doesn't even have the right form number in it's link (it says it's the english version of form PC20 under the Act to 2006!).

Going back a bit, but I seem to recall discussion here about storage standards being released (or suggested, not sure) for different calibres of rifles on one of the firearms bills. Is that not what the 'Firearm (Secure Accommodation) Order' is most likely to be based on?

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

Going back a bit, but I seem to recall discussion here about storage standards being released (or suggested, not sure) for different calibres of rifles on one of the firearms bills. Is that not what the 'Firearm (Secure Accommodation) Order' is most likely to be based on?

We'll have to wait and see...