Two Week Ban from Soccer - Extremely harsh.

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Hi Admin,

I would like my two week ban from the Soccer Forum to be reviewed, as the Moderator is refusing to even discuss it with me.

There has been an exchange of PMs, which I will publish with his permission.

Esteemed Football Manager Bobby Robson died this morning, and there is a thread about this.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055637214

In this thread, I posted the following comment (I have to link to the infraction post, as the comment has since been deleted)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055637319

I am contesting the ban on the following grounds, which I feel are reasonable grounds for contesting a ban, as I feel I was posting within the charter.

The Soccer Forum Charter has this to say

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56561133&postcount=2

There is a misconception on soccer that calling someone a name is bannable. It isn't. Calling someone a name for the sake of abuse is bannable. We all like to use exclamations when we're making a passionate case, If someone said, "I think Delaney has acted like a dick for doing X, Y and Z", then personally I woudn't ban the person. If on the other hand they posted "Delaney is just a dick" I'd probably warn if not ban them.

The difference is, one case the poster is giving an opinion on the actions of Delaney, the other is outright namecalling. We have a place for one and not the other. In the same we say attack the post and not the poster for boards users, attack the actions and not the person for non-boards users.

Yes, I name-called, however I did not directly name anyone in my post. The moderator is of the opinion that I think he is "fúcking stupid" (language which I do not appreciate in a PM from a mod, but that is an aside) for pointing this out.

However, even if the moderator deems me to have abused the person in question, surely I gave context enough to warrant calling the person a "snivelling shítbag". Anyone who puts a 74-year-old man, recovering from a stroke, to take questions from angry callers on the Joe Duffy Liveline Show, is, in my opinion, a "snivelling shítbag". I have stated my opinion, I have given my reasons for my opinion and I stand by it.

I did not call someone a name for the sake of abuse.

****************************

Since I started typing this thread, the moderator has given me permission to publish the PM converation in full

therecklessone wrote:

Des wrote:

therecklessone wrote:

Des wrote:

You've taken things too far this time.

And what are you going to do about it?

Do I have permission to publish the PMs in Helpdesk, should I decide to make a thread?

If you post all of them, then yes.

In this instance, I feel the line "And what are you going to do about it" to be baiting me. I made these feelings clear to the moderator.

Here is the full exchange of PMs.

(I am only publishing every PM because these were the conditions which the moderator stipulated when granting permission to publish)

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Infraction Notice

therecklessone wrote:

Dear Des,

You have received an infraction at boards.ie.

Reason: Inappropriate Language

---

For abuse.

How you possibly thought that was going to be ok I'll never know Des, you've reported enough examples of abusive language in the past to know better.

In addition, it's a real classy move using the death of a gentleman to have a pop at one of your enemies, all the more so given your response to other users' delight at the possible demise of CCFC.

---

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
[post]61394347[/post]

I'll never forget the day that snivelling little shítbag put Bobby Robson on Liveline to be torn apart by the baying masses.
:mad:

Des wrote: »

This is a disgrace actually.

The man is recovering from a stroke, he is 74 years of age.

This is the worst thing of the whole debacle. Treating this man like this.

Where the fúck is Delaney?

Where the fúck is Staunton?

Cowardly lowlifes to do this to a great elder statesman of the game.

A true gentleman of the game, and I'm sorry he's died.

All the best,
boards.ie

Ban Notice

therecklessone wrote:

Hi Des,

You have been banned from Soccer for the following duration:

14 Day(s)

for the following reason:

Abuse. That's quite deliberate Des, and it hasn't escaped my notice that you've posted it less than 24hrs since I explained to you your infraction record would zero out tonight.

You know better, you report enough examples of it yourself.

Providing your ban is not permanent, it will be lifted automatically after 14 Day(s). You will get an automatic message informing you that the ban is lifted. If you do not receive this message after the alloted time, please PM a moderator to clarify.
Also, please be aware that an abusive response to this automated message may result in an extension of your ban, or in extreme cases, being banned from the entire site.

Thanks,

Forum Moderator.

To which I replied

Des wrote:

I ahve no idea what you are accusing me of here.

A two week ban for this is a complete joke.


What happened to "in context"?

You are targeting me because I question moderator decisions.

The context of this is that I have a previous PM from this mod telling me that I am tiresome.

I questioned a different infraction I received earlier becasue I felt I was being targeted at that time too, I was infracted, while others who did the same as me were not. I did not report the posts, as I did not think they warranted infraction.

He replied to my PM

I also sent these two PMs

Des wrote:

Ah, I see exactly what's going on here.

You know it, and I know it.

You must take me for a complete idiot actually.
:rolleyes:

Des wrote:

...and finally.

I'd really like you to explain to me who I actually abused in the post?

No names were mentioned.

This ban in tenuous at best.

Are you going to answer me, or stonewall me, as seems to be the M.O of the soccer mods of late?

To which he replied

therecklessone wrote:

I am not stonewalling you, I am dealing with other issues and am replying when I have the chance.

You do not decide my priorities on this forum.

If you think the ban is harsh then take your complaint to the Help Desk, I will not be rescinding it unless instructed to by an Admin.

Thank you.

To which I replied

Des wrote:

lol, so the soccer mods can circle the wagon?

I don't think so.

Will you at least explain to me who I am supposed to have abused?

You've taken things too far this time.

To which he replied

therecklessone wrote:

And what are you going to do about it?

To which I replied

Des wrote:

I don't know what is even supposed to mean.

Are you trying to bait me?

lol, nice try. :rolleyes:

To which he replied

therecklessone wrote:

I am trying to bait nobody.

Your post was directed at John Delaney, you must think I am fúcking stupid to try and claim otherwise. It is abusive, and you have been banned for that.

Now if you think I have overstepped the mark complain to an Admin. If you start a Help Desk thread I will remain out of it unless requested to contribute by an Admin, and I'll ensure all of the other mods will do the same.

Whinging at me by PM will get you nowhere, the ban stands unless I am instructed to remove it.

This is my final reply to you.

************************************************

I would like my ban overturned, and I feel I have presented my case in the proper fashion.

I did not break the charter.

I have been victimised here.

GuanYin

Ok, as you're quoting part of the Charter I wrote, I'd like to clarify.

I never intended and I don't think anyone would reasonably argue that my example of calling someone a dick in a moment of anger is anywhere close to the same thing as using the language and term you did in directing it at someone you frequently criticize over a year after the incident.

The spirit of the forum and that text you quoted means we try allow for a moment of passion in the game or the context of the game.

This is not the same thing, you have a deep harbored grudge that you trumpet at every given opportunity. This is about respect, for the forum to change and improve towards the way most users, including yourself, have said they would like, posters need to have some amount of respect in their posting. They can't look at the rules, see if they think they can use a clause to launch a premeditated tirade.... that's not moving forward.

Regarding the victim card. No Des, you are not targeted. You're just treated like any user, with no special exemptions, which may seem like the same thing, but isn't. It strikes me as strange that you try argue and hide behind the rules given your attempts to have them enforced to the letter when you see something posted that you do not like. The soccer mods may notice and not like that, but you won't be "picked on" for it.

BuffyBot

Having spent more time than I would like reading this, I do think that you brought this one upon your own head I'm afraid.

For someone who has moments of sense, you added one to the other side of the scale on this occasion.

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GuanYin wrote: »

Regarding the victim card. No Des, you are not targeted. You're just treated like any user, with no special exemptions, which may seem like the same thing, but isn't. It strikes me as strange that you try argue and hide behind the rules given your attempts to have them enforced to the letter when you see something posted that you do not like. The soccer mods may notice and not like that, but you won't be "picked on" for it.

Well, that's not the impression I get from the PMs I've received from the same moderator, but anyway, if you say it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen.

Also, you yourself did not reply to a recent PM.

There are still posts in that thread doing the same as I did, which have not been infracted.

BuffyBot wrote: »

Having spent more time than I would like reading this,

I find this attitude baffling from an Admin tbh, I could have just come here shouting the odds, given no background as people usually do.

Instead I presented my full case for review, and it gets waved away like this?

I am disappointed by the outcome and this attitude shown to me by an Admin, but if the Admin don't even know what they want from Helpdesk, then what hope do the users?

I expect more than a "like it or lump it" tbh, but I suppose I won't get that now that an Admin has had their say, however curt.

Disappointed and disbelieving.

BuffyBot

Let's face it, it's a little rich coming from someone who's been dished out his share of "short" replies to folks on this site to come to us complaining about a curt response.

However, it wasn't meant to be curt, but it was meant to be concise. It certainly wasn't waved away - I simply don't think you've got a leg to stand on here. You should have known better. In fact, I suspect you did know better, and went and did it anyway.

I'm not quite sure what more you want from us, apart from a desicion which supports your POV.

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BuffyBot wrote: »

However, it wasn't meant to be curt, but it was meant to be concise. It certainly wasn't waved away - I simply don't think you've got a leg to stand on here..

OK, and I have to accept that.

BuffyBot wrote: »

You should have known better. In fact, I suspect you did know better, and went and did it anyway.

I actually thought, and still do think, that I was posting within the charter.

The Senior Soccer Moderator disagrees with me.

An Admin disagrees with me.

So yes, I am left with no further recourse.

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what more you want from us, apart from a desicion which supports your POV.

I would like my Helpdesk thread to be treated with a little more respect than a simple wave of the hand and to be told I haven't got a leg to stand on.

I spent time constructing that post so whatever Admin wouldn't have to waste time with back and forth asking me to "provide examples", "show us what you mean" and similar type posts which appear in most other Helpdesk threads.

I will know in future that I shouldn't bother. :rolleyes:

BuffyBot

I would like my Helpdesk thread to be treated with a little more respect than a simple wave of the hand and to be told I haven't got a leg to stand on.

Which is has been. I'm sorry if you don't like the phrasing, but the point remains the same.

I spent time constructing that post so whatever Admin wouldn't have to waste time with back and forth asking me to "provide examples", "show us what you mean" and similar type posts which appear in most other Helpdesk threads.

Which, to a point, is good. However sometimes being concise helps. I, as you may have discovered, prefer concise

WhiteWashMan

Des wrote: »

Instead I presented my full case for review, and it gets waved away like this?

AH yes, the old, 'You obviously have no idea' defense.

If at first someone doesnt agree with you, then they obviously 'dont get it', right?

Sorry Des, even I think you over stepped the mark.
And to be honest, you appear the one that does a lot of the shouting from the rooftops, and the nit picking and the stirring in my eyes.
Apparantly though there should be a different rule for you, eh? Just becuase you posted a long post?

I fail to see any reason why a ban shouldnt be handed out tbh.

by the way, there are no senior moderators in the soccer forum. There are only moderators.