Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Fromvert

Helix wrote: »

the thing is that with him handing in a transfer request he forgoes his 10% of any transfer fee, so real might have reduced their offer by that 10% as soon as it went in

Then the offer would be the exact same, so why didn't Liverpool except the first offer.
We don't know the price and probably never will. I'm gutted he's gone but I wish him luck with Real. Not sure who I would want Liverpool to buy, not Poulsen anyway.

Defour only watched him play us last season and he played really well.
Aqualini has generally looked tidy in midfield and has a good shot.

Thats all I know about them two lads.

I'm looking forward to the next week.

Dont be at yourself

joe123 wrote:

Well there is always the option of dropping Gerrard back to CM and putting Villa just behind Torres.

I'd eat my hat. Rafa played gerrard everywhere but CM when he arrived, he played him at right wing when we'd biscan in the middle! he's not going to change his mind now, and nor should he!

Chardee MacDennis

joe123 wrote: »

Well there is always the option of dropping Gerrard back to CM and putting Villa just behind Torres.

This is what Mark Wright thinks we should do. As he said that sort of strikeforce would strike fear into the premiership. Gerrard/Villa/Torres.

A good point he mentioned though was that if we did sign Villa over Aquilani that the club and fans would recieve a way bigger lift and boost in morale.

Anyways Aquilani PLUS someone else. A straight swap of Aquilani for Xabi would be a major step back imo.

Rafa Benitez > Mark Wright tbh...

does anyone have that football365 quote about that idea, sums it up in my opinion...

Helix

Helix wrote: »

the thing is that with him handing in a transfer request he forgoes his 10% of any transfer fee, so real might have reduced their offer by that 10% as soon as it went in

How do you know this?

Is it not a loyalty bonus he loses from Liverpool?

Mr Alan

Helix wrote: »

the thing is that with him handing in a transfer request he forgoes his 10% of any transfer fee, so real might have reduced their offer by that 10% as soon as it went in

he didn't hand in a transfer request afaik. that was just paper talk.

rossie1977

Boggles wrote: »

Of course they have debt, they have a spanking new stadium to show for it though.

it doesn't matter if they have a spanking new gold plated stadium, they still have debts of more than £416m

jasonorr wrote:

Arsenal don't spend ANY money and so can pay their debts

so recent recruits Andrei Arshavin and Thomas Vermaelen didn't cost a reported £25m-£30m and instead were free

Helix

rarnes1 wrote: »

How do you know this?

Is it not a loyalty bonus he loses from Liverpool?

if youre sold without a transfer request youre entitled to 10% of the transfer fee as a loyalty bonus as per most contracts these days. its a standard issue clause

L'prof

rossie1977 wrote: »

it doesn't matter if they have a spanking new gold plated stadium, they still have debts of more than £416m



so recent recruits Andrei Arshavin and Thomas Vermaelen didn't cost a reported £25m-£30m and instead were free

Net spend my friend, net spend!

Helix

rossie1977 wrote: »

it doesn't matter if they have a spanking new gold plated stadium, they still have debts of more than £416m

£318m as of may this year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/arsenal/5314550/Alisher-Usmanov-offers-to-pay-off-chunk-of-Arsenals-debt.html

jesus_thats_gre

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Nah I'll tell.

The gooner is wrong. Just because it happened at United doesn't mean it'll happen here.

We'll spend, very quickly I'd imagine too.

I was gonna suggest to him that he should be more worried about what happens to the 40m that Arsenal just got

Mr Alan

Helix, this is from Tony Barrett;

Tony Barrett wrote:

They said they would pay 30m on Sunday and the fee won't have gone down since then.

30m-34m it is.

Boggles

rossie1977 wrote: »

it doesn't matter if they have a spanking new gold plated stadium, they still have debts of more than £416m

Are you serious??

It doesn't matter they have a state of the art 60,000 seater stadium which is full sometimes 2/3 times a week?

:rolleyes:

rossie1977

Helix wrote: »

fee reports are all over the gaff

€25.5 in the spanish media apparently

spanish press reporting €30m or $43.2m

reuters and associated press both using the spanish figures http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-41534320090804 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/08/04/xabi.alonso.ap/index.html

Helix

rossie1977 wrote: »

spanish press reporting €30m or $43.2m

reuters and associated press both using the spanish figures http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-41534320090804 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/08/04/xabi.alonso.ap/index.html

so £25m then

zing

Now the big question is how much of the 30 ish million is made available to Rafa. One would hope all but I'd say G&H may be very very tempted to keep some of it for their good friends in RBS. Hopefully that won't happen though

Mr Alan

not this summer imo, with Rafa recently having renegotiated the control he has over transfers signed a new deal, i'd imagine he was assured the guts of player sales.

rossie1977

Boggles wrote: »

Are you serious??

It doesn't matter they have a state of the art 60,000 seater stadium which is full sometimes 2/3 times a week?

:rolleyes:

mgm mirage hotels are 95% full every night of the week 24/7, didn't stop them getting into trouble with their debts (they were on the verge of going bankrupt a few months ago), this is a company that brought in $7 billion in revenue last year

arsenal debt as a % of revenue is far greater than mgms

NukaCola

With Xabi in the squad we could have done with another CM as we were faily light as it stood. We need 2 CM in IMO.

PHB

Independently of any views on United, I think it's hard not to say that Liverpool are a weakened team right now.

Who they replace Alonso with is the big question, but if they don't replace him, I fully think its unlikely they'll challenge for the league. Alonso's passing is hugely important against weaker teams. Either they need to get someone in who can do that, or Lucas needs to take a massive step up.

Poulsen is not the player that they need, too defensive. Aquilani is a good player, but imo not in Alonso's class.

Shall be interesting to see what happens now.

Boggles

rossie1977 wrote: »

mgm mirage hotels are 95% full every night of the week 24/7, didn't stop them getting into trouble with their debts (they were on the verge of going bankrupt a few months ago), this is a company that brought in $7 billion in revenue last year

arsenal debt as a % of revenue is far greater than mgms

WTF??

therecklessone

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jesus_thats_gre

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

We need 2 CM in IMO.

You what?

NukaCola

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You what?

What?

rossie1977

Helix wrote: »

£318m as of may this year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/arsenal/5314550/Alisher-Usmanov-offers-to-pay-off-chunk-of-Arsenals-debt.html

someone is lying

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/22/premierleague

deise48

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Morzadec

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

What?

Who?

Helix

rossie1977 wrote: »

someone is lying

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/22/premierleague

thats almost a year old, the other one is 3 months old

deise48

Mr Alan wrote: »

I have faith in Rafa having the ability to replace Alonso with the quids we'd be getting for him. Rafa excels in buying central players.

is lucas one of them?

jesus_thats_gre

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

What?

I was confused. Was reading that as two central defenders for some reason.

Mr Alan

deise48 wrote: »

is lucas one of them?

yep.

view Lucas as being a very good buy, with the potential to be a great one.

Fromvert

deise48 wrote: »

is lucas one of them?

If we where to sell Lucas right now we would make a profit. Yes Lucas is one of them.

NukaCola

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I was confused. Was reading that as two central defenders for some reason.

:pac:

I`m just saying we were light in CM with Xabi as it was and we need to sign two CM. A replacement for Xabi and another Midfielder.

Headshot

Fromvert wrote: »

If we where to sell Lucas right now we would make a profit. Yes Lucas is one of them.

out of interest how much was lucas bought for ?

whatawaster

wow. I've been expecting it all summer, but it didn't make reading the BBC headline any easier. Great player.
To the future . . .

Our transfers this summer:
IN:
Johnson 17.5m
OUT:
Alonso 30m (at least i'd say)
Arbeloa 3.5m
Leto 3m

NET SPEND: -19 million.

I would imagine we have a minimum of 40m to spend therefore, which would bring our net up to 20 million for this season.
I'd also be fairly confident Rafa will be given the bulk/some of the Keane money to spend. After all there would have been no point in selling him otherwise.
Dossena will also probably leave in the next week or two. I think it would be reasonable (but by no means certain)(but certainly more fun) to suppose that we have 50m to spend. That would only make our Net spend over the last 2 years a total of 35 million or 17.5 a year - in line with Rafa's average since he joined.

So, what to do with 50 million
We need a defender of some description - no need to break the bank here.
We need a backup for Mascherano - again no need to spend too much. Perhaps this is what the Poulsen link is. On loan or more 4/5 million he'd be good experienced backup.
We need a replacement for Alonso - someone in the 15-20 million range.
We need an AM/Forward - 20-25 million possibly.

Would anyone be dissatisfied with Distin, Poulsen, Aquilani, possibly Silva (or someone similar)?

jesus_thats_gre

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

:pac:

I`m just saying we were light in CM with Xabi as it was and we need to sign two CM. A replacement for Xabi and another Midfielder.

I agree completely. I fully expect that to happen too.

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

out of interest how much was lucas bought for ?

5m

Hephaestus

whatawaster wrote: »

5m

Was it not £6m?

Hephaestus

Hephaestus wrote: »

Was it not £6m?

I thought it was 9m

Mr Alan

it varies from 5-8, with the more reputable sources quoting 5.5 iirc.

even if it was 8, still a good buy when you look at similar players and potential for improvement (which is happening all the time)

ilovelamp2000

SlickRic wrote: »

reported.

the thing is, Headshot's actually speaking the truth. it's an awful summer to buy, and if fergie thinks he can make do until at least January, then he's damn right to do so.

Sad.

It's got nothing to do with Fergie.

United racked up losses of 27m last year, 26m the year before. They needed to balance the books. They sold Ronaldo to do so.

whatawaster

http://www.lfchistory.net/stats_transfers_by_manager.asp?list=Get&manager_id=20&InOut=1&submit1=Submit

got the Lucas figures from here. Seems to be generally quite accurate

Guy:Incognito

Gutted about Xabi. Was really hoping against hope.

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

not this summer imo, with Rafa recently having renegotiated the control he has over transfers signed a new deal, i'd imagine he was assured the guts of player sales.

The problem there though is that he may have been assured it but that was all before refinancing so I doubt it's worth the paper it wasn't written on. I can't see it being put into a contract either as it would be way too binding unless there were a huge number of get out clauses - like say a major economic downturn/recession ? or those two ^%$&!#* having to put their hands into their own pockets for a change and put up some further securities against the clubs loans (which they will of course try to get back out of the club by whatever means) ?

I'm hoping he gets every penny/cent and more to reinvest in the squad - right now I'm just not so sure that he will

ilovelamp2000

whatawaster wrote: »

wow. I've been expecting it all summer, but it didn't make reading the BBC headline any easier. Great player.
To the future . . .

Our transfers this summer:
IN:
Johnson 17.5m
OUT:
Alonso 30m (at least i'd say)
Arbeloa 3.5m
Leto 3m

NET SPEND: -19 million.

I would imagine we have a minimum of 40m to spend therefore, which would bring our net up to 20 million for this season.
I'd also be fairly confident Rafa will be given the bulk/some of the Keane money to spend. After all there would have been no point in selling him otherwise.
Dossena will also probably leave in the next week or two. I think it would be reasonable (but by no means certain)(but certainly more fun) to suppose that we have 50m to spend. That would only make our Net spend over the last 2 years a total of 35 million or 17.5 a year - in line with Rafa's average since he joined.

So, what to do with 50 million
We need a defender of some description - no need to break the bank here.
We need a backup for Mascherano - again no need to spend too much. Perhaps this is what the Poulsen link is. On loan or more 4/5 million he'd be good experienced backup.
We need a replacement for Alonso - someone in the 15-20 million range.
We need an AM/Forward - 20-25 million possibly.

Would anyone be dissatisfied with Distin, Poulsen, Aquilani, possibly Silva (or someone similar)?

On the net spend thing - it would be worth consulting the accounts to find the true figure. (which sadly I have done)

It's a lot higher than anyone would have really thought.

In the last three financial years, up to 2008, our net spend for those years has been more than 100m.

zing

zing wrote: »

The problem there though is that he may have been assured it but that was all before refinancing so I doubt it's worth the paper it wasn't written on. I can't see it being put into a contract either as it would be way too binding unless there were a huge number of get out clauses - like say a major economic downturn/recession ? or those two ^%$&!#* having to put their hands into their own pockets for a change and put up some further securities against the clubs loans (which they will of course try to get back out of the club by whatever means) ?

I'm hoping he gets every penny/cent and more to reinvest in the squad - right now I'm just not so sure that he will

Everyone knew about the refinacing in July long before Rafa signed.

whatawaster

Rosco1982 wrote: »

On the net spend thing - it would be worth consulting the accounts to find the true figure. (which sadly I have done)

It's a lot higher than anyone would have really thought.

In the last three financial years, up to 2008, our net spend for those years has been more than 100m.

please tell me how that could possibly be true? Is there a definition of Net Spend in the accounts?

Since summer 2006 (3 seasons worth of transfers)
Bellamy 6m
Palleta 2m
Aurelio 0
Pennant 6.7m
Kuyt 9m
Lucas 5m
Torres 20m
Voronin 0
Benny 5m
Babel 11.5m
Insua 1.3m
Skrtel 6.5m
Mascherano 17m
Degen 0m
Dossena 7m
Cavalieri 3.5m
N'Gog 1.5m
Keane 19m
Riera 8m

total 133 million total expenditure.
Now these couldn't be too inaccurate. I'm not going to go into the outlays, but needless to say they are substantial also

noodler

Headshot wrote: »

Jebus how did i suggest that ,iv never said a bad word against rafa, i mention debt and im attacked.

....

mike65 wrote: »

25 million euro? LOL, the Madridista PR machine must be leaking nonsense out to be picked up on.

Obviously no reason to believe reports in England aren't pandering to us either.

212m in one summer though. I don't want to wish anything bad on Xabi but wouldn't mind seeing Real go trophyless. One things for sure, Real will be one hell of a Pes/Fifa team in October.

ilovelamp2000

I can't honestly say how the figures are the way they are, but this is an extract from the accounts:

Financial Year Ending 2008 2007 2006
Purchases 69,966 69,972 41,753
Sales 29,740 25,946 16,838
Net Transfer Activity 40,226 44,026 24,915


I'd provide a link but they aren't avaliable freely online, I downloaded PDF's from the Companies House website.

jesus_thats_gre

Those numbers don't make sense, i.e. they don't add up at all.

ilovelamp2000

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Those numbers don't make sense, i.e. they don't add up at all.

They're taken straight from the audited accounts of Liverpool Football Club.

It's only as far as July 2008.