Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Mitch Connor

Cyrus wrote: »

if they didnt win in the previous season and they dont improve......

yes it does mean they arent good enough

Stupid, just stupid.

The players individual performance may not improve in terms of their ability. Having a better manager with better tactics can improve the team, having essien back can improve the team. Getting a bit more lucky can push you on in a title hunt etc.

Is it unreasonable to suggest Drogba probably won't improve in terms of ability? Or Lampard, or Ballack, or Terry? Do you think they are going to improve as players? What do you think is more likely, a 31 year old to improve, or a 21 year old to improve? That doesn't mean that they aren't currently good enough at their current level.

Many factors can influence the success of a team - not only the individual talents of the players in it.

But sure, go on with you simplistic argument cause it suits your agenda.

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

Nothing, but what exactly is so wrong with ridiculing his opinion if one finds it ridiculous?

What is ridicules about what he said?

mike65

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What is ridicules about what he said?

Hmmmm :pac:

Good to see the Poulsen nonsense being peddled by Sky put to bed.

Hobart

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What is ridicules about what he said?

Lol...tbh

The answer is in the question.

noodler

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Are Gerrard and Torres not the main thrust of the team?

They are in the final third/box but you need to look a little deeper. Xabi was usually the difference between having 60-40 possession for VS having 40-60 against.

BolBill wrote: »

I think its awful to sell Xabi, he was our best midfielder last season, especially in the big matches.

I dont rate Aquilani at all, in fact I dont rate anyone on the Roma team.

His record for the last three seasons doesn't exactly make for pleasent reading. Played an average of 24 games a season with an average of 3 goals.

Poor business.

I am not sure what the alternative was. I don't think Xabi hated life at liverpool by any stretch of the imagination. Madrid seem to hold an allure for Spanish players that Liverpool probably would for us. This coupled with a degree, however small, of revenge (or whatever you want to call it) for last summer meant he wanted to move.

I reckon a transfer request was handed in, based on the proximity of the reports to the more serious negotiations, this rightly absolves Rafa of any blame for the transfer and to keep a 27 year old against his will when we are being offered 30m pound for him really would be poor business.

Mitch Connor

Hobart wrote: »

Lol...tbh

The answer is in the question.

in my spelling error or what i meant?

Honestly, I don't get what the problem is, apart from the sensationalist Sun headline.

PiE

whatawaster wrote: »

It's not the companies house - it's Liverpool's own accountants.

I'm not accountant but regardless - they are still figures on a public internet message board with no way of confirming - so I'll be staying sceptical.

whatawaster

PiE wrote: »

I'm not accountant but regardless - they are still figures on a public internet message board with no way of confirming - so I'll be staying sceptical.

I don't think the poster made the figures up, i remember similar ones being reported at the time, and being confused by the figures then. I'm sure it was in the media too.

BolBill

Dickerty wrote: »

but Rafa knows best.

Does he though ? Degen, Zenden, Drossena, Babel(huge money that Ajax still laugh about) to name but a few. Rafas 50-50 when it comes to buying decent players so to say he knows best is wrong if you ask me.
He has just sold our best midfielder.

Dickerty

PiE wrote: »

Most years I'd agree - but with the complete lack of adequate/better replacements available this summer, it's a bad time to have 30m burning a hole in his pocket.

But how do you know who is adequate? He won't replace like for like, and I suspect that for a very small net spend this summer, we will definately have a stronger squad/first team. That has to be the end game.

Cyrus

Thanks mitch i think all your posts are stupid too. I'm not the one who said they weren't goin to improve fergie did, you are doing a super job picking holes in it tho good man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Stupid, just stupid.

The players individual performance may not improve in terms of their ability. Having a better manager with better tactics can improve the team, having essien back can improve the team. Getting a bit more lucky can push you on in a title hunt etc.

Is it unreasonable to suggest Drogba probably won't improve in terms of ability? Or Lampard, or Ballack, or Terry? Do you think they are going to improve as players? What do you think is more likely, a 31 year old to improve, or a 21 year old to improve? That doesn't mean that they aren't currently good enough at their current level.

Many factors can influence the success of a team - not only the individual talents of the players in it.

But sure, go on with you simplistic argument cause it suits your agenda.

gucci

BolBill wrote: »

His record for the last three seasons doesn't exactly make for pleasent reading. Played an average of 24 games a season with an average of 3 goals.

Poor business.

For what its worth in statistics battle, Alonso has only played an average of 27 league games per season over 3 years.

I agree that he seems to have his injury problems, but it might not be Harry Kewell we are talking about here.

I wonder how eager he is to leave Roma? Totti never seemed to want to leave there, maybe he would want to move to another Italian club?

mike65

BolBill wrote: »

He has just sold our best midfielder.

Our best MF wanted to leave....Rafa held firm and got about 30 million for him. Decent bit of (sadly necessary) business.

BolBill

gucci wrote: »

For what its worth in statistics battle, Alonso has only played an average of 27 league games per season over 3 years.

I agree that he seems to have his injury problems, but it might not be Harry Kewell we are talking about here.

I wonder how eager he is to leave Roma? Totti never seemed to want to leave there, maybe he would want to move to another Italian club?

Yeah but Alonso averaged 40 games a season (last 3 years), Aquilini only managed 24 games a season. Lets include all comps here.

noodler

BolBill wrote: »

Does he though ? Degen, Zenden, Drossena, Babel(huge money that Ajax still laugh about) to name but a few. Rafas 50-50 when it comes to buying decent players so to say he knows best is wrong if you ask me.
He has just sold our best midfielder.

I am more than willing, more than most around here, to put the boot in when Rafa makes a mistake but what was he going to do about Alonso?

What could he have done? Look up at my last post (number 606) where I outlined your previous criticism over the Alonso deal.

Dickerty

BolBill wrote: »

Does he though ? Degen, Zenden, Drossena, Babel(huge money that Ajax still laugh about) to name but a few. Rafas 50-50 when it comes to buying decent players so to say he knows best is wrong if you ask me.

Torres, Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Arbeloa, Insua, Benayoun, Mascerano, Alonso, Riera, Kuyt....all Rafa signings, all worth more than when we bought them as well. Defo better than 50:50 and comparable to Fergie or Wenger, both have bought expensive turds.

BolBill wrote: »

He has just sold our best midfielder.

Maybe best passing midfielder, but I think we can find a better foil for Masc which will make us more of a threat in midfield...

Mitch Connor

Cyrus wrote: »

Thanks mitch i think all your posts are stupid too. I'm not the one who said they weren't goin to improve fergie did, you are doing a super job picking holes in it tho good man

apart from the fact i'm not. but never mind that, eh?

Dont be at yourself

Is he not allowed to hold the opinion that Chelsea will be the biggest threats to United winning the league this season (I agree with him on that btw - I'd have Chelsea favoutires for the title at the moment)

Chelsea as favourites? With an ageing squad which finished well off the pace last year? With a want-away, out-of-form centre back? With a new manager, bringing a poor record of mounting domestic challenges?

Ancelotti and his football is fine and dandy against the bigger teams, but he'll have to overcome the Italian mindset and play at a much higher tempo against much of the league.

Boggles

He only started 14 games last season all comps, 17 the season before. 15 before that.

Similar record to old glass arsé Saha.

gucci

BolBill wrote: »

Yeah but Alonso averaged 40 games a season (last 3 years), Aquilini only managed 24 games a season. Lets include all comps here.

Fair enough, I was just basing it on league games, I had assumed that was the basis of the previous statistics you quoted too.

whatawaster

BolBill wrote: »

Does he though ? Degen, Zenden, Drossena, Babel(huge money that Ajax still laugh about) to name but a few. Rafas 50-50 when it comes to buying decent players so to say he knows best is wrong if you ask me.
He has just sold our best midfielder.

mike65 wrote: »

Our best MF wanted to leave....Rafa held firm and got about 30 million for him. Decent bit of (sadly necessary) business.

We all seem to be forgetting that Mascherano is our best midfielder

BolBill

I agree that the player wanted to go but the manager played his part. Alonso dirtyed his bib with Rafa 2 seasons ago when he remained with his girlfriend while she had a baby instead of playing in the away leg of the Champions League tie with Inter. Rafa then tried to offload him to Juve last summer but with no joy. Alonso then plays his best football in years last season. what reward does he get ? None. The manager knows he'll get big money for him but waits and waits until the player puts in a transfer request thus excusing him from all blame. This goes directly against what he complained about last summer with the whole Gareth Barry saga dragging out until just before the season when he ended up buying Robbie Keane as the season was about to kick off.
Now if we buy someone they only have a week or so to gel with the team.

Look at Man U, all deals done withing a week or so of July.

Handsome Bob

You know the season is only around the corner when Fergie starts with the mind games. :pac:

Fergie on Ancelotti;

"It brought him two European Cups - it should have been three because they should never have lost to Liverpool, so why should he change?"

You're spot on Fergie, I guess Man U should never have beaten Bayern Munich in 1999 either eh? :pac:

gucci

BolBill wrote: »

Look at Man U, all deals done withing a week or so of July.

Have they finished spending yet? Who knows til the transfer window closes. I think they left it pretty late to sign Berbetov last season?

Its not ideal, but its done now.

Mitch Connor

LZ5by5 wrote: »

You know the season is only around the corner when Fergie starts with the mind games. :pac:

Fergie on Ancelotti;



You're spot on Fergie, I guess Man U should never have beaten Bayern Munich in 1999 either eh? :pac:

Because a 1-0 lead should be as safe as a 3-0 lead. yep.

Mitch Connor

BolBill wrote: »

Look at Man U, all deals done withing a week or so of July.

And there are a large number of United fans not happy about that, given that the team is probably weaker than it was last season, and we should have money to spend.

whatawaster

gucci wrote: »

Have they finished spending yet? Who knows til the transfer window closes. I think they left it pretty late to sign Berbetov last season?

Its not ideal, but its done now.

I’ll be very happy indeed if all their business is done.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Because a 1-0 lead should be as safe as a 3-0 lead. yep.

No lead is safe with Liverpool

BolBill

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And there are a large number of United fans not happy about that, given that the team is probably weaker than it was last season, and we should have money to spend.

gucci wrote: »

Have they finished spending yet? Who knows til the transfer window closes. I think they left it pretty late to sign Berbetov last season?

Its not ideal, but its done now.

Yeah they did leave it late and look how he did ? crap. Also United had other options up front. Whoever we buy has to go straight in to the first team.

In regards to an earlier post, whoever said Mascherano is outr best midfielder is deluded. He can tackle, thats it, just tackle, get a goal, no (1 in 2 years) , pass a ball 20 yards, no. Hes Makelele except from Argentina. He was poor last season.

Good to see Fergie dismissing us. As if we needed more motivation for this season.

PHB

Lads, you know you are in trouble when people use United as an example of acting quickly in the transfer market.

gucci

BolBill wrote: »

Yeah they did leave it late and look how he did ? crap. Also United had other options up front. Whoever we buy has to go straight in to the first team.

Berbatov? Crap last season, ah yes of course. 14 or 15 goals and a bag full of assists.

I'm not a man united fan, but and I'm definetly not a Berbatov fan, I wouldnt like to see him play for liverpool personally, but he did not have a crap season last year.

PHB wrote: »

Lads, you know you are in trouble when people use United as an example of acting quickly in the transfer market.

I would rather not do either, and I wont continue with it, but I am just trying to argue a point here, that early signings arent the be all and end all. Man U were used as an example by a previous poster and I am questioning that.

Dublin_Gunner

noodler wrote: »

They are in the final third/box but you need to look a little deeper. Xabi was usually the difference between having 60-40 possession for VS having 40-60 against.

TBH I'd take 80-20 against if it meant beating Hull, Middlesborough etc 1-0

Having all the posession in the world doesn;t put the ball in the back of the net.

Xabi, while being a very talented player, was also a fairly safe player 90% of the time. He'd hold the ball up, and play the 5-10 yard passes to feet.

TBH I think its actually a good thing for Liverpool (despite the act that yes, I do rate Xabi, and I'll miss him from the squad), as we might be able to get someone who's a little more forward thinking on the ball from midfield, so as not to stagnate our massive amounts of posession, and help turn it to goals.

We shall see.

Oh, and on the Fergie thing, someone asked 'what was wrong with what he said?'
1." it should have been three, because they should never have lost to Liverpool" - lol. Right on Fergie.

2. "The thrust of their team is all about Gerrard and Torres."

Really Fergie - funny that, considering we scored 77 goals, when Gerrard & Torres only managed about half a season, scoring 16 & 14 respectively (30%).

Man U scored only 68 league goals, and have sold Ronaldo, who scored 18 of those (26.5%).

So the one major player they've sold, scored nearly the same percentage of goals that our 'main thrust' of 2 players scored - but we still have those players, and we wont contend for the title??

Give me a break Fergie, and go think about who's going to score for you this season.

Kess73

Cyrus wrote: »

excuse the link but it was on the bbc website

is slur alex on the sherry again??


:rolleyes:

Mate, you may not be a Liverpool fan and as such may not understand the feeling that some of us have on the subject. But linking to the S*n is quite offensive to some of us here for obvious reasons.

I would not report your post for it as I do not think there is any malice at all in what you did. Nor am I trying to mod you. But maybe next time think about what links you use on a Liverpool forum/thread please? You may not be aware of how deep the feeling runs in the city of Liverpool and within fans of the club or not be old enough to remember what happened and the aftermath, so I have attatched a few links if you would like to read up on the subject.

I don't mean this post to be patronising towards you either, but it is an issue that I feel strongly about.




http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/boycott-the-sun.shtm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster


http://www.anfieldroad.com/dont-buy-the-sun/

whatawaster

BolBill wrote: »

In regards to an earlier post, whoever said Mascherano is outr best midfielder is deluded. He can tackle, thats it, just tackle, get a goal, no (1 in 2 years) , pass a ball 20 yards, no. Hes Makelele except from Argentina. He was poor last season.

He was ok for the first half of last season and immense after christmas.
He's probably the best tackler in football, he's as good a passer as most, he's just no Alonso or Fabregas. And he's not in the team to score goals, no more than Carra or Skrtel are. Let's not paint Xabi as a prolific goalscorer either, especially when you discount set-pieces.

While he has many of Makelele's qualities, he plays a completely different role. Makelele used to sit tight in front of a defense. Mascherano gets up and down the pitch, hunting players down.

Cyrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

apart from the fact i'm not. but never mind that, eh?

oh yes you are

Handsome Bob

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Because a 1-0 lead should be as safe as a 3-0 lead. yep.

That is irrelevant. You can't just base your opinions on who should have won a game on just one half.

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

We all seem to be forgetting that Mascherano is our best midfielder

He is now our most important.

I think Benni will be extremely important for us this season and if he plays like he did in the 2nd half of last year he'll score and create plenty.

Boggles

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Give me a break Fergie, and go think about who's going to score for you this season.

Owen, Berbatov, Rooney. To name 3.

As we found out last year, beating a team 5-0 has the same result as beating them 1-0.

BolBill

Kess73 wrote: »

Mate, you may not be a Liverpool fan and as such may not understand the feeling that some of us have on the subject. But linking to the S*n is quite offensive to some of us here for obvious reasons.

I would not report your post for it as I do not think there is any malice at all in what you did. Nor am I trying to mod you. But maybe next time think about what links you use on a Liverpool forum/thread please? You may not be aware of how deep the feeling runs in the city of Liverpool and within fans of the club or not be old enough to remember what happened and the aftermath, so I have attatched a few links if you would like to read up on the subject.

I don't mean this post to be patronising towards you either, but it is an issue that I feel strongly about.




http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/boycott-the-sun.shtm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster


http://www.anfieldroad.com/dont-buy-the-sun/

Here here !

Mitch Connor

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

TBH I'd take 80-20 against if it meant beating Hull, Middlesborough etc 1-0

Having all the posession in the world doesn;t put the ball in the back of the net.

Xabi, while being a very talented player, was also a fairly safe player 90% of the time. He'd hold the ball up, and play the 5-10 yard passes to feet.

TBH I think its actually a good thing for Liverpool (despite the act that yes, I do rate Xabi, and I'll miss him from the squad), as we might be able to get someone who's a little more forward thinking on the ball from midfield, so as not to stagnate our massive amounts of posession, and help turn it to goals.

We shall see.

Oh, and on the Fergie thing, someone asked 'what was wrong with what he said?'
1." it should have been three, because they should never have lost to Liverpool" - lol. Right on Fergie.

2. "The thrust of their team is all about Gerrard and Torres."

Really Fergie - funny that, considering we scored 77 goals, when Gerrard & Torres only managed about half a season, scoring 16 & 14 respectively (30%).

Man U scored only 68 league goals, and have sold Ronaldo, who scored 18 of those (26.5%).

So the one major player they've sold, scored nearly the same percentage of goals that our 'main thrust' of 2 players scored - but we still have those players, and we wont contend for the title??

Give me a break Fergie, and go think about who's going to score for you this season.

Where did Fergie say you won't contend for the title? Headline grabbing crap that is. He named chelsea as the biggest threat, that doesn't preclude everyone else from mounting a challenge. He said it will be difficult for liverpool to improve. He didn't say it was impossible or that they wouldn't. it just won't be easy. it never is.

MementoMori

On the whole Companies House figures issue vs what we spent on players thing.

I remember reading about this previously and a there are good reasons why there are large differences between what is reported in the media as the price of a deal and the accounting treatment.

In general the media will only be interested in reporting what sum is paid from Club A to Club B, whereas the cost to club can be a wholly different figure.

In the UK there is 21% VAT on player transfers, which is an immediate skewer on the difference between the two.

Also in terms of accountancy terms in the majority of cases all potential liabilities in terms of add-ons that might possibly be paid must be listed while at most no more than a percentage of add-ons receivable would be included. This is also the fact that there are agents fees, sell-on fees as well as stuff like registration fees to FA/PFA. I'd also imagine stuff like travel expenses, scouting and scouts expenses, any fees for youngster, could possibly be added to this. There might also be stuff like liabilities for loyalty bonuses, which might never fall due. There also the fact that deals could be structed unusually in terms of when payments are due in terms of which financial period they fall into especially if deals are officially concluded around the year-end period (can be a bit tricky).

Basically it possible to conceal a lot when dealing with financial accounts, as anyone with any experience will tell you.

As such I generally go with what is reported in the reliable press in most cases. The main reason for this is that if you're comparing Liverpool with other teams then by using the same sources should enable you to get accurate judge of the relative spending.

It's impossible to be 100% certain that the figures are correct but in general a consensus figure does tend to emerge for player. In terms of Liverpool the Liverpool Echo, Times, BBC, Guardian are the ones I would trust the most.
The BBC in particular seem to be the most conservative in that they seem to go with the undisclosed fee the most often and usually if they go with a fee I would tend to believe that. After that I would go with the Liverpool Echo as they seem to me to have decent sources and while there might be some bias there I don't think it would stretch to messing with figures.

Anyway best of luck Xabi - shame you're going to Real.

If Rafa does buy Aquilani, then I will have decent faith in you. My main concerns would be you're injury record and your ability to settle in the PL.
However Rafa has a decent record when it comes to CMs so will keep the faith.

Looking at the updated spend so far this summer

In
Johnson £17m
Mavinga Compensation Fee
Aaron King Compensation Fee
Jesus Fernandez Compensation Fee

Out
Xabi £30m
Arbeloa £3.5m
Leto £3m
Hobbs £300k
Anderson £250k

Net Spend so far : Negative £20.05m

If the Aquilani goes throught at the reported £16m, we're still left with a negative net spend of £4.05m.

Talks on the Dossena move seem to have stalled a bit - not wholly unsurprising as I'd imagine Alonso and Aquilani would have been the priority - but as to how likely it is not I don't know. Have to say would still be surprised to see him here once the window closes. He's pretty much the only one who I can still see moving outwards - maybe Voronin if someone comes in with an offer but would be surprised at this stage. Cant se any otheres leaving at the moment.

So the question is will Rafa be making any effort to bring in another player after Aquilani (or similar equivalent) and if so who?

From what I've seen of the pre-season I think Kelly has the upper hand in the 4th choice CB spot at the moment - but it's pretty hard to tell whether Rafa will make a move here. RB is another concern in terms of injury cover but after that I would assume.

Fingers crossed we get Aquilani signed sharpish

Dublin_Gunner

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Because a 1-0 lead should be as safe as a 3-0 lead. yep.

Yeah, but that 1-0 lead was still there in the 90th minute......

Liverpool had equalised with 30 minutes still to play. Not really the same at all.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Owen, Berbatov, Rooney. To name 3.

As we found out last year, beating a team 5-0 has the same result as beating them 1-0.

I think the question should be who is going to score you the extra 30 goals a season Ronaldo gave you?

Owen will probably score more than Tevez, but will probably play less, so could even each other out.
Valencia I could see getting 5. Rooney might get 5 more than last year. There’s still a deficit it’s hard to see you filling at the moment. And all Ronaldo’s goals weren’t the 3rd and 4th in big wins. He scored big goals. There’s a really big question mark there.

Dublin_Gunner

Boggles wrote: »

Owen, Berbatov, Rooney. To name 3.

As we found out last year, beating a team 5-0 has the same result as beating them 1-0.

Oh yeah, I forgot how prolific Rooney (12) & Berbatov (9) are :rolleyes:


Well, United, in fairness to them, are well adept at the 1-0 wins. They win leagues based on them, the feckers.

gucci

MementoMori wrote: »

In general the media will only be interested in reporting what sum is paid from Club A to Club B, whereas the club club to the cost can be a wholly different figure.

In the UK there is 21% VAT on player transfers, which is an immediate skewer on the difference between the two.

Jeebus, you forget that sort of stuff!
The government must have been ringing Rafa daily wondering what the hold up was!

whatawaster

MementoMori wrote: »

In
Johnson £17m
Mavinga Compensation Fee
Aaron King Compensation Fee
Jesus Fernandez Compensation Fee

Out
Xabi £30m
Arbeloa £3.5m
Leto £3m
Hobbs £300k
Anderson £250k

Net Spend so far : Negative £20.05m

If the Aquilani goes throught at the reported £16m, we're still left with a negative net spend of £4.05m.

Talks on the Dossena move seem to have stalled a bit - not wholly unsurprising as I'd imagine Alonso and Aquilani would have been the priority - but as to how likely it is not I don't know. Have to say would still be surprised to see him here once the window closes. He's pretty much the only one who I can still see moving outwards - maybe Voronin if someone comes in with an offer but would be surprised at this stage. Cant se any otheres leaving at the moment.

So the question is will Rafa be making any effort to bring in another player after Aquilani (or similar equivalent) and if so who?

From what I've seen of the pre-season I think Kelly has the upper hand in the 4th choice CB spot at the moment - but it's pretty hard to tell whether Rafa will make a move here. RB is another concern in terms of injury cover but after that I would assume.

Fingers crossed we get Aquilani signed sharpish

I’m itching for us to sign someone. Two midfielders hopefully – Aquilani and someone maybe a bit younger
I think Distin was linked in the Echo this morning so I don’t think Kelly will be considered 4th choice CB. Shame, but definitely one for the future.

In the UK there is 21% VAT on player transfers, which is an immediate skewer on the difference between the two.

VAT isn’t a cost to the company. All expenses will be listed Net of VAT

Also in terms of accountancy terms in the majority of cases all potential liabilities in terms of add-ons that might possibly be paid must be listed while at most no more than a percentage of add-ons receivable would be included. This is also the fact that there are agents fees, sell-on fees as well as stuff like registration fees to FA/PFA. I'd also imagine stuff like travel expenses, scouting and scouts expenses, any fees for youngster, could possibly be added to this. There might also be stuff like liabilities for loyalty bonuses, which might never fall due. There also the fact that deals could be structed unusually in terms of when payments are due in terms of which financial period they fall into especially if deals are officially concluded around the year-end period (can be a bit tricky).

Yeah I think these are reasonable assumptions.

Mitch Connor

whatawaster wrote: »

I think the question should be who is going to score you the extra 30 goals a season Ronaldo gave you?

Owen will probably score more than Tevez, but will probably play less, so could even each other out.
Valencia I could see getting 5. Rooney might get 5 more than last year. There’s still a deficit it’s hard to see you filling at the moment. And all Ronaldo’s goals weren’t the 3rd and 4th in big wins. He scored big goals. There’s a really big question mark there.

Yeah - it is a big worry.

I do expect Owen to comfortably outscore Tevez's return last season. I would expect 10 goals at least from Owen. Rooney should be good for 20 a season given his ability - but he is so inconsistent and his pre-season form is a worry. Berbatov I would expect more from this season too. Nani should get a few more league goals, Valencia I would put down for between 7 and 10. Numbers wise, I think we will be close to last seasons return. But, I agree with your last point - Ronaldo's goals were often the first goal to break a team, or to put us ahead etc. Like the first and second against Villa, winner against Fulham a few years back. Opener in Porto etc. Those 'game changers' will be very hard to replace and it does place a very big question mark on United this season, imo. I think any United fan who denies there are big question marks over the team with Ronaldo gone and the team not adequately (imo) strengthened with the money we received.

I would agree with Fergie in that Chelsea are the biggest threat to United this season - as i have said, i would make them favourites, but I would still be very weary of Liverpool, and Arsenal. While i don't think any of th ebig four have made big strides forward (yet, still time for them all to spend the money they have) I think United are the ones that have, arguably, gone backwards with the loss of Ronaldo. Maybe Rooney and Berbatov will step up, but my biggest worry is that we don't have a game changer coming from deep as Ronaldo did - if our forwards don't really push on, i don't see the midfield doing it, with Ronaldo masked imo.

I'm glad Alsonso has left Liverpool, i think he will be a loss - but i'm worried about what Rafa will do with that cash. Who knows though, maybe he'll buy another lot of fullbacks:D

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

I think the question should be who is going to score you the extra 30 goals a season Ronaldo gave you?

Owen will probably score more than Tevez, but will probably play less, so could even each other out.
Valencia I could see getting 5. Rooney might get 5 more than last year. There’s still a deficit it’s hard to see you filling at the moment. And all Ronaldo’s goals weren’t the 3rd and 4th in big wins. He scored big goals. There’s a really big question mark there.

Rooney is a 20 goal a season man, so is Berbatov although if they played the same amount of games he would get more imo.

Owen will probably get 15/20 if he stays fit. Valencia isn't known for his scoring but in a better team may excel.

If Torres stays fit for the season I'd expect us to outscore Utd tbh.

MementoMori

whatawaster wrote: »

VAT isn’t a cost to the company. All expenses will be listed Net of VAT

While VAT will be reclaimable on some expenses - but overall VAT will be a net cost to the company in terms of transfers.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

I think the question should be who is going to score you the extra 30 goals a season Ronaldo gave you?

Owen will probably score more than Tevez, but will probably play less, so could even each other out.
Valencia I could see getting 5. Rooney might get 5 more than last year. There’s still a deficit it’s hard to see you filling at the moment. And all Ronaldo’s goals weren’t the 3rd and 4th in big wins. He scored big goals. There’s a really big question mark there.

Ronaldo got 18 in the league, 4 penos, 4 free kicks, 10 from open play.

There is enough quality in the team to replace the penos, Ronaldo had a monoply on taking the free kicks, I'm sure one or 2 will step up to the plate and prove they can be as effective.

A fit Owen from what I have seen already will get 12-15 in the league, Berbatov was actually crucial in getting winners and setting up winners in the tight games. Rooney only starts on average 25/26 league games, his tally will go up as I can see Ferguson playing him more in the league.

The 68 goals last season was spread across 16 playes a bigger spread than any other team in the league, I'm sure there is 5 goals more in there to match Tevez.

When RVN left United scored approx 20 more goals the season he did.

Every season is different, 60 goals might win it next season you never know. The brand of football and the type of player in the United team means they will always score goals, doesn't matter who has left TBH.

Agree though, losing Ronaldo and Tevez is massive, adapting to losing them is the big task, only time will tell. I fully expect Ferguson to make one big signing before September 1st though.

---

As for Alonso, don't think he is that massive a loss, the only problem is there is a lack of available talent out there to replace him, and what is out there is over priced.