Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Dublin_Gunner

rarnes1 wrote: »

Rooney is a 20 goal a season man, so is Berbatov although if they played the same amount of games he would get more imo.

Owen will probably get 15/20 if he stays fit. Valencia isn't known for his scoring but in a better team may excel.

If Torres stays fit for the season I'd expect us to outscore Utd tbh.

Rooney, Berba & Owen are NOT going to score 60 goals between them. There just isn't enough football to have 3 strikers hit the 20 goal mark, unless they're the only ones scoring the goals, which obviously they wont be.

I'd put them down for around 10-15 goals each, with the rest of United's goals coming from midfield.

Boggles - 38 goals can win it, technically. Just win 1-0 each week easy peezy (and you wouldn't even have to win every game)

Boggles wrote: »

As for Alonso, don't think he is that massive a loss, the only problem is there is a lack of available talent out there to replace him, and what is out there is over priced.

Couldn't agree more.

whatawaster

MementoMori wrote: »

While VAT will be reclaimable on some expenses - but overall VAT will be a net cost to the company in terms of transfers.

No, VAT is a tax on consumers.
A business can claim refunds from the Revenue on VAT paid on any purchases, or net it off against the VAT they charge on sales.

So if we buy someone for 10m + Vat of 2.1m – we will actually pay the other club 12.1 million, but only 10m will be treated as an expense. The other 2.1m will be an asset, reclaimable from the government.
There will also be no VAT on purchases from overseas.

Dublin_Gunner

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Rooney, Berba & Owen are NOT going to score 60 goals between them. There just isn't enough football to have 3 strikers hit the 20 goal mark, unless they're the only ones scoring the goals, which obviously they wont be.

I'd put them down for around 10-15 goals each, with the rest of United's goals coming from midfield.

I'm basing mine on all competitions.

NukaCola

I think Aquilani is a big big risk.

Take into account

Adapting to the EPL along with his injury record and then add to the fact he has to fill Xabi's role(more or less) and he has to hit the ground running (so to speak) with less than 2 weeks till the Prem starts...
And at 16 mil+ is this someone that could be value for money?

Hate to say this, and i'm sure many would disagree, but I think Barry would have been a perfect signing this season (putting aside his move to City and all the stuff we did/didn't do to sign him etc etc).

Who is to know who is coming in but if you believe the reports, Aquilani will need to do an awful lot and i really hope this is a Torres type signing and not another Dossena type signing. (maybe a little unfair on Dossena there Hit signing not so much of a hit signing lets say)

Dublin_Gunner

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'm basing mine on all competitions.

Even still, what was the last team to have 3 strikers hit 20+ goals in one season?? I for one can't think of any.

Bumblebee - I think too many people are focussing on Aquilani's injuries, without actually thinking about why he, and a bunch of other Roma players are consistently getting injuries.

Their ridiculous training regime. It has been criticised time and time again.

Mitch Connor

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Even still, what was the last team to have 3 strikers hit 20+ goals in one season?? I for one can't think of any.

Bumblebee - I think too many people are focussing on Aquilani's injuries, without actually thinking about why he, and a bunch of other Roma players are consistently getting injuries.

Their ridiculous training regime. It has been criticised time and time again.

Barcelona had their three forward players score that, and more.

kida

IMO this is a big challenge for Benitez, its the first time in his time at pool he has had to replace one of his top players, before that he was always adding to what he had, presumably with a plan in mind.

The question is now what does he do to replace him? Ideally there is would be a like for like replacement for him but that does not seem to exist(internally or externally) . So is it back to the drawing board or does he get someone to try and play like Alonso?

How quickly he adjusts to this challenge could have a big bearing on you challenging for the league this season. He can't afford to spend the first 2 months tinkering to see what the best answer is.

whatawaster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Barcelona had their three forward players score that, and more.

Yeah but Barcelona have the best attacking unit in world football and focus almost 100% on going forward.
While United are an attacking side, they are not that gung-ho.

NukaCola

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Bumblebee - I think too many people are focussing on Aquilani's injuries, without actually thinking about why he, and a bunch of other Roma players are consistently getting injuries.

I'm more worried about adapting to the EPL in such an important season.
Would like to see Benitez go for a player like Noble with EPL experience over Aquilani to be honest. Its a hard call for Benitez, hope he gets this one right...

rossie1977

Cyrus wrote: »

excuse the link but it was on the bbc website

is slur alex on the sherry again??

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/premteams/man_united/2571920/Fergie-writes-off-Liverpool.html

:rolleyes:

like him or hate him (and personally i can't stand ferguson) the geezer is usually spot on, last year in july he totally dismissed Scolaris chelsea calling them an aging team and one that he didn’t expect much progress from, this despite chelsea finishing 2 points behind utd the year before, he claimed liverpool would be utds nearest challenger, he was right

much i hate to say it, liverpool won't win the league next year, if they finish in the top 2 they will be doing well, its liverpool and arsenal fighting for 3rd next year as its stands, personally i don't think utd will win it either but their squad is far superior to liverpools and they know how to grind out 1-0 wins (what was it twelve or some mad number last year in the league) so ronaldos sale won't affect them as much as people on here think, to make matters worse the bottom 10 are already beaten before they step on the field with them (58 points from a possible 60 last season)

Dublin_Gunner

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

I'm more worried about adapting to the EPL in such an important season.
Would like to see Benitez go for a player like Noble with EPL experience over Aquilani to be honest. Its a hard call for Benitez, hope he gets this one right...

While I cannot disagree with that logic, I'd rather go for someone with the ability, and give them a little time to adapt, than go for someone who doesn't need to adapt, buts lacks ability...

Dublin_Gunner

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Even still, what was the last team to have 3 strikers hit 20+ goals in one season?? I for one can't think of any.

True, don't get me wrong, I hope they don't score 20 a season each, I'm just saying they are capable !

Mitch Connor

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I cannot disagree with that logic, I'd rather go for someone with the ability, and give them a little time to adapt, than go for someone who doesn't need to adapt, buts lacks ability...

i would agree with this - shouldn't be making signings with such short term goals. A foreign signing might take some months to adapt, but (1) Liverpool should have a squad good enough to cope with that and (2) The long term benifits being greater should outweigh the short term adaptability issues.

whatawaster

rossie1977 wrote: »

i don't think utd will win it either but their squad is far superior to liverpools and they know how to grind out 1-0 wins (what was it twelve or some mad number last year in the league) so ronaldos sale won't affect them as much as people on here think

Is it really far superior?
We have a better goalkeeper.
I think we’ve a better right back.
They have better centre halves and LB, but we’re still very strong in those areas.
We have the better DM
They have better CM at the moment, but who knows once we bring someone in. I can’t see united strengthening here.

Wingers – we have Kuyt, Riera, Benayoun and Babel. I would take these four any day over Park, Valencia, Nani and Tosic.
Strikers – we have Gerrard and Torres to their Rooney and Berbatov. Both ours are stronger. OK in Owen (if fit) they have better backup, but the summer is not over by any means. I think we’re more likely to strengthen significantly than them.

United are still favourite for the league imo, but their squad has gone backwards. Ours, well until August 31 I won’t know which way it’s gone.

whatawaster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i would agree with this - shouldn't be making signings with such short term goals. A foreign signing might take some months to adapt, but (1) Liverpool should have a squad good enough to cope with that and (2) The long term benifits being greater should outweigh the short term adaptability issues.

Yeah +1 to this from me. Lucas and Mascherano are good enough to beat dominate most teams.
What we really need is Kuyt and Benny to keep up last seasons form, Riera to build on his strong showings and be more consistent, Gerrard and Torres to play 30+ games together and Babel to be the supersub he was in his first season (at a minimum). Then, we’ll be able to give someone like Aquilani bedding in time, whilst keeping up with the premier league pace.

NukaCola

rossie1977 wrote: »

like him or hate him (and personally i can't stand ferguson) the geezer is usually spot on, last year in july he totally dismissed Scolaris chelsea calling them an aging team and one that he didn’t expect much progress from, this despite chelsea finishing 2 points behind utd the year before, he claimed liverpool would be utds nearest challenger, he was right

much i hate to say it, liverpool won't win the league next year, if they finish in the top 2 they will be doing well, its liverpool and arsenal fighting for 3rd next year as its stands, personally i don't think utd will win it either but their squad is far superior to liverpools and they know how to grind out 1-0 wins (what was it twelve or some mad number last year in the league) so ronaldos sale won't affect them as much as people on here think

So much talk about AF and MU on here today.

To come on here and say we'll be fighting for third with no other point to make other than Fergie said it is astounding, absolutely astounding. Transfer window hasn't closed, not one single min of the league played but because Fergie said Chelsea are their biggest rivals, we'll be fighting for third. Why exactly other than "fergie said it" have you come to that conclusion, before the season has even started?

NukaCola

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I cannot disagree with that logic, I'd rather go for someone with the ability, and give them a little time to adapt, than go for someone who doesn't need to adapt, buts lacks ability...

Why not both (we're in the money....dum dum)

As i said, big decision for Rafa.....i do think we need 2 Midfielders though, Xabi replacement +1, we are fairly light on MF's

SlickRic

it's amazing how what Fergie says still gets up people's noses so much.

he knows damn well Liverpool are capable of challenging, and he has said nothing to suggest otherwise. Chelsea are his biggest challengers, and on paper, that's absolutely true.

as mitch i think said, he hasn't dismissed anyone else, but he knows his comments will be misconstrued. he can just let the media do what it does best, which in turn gets everyone's knickers in a twist.

it's priceless really

rossie1977

whatawaster wrote: »

Is it really far superior?
We have a better goalkeeper.
I think we’ve a better right back.
They have better centre halves and LB, but we’re still very strong in those areas.
We have the better DM
They have better CM at the moment, but who knows once we bring someone in. I can’t see united strengthening here.

Wingers – we have Kuyt, Riera, Benayoun and Babel. I would take these four any day over Park, Valencia, Nani and Tosic.
Strikers – we have Gerrard and Torres to their Rooney and Berbatov. Both ours are stronger. OK in Owen (if fit) they have better backup, but the summer is not over by any means. I think we’re more likely to strengthen significantly than them.

United are still favourite for the league imo, but their squad has gone backwards. Ours, well until August 31 I won’t know which way it’s gone.

on paper the first 11 of both teams are pretty even, however utds backup options are better, john o shea/raphael/gary neville/fabio are all far better backup players than degen e.g. giggs/scholes//nani/owen are better backup players than el zhar or ngog

liverpools squad is much worse now than say on may 31st, replacing 2 first teamers and a great backup like sami with a player who has had one half decent season in the premier and struggled at his last big club

Dublin_Gunner

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Why not both (we're in the money....dum dum)

As i said, big decision for Rafa.....i do think we need 2 Midfielders though, Xabi replacement +1, we are fairly light on MF's

Please name, thats available, and within our budget.

I for one cannot think of a top class AM/CM, with EPL experience, thats currently on the market and/or a possible buy.

Ireland? - That would be 30m+ I'd say, and there is no way City would sell him. After him, we're looking at United/Chelsea/Arsenal squads - none of whom are going to sell to us, if to anyone at all.

Seriously, its not that easy. Think of who would be even remotely good enough:
Young, Ireland, Cahill, Arteta, and I'll even throw in Danny Murphy on a return. There is no-one available.

whatawaster

rossie1977 wrote: »

on paper the first 11 of both teams are pretty even, however utds backup options are better, john o shea/raphael/gary neville/fabio are all far better backup players than degen e.g. giggs/scholes//nani/owen are better backup players than el zhar or ngog

liverpools squad is much worse now than say on may 31st, replacing 2 first teamers and a great backup like sami with a player who has had one half decent season in the premier and struggled at his last big club

they are ridiculous comparisons. You name practically all united’s squad and compare them to Degen, El Zhar and N’Gog.
I could quite as easily say Aurelio, Agger, Lucas, Babel and Benayoun are better than Fabio and Gary Neville

8-10

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Arteta

Sigh, a player that would be an ideal replacement but plays for Everton. I think he's definitely top 4 material.

NukaCola

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Please name, thats available, and within our budget.

I for one cannot think of a top class AM/CM, with EPL experience, thats currently on the market and/or a possible buy.

Ireland? - That would be 30m+ I'd say, and there is no way City would sell him. After him, we're looking at United/Chelsea/Arsenal squads - none of whom are going to sell to us, if to anyone at all.

Seriously, its not that easy. Think of who would be even remotely good enough:
Young, Ireland, Cahill, Arteta, and I'll even throw in Danny Murphy on a return. There is no-one available.

The as well as the ''we're in the money meddly'' was supposed to be a little joke on how, despite selling Alonso fo 30 Mil, we actually aren't in the money. What i meant was, if Rafa can spend the money made on players and we are signing Aquilani for 16 mil approx then he prob has another 16 mil to spend no? All i was saying was another midfielder AM/CM should be bought as we are a little light and have very little leeway re injuries...no?

NukaCola

rossie1977 wrote: »

liverpools squad is much worse now than say on may 31st, replacing 2 first teamers and a great backup like sami with a player who has had one half decent season in the premier and struggled at his last big club

Transfer window shut early is it :rolleyes:

HashSlinging

Stephen Ireland.. Dont get me started.. Would be amazing.

turns computer off.

Eire-Dearg

I'd take Stephen Ireland this minute.

The Rooster

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Transfer window shut early is it :rolleyes:

That works both ways. United and Liverpool are both definitely weaker today than when the season ended. Whereas as Chelsea are slightly stronger. That means there's probably very little in it.

Liverpool will buy at least one central midfielder and probably a back up centre half. With Johnson replacing Arbeloa (likely to be an improvement), Liverpool should be able to get pretty much back to where they were last season.

I can't believe United havent strengthened centre midfield, where they were undone a number of times last season against good sides. Ronaldo will certainly be missed when they come up against some lower sides who offer resistance. But will they still have enough to get the 1-0 in those games? Probably, but we'll see. I predict Scholes will be totally ineffective this season and Giggs will do feck all either. But Hargreaves, if he ever gets fit, will improve them.

I think Chelsea will take the league this year, but Liverpool and ManU close behind. But with the window still open, plenty can happen.

NukaCola

The Rooster wrote: »

That works both ways. United and Liverpool are both definitely weaker today than when the season ended. Whereas as Chelsea are slightly stronger. That means there's probably very little in it.

Liverpool will buy at least one central midfielder and probably a back up centre half. With Johnson replacing Arbeloa (likely to be an improvement), Liverpool should be able to get pretty much back to where they were last season.

I can't believe United havent strengthened centre midfield, where they were undone a number of times last season against good sides. Ronaldo will certainly be missed when they come up against some lower sides who offer resistance. But will they still have enough to get the 1-0 in those games? Probably, but we'll see. I predict Scholes will be totally ineffective this season and Giggs will do feck all either. But Hargreaves, if he ever gets fit, will improve them.

I think Chelsea will take the league this year, but Liverpool and ManU close behind. But with the window still open, plenty can happen.

I was replying to a poster who said Liverpool replaced 2 first teamers and a good backup with one new signing, ie replaced Alonso,Hyppia,Arbeloa with Johnson, just stated that, as you say yourself, the windows still open. Liverpool and ManU are weakened but i still dont put either behind Chelsea. Ancellotti maybe a good manager, doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a hit at chelsea. How many managers is that in less than 2 seasons?

Not writing Chelsea off completely i just dont see why they automatically should be favourites, and especially with all the management changes i really dont see them as ''stronger''.

Dickerty

So if we buy a CM and have £15M left, where would you spend it?

I would have a sneaky bid for Joe Cole, or maybe a dip for Van Der Vaart?

whatawaster

Dickerty wrote: »

So if we buy a CM and have £15M left, where would you spend it?

I would have a sneaky bid for Joe Cole, or maybe a dip for Van Der Vaart?

If we only had 15 million left (I think we’d have at least 25 more) then I would buy a cheap defender like Distin and a cheap back DM if possible. Maybe Poulsen on loan.
I would then spend the rest on Negredo and the rest of the season cursing our owners for only giving us 10m net to spend.

Ideally I want us to buy a 20m attacking midfielder. But if the money isn’t there I’d leave that position as we wouldn’t get anyone better than benny, Riera, Kuyt and Babel

gucci

Dickerty wrote: »

So if we buy a CM and have £15M left, where would you spend it?

I would have a sneaky bid for Joe Cole, or maybe a dip for Van Der Vaart?

Sure why not just peg the £30m at Arsenal for Fabregas? I would imagine the same outcome would happen as the sneaky bid for Joe Cole....

Jesus Wept

Cheeky bid for Phil Babb.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

I think we’ve a better right back.

I'm sorry but Brown has more than proved himself and is at this time is a far superior Right back to Johnson.

purple_hatstand

The loss of Alonso is a huge dent to our title hopes for next season, IMO.

As I have said here before, the balance and stability of any side is based on understandings the players have with one another which grow and evolve over extended periods of time. The partnership between Alonso & Mascherano was highly effective and the two players are widely regarded as the best in the world at what they do.

More important even than this, though, IMO, was the way Rafa and the coaching staff got them to connect their contrasting styles to each other and, in turn, connect their partnership to the rest of the team.

Buying a player of equal ability to Alonso is fine, but it's not the same as keeping Alonso because all those on-pitch relationships have to be re-made from scratch.

With a more attacking player like Aquilani, we might well make easier work of seeing off defending teams we couldn't break down last season. We might equally struggle against the better teams.

Cyrus

Boggles wrote: »

I'm sorry but Brown has more than proved himself and is at this time is a far superior Right back to Johnson.

says who boggles

you, give me a break

Dickerty

gucci wrote: »

Sure why not just peg the £30m at Arsenal for Fabregas? I would imagine the same outcome would happen as the sneaky bid for Joe Cole....

I think Cole might fancy it, he's been a squad player for a long time.

Cesc is too loyal to Arsenal, would only go back to Spain I reckon...

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

says who boggles

you, give me a break

Ferguson, Capello and me.

Jayob10

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

TBH I'd take 80-20 against if it meant beating Hull, Middlesborough etc 1-0

Having all the posession in the world doesn;t put the ball in the back of the net.

Xabi, while being a very talented player, was also a fairly safe player 90% of the time. He'd hold the ball up, and play the 5-10 yard passes to feet.

TBH I think its actually a good thing for Liverpool (despite the act that yes, I do rate Xabi, and I'll miss him from the squad), as we might be able to get someone who's a little more forward thinking on the ball from midfield, so as not to stagnate our massive amounts of posession, and help turn it to goals.

We shall see.

Oh, and on the Fergie thing, someone asked 'what was wrong with what he said?'
1." it should have been three, because they should never have lost to Liverpool" - lol. Right on Fergie.

2. "The thrust of their team is all about Gerrard and Torres."

Really Fergie - funny that, considering we scored 77 goals, when Gerrard & Torres only managed about half a season, scoring 16 & 14 respectively (30%).

Man U scored only 68 league goals, and have sold Ronaldo, who scored 18 of those (26.5%).

So the one major player they've sold, scored nearly the same percentage of goals that our 'main thrust' of 2 players scored - but we still have those players, and we wont contend for the title??

Give me a break Fergie, and go think about who's going to score for you this season.

that is a correct statement but it was a tactical decision on the managers behalf to play Xabi in the more deep lying role. He could also get forward effectively when let of the leash and he had a mean shot from distance. Theres more to Xabi's game than playing 5-10 yeard passes to feet.

Dickerty

purple_hatstand wrote: »

As I have said here before, the balance and stability of any side is based on understandings the players have with one another which grow and evolve over extended periods of time. The partnership between Alonso & Mascherano was highly effective and the two players are widely regarded as the best in the world at what they do.

It is great if two players have a great understanding, like Sami and Stephane or Macca and Fowler. But you still need to consider how good that partnership is, and how good they are as individuals. You cannot be afraid to break up a partnership for the good of the overall team. 3 years ago, no one would break up Gerrard and Alonso in the middle, but things change, and we are better for it with Gerrard up top and a true defensive midfielder in Javier.

SlickRic

Cyrus wrote: »

says who boggles

you, give me a break

to be fair, at this time, if fit (big if!), brown has proved himself more than johnson.

johnson has more natural talent imo, but he needs to prove it at a top club.

i'm very confident he will though.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair, at this time, if fit (big if!), brown has proved himself more than johnson.

johnson has more natural talent imo, but he needs to prove it at a top club.

i'm very confident he will though.

I think Johnson was a excellent signing, he has not proved it at the top though, he has been part of a defense that have shipped over a 100 goals in the past 2 seasons.

The likes of Liverpool concede 20 odd, thats were the fine margins are and thats where Johnson will be able to prove himself either way.

Dickerty

Boggles wrote: »

I think Johnson was a excellent signing, he has not proved it at the top though, he has been part of a defense that have shipped over a 100 goals in the past 2 seasons.

The likes of Liverpool concede 20 odd, thats were the fine margins are and thats where Johnson will be able to prove himself either way.

And he's been busy getting a lot of practice defending, whereas with us he can show his attacking flair more. Should free him up a little...

Boggles

Dickerty wrote: »

And he's been busy getting a lot of practice defending, whereas with us he can show his attacking flair more. Should free him up a little...

Haha, He would get away with alot of mistakes at Pompey or they would go unnoticed.



No More.

SlickRic

Dickerty wrote: »

And he's been busy getting a lot of practice defending, whereas with us he can show his attacking flair more. Should free him up a little...

absolutely. he should add a whole new dimension going forward.

he'll still have to prove he can defend though. it's a different skill and discipline staying solid at the back when your team is able to flood forward.

flahavaj

The 6-7 pages of back and forth arguing proves one thing and one thing only.

Fergie trolled you all!!!

therecklessone

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purple_hatstand

Dickerty wrote: »

It is great if two players have a great understanding, like Sami and Stephane or Macca and Fowler. But you still need to consider how good that partnership is, and how good they are as individuals. You cannot be afraid to break up a partnership for the good of the overall team. 3 years ago, no one would break up Gerrard and Alonso in the middle, but things change, and we are better for it with Gerrard up top and a true defensive midfielder in Javier.

Agreed. Alonso & Masch's CM partnership would not be broken up if Alonso was staying, though because it would not be "for the good of the overall team".

Dublin_Gunner

Jayob10 wrote: »

that is a correct statement but it was a tactical decision on the managers behalf to play Xabi in the more deep lying role. He could also get forward effectively when let of the leash and he had a mean shot from distance. Theres more to Xabi's game than playing 5-10 yeard passes to feet.

Hence the '90%' in my post

TBH I wouldn't take Fabregas as some have stated in this thread, he's too lightweight, and I think a little too attacking for what we need. He does a job for Arsenal, but they generally have a big gaping hole for him to play in - similar, but a little deeper to where Gerrard plays for us. Not that there'd be a hope in hell of signing him anyway.

Stephen Ireland would be the ultimate purchase for our midfield IMO, but fat bloomin' chance of that happening, or Arteta, who I'd also take.

I'm happy enough with the rumour mill surrounding Aquilani, I think he'd have a lot to offer us, and could potentially slot in as an exact replacement for Alonso, but little more attack minded.

I don;t know, I guess we could speculate as to who would be perfect, but we'll have to reserve judgement until Rafa signs someone.

Mr Alan

Aqualini or Defour for me.

They're the most realistic.

whatawaster

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Hence the '90%' in my post

TBH I wouldn't take Fabregas as some have stated in this thread, he's too lightweight, and I think a little too attacking for what we need. He does a job for Arsenal, but they generally have a big gaping hole for him to play in - similar, but a little deeper to where Gerrard plays for us. Not that there'd be a hope in hell of signing him anyway.

Stephen Ireland would be the ultimate purchase for our midfield IMO, but fat bloomin' chance of that happening, or Arteta, who I'd also take.

I'm happy enough with the rumour mill surrounding Aquilani, I think he'd have a lot to offer us, and could potentially slot in as an exact replacement for Alonso, but little more attack minded.

I don;t know, I guess we could speculate as to who would be perfect, but we'll have to reserve judgement until Rafa signs someone.

Fabregas doesn't play as far forward as Gerrard. He's a proper CM. He'd be too perfect for us. He'd be perfect for anyone.