Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

8-10

aaronh007 wrote: »

"So this is why we beat them 4-0 on aggregate last season...."

I recall 5-0.... :P

Glico Man

8-10 wrote: »

I recall 5-0.... :P

Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing....

Headshot

why has he only 11 appearances for the national side

italy national side has been a shambles for awhile now

just find it strange that he cant displace pirlo ?

Karmafaerie

Jayob10 wrote: »

Of all the players in all the world, why does Rafa Benitez seem intent on gambling a reputed £20m of the club's money on an injury prone midfielder who has barely managed 27 league starts in the last 3 years?

Rafa was very complimentary indeed:

“Alberto is a very good player who has a winning mentality and great experience... He has long been recognised as a top class talent in Italy, captaining his country at both under 19 and under 21 levels before establishing himself in the senior national side."

Despite Benitez’s (exaggerated) claims, I really do not get the logic behind this buy. When Xabi Alonso’s move to Real Madrid was confirmed, Benitez revealed that he would try and find the “best replacement” available and do the “best deal for the club". Considering Aquilani’s horrendous injury record and intermittent appearance record, how is he the “best replacement” for Alonso?

Aquilani’s recent injury record
* 4 Oct 2007 – 1 Jan 2008: Calf injury
* 24 Oct 2008 – 21 Nov 2008: Thigh injury
* 28 Nov 2008 – 2 Jan 2009: Thigh injury
* 13 Feb 2009 – 10 Mar 2009: Ankle
* 12 Mar 2009 – Present: Ankle (recent surgery)

Add up the months spent on the sidelines! These are just recent injury figures and do not include injuries from earlier in his career.

Appearance stats

Okay, lets look at this a bit shall we.

I don't have the exact dates, as I can't be bothered looking them up TBH.


Gerrard

Out injured with toe
Hamsring.
Groin.
Groin again

That I can think of in the last two years.


Torres

Hamstring.
Hamstring.
Groin.
Hamstring.


Alonso

Exactly how much of the season before last did Alonso play?
How many times did he break his foot that season?


Agger

Back.
Foot.

Pretty much a whole season missed.



Skrtel

Knee.
Hamstring.



You see when you look at things subjectively, it puts a whole different shine on things.
Aquilanni has had injury problems over the last few years, playing in a team that is famous for it's injury problems.

Last season alone, Riise, Toti, Aquilani, Cichino, Baptista, and Perrota thatI can think of spent time injured, and at least half of those injuries happened in training.

Riise and Baptista, both more than used to the physical premiership both came out and said the training was ridiculous.


I don't see anyone calling Torres a crock.
Or nobody is pointing out Alonso's injury record.

flahavaj

Headshot wrote: »

why has he only 11 appearances for the national side

italy national side has been a shambles for awhile now

just find it strange that he cant displace pirlo ?

Injured all the time.:pac:

Karmafaerie

Headshot wrote: »

why has he only 11 appearances for the national side

italy national side has been a shambles for awhile now

just find it strange that he cant displace pirlo ?

Because he's 25.

Because he has been out for a fair portion of the last few seasons meaning he was only 23, and Pirlo 28 and one of the best midfielders in the world, when Aquilani had a proper run.

But mainly because Italy over the last few years have stuck dogedly to it's old team and rejected anything new, a point that's been all over the international press after the Confederations Cup debacle for Italy.

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Because he's 25.

Because he has been out for a fair portion of the last few seasons meaning he was only 23, and Pirlo 28 and one of the best midfielders in the world, when Aquilani had a proper run.

But mainly because Italy over the last few years have stuck dogedly to it's old team and rejected anything new, a point that's been all over the international press after the Confederations Cup debacle for Italy.

idk about anything new

G.Rossi is getting in the team these days

also you'd have to presume he'd get alot of sub appearances too

ilovelamp2000

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Okay, lets look at this a bit shall we.

I don't have the exact dates, as I can't be bothered looking them up TBH.


Gerrard

Out injured with toe
Hamsring.
Groin.
Groin again

That I can think of in the last two years.


Torres

Hamstring.
Hamstring.
Groin.
Hamstring.


Alonso

Exactly how much of the season before last did Alonso play?
How many times did he break his foot that season?


Agger

Back.
Foot.

Pretty much a whole season missed.



Skrtel

Knee.
Hamstring.



You see when you look at things subjectively, it puts a whole different shine on things.
Aquilanni has had injury problems over the last few years, playing in a team that is famous for it's injury problems.

Last season alone, Riise, Toti, Aquilani, Cichino, Baptista, and Perrota thatI can think of spent time injured, and at least half of those injuries happened in training.

Riise and Baptista, both more than used to the physical premiership both came out and said the training was ridiculous.


I don't see anyone calling Torres a crock.
Or nobody is pointing out Alonso's injury record.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make ?

Is it that we have a squad full of injury prone players ?

Great.

mayordenis

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What exactly is the point you're trying to make ?

Is it that we have a squad full of injury prone players ?

Great.

Jayz non stop anger since you started posting here.

The point is that most players pick up a few injuries especially the little strains here and there - but the treatment of the clubs medical and the potential rushing back by the coaching staff, maybe even an error in judgment by the player (wanting to get back to action too soon) would result in an average injury record being exacerbated.

The Rooster

Well, has Martin Kelly elevated himself to 4th choice centre back and 2nd choice right back... Certainly looks better than San Jose and Degen. In fairness, his defending wasnt really tested, but he looks quality on the ball, and is strong and quick. Hope we don't sign any more CBs now.

Degen isnt bad on the right wing.

I wonder if Pacheco and Nemeth had played v Lyn, would they have done better than Voronin and Ngog? I think they might, but the lads got their goals and look firmly in position as the back-up strikeforce.

Dickerty

With regard to Aqua's injury record, it is 3 injuries in 2 seasons - first couple for 2 months each (and over the winter break, less games in Italy), and then the ankle injury which can happen to anyone.

So he's had some injuries in the last 3 seasons, put on the flip side he played 113 games in the previous 3 seasons.

He is over 6' 1", so no wilting flower. I would be more concerned if he has recurring problems with one thing, such as an achilles, knee or hamstring...

Cyrus

some unbelievable stuff in this thread now,

a lot of liverpool 'fans' backed up with wikipedia facts and having seen him play a few poor games for a poor roma side in the CL are writing aquilani off

and then the united fans are happy to stoke the fire with some bile of their own, comparing him to hargreaves (some reports say he may never play again) and owen (who most recognise was badly handled by newcastle and rushed back too often).

let me put it this way for those of you rubbishing the 'in rafa we trust comments'

id rather trust the man who won the CL with a team including Traore and Smicer while 3-0 to AC milan at half time in the final and who led us to our record points total in the league last year, than the arm chair experts who have hardly seen this lad play and who are using wikipedia for their facts.

in the main rafas expensive transfer buys have worked out and where they have not he has acted quickly to move the player on, liverpool have bought an italian international and by all accounts roma's star player, he could be a great success,

compare him to torres when we bought him, he was a technically excellent player, playing in a relatively poor team and his goalscoring record was average at best, now he is in the top 3 centre forwards in the world,

In Rafa we trust, at least those of us with enough cop on to realise he might know a little more than the rest of us

mayordenis

The Rooster wrote: »

Well, has Martin Kelly elevated himself to 4th choice centre back and 2nd choice right back... Certainly looks better than San Jose and Degen. In fairness, his defending wasnt really tested, but he looks quality on the ball, and is strong and quick. Hope we don't sign any more CBs now.

Degen isnt bad on the right wing.

I wonder if Pacheco and Nemeth had played v Lyn, would they have done better than Voronin and Ngog? I think they might, but the lads got their goals and look firmly in position as the back-up strikeforce.

I'm not saying you are wrong or anything of the sort but just thinking about it know they are 4 very very different style of striker.

N'gog -Tall and Quick. can hold up the ball, win in the air or go for a straight sprint.

Voronin - small, but strong, real link up player and despite the stigma around him is a reasonably smart player good touch, well able to pass and can score-ish.

Pacheco - little skillmonger with quick feet, capable of the sublime but physically the weakest and shortest of the lot (not to say that will stop him though), great from a dead ball, just pure technique.

Nemeth - Of the 4 is the most natural finisher, probably a good balance. Good with both feet and head, quick but not exactly lightning, not a big monster but well able to hold his own, not overly tall but does well in the air.

If nothing else we have options. Rafa likes options.

zing

Looks like the Carlsberg deal could continue for another while:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL553265220090805?rpc=401&

Hopefully the amount we get goes up over previous years but I can't see this being a long term deal. They'll most likely want to do a shirt & naming rights deal around the stadium (should it ever happen) and this will prob just be a stop gap until then.

yom 1

Cyrus wrote: »

some unbelievable stuff in this thread now,

a lot of liverpool 'fans' backed up with wikipedia facts and having seen him play a few poor games for a poor roma side in the CL are writing aquilani off

and then the united fans are happy to stoke the fire with some bile of their own, comparing him to hargreaves (some reports say he may never play again) and owen (who most recognise was badly handled by newcastle and rushed back too often).

let me put it this way for those of you rubbishing the 'in rafa we trust comments'

id rather trust the man who won the CL with a team including Traore and Smicer while 3-0 to AC milan at half time in the final and who led us to our record points total in the league last year, than the arm chair experts who have hardly seen this lad play and who are using wikipedia for their facts.

in the main rafas expensive transfer buys have worked out and where they have not he has acted quickly to move the player on, liverpool have bought an italian international and by all accounts roma's star player, he could be a great success,

compare him to torres when we bought him, he was a technically excellent player, playing in a relatively poor team and his goalscoring record was average at best, now he is in the top 3 centre forwards in the world,

In Rafa we trust, at least those of us with enough cop on to realise he might know a little more than the rest of us

Now thats an excellent post. kudos!

Its always the same in this thread. People are far too quick to look for negative side of everything with Kuyt, Yossi, Babel, Voronin and Lucas having all been on the receiving end of it over the last year. Now we have a player who hasn't had a training session, let alone a match yet with Liverpool and he is already being written off as a failure by some.

I have no problem with someone questioning anything Rafa does or anyone he signs as it would be wrong if people just blindly followed him. However I do realise that Rafa is far more knowledgable on all things football related than any of us and as such will give everyone of his signings time before I pass judgement on them be it good or bad.

Every signing is a risk, just wait and see what happens............hopefully we'll have another quality player on our hands!

Karmafaerie

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What exactly is the point you're trying to make ?

Is it that we have a squad full of injury prone players ?

Great.

As MayorDennis said, my point is that if you look at any player over a few years, you'll see that it can look as if they have questionable injury records.

Torres has missed a fair bit for us since coming, and I don't think anyone would call him a bad buy.
The post I was responding to, was leaning towards saying Rafa was wrong for buying Aquilani as he's injury prone, before we've even signed the guy!

None of us have any idea what kind of injury problems Aquilani actually has, but I'm sure the highly paid medical staff at Liverpool do.
Lets let them decide if Aquaman is a crock or not.

noodler

yom 1 wrote: »

Now thats an excellent post. kudos!

Its always the same in this thread. People are far too quick to look for negative side of everything with Kuyt, Yossi, Babel, Voronin and Lucas having all been on the receiving end of it over the last year. Now we have a player who hasn't had a training session, let alone a match yet with Liverpool and he is already being written off as a failure by some.

I have no problem with someone questioning anything Rafa does or anyone he signs as it would be wrong if people just blindly followed him. However I do realise that Rafa is far more knowledgable on all things football related than any of us and as such will give everyone of his signings time before I pass judgement on them be it good or bad.

Every signing is a risk, just wait and see what happens............hopefully we'll have another quality player on our hands!

Indeed, why even have a Liverpool thread? Lets just all agree that everything is going to be fine and dandy at Liverpool forever.

yom 1

noodler wrote: »

Indeed, why even have a Liverpool thread? Lets just all agree that everything is going to be fine and dandy at Liverpool forever.

yeah cos thats exactly what I said...............

Boggles

Aquiliani injury history is being overstated, he didn't play that much for Roma the past 3 years because he was a squad player. When he was fit he couldn't nail down a starting place and before his latest injury he was very much a subsitute.

Great business for Roma to be fair, 16-20 million for a reserve midfielder, deal was done months ago it seems.

Laughable people bringing up Romas "Training Regime" as an excuse for the lad, not as funny as people writing him off before he even kicks a ball for the Scouse though, give the lad a chance FFS and by a chance I mean til Christmas or even March.

---

Is that the spending over for Rafa now, any word?

PiE

Jayob10 wrote: »

words words words

You've said an awful lot about how Rafa's got it wrong without giving any indication on how he could get it right. Who should he sign instead? Should he alter the formation? How do we know he's not planning on altering the formation? Will he be lambasted if he does?

I won't say anything about your knowledge of Aquilani, however all you seem to have is Wikipedia stats... but well done for putting a coherent post together; it's better than the one-line quips.

Cyrus

Boggles wrote: »

Aquiliani injury history is being overstated, he didn't play that much for Roma the past 3 years because he was a squad player. When he was fit he couldn't nail down a starting place and before his latest injury he was very much a subsitute.

Great business for Roma to be fair, 16-20 million for a reserve midfielder, deal was done months ago it seems.

Laughable people bringing up Romas "Training Regime" as an excuse for the lad, not as funny as people writing him off before he even kicks a ball for the Scouse though, give the lad a chance FFS and by a chance I mean til Christmas or even March.

---

Is that the spending over for Rafa now, any word?

more stirring from boggles, squad player was he :rolleyes:

yom 1

Boggles wrote: »

Laughable people bringing up Romas "Training Regime" as an excuse for the lad, not as funny as people writing him off before he even kicks a ball for the Scouse though, give the lad a chance FFS and by a chance I mean til Christmas or even March.

Completely agree with you

a new thread, a new boggles.......now with common sense!lol:pac:

Is that the spending over for Rafa now, any word?

Hopefully not. I still feel we a short an attacking player and a central defender. And if the reported figures are to be believed Rafa should still have a bit of money to play with

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

more stirring from boggles, squad player was he :rolleyes:

What was he then?

yom 1

Injured........:p

mike65

Ooooh, any chance the mods can close this thread and we try again, and do it properly this time?

Y' know, considered opinion rather than scattershot nonsense by way of goal.com/SSN/Wiki. Proper analysis with context. An understanding that Rafa is not an idiot, as much as some are keen to suggest he is.

The next school term/end of summer work break can't come soon enough.

HashSlinging

Aquilani was with them since a kid, not much of a squad player he came up through the ranks.

Think your Beckam at the stage a couple of years before he left.

Boggles

HashSlinging wrote: »

Aquilani was with them since a kid, not much of a squad player he came up through the ranks.

Think your Beckam at the stage a couple of years before he left.

Beckham was a fully fledged first team starter a couple years before he left and probably one of the best players in the world?

whatawaster

I’m sure the staff will be very careful with Aquilani. I can see him playing a lot of the “easier” home games against lower sides at first, as well as Champions League matches. The league games will be played at Liverpool’s tempo so he’ll find the pace easier, and the CL games he’ll be well used to. Lucas can play in some of the trickier games until Aquilani is ready, and I’m sure they’ll be rotated throughout the season which should help Aquilani’s recuperation as he’ll get plenty of rest.

astrofool

mike65 wrote: »

Ooooh, any chance the mods can close this thread and we try again, and do it properly this time?

Y' know, considered opinion rather than scattershot nonsense by way of goal.com/SSN/Wiki. Proper analysis with context. An understanding that Rafa is not an idiot, as much as some are keen to suggest he is.

The next school term/end of summer work break can't come soon enough.

Because the previous Liverpool threads (or any superthreads) were intellectual bastions for future generations to look back on in awe and rafa tinted glasses?

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

What was he then?

To be fair he was probably never fully fit over the last year or two. I’ve read several articles on other sites about the Roma managers harsh training regime and how they rush players back from injury. So I don’t think you can fully judge on the last few years. But didn’t he start important CL games for them in the last few years? I think he played against Arsenal, not sure about United?

HashSlinging

Boggles wrote: »

Beckham was a fully fledged first team starter a couple years before he left and probably one of the best players in the world?

Thats debatable, he was Manchester uniteds best player, did he win a world cup ?

Cyrus

Boggles wrote: »

Beckham was a fully fledged first team starter a couple years before he left and probably one of the best players in the world?

beckham was one of the best players in the world

now when did this happen :pac:

Dickerty

Can we not just agree that we don't know yet?

Yes, he's been injured, as have so many players in so many teams.
Yes, he is clearly talented, and good change he'd be with a bigger team already if not for the injury.
No, we don't know if he will work out, but he will have experienced and hard working players in Mascherano, Kuyt and Gerrard on 3 sides of him, so the support will be there.

whatawaster

Cyrus wrote: »

beckham was one of the best players in the world

now when did this happen :pac:

Beckham was world class. Probably the best crosser of the ball football has ever seen.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Laughable people bringing up Romas "Training Regime" as an excuse for the lad, not as funny as people writing him off before he even kicks a ball for the Scouse though, give the lad a chance FFS and by a chance I mean til Christmas or even March.

Yeah.
I mean it's not as if there's any proof or anything.
Or it's not as if Roma's training methoods have never been questioned before.

By their players.
By their fans who organised a protest in relation to them
By the media in Italy.

Roma were the first Serie A side to get their pre-season training underway last week, however unfortunately for their sake the same problems struck the club yet again right from the onset.

In fact, after just one week of training, the Giallorossi suffered three injuries to Jeremy Menez, who strained a muscle, Max Tonetto, who had a knee complaint, and Simone Perrotta, who severely strained his left thigh, which will keep him out on the sidelines for the next two months.

To make matters worse, Goal Italia has reported that injury almost struck again in yesterday’s training session at their Trigoria training complex, after Francesco Totti was on the receiving end of a tough challenge by John Arne Riise.

Cyrus

whatawaster wrote: »

Beckham was world class. Probably the best crosser of the ball football has ever seen.

his delivery and set pieces were excellent but he was relatively limited outside of that, never had him in the world class category myself

whatawaster

Cyrus wrote: »

his delivery and set pieces were excellent but he was relatively limited outside of that, never had him in the world class category myself

But what more do you need from a winger other than amazing delivery from both dead balls and crosses. He didn't need pace, he didn't need to beat players. He has more assists per game played than anyone else in premier league history.

Karmafaerie

whatawaster wrote: »

But what more do you need from a winger other than amazing delivery from both dead balls and crosses. He didn't need pace, he didn't need to beat players. He has more assists per game played than anyone else in premier league history.

The ability to defend.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

The ability to defend.

Which he was excellent at???

The Rooster

mike65 wrote: »

Ooooh, any chance the mods can close this thread and we try again, and do it properly this time?

Y' know, considered opinion rather than scattershot nonsense by way of goal.com/SSN/Wiki. Proper analysis with context. An understanding that Rafa is not an idiot, as much as some are keen to suggest he is.

The next school term/end of summer work break can't come soon enough.

5 different bogglefeeders in the last 40 minutes is far worse than any of the above!

whatawaster

Karmafaerie wrote: »

The ability to defend.

I don’t think you expect a great level of technically great defending from a winger – they just need to get themselves back to offer support to their fullback like Kuyt does. Beckham’s work rate in that regard was always superb as well.
It’s going to be especially important that Kuyt does that this year. Johnson will leave gaps. Kuyt and Mascherano should have him covered between them though.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

I think he played against Arsenal, not sure about United?

To answer your question he came on against Arsenal for extra time.

He played twice against United, twice he came off injured.

mike65

The Rooster wrote: »

5 different bogglefeeders in the last 40 minutes is far worse than any of the above!

Have to agree, way too many Liverpool supporters dragging things off topic, Beckham? Who cares?

Boggles

mike65 wrote: »

Have to agree, way too many Liverpool supporters dragging things off topic, Beckham? Who cares?

FFS Mike at least people are discussing something resembling football.

All you post is "close thread" and "rant, rant, about posters, etc"

Here I'll help you out.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3145

mike65

Look this is simple enough Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours thread is the title, that is what I'll post about. That what the thread is about, nothing else.

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Look this is simple enough Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours thread is the title, that is what I'll post about. That what the thread is about, nothing else.

Yeah, but it’s almost impossible to have discussions without it going off on tangents – if that’s not allowed to an extent then the discussions will be severely limited

K-9

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yeah.
I mean it's not as if there's any proof or anything.
Or it's not as if Roma's training methoods have never been questioned before.

By their players.
By their fans who organised a protest in relation to them
By the media in Italy.

Not that long ago we seemed to have the same problem.

Ok, so we have established that Aquilani is a crock and waste of money

whatawaster

K-9 wrote: »

Not that long ago we seemed to have the same problem.

Yeah and you see clubs like Newcastle now who seem to suffer perennial injury crises. It has to be more than bad luck. Good training can clearly make a difference. Our injury record over the last few seasons has been generally good, so hopefully the physio can work his magic on Aquilani.

jesus_thats_gre

What are you all actually arguing?