Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Kess73

BastardPrince wrote: »

well you are supposed to be a Liverpool supporter right?

Yes and as such he is entitled to question things and put across his own point of view.


I am sure come matchday he will be roaring on the team and willing them to win as much as anyone.

Kess73

Pro. F wrote: »

This is silly talk imo. Just because you're a supporter shouldn't mean you have to drop your own objective reasoning. Surely if people are being honest then some people are going to have doubts about some of the manager's decisions.

Ah but don't forget that there is another level of football supporter known as the superfan. Superfans have the final say, and having a point of view that differs from their one is not allowed.

colly10

Pro. F wrote: »

This is silly talk imo. Just because you're a supporter shouldn't mean you have to drop your own objective reasoning. Surely if people are being honest then some people are going to have doubts about some of the manager's decisions.

+1 - This is why I rarely ever look at this thread anymore, if you go against the status quo or are pessimistic in any way then you are critisised for not being a true supporter even though the people criticising you are unable to look at anything objectively.
That said, im giving aquilini the benefit of the doubt, heard he can be a great player when fit so we'll wait and see. That said the loss of alonso is huge but nothing could really be done about that

SlickRic

therecklessone wrote: »

With all due respect, if people (especially Liverpool fans) can't pose awkward questions without having their support called into question I think I'll rename this the Liverpool are deadly thread and just close it now.

Is there no room for objective assessments of the summers transfer activity?

of course there is.

and when someone like LZ5by5 comes out with his opinion he's more than entitled to it.

there have been plenty on here over the months and years who have battered Rafa for some of his dealings. it makes for a debate, which this is.

i personally just think it's a better idea to give the guy a chance. people can argue that point if they want. we all know the potential risks of this transfer. they've been mentioned on these pages many many times over the last few days; and people have debated and argued.

Headshot mentioned it was a gamble. of course it is. many transfers are. what i'd say is Michael Owen is also a gamble. even though there was no transfer fee, you're still paying him, and many utd fans are attributing upwards of 15 goals to him this season. and for all intents and purposes he could also be labelled a crock.

Aquilani could stay a perma-crock. obviously. but Rafa and his team helped get Stevie over his injury proneness for example. also the mental Roma regime is no more for him. so he could easily get fit and play every game.

personally, i can't wait 4-8 weeks to see what he's all about.

jesus_thats_gre

The problem with us Liverpool fans at the moment is that we are so desperate to win the league that it has caused us to become extremely short sighted. When this happens, common sense and patience has a tendency to be thrown out the window and you end up in a situation like we are in now.

It is sad to see United fans coming in here and having to appease some fans over the signing of a presently injured player.

As has been said, if Rafa deems Aquilani to be the best replacement for Alonso then I am happy with this. I too was worried about his susceptibility to an injury or 10 but I have read the reports of the training regime that Roma players must go through and I am confident that the clubs medical staff would have checked him out quite thoroughly. I too am worried that he might miss the first few weeks of the season but this would have been carefully considered before the club shelled out up to 20 million.

Ultimately, you only need to look at the sigings that Rafa has made in the centre of midfield and know that he knows what he is going.

Look at our opening list of fixtures:

16/08 Spurs away
19/08 Stoke home
24/08 Villa home
29/08 Bolton away
12/09 Burnley home
19/09 West Ham away
26/09 Hull home

There should be enough in our current squad to come away with the vast majority of the 21 points available from those games. If we can't do that, our squad just isn't good enough.

Headshot

Bandit12 wrote: »

Every signing is a gamble.

that's a true enough in 1 aspect but buying a player that has injury record,just asking for trouble

podge018 wrote: »

he said 4-8 weeks before he's fully fit, so that includes getting match fit.

from what i read its 4-8 weeks out injured nothing about match fitness

Spiritoftheseventies

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The problem with us Liverpool fans at the moment is that we are so desperate to win the league that it has caused us to become extremely short sighted. When this happens, common sense and patience has a tendency to be thrown out the window and you end up in a situation like we are in now.

It is sad to see United fans coming in here and having to appease some fans over the signing of a presently injured player.

As has been said, if Rafa deems Aquilani to be the best replacement for Alonso then I am happy with this. I too was worried about his susceptibility to an injury or 10 but I have read the reports of the training regime that Roma players must go through and I am confident that the clubs medical staff would have checked him out quite thoroughly. I too am worried that he might miss the first few weeks of the season but this would have been carefully considered before the club shelled out up to 20 million.

Ultimately, you only need to look at the sigings that Rafa has made in the centre of midfield and know that he knows what he is going.

Look at our opening list of fixtures:

16/08 Spurs away
19/08 Stoke home
24/08 Villa home
29/08 Bolton away
12/09 Burnley home
19/09 West Ham away
26/09 Hull home

There should be enough in our current squad to come away with the vast majority of the 21 points available from those games. If we can't do that, our squad just isn't good enough.

Anyone remember Stoke from last year. Think they placed everyone behind the ball. Yes I think that was one of the games that really hurt us.

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

that's a true enough in 1 aspect but buying a player that has injury record,just asking for trouble

are you happy with the owen signing then?

Handsome Bob

BastardPrince wrote: »

well you are supposed to be a Liverpool supporter right?

Come on now, I am showing a genuine concern. If anything it shows that I care deeply about the club I support.

whatawaster wrote: »

I don't understand. Would people rather Rafa went for an inferior option who is match fit at the moment? Personally i'm much happier that he's thinking longer term

Nope. However how do I or you know that there wasn't a player who was just as good as Aquilani out there and who had an immaculate injury free record too? Scouts have to earn their money you know! :pac:

therecklessone wrote: »

With all due respect, if people (especially Liverpool fans) can't pose awkward questions without having their support called into question I think I'll rename this the Liverpool are deadly thread and just close it now.

Is there no room for objective assessments of the summers transfer activity?

Pro. F wrote: »

This is silly talk imo. Just because you're a supporter shouldn't mean you have to drop your own objective reasoning. Surely if people are being honest then some people are going to have doubts about some of the manager's decisions.

Thank you to both of you. For the record, I'm not a Rafa hater. I always defend Rafa where I think it's warranted, such as against Andy Gray's and Ronnie Whelan's assessment of his spending over the past few years.

Headshot

SlickRic wrote: »

are you happy with the owen signing then?

yap because we got him on the free

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

that's a true enough in 1 aspect but buying a player that has injury record,just asking for trouble

from what i read its 4-8 weeks out injured nothing about match fitness

You seem to have very strong opinions on buying a player with a history of injuries. What is your assesment of Hargreaves signing by United?

internelligent

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The problem with us Liverpool fans at the moment is that we are so desperate to win the league that it has caused us to become extremely short sighted. When this happens, common sense and patience has a tendency to be thrown out the window and you end up in a situation like we are in now.

It is sad to see United fans coming in here and having to appease some fans over the signing of a presently injured player.

As has been said, if Rafa deems Aquilani to be the best replacement for Alonso then I am happy with this. I too was worried about his susceptibility to an injury or 10 but I have read the reports of the training regime that Roma players must go through and I am confident that the clubs medical staff would have checked him out quite thoroughly. I too am worried that he might miss the first few weeks of the season but this would have been carefully considered before the club shelled out up to 20 million.

Ultimately, you only need to look at the sigings that Rafa has made in the centre of midfield and know that he knows what he is going.

Look at our opening list of fixtures:

16/08 Spurs away
19/08 Stoke home
24/08 Villa home
29/08 Bolton away
12/09 Burnley home
19/09 West Ham away
26/09 Hull home

There should be enough in our current squad to come away with the vast majority of the 21 points available from those games. If we can't do that, our squad just isn't good enough.

Totally agree with this. If our squad can't cope because we're down 1 player then we'll always struggle. From some of the reports I've read about Lucas' improvement we should well be able to manage those 7 opening fixtures.

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

yap because we got him on the free

fair enough; i kind of assumed that'd be your answer.

he could still be a waste of time and wages.

the same principle still applies. he's still a gamble. maybe not quite as big a gamble due to less financila outlay, but a gamble all the same.

i'm hopeful though. as has been mentioned, Rafa's record on central midfielders is pretty good so far.

SlickRic

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You seem to have very strong opinions on buying a player with a history of injuries. What is your assesment of Hargreaves signing by United?

why did i choose the owen example? ha!

jesus_thats_gre

bayviewclose wrote: »

Anyone remember Stoke from last year. Think they placed everyone behind the ball. Yes I think that was one of the games that really hurt us.

Yup, I remember the corresponding fixture last year. I also remember scoring a perfectly valid goal. I seem to remember about 25 attempts on goal and about 10 corners. Twas quite like majority of other games that we lost or drew last season, i.e. just couldn't stick the ball in the net.

internelligent

SlickRic wrote: »

why did i choose the owen example? ha!

I always forget about Hargreaves too. It's been ages since he's been around though so don't feel bad.

jesus_thats_gre

SlickRic wrote: »

why did i choose the owen example? ha!

I always pick the good examples even a similar fee

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You seem to have very strong opinions on buying a player with a history of injuries. What is your assesment of Hargreaves signing by United?

bar 2 season at bayern 2002–03 & 2006–07

he wasnt injured

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You seem to have very strong opinions on buying a player with a history of injuries. What is your assesment of Hargreaves signing by United?

Disappointing. That said he has contributed to success, not as much as I would have liked and hopefully he can put it behind him.

The difference is Hargreaves was signed to supplement Uniteds squad, not to replace a key member, also United have been extremely successful without him, so meh.

therecklessone

SlickRic wrote: »

i personally just think it's a better idea to give the guy a chance. people can argue that point if they want. we all know the potential risks of this transfer. they've been mentioned on these pages many many times over the last few days; and people have debated and argued.

I think writing off a player who hasn't kicked a ball in anger is incredibly short-sighted, but then I was responding in the context of LZ5by5's support being called into question, when he clearly wasn't writing the guy off:

LZ5by5 wrote: »

All I can say is that we'll see what kind of position we are in the league by the time he is fit (which potentially won't be until towards the end of September).

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm not criticising Aquilani. I'm unhappy that in terms of this season Rafa has signed a player who will at most miss two months of the season. Where does that leave us? Throwing Lucas in at the deep end (not criticising Lucas, I just think it's unfair to expect him to pick up Alonso's mantle for at most two months)? Or breaking up the Torres-Gerrard partnership by moving the latter back into midfield? Neither of those options give me confidence.

Two months is a long time in the season.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm not criticising him, I'm criticising the fact that we are lightweight in midfield for potentially two months.

Objectively speaking, Liverpool have been weakened by Alonso out/Aquilani in, at least until the Italian regains his fitness and starts to feature. Maybe it will work out, maybe Liverpool have enough strength in the squad to start the season well given the above, and if so great, but unless I'm very much mistaken one of the reasons we all post here is to debate these sort of things.

It's a valid concern, expressed by a Liverpool fan, and he deserves better than "in Rafa we trust" in return.

whatawaster

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Nope. However how do I or you know that there wasn't a player who was just as good as Aquilani out there and who had an immaculate injury free record too? Scouts have to earn their money you know! :pac:

If there was a player Rafa judged to be better he would have bought him or tried to at least.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, I remember the corresponding fixture last year. I also remember scoring a perfectly valid goal. I seem to remember about 25 attempts on goal and about 10 corners. Twas quite like majority of other games that we lost or drew last season, i.e. just couldn't stick the ball in the net.

It was Lucas' fault, stop making excuses

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

The difference is Hargreaves was signed to supplement Uniteds squad, not to replace a key member, also United have been extremely successful without him, so meh.

I don't believe that you believe this Boggles. Fletcher stepping up as glossed over the disastrous signing that Hargreaves was/is but he was defo signed to be first choice and you all desperately wanted him fit for the CL final against Barca. You would all dearly love him to be fit for this season. Not quite a meh.

mike65

Owen Hargreaves, who? He has played 34 games in two seasons. So at £17 million to sign is costing 500,000 per game so far + wages.

SlickRic

therecklessone wrote: »

It's a valid concern, expressed by a Liverpool fan, and he deserves better than "in Rafa we trust" in return.

of couse it's valid, i never said it wasn't. and i don't think many others are saying it's not valid as a point of debate. people are disagreeing yes, but that's part of it.

i know LZby5 is a passionate supporter. i enjoy his opinions.

he brought in the 'In Rafa we Trust' line though. as far as i can see, the vast majority are debating on point in a non-dismissive manner.

~Rebel~

On Aqualani, tbh id be very surprised if he isn't starting games within 6 weeks. He's had the surgey, the problem has been resolved, its all recovery and returning to fitness from here. Also Liverpool always always put out very pessimistic return dates, and (barring setbacks) the players always return before those dates.

On the hargreaves comparison, tbh if it turned out like that i'd be extremely disappointed, but hopefully it wont.

jesus_thats_gre

mike65 wrote: »

Owen Hargreaves, who? He has played 34 games in two seasons. So at £17 million to sign is costing 500,000 per game so far + wages.

To qualify that further. He has started a grand total of 17 league games.

His record starts in league games since of the start of his career is as follows:

08/09 Man Utd 1 (aged 27)
07/08 Man Utd 16 (aged 26)
06/07 Bayern 9 (aged 25)
05/06 Bayern 14 (aged 24)
04/05 Bayern 20 (aged 23)
03/04 Bayern 26 (aged 22)
02/03 Bayern 22 (aged 21)
01/02 Bayern 20 (aged 20)

Spiritoftheseventies

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, I remember the corresponding fixture last year. I also remember scoring a perfectly valid goal. I seem to remember about 25 attempts on goal and about 10 corners. Twas quite like majority of other games that we lost or drew last season, i.e. just couldn't stick the ball in the net.

Yes for me it was definitely the game that got away. And without Alonso now in midfield were are our creative options going to come from now. Heard this new chap Aqualani can spray the ball around but he seems to be injury prone by all accounts. I seriously think we need more players to making it through the academy so hopefully King Kenny can sort that for us.

stevoslice

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes for me it was definitely the game that got away. And without Alonso now in midfield were are our creative options going to come from now. Heard this new chap Aqualani can spray his balls around but he seems to be injury prone by all accounts. I seriously think we need more players to making it through the academy so hopefully King Kenny can sort that for us.

hopefully, can especially see the homegrown youngsters upping their game for the legend that is wee kenny.

Pro. F

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

What is your assesment of Hargreaves signing by United?

That was an absolute sh!te signing, no doubt. He had severe tendonitus at the time so we never should have bought him.

Has anybody got any links to articles on the mad Roma training regimes, today is the first i've heard of this.

whatawaster

Pro. F wrote: »

That was an absolute sh!te signing, no doubt. He had severe tendonitus at the time so we never should have bought him.

Has anybody got any links to articles on the mad Roma training regimes, today is the first i've heard of this.

Don't have a link, but I think it might have been posted a day or two back here.

Chardee MacDennis

Pro. F wrote: »

This is silly talk imo. Just because you're a supporter shouldn't mean you have to drop your own objective reasoning. Surely if people are being honest then some people are going to have doubts about some of the manager's decisions.

Kess73 wrote: »

Yes and as such he is entitled to question things and put across his own point of view.


I am sure come matchday he will be roaring on the team and willing them to win as much as anyone.

where did i say reasoned debate wasnt open, but a lot of you sounds like you would prefer him to fail than be proved wrong. Some people around here sound like the kind of people that booed Lucas which imo is unbecoming of a Liverpool fan. And lets be honest 95% of us know little to nothing about Aquilani so have an open mind before you freak over an injury that will last 1/24th of his contract...

jesus_thats_gre

Pro. F wrote: »

That was an absolute sh!te signing, no doubt. He had severe tendonitus at the time so we never should have bought him.

Has anybody got any links to articles on the mad Roma training regimes, today is the first i've heard of this.

Someone posted up something recently but can't find it..

Here is a link to Spaletti's wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciano_Spalletti

Spalletti has recently been accused by many Roma fans of making tough training Schedules.That have left many of Roma's key players with Injury's thorugh out the season and this leading to the poor 2008/09 campaign.

mike65

As I commented elsewhere -

All I can do is judge him on what I have seen - flickery youtube vids mainly. He is physically imposing, he likes to run and keep the game moving, likes to get forwards and shoot, seems to have a decent right foot.

Will he adapt? I dunno lets give him a chance
Will is stay fit? I dunno, lets wait and see.
Will he be worth 20 million? I dunno, ask me in 9 months.

Handsome Bob

SlickRic wrote: »

of couse it's valid, i never said it wasn't. and i don't think many others are saying it's not valid as a point of debate. people are disagreeing yes, but that's part of it.

i know LZby5 is a passionate supporter. i enjoy his opinions.

he brought in the 'In Rafa we Trust' line though. as far as i can see, the vast majority are debating on point in a non-dismissive manner.

I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest and as a result this will be the last thing I say on the matter. I brought up the "In Rafa We Trust" line because sure enough, my passion for the team was being dismissed. Why? Because I dared to voice my concerns;

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Liverpool fans really are a special bunch. Sickens me reading some of the stuff posted on this thread.

Bandit12 wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff. I remember years ago a new player was given the chance over the course of the first season to settle in and prove his worth....now they are written off before they even kick a ball in anger. As a Liverpool fan i really do wonder sometimes about some of our so called "supporters":rolleyes:

BastardPrince wrote: »

well you are supposed to be a Liverpool supporter right?

The above quotes were IMO in reference to me. I'm not a supporter because I refuse to say "happy days, in Rafa we trust."

jesus_thats_gre

LZ5by5 wrote: »

The above quotes were IMO in reference to me. I'm not a supporter because I refuse to say "happy days, in Rafa we trust."

Who says that my post was a reference to what you said?

kingshankly

some on here need a reality check,every time someone criticises anything to do with liverpool and there are hung.i stated my reservations regarding aqualanis signing and your all of a sudden a poor liverpool surporter(despite 25 years going to anfield).
too many liverpool fans are blinkered i have seen some slag of utd for signing owen and then say we have a great signing in aqualani.
i ask which is the greater risk 20 million on an injury prone decent midfielder.or a free injury prone striker with a goal scoring record second to none

spockety

Ooer

Liverpool stalwart Jamie Carragher has spoken out about the aquisition of new midfield dynamo, Alberto Aquilani. In an astonishing outburst, sure to infuriate boss Rafa Benitez ahead of today's friendly encounter at home to Athletico Madrid, Carragher has questioned the manager's judgement in replacing Xabi Alonso with a "bit of a crock".

Speaking late last night, Carragher told journalists "It's ridiculous to be honest. We're losing probably the best passing midfielder in the league, and replacing him with an unproven Italian who won't even be able to play until November or something".

Carraghers comments were greeted with astonishment by assembled journalists, expecting excited responses similar to those provided by Dirk Kuyt, Steven Gerrard, and Benitez himself. Instead, during a tirade that went on for five minutes before he was dragged away by friends, Carragher also indicated that he believes:

* Liverpool will SUFFER as a result of the Aquilani purchase
* Their league title hopes are OVER before a ball has even been kicked
* Benitez's questionable record in the transfer market has taken a further BLOW

"Look, I'm just being honest, I'm as much of a Liverpool supporter as anyone else, and it hurts me that we are buying this guy. 20 million is a lot of money, and it's just crazy that most of the Alonso transfer fee has been chucked away like this. We could have sold Lucas for another 10 million or so, and made a really good pitch to get David Villa in."

Nobody from Liverpool FC was available for comment at the time of writing, however sources confirm that privately Rafa Benitez is livid that his pre-season preparations have been upset by such a senior member of the squad.

Liverpool Vs Athletico Madrid - Saturday 8th August, Kick-off 3pm

kingshankly

spockety wrote: »

Ooer

carragher is now a bad liverpool supporter

Headshot

Wow

DeadSkin

spockety wrote: »

Ooer

Link

Chardee MacDennis

holy **** what is carra doing? saying we should sell Lucas, not have bought a 'crock' in Aquilani and bought David Villa. if true and after the Arbeloa thing he is starting to get on my nerves...

Chardee MacDennis

kingshankly wrote: »

carragher is now a bad liverpool supporter

well whatever about fans saying it, players should keep their mouth shut...

kingshankly

doubt thats a real quote

Handsome Bob

I'm shocked. That sounds a bit too mental to be true. Where did that come from Spockety?

jesus_thats_gre

Wow indeed. I genuinely cannot believe that a senior player can come out with something like that.

spockety

DeadSkin wrote: »

Link

http://tinyurl.com/lu2j9c

DeadSkin

spockety wrote: »

http://tinyurl.com/lu2j9c

Hmmm.

Chardee MacDennis

so you made it up then?

spockety

DeadSkin wrote: »

Hmmm.

Just thought I would join in and make up any old ridiculous unfounded rubbish about our new signing.

Handsome Bob

spockety wrote: »

Just thought I would join in and make up any old ridiculous unfounded rubbish about our new signing.

Oh you bastard! :mad: :eek: