Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Kess73

SlickRic wrote: »

fine by me.

as long as we appreciate him.

i really don't think we know how fortunate we are to have him at times.

I think a lot of us do.

Especially when you think we went from Clemence to Bruce which was basically going from a class keeper to a class keeper and then look at the long list between Bruce and Pepe. It has been that long since we had a keeper that was a genuine world class keeper whilst with us.

I still shudder when I think of Hooper as a Liverpool keeper.

rosboy

I've lifted this from a different site.

Contrary to all the rubbish printed by the British press regarding a 20 million
pound deal for Alberto Aquilani, Roma have themselves revealed the true extent of the payment structure for the Italian (both to the stock exchange as well as their own official site).

The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:

- 4 cash instalments of
- - 5 million EURO upfront
- - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010
- - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010
- - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

Further Add ons include:

- 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15

- 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

- 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

- 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.

Details can be found here (for those fluent in Italian) - http://www.asroma.it/UserFiles/988.pdf

So next time you read any article and it says we paid 20 million Pounds or any other funny amount, reference this article!

If true, we still have a lot of money left to spend this summer.

I can't vouch for the validity of this post though. Not sure if anyone can help with it?

el rabitos

rosboy wrote: »

If true, we still have a lot of money left to spend this summer.

what makes you think that?

jesus_thats_gre

el rabitos wrote: »

what makes you think that?

Got 30m for Alonso?

whatawaster

el rabitos wrote: »

what makes you think that?

well even ommitting the payment plan detailed above, we have effectively spent no money this summer.
We spent 5m NET last season.
I don't think Rafa would have happily signed a contract with that sort of budget. If he did he's a saint.

rosboy

el rabitos wrote: »

what makes you think that?

I'm pretty much going from the figures that have bee reported for our transfers so far. I've used the figures whatawaster used a few days ago to say me pulling them together myself...thanks whatawaster:P

whatawaster wrote: »

Our spend this summer is NIL

IN:
Johnson 17
Aquilani 20
OUT
Alonso 30
Arbeloa 3.5
Leto 3
Hobbs/Anderson other youngsters (approx) 0.5

If you look at the above figures, its pretty balance.

Out: 37m
In: 37m

That doesn't take into account money from the yanks.

Lets ignore money from the Americans for minute.

We got £30m upfront from Madrid apparantly for Alonso, but we're only paying out €8m in the next year for his replacement. Thats about £6m. So whereas from whatawasters figures we were balanced before we consider money from the yanks, we are now +£14.

I would be shocked if Rafa wasn't even let keep all the money he gets from players sold, even if he doesn't get anything from the owners.

Chardee MacDennis

Kelly has been called up to the U20 England team
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N165356090809-1403.htm

astrofool

Do you really think that you won't have payments to be made for other players bought a couple years ago this year as well?

A lot of transfer fees these days are broken up into 4 or 5 payments.

However, if Rafa really wanted someone out there for 20-25m, I believe he'd be given the budget for it, but I don't think many managers are seeing much value out there at the moment.

daithijjj

astrofool wrote: »

Do you really think that you won't have payments to be made for other players bought a couple years ago this year as well?

A lot of transfer fees these days are broken up into 4 or 5 payments.

However, if Rafa really wanted someone out there for 20-25m, I believe he'd be given the budget for it, but I don't think many managers are seeing much value out there at the moment.

Do you really think that 'we' are paid full transfer fees up front?

I understand the point you are making but the opposite is also true.

joe123

For all we know Alonsos transfer could be in the exact same structure as the Aquilani one.

Mr Alan

exactly.

good to see it was 20m euros though, reckoned thats what it was myself.

mike65

The Alonso deal was almost certainly a single payment, I have no proof but it appears to be the way they paid every other deal this summer.

zing

If not a single payment I'd say there was a considerable chunk of it upfront. However as I've said previously it wouldn't surprise me if the rest (or bulk of the rest anyway) of the Alonso money wasn't reinvested in the team.

spockety

Seen a couple of reports with quotes that Rafa reckons all three of Carra, Agger, and Skrtl may possibly be fit to appear next weekend.

Carra only twisted ankle, couple of days.
Skrtl hamstring now ok, starting back training.
Agger back problem, couple of days.

Benitez said: "Jamie's injury is not serious, just a twisted ankle. But with our injury problems which include Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel, we felt we needed to take him off as a precaution, just in case.

"We will keep an eye on him for two or three days to see how he reacts, but I feel he will be OK. Hopefully, Agger or Skrtel will be fit too.

"Agger has a back problem, and that should be OK in a couple of days. Skrtel is nearly over his hamstring injury, he's nearly there.

"He is training again and I believe that at the end of this week both of them will be fit to play.

spockety

mike65 wrote: »

The Alonso deal was almost certainly a single payment, I have no proof but it appears to be the way they paid every other deal this summer.

Not only that, but I distinctly remember reading somewhere that as well as the amount of money itself, one of Rafa's sticking points that Real ended up buckling on was that all the money be paid up front in one go.

missingtime

spockety wrote: »

Not only that, but I distinctly remember reading somewhere that as well as the amount of money itself, one of Rafa's sticking points that Real ended up buckling on was that all the money be paid up front in one go.

'Cos he wants to buy Aguero...he told me himself.

astrofool

Real did the Ronaldo deal the same way (£80m in one go), does anyone know if Káka and Benzema were similar? They have something very dodgy going on there, to get that amount of loans during the banking crisis is unheard of, I wonder if they're hedged against future inflation?

Anyway, most other transfer deals are done in instalments, the headline fee will represent what the manager has to spend during that transfer window, regardless of instalments (although I'd say this is really just so papers can write stories for the layman, rather than confuse them with credit terms, interest rates, and what the wages + bonus structure to the player will be).

Chardee MacDennis

astrofool wrote: »

Real did the Ronaldo deal the same way (£80m in one go), does anyone know if Káka and Benzema were similar? They have something very dodgy going on there, to get that amount of loans during the banking crisis is unheard of, I wonder if they're hedged against future inflation?

Anyway, most other transfer deals are done in instalments, the headline fee will represent what the manager has to spend during that transfer window, regardless of instalments (although I'd say this is really just so papers can write stories for the layman, rather than confuse them with credit terms, interest rates, and what the wages + bonus structure to the player will be).

apparently they were given one billion euro credit by spanish banks. Spain is financially stable in comparison to the UK, US and us!!

spockety

BastardPrince wrote: »

apparently they were given one billion euro credit by spanish banks. Spain is financially stable in comparison to the UK, US and us!!

Actually that's not true, they're in a severe recession, and their property bubble crash and over reliance on construction looks very similar to ours..

But yes apparently there is incredibly heavy local political pressure on Madrid banks to ensure that Real's well never runs dry.

uberwolf

BastardPrince wrote: »

apparently they were given one billion euro credit by spanish banks. Spain is financially stable in comparison to the UK, US and us!!

is this the same Spain with a higher unemployment rate than ourselves?

mike65

Spain is in the crapper - 18.7% unemployment and the property sector crash like ours. It seems the normal laws of finance don't apply to Francos club

CR 7

That's a ridiculous amount though, if it was true, there wouldn't be any haggling over a couple of million for players. Sure they could buy a team of superstars with that kinda monay.
City probably aren't even allowed that amount to spend on transfers.

Chardee MacDennis

sorry yes, i was completely wrong. was looking at countries accout balances and for some reaosn i had it in my head spain were top 10, it seems they are second last only to the US!! But still doesnt change the fact they were extended a billion euro credit for transfers...

Dublin_Gunner

I missed the last couple of pages, but I have to say I was incredibly impressed by Kelly when he came on yesterday. I would have no problem throwing him in at the deep end.

I was also very impressed by Johnson, and Gerrard, Masch & Torres worked very hard indeed. Insua also impressed IMO. And (a first for me) Lucas deserves a mention.

Don't think we have too much to worry about.

Roll on Spurs.

BastardPrince

BastardPrince wrote: »

sorry yes, i was completely wrong. was looking at countries accout balances and for some reaosn i had it in my head spain were top 10, it seems they are second last only to the US!! But still doesnt change the fact they were extended a billion euro credit for transfers...

Where did this billion figure come from?
Its rubbish.
They were given around 240m,less I think and the players will pay for themselves with merchandising.

The club do hold a stong grip on the country/banks though,they have no problems getting the money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/16/real-madrid-loans-debt

monkey9

If everyone just trusts and believes in Rafa, everything will be ok. I promise!

That is all

Eire-Dearg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1205369/Liverpool.html?ITO=1490

Stoke's Ryan Shawcross is a target for Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez



Rafa Benitez has switched his search for defensive reinforcements to Ryan Shawcross and is considering a £5million bid for the 21-year old Stoke centre-back.

Already linked with Hull central defender Michael Turner and Portsmouth's Sylvain Distin, the Liverpool manager's need for cover at the back became more urgent after Jamie Carragher limped off with an ankle injury against Atletico Madrid on Saturday.

He joined Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger as doubts for next weekend's Barclays Premier League launch.

Shawcross is 6ft 5in and was snapped up from Manchester United 18 months ago, quickly proving his worth in Stoke's first Premier League campaign last season.

Carragher, meanwhile, will have a scan today and Benitez's assessment that there was an 80 per cent chance of at least two of his three injured central defenders being fit to face Tottenham at White Hart Line on Sunday.

Spanish youngsters Danny Ayala and Mikel San Jose, who went on for Carragher in the 16th minute, were pitched in against Atletico Madrid, but Liverpool need proven Premier League pedigree if they are to go one better than last season and finally carry off the title after a 20-year wait.

Another player I've mentioned in the centre-backs we should go for.

whatawaster

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1205369/Liverpool.html?ITO=1490



Another player I've mentioned in the centre-backs we should go for.

it's the Daily Mail, so it's almost certainly nonsense.

Eire-Dearg

whatawaster wrote: »

it's the Daily Mail, so it's almost certainly nonsense.

Yeah, you're right. Do you know what? Why not ban referencing from the Mail altogether? And every other news source in the off chance they spout nonsense.


You can't post one link without someone commenting on the source. :rolleyes:

deadhead13

Nearly all the papers are running with a story that Rafa's transfer budget has shrunk because of Hicks & Gillets refinancing package and the need to repay £60 million of the £290 million over the next 12 months.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/10/rafael-benitez-liverpool-transfer-budget

similiar stories in The Express, The Mirror, The Times and Daily Post

Bandit12

No surprise there. Liverpool,Arsenal and Man U are all in deep dog doo doo with their finances. Said it a while ago that i'd be surprised if we spent more this summer than we had coming in.

Dickerty

mike65 wrote: »

Spain is in the crapper - 18.7% unemployment and the property sector crash like ours. It seems the normal laws of finance don't apply to Francos club

Yeh, they may be bad at a local level, but the likes of Santander have gained ground in recent years as they were not heavily involved in the US property market. They snapped up Abbey National, Alliance & Leicester and Bradford & Bingley, and ABN AMRO in certain markets. So while many big banks are feeling a lot of pain, they are strong by comparison...

The Rooster

Good news from Benitez, indicating that both Agger and Skrtel could be ok for Sunday. Absolutely no point risking them v Madrid, especially when any sort of appearance would have seen them called up for their respective friendly internationals this week.

livinginkorea

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5482808,00.html

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez admits he may have to speak to the club's owners in order to secure more transfer funds to improve his squad.

Benitez has more or less broken even in the transfer market this summer after bringing in Glen Johnson and Alberto Aquilani while selling Xabi Alonso, Alvaro Arbeloa and Sebastien Leto.

He is hoping to sign a new centre-half after Sami Hyypia left the club on a free transfer at the end of last season and has targeted Hull City's Michael Turner.

Hull value Turner at �12million, with reports suggesting Liverpool have offered half that sum and have subsequently been linked with Stoke City stopper Ryan Shawcross as a cheaper alternative.

Benitez concedes he has not been given the money to compete with other clubs, and may have to discuss the situation with the club's American owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks.

Difficult
"We are working hard with the players we have and the money we have," said Benitez.

"It is always difficult to compete in the Premier League with clubs who have more money.

"We had some money, but I will not talk about figures. It is something I have to talk with the club about.

"We try to be ready just in case we can sign someone, but you never know. It depends on the prices.

"If we need something more, we will talk with the owners."

Kingdom

I'd be pretty happy if we went for Shawcross. He'd a very good season last year for a team that were constantly backs to the wall. Tough as nails, a brute and very threatening from set-pieces.
I believe he'd be a better alternative to Turner, and if he's cheaper then even better.

alibabba

Kingdom wrote: »

I'd be pretty happy if we went for Shawcross. He'd a very good season last year for a team that were constantly backs to the wall. Tough as nails, a brute and very threatening from set-pieces.
I believe he'd be a better alternative to Turner, and if he's cheaper then even better.

wouldnt be the worst buy imo

Dublin_Gunner

Shawcross is a good defender, he's big, strong, tackles well, good in the air, and the 2 deal breakres for me - he's young with experience, and if he's £5mil - a bargain for an English player of his standard.

spockety

And his name reminds me of an old cartoon



Ryan Shawcross



Sawboss

whatawaster

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Yeah, you're right. Do you know what? Why not ban referencing from the Mail altogether? And every other news source in the off chance they spout nonsense.


You can't post one link without someone commenting on the source. :rolleyes:

Jesus don’t be so touchy.
Every time a transfer link is posted by someone can people not give their opinion on it?
An opinion formed by many factors – the needs of the club, quality of player, potential cost, alternatives, likelihood of it being true (which is directly related to the source).
Example: we’re linked in Spanish Press to Villa: posters chip in saying he’s too expensive, we don’t need a striker, so and so is better, Marca make up rubbish on a daily basis.
My opinion on the Shawcross article you posted is that I don’t believe a word of it. It may happen, but for now I’m sceptical. The Echo today mentions Turner and Distin.

This money situation doesn’t sound good. And while it would be nice to win the league having spent 5m in 2 years, I feel we need at least 2 new faces.

The Rooster

I see Dossena has been awarded a squad number: - 38

Assuming Skrtel and Agger arent badly injured, then I think buying another centre half would be a waste of money. Maybe next summer when Carra will be 32 and we'll have a better idea if Kelly really is as tidy as he looked in pre-season, we might need additional back-up. But with Skrtel and Agger both only 24, they should be our main pairing for years to come.

I wouldnt be concerned if we didnt buy any more this window.

Dickerty

whatawaster wrote: »

This money situation doesn’t sound good. And while it would be nice to win the league having spent 5m in 2 years, I feel we need at least 2 new faces.

But for what positions? Who are you looking to replace? I think the only one who may be at risk is Riera, as he was not a 90 minute player last year, was ineffective and replaced too often. But in his second season, would expect them to push on.

I think another English centre half would be frugal with the niggles that Agger and Skrtel have had over last 2 seasons. A bit of a concern if we lost Johnson at left back for any period, but Kelly and Derby could cover I think. Or Degen, for a few minutes.

whatawaster

Dickerty wrote: »

But for what positions? Who are you looking to replace? I think the only one who may be at risk is Riera, as he was not a 90 minute player last year, was ineffective and replaced too often. But in his second season, would expect them to push on.

I think another English centre half would be frugal with the niggles that Agger and Skrtel have had over last 2 seasons. A bit of a concern if we lost Johnson at left back for any period, but Kelly and Derby could cover I think. Or Degen, for a few minutes.

Who am I looking to replace? – Arbeloa is a big loss, given that he could play anywhere across the back line.

Our defense at the moment looks thin:

Johnson/Degen/Kelly

---

Carragher/San Jose

---

Agger/Skrtel

---

Aurelio/Insua

Given that a) Aurelio is always injured, b) Degen is always injured and inspires no confidence in anyone c)San Jose and Kelly have no PL experience and d) Insua is quality, but still relatively inexperienced – I think we need cover. Someone experienced like Distin who could probably cover all 4 defensive positions.

Riera – I think he had a good season, and should be better this year. And anyway, at the moment (as was the case at the end of last season) it looks like he’s second choice to Benayoun, who’s in terrific form.

Kingdom

The Rooster wrote: »

I see Dossena has been awarded a squad number: - 38

Assuming Skrtel and Agger arent badly injured, then I think buying another centre half would be a waste of money. Maybe next summer when Carra will be 32 and we'll have a better idea if Kelly really is as tidy as he looked in pre-season, we might need additional back-up. But with Skrtel and Agger both only 24, they should be our main pairing for years to come.

I wouldnt be concerned if we didnt buy any more this window.

I'm a newbie compared to the regs on here, but I think Carragher is on the slippery downward spiral I'm afraid. The end of the previous season he had a couple of poor games (no I can't provide specifics) while the season just gone I felt he'd a lot of games where he was just ok. He obviously has lots still to offer, and to teach - specifically someone like Shawcross who could pick up a fair bit from someone like Jamie. Who knows how the two Spanish kids will turn out, didn't think much of San Jose the last day, but I was impressed by how well Ayala bounced back after his blunder for Aguero's goal.

Defensively we're like this:

R/b:
Johnson
Degen
Kelly

C/B:
Carra
Skittles
Agger
Ayala/San Jose/Kelly

L/b:
Insua
Aurelio
Doss

Just looking at that, getting another English centre half with a seasons worth of PL experience, relatively cheaply, would be a good investment, particularily if we're looking long term.
Plus with Stoke, Pulis doesn't act the bollix, as seen by selling ofyojina (sp?) without any fuss.

whatawaster

The Rooster wrote: »

I see Dossena has been awarded a squad number: - 38

Assuming Skrtel and Agger arent badly injured, then I think buying another centre half would be a waste of money. Maybe next summer when Carra will be 32 and we'll have a better idea if Kelly really is as tidy as he looked in pre-season, we might need additional back-up. But with Skrtel and Agger both only 24, they should be our main pairing for years to come.

I wouldnt be concerned if we didnt buy any more this window.

I wouldn’t read too much into the Dossena squad number. We have a match in a week which he’ll be in the squad for. There are still 3 weeks to offload him. However, if these money problems are true then he would be decent cover for Insua when Aurelio is out and for Riera/Benny at other times. Babel could then be right wing cover where I much prefer him anyway.

On the CB thing – Agger has shown himself to be very injury prone over the last 2 years. Even if he’s fit for Saturday to me that’s no guarantee he won’t miss plenty of games this season. Which would leave us with 2 senior centre backs. A situation I don’t want to find us in.

PiE

spockety wrote: »

Sawboss

Best. Cartoon. Ever.

stevoslice

Mods, could we set up a fantasy football league just for Boards.ie - LFC Thread posters? should add to the friendly banter...

Whos up for it?

Dickerty

Sounds like a plan, we ARE the experts after all.

Though I feel bad about only having two pool players now...

Peyton Manning

thebhoy wrote: »

Mods, could we set up a fantasy football league just for Boards.ie - LFC Thread posters? should add to the friendly banter...

Whos up for it?

Dont think you need permission from Boards as far as I know, just a case of setting one up on the Premier League website and only sending the password to Liverpool fans.

Crash Bang Wall

sound like a good idea. I would suggest that if you set one up you can only PM the code as anyone could pick up the code by reading this

Eire-Dearg

Yep, I'm up for one too.