Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Not making it up, as i said the guy was like the puppetmaster on the pitch, everything went through him, which led to goals.
Alonso was the first player in the prem last season to have 1000 pin point passes.

Well everyone knows he’s a great passer of the ball. But that statistic is essentially meaningless.
Lucas had had 90-something percent pass completion ratio in one of the Man City games last season. Doesn’t really mean he created much.

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

Yeah, but he wanted to leave and we got an outstanding price for him, and have replaced him with 10m to spare. For all we know Aquilani could score twice as many goals as Alonso did.



Stop looking for sympathy, seriously. It’s not a pack mentality, nobody is ganging up on you. it’s just that very few people agree with what you’re saying.

I was referring to the 'we're trying to make you disappear' comment.
Anyone that doesnt agree Alonso wasnt one of our best players wasnt watching Liverpool last season.
I was replying to Bastard Prince who tried to play down how valuable an asset Alonso was, SO BITE ME

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

Well everyone knows he’s a great passer of the ball. But that statistic is essentially meaningless.
Lucas had had 90-something percent pass completion ratio in one of the Man City games last season. Doesn’t really mean he created much.

Well when does Lucas ever create much, hence the reason why Real werent after him all summer.
Oh but if you lot are right next season they'll be hunting him down for 70million :pac::pac:

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I was referring to the 'we're trying to make you disappear' comment.
Anyone that doesnt agree Alonso wasnt one of our best players wasnt watching Liverpool last season.
I was replying to Bastard Prince who tried to play down how valuable an asset Alonso was, SO BITE ME

Nobody is downplaying how important Alonso was to us. But he wanted to leave, has left so we all have to move on. The point other people are trying to make is that there are creative players left in the squad – Benayoun, Riera, Kuyt and Gerrard all look more likely to create a goal than Xabi did.
For all his wonderful contributions to the team that was Xabi’s biggest failing – he didn’t score or assist as often as he should have. I’m not having a go at him here by the way.

zing

Gerrard has withdrawn from the England squad and returned to Liverpool. Seems the same groin trouble thats affected him over the last few of seasons. Hopefully it's just a precaution.

Fink Goddie

Headshot wrote: »

Link?

http://www.myanfield.net/2008/12/mean-lean-stubble-machine-is-pass.html

http://www.gfdb.com/Player.3584.Xabi-Alonso-Olano.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xabi_Alonso

Now there's your links!
if you were listening to coverage of the games last season you wouldnt have needed a link because you would have heard the commentators saying it again and again like i did.

zing

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Oh but if you lot are right next season they'll be hunting him down for 70million :pac::pac:

And wouldn't it be great if they were ..

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Well when does Lucas ever create much, hence the reason why Real werent after him all summer.
Oh but if you lot are right next season they'll be hunting him down for 70million :pac::pac:

well Lucas to be fair to him - and i know you believe in fairness - scored 3 goals and made 4 assists in 20 starts (19 off bench)

Xabi Alonso scored 4 goals and made 5 assists in 38 starts (7 off bench)

So not wildly different stats there. Of course they don't tell the whole story - Alonso is a far better player than Lucas. But credit where credit's due, eh?

~Rebel~

Fink Goddie wrote: »

[URL]
Now there's your links!
if you were listening to coverage of the games last season you wouldnt have needed a link because you would have heard the commentators saying it again and again like i did. [/url]

to be fair he's a united fan, not much reason he'd have been watching all the games

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

Nobody is downplaying how important Alonso was to us. But he wanted to leave, has left so we all have to move on. The point other people are trying to make is that there are creative players left in the squad – Benayoun, Riera, Kuyt and Gerrard all look more likely to create a goal than Xabi did.
For all his wonderful contributions to the team that was Xabi’s biggest failing – he didn’t score or assist as often as he should have. I’m not having a go at him here by the way.

Why jump on me then when i said that to Bastard Prince by putting up a statistic????
See YOU'RE arguing with me for the sake of arguing!!!

Fink Goddie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

to be fair he's a united fan, not much reason he'd have been watching all the games

I watch 90% of uniteds games and i'm not a fan.

mayordenis

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I watch 90% of uniteds games and i'm not a fan.

congrats

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

well Lucas to be fair to him - and i know you believe in fairness - scored 3 goals and made 4 assists in 20 starts (19 off bench)

Xabi Alonso scored 4 goals and made 5 assists in 38 starts (7 off bench)

So not wildly different stats there. Of course they don't tell the whole story - Alonso is a far better player than Lucas. But credit where credit's due, eh?

Just remember that.

Its not all about scoring goals either, its about the contribution to the game.

Fink Goddie

mayordenis wrote: »

congrats

Thanks love xxx

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Why jump on me then when i said that to Bastard Prince by putting up a statistic????
See YOU'RE arguing with me for the sake of arguing!!!

Not jumping on you. It's not the first time you've complained about "a pack mentality" or people ganging up on you - when in reality it's just that you've a different opinion to the majority of Pool fans here. So there's obviously going to be debate/argument. I'm arguing with you because i disagree with you

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Just remember that.

Its not all about scoring goals either, its about the contribution to the game.

Of course it is. I've faith that Lucas will improve his all-round play. He was probably our most consistent and impressive performer in pre-season, i'm sure you'll agree.
If he can keep improving in general play and offer more of a goal threat than Alonso then he can become a very good player.

spockety

I feel another quantity not quality day coming on on this thread.

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

Not jumping on you. It's not the first time you've complained about "a pack mentality" or people ganging up on you - when in reality it's just that you've a different opinion to the majority of Pool fans here. So there's obviously going to be debate/argument. I'm arguing with you because i disagree with you

Well we both agree how important Alonso was so why the big debate there??
What opinion is different???
Its funny because you've been jumping on everything i say yet we both agree about Alonso so it just proves your arguing for the sake of it!!!
I wasnt even responding to you in the first place, i was responding to BastardPrince.

And what i said about the pack mentality is, ive been told what i said was a load of rubbish, [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL], that i know nothing, the make me disappear comment etc, 4 or 5 people jumping on everything i say.
I'm not complaining, bring it on!!! Just shows you people cant debate without getting personal.

I'm just stating whats happening, others agreed with me yesterday about that.

noodler

If one more person goes on about Lucas and pre-season.

We also had a lot of poor results in our pre-season, can we infer as much from that?

whatawaster

noodler wrote: »

We also had a lot of poor results in our pre-season, can we infer as much from that?

Yeah. Our defence looks dodgy as hell at the moment and we need it to be fixed by Sunday.

lint316

I see the pack have found their newest victim in Fink. This thread should be reported for bullying

Fink Goddie

spockety wrote: »

I feel another quantity not quality day coming on on this thread.

Then instead of b1tchin about it go elsewhere or start another conversation

Dublin_Gunner

lint316 wrote: »

I see the pack have found their newest victim in Fink. This thread should be reported for bullying

You say that like this is a recent revelation?

Fink has been stirring for quite some time. Not everything Fink says is wrong, but sometimes I think Fink says things just to shake the branch.

jesus_thats_gre

noodler wrote: »

If one more person goes on about Lucas and pre-season.

We also had a lot of poor results in our pre-season, can we infer as much from that?

I am personally a little worried if I am honest.

flahavaj

Its gas the 360 degree turns by both United and Liverpool fans on here over the Summer. Suddenly, when their teams have little or no other options, Nani and Lucas are sudddenly defended to the hilt.

I love this board.:pac:

whatawaster

flahavaj wrote: »

Its gas the 360 degree turns by both United and Liverpool fans on here over the Summer. Suddenly, when their teams have little or no other options, Nani and Lucas are sudddenly defended to the hilt.

I love this board.:pac:

I think you’ll find many people always defended Lucas here

Fink Goddie

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

You say that like this is a recent revelation?

Fink has been stirring for quite some time. Not everything Fink says is wrong, but sometimes I think Fink says things just to shake the branch.

Dont want to shake anyones branch in here thanks

Give me an example of where i'm stirring??
I think Lucas is not good enough for Liverpool, most of the Liverpool and football fans around the world would agree with that one, its nothing new.

I think Alonso is a big loss, where is the stirring??

Dublin_Gunner

flahavaj wrote: »

Its gas the 360 degree turns by both United and Liverpool fans on here over the Summer. Suddenly, when their teams have little or no other options, Nani and Lucas are sudddenly defended to the hilt.

I love this board.:pac:

I think on this thread, you'll find there are a few of us that don't defend Lucas - me for one.

I do think he looks like he's getting a bit stronger, and growing in confidence - but rely on him as a starting 11 CM I would not.

Fink Goddie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am personally a little worried if I am honest.

Me too, but hopefully everything will come together on Sunday. Injuries will clear up etc.
2-0 to the pool!

noodler

whatawaster wrote: »

Yeah. Our defence looks dodgy as hell at the moment and we need it to be fixed by Sunday.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am personally a little worried if I am honest.

I would love to see a breakdown of friendly results pre season and opening games. I would dare say the correlation is not very strong at all.

Lucas isn't world class becasue he was among the best of a bad bunch in preseason and similarly we won't struggle (struggle is scraping top4 IMO) this season based on our preseason.

whatawaster

Even those of us who like and defend Lucas usually agree he’s not ready to be a starting CM for Liverpool.
He wasn’t last season, and once Aquilani is fit I don’t think Rafa plans for him to be this season. Unless he proves himself big time in the next month or so

noodler

Pre-season

Pre-season

Pre-season!

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Even those of us who like and defend Lucas usually agree he’s not ready to be a starting CM for Liverpool.
He wasn’t last season, and once Aquilani is fit I don’t think Rafa plans for him to be this season. Unless he proves himself big time in the next month or so

Lucas played a hell of alot of football last season, I'd be convinced Rafa sees him as playing at least the same if not more this season.

Better just get used to it TBH.

jesus_thats_gre

I am thinking that you might see Gerrard playing where used to and Lucas playing behind Torres:

---

Gerrard

---

Masch

---

---

Kuyt

---

Lucas

---

Benny

---

---

Torres

---

I think you could see the above quite a bit until Aquilani is fit and up to speed.

dardoz

Guys as an avid reader of this thread down the years I really feel the need to voice my opinion on the downward spiral it has embarkened upon primarily since the beginning of the summer.

People are waaaay too sensitive about negative remarks about Liverpool here.

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, it doesn't mean they are looking for an arguement. Indeed it can be annoying when people regurgitate a topic which has been done to death but in a lot of instances, that is the fault of the "super" thread. It becomes so long that you cannot expect everyone to thrawl back through hundreds of pages to see if the point they wish to make has already been discusseed.

Now that being said, there are always going to be trollers, but for those of you who do not have kids or any experience with them... IGNORE them and they will soon become bored and leave.

What we all have to remember is the name of the thread. It is NOT a Liverpool supported thread as much as I wish it was.

Am I the only one who would like a thread that was solely for Liverpool supporters? (Sorry PHB) Not because I want to view everything with rose tinted glasses, but because I don't actually care what a UTD or a Chelsea fan or whoever else thinks about my team. I just want a place where I can keep up to date on any Liverpool FC related news, have a bit of banter like it used to be and discuss things like adults ie. Not overreact to every little comment, and I am saying that to both sides.

If I were to start a Liverpool supporters thread, would there be an interest in it?

noodler

Bound to play more if Aquilani is injured more, Masch will also be suspended at some stage whilst they may well rest Gerrard on occassion and try Lucas in that role.

Plenty of opportunities await the guy - no doubt.

Dublin_Gunner

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Dont want to shake anyones branch in here thanks

Give me an example of where i'm stirring??
I think Lucas is not good enough for Liverpool, most of the Liverpool and football fans around the world would agree with that one, its nothing new.

I think Alonso is a big loss, where is the stirring??

A post like the one I've just quoted for one!! But seriously, I'm not going trawling through pages upon pages to pull out your stirring comments.

I personally don't think Alonso is as big a loss as some make out - but I certainly don't think Lucas is the answer! In fact, I couldn't stand looking at him play for the majority of last season.

noodler

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am thinking that you might see Gerrard playing where used to and Lucas playing behind Torres:

---

Gerrard

---

Masch

---

---

Kuyt

---

Lucas

---

Benny

---

---

Torres

---

I think you could see the above quite a bit until Aquilani is fit and up to speed.

I hope not. Surely all the evidence in the past season or two points to Lucas in CM and Gerrard retaining his forward role?

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

Lucas played a hell of alot of football last season, I'd be convinced Rafa sees him as playing at least if not more this season.

Better just get used to it TBH.

Exactly. Think it is just time to accept that Lucas and Voronin are going to be in the fold and hope they raise their game a bit. If they prove to be ****, ye can all rub it in our face about how right you were in 6 months time.

jesus_thats_gre

noodler wrote: »

I hope not. Surely all the evidence in the past season or two points to Lucas in CM and Gerrard retaining his forward role?

Lucas was the furthest man forward for large chunks of the Athletico match and it worked out surprisingly well. I think that Lucas is more equipped to play in that sort of position and Gerrard's athleticism means that he play in position and do a top class job.

flahavaj

dardoz wrote: »

Guys as an avid reader of this thread down the years I really feel the need to voice my opinion on the downward spiral it has embarkened upon primarily since the beginning of the summer.

People are waaaay too sensitive about negative remarks about Liverpool here.

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, it doesn't mean they are looking for an arguement. Indeed it can be annoying when people regurgitate a topic which has been done to death but in a lot of instances, that is the fault of the "super" thread. It becomes so long that you cannot expect everyone to thrawl back through hundreds of pages to see if the point they wish to make has already been discusseed.

Now that being said, there are always going to be trollers, but for those of you who do not have kids or any experience with them... IGNORE them and they will soon become bored and leave.

What we all have to remember is the name of the thread. It is NOT a Liverpool supported thread as much as I wish it was.

Am I the only one who would like a thread that was solely for Liverpool supporters? (Sorry PHB) Not because I want to view everything with rose tinted glasses, but because I don't actually care what a UTD or a Chelsea fan or whoever else thinks about my team. I just want a place where I can keep up to date on any Liverpool FC related news, have a bit of banter like it used to be and discuss things like adults ie. Not overreact to every little comment, and I am saying that to both sides.

If I were to start a Liverpool supporters thread, would there be an interest in it?

First four paragraphs contradict the last 3. You start by saying not to be oversensitive about fans of other teams coming in and commenting in the Liverpool thread, then in the next breath ask for a "Liverpool-only" thread.:rolleyes:

Besides the obvious contradiction, how in the name of God would you decide whos allowed post in it? Send in a photo of your Liverpool duvet if you're new to the forum?:pac:

The Recliner

dardoz wrote: »

Guys as an avid reader of this thread down the years I really feel the need to voice my opinion on the downward spiral it has embarkened upon primarily since the beginning of the summer.

People are waaaay too sensitive about negative remarks about Liverpool here.

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, it doesn't mean they are looking for an arguement. Indeed it can be annoying when people regurgitate a topic which has been done to death but in a lot of instances, that is the fault of the "super" thread. It becomes so long that you cannot expect everyone to thrawl back through hundreds of pages to see if the point they wish to make has already been discusseed.

Now that being said, there are always going to be trollers, but for those of you who do not have kids or any experience with them... IGNORE them and they will soon become bored and leave.

What we all have to remember is the name of the thread. It is NOT a Liverpool supported thread as much as I wish it was.

Am I the only one who would like a thread that was solely for Liverpool supporters? (Sorry PHB) Not because I want to view everything with rose tinted glasses, but because I don't actually care what a UTD or a Chelsea fan or whoever else thinks about my team. I just want a place where I can keep up to date on any Liverpool FC related news, have a bit of banter like it used to be and discuss things like adults ie. Not overreact to every little comment, and I am saying that to both sides.

If I were to start a Liverpool supporters thread, would there be an interest in it?

It isn't non Liverpool supporters that are the problem most of the time

People are too touchy about criticism and differing opinions, you don't have to convert everyone to your point of view

Sometimes people will disagree with you and it is ok to leave them alone and not convince them that they are wrong, sometimes it is enough to know you are right

Fink Goddie

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

A post like the one I've just quoted for one!! But seriously, I'm not going trawling through pages upon pages to pull out your stirring comments.

I personally don't think Alonso is as big a loss as some make out - but I certainly don't think Lucas is the answer! In fact, I couldn't stand looking at him play for the majority of last season.

Do you know the difference between a joke and stirring!

noodler

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Lucas was the furthest man forward for large chunks of the Athletico match and it worked out surprisingly well. I think that Lucas is more equipped to play in that sort of position and Gerrard's athleticism means that he play in position and do a top class job.

Whenever we have been missing Masch or Alonso over the last two years it was Lucas who filled in in Central Midfield. I don't go along with the new modern theory that Gerrard CAN'T play CM but I certainly think I would rather Lucas put in a shift there rather than take away from our most potent attacking options.

Anyway, I rekcon pre-season was just a try-out for those ocassions when Gerrard is not fit or is being rested rather than fit and being dropped to CM.

flahavaj

Pimpey wrote: »

It isn't non Liverpool supporters that are the problem most of the time

People are too touchy about criticism and differing opinions, you don't have to convert everyone to your point of view

Sometimes people will disagree with you and it is ok to leave them alone and not convince them that they are wrong, sometimes it is enough to know you are right

Nail on the head. Some people (not just Liverpool fans, this goes for all teams on here) seem to think its a political party they support, not a football team and feel they must make people who have diametrically opposing views to their own see that they are somehow "right" in choosing the team to support that they did when they were a toddler. Its laughable really.

Dublin_Gunner

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Do you know the difference between a joke and stirring!

Do you know the difference between an exclamation mark and a question mark?

Fink Goddie

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Do you know the difference between an exclamation mark and a question mark?

Do you know the difference between a rhetorical question and a normal question? Thats a question incase you dont know.

Eire-Dearg

Gerrard out - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12010_5484423,00.html

MementoMori

noodler wrote: »

I hope not. Surely all the evidence in the past season or two points to Lucas in CM and Gerrard retaining his forward role?

I was actually thinking about this - mainly on the back of Lucas's goal at the weekend.
EDIT: and the fact that as jesus said he was playing in a more advanced position for large chunks of the game.

I would imagine that a lot of teams playing Liverpool might deploy a defensive CM whose primary job is to track Gerrard and try and man-mark him. These teams would be expecting Gerrard to play the centre role of the 3 in 4-2-3-1.
The DM assigned to mark Gerrard would be expecting to be playing a role in front of the CBs offering protection for them and picking up Gerrard.

In games like this it might be an idea to have some sort of plan for this. If Lucas and Gerrard switch position, even for short periods of time it could well mean that a vast amount of space could open up where the defence expect the DM covering Gerrard is meant to be. It would also create doubt and uncertainty in the DMs mind - should he track Gerrard when he drops deep picking up the ball from the CBs and risk leaving an amout of space free or should he stay where he is and take the risk that if Gerrard makes a surging run from deep the DM will be able to stop him?

It's a possibility no?

Overall though I would be surprised if Lucas was consistently played ahead of Gerrard here but I would not be one bit surprised to see them switching places on a regular basis. This would also work for Aquilani as well given his fierce shot when he returns. Another option in terms of swapping Gerrard's position might be to switch him with one of the wing players in the front 3 at times but I feel this would be less effective in terms of taking the DM deep and away from his position.

Fink Goddie

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Gerrard out - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12010_5484423,00.html

Ah he'll be ok for Sunday hopefully.

Its always the same injury for Gerrard.