Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Dickerty

And speaking of Spearing, I was disappointed to hear Rafa use Plessis' name as a CM option after selling Alonso, surely Spearing is ahead of him in the pecking order?

Karmafaerie

Pimpey wrote: »

I agree but what I took from it is that whilst we have a strong first 11 our back up and squad players remain inferior to our rivals

This is the same situation we found ourselves in last year and I find that quiet depressing whilst knowing that this isn't an easy problem to rectify

The optimist in me looks at last year and sees that we came close and given that our rivals are slightly weaker or much the same should mean a good attempt this year but the pessimist in me sees this as a bit of an opportunity lost

I know, but to be honest, i don't really agree.

If you take UTD for instance.
Our first teams are pretty even,
As for our back-ups.

GK
Kuscheck vs Carvalhio

FB
The twins vs Dossena and Degen

CB
O'Shea and Evans vs Agger and Ayalla (with another player most likely coming in.)

CM
Anderson and Scholes vs Lucas and Plesiss (Again a chance of a better replacement coming)

WF
Nani and Park vs Babel and Yossi

SK
Owen and Macheda vs Voronin and Ngog




I'm sorry but again, very similar.

mike65

If the entire presumed first 11 was struck down right now (with current injuries)

---

Cav
Kelly----San Jose--Agger--Dossena

---

Plessis-Spearing
El Zhar

---

Yossi

---

Babel

---

N'Gog

yes I'm hoping Agger would be fit (presuming Carra/Skrtel the first choice CBs)

Fink Goddie

Have to agree with these points in the article, all things ive said before.

Beyond a core of 15 players is a group that would struggle to avoid relegation

Babel or Kuyt? Goal-shy and second-rate in comparison. David Ngog? Totally unproven. Andriy Voronin? Shush before you embarrass yourself further.

But shouldn't he have made buying Keane's replacement his first stop in the transfer market?

whatawaster

Dickerty wrote: »

And speaking of Spearing, I was disappointed to hear Rafa use Plessis' name as a CM option after selling Alonso, surely Spearing is ahead of him in the pecking order?

I’m not surprised at all. Plessis had a bad year last season but he has more to his game than Spearing. He’s stronger, a better tackler and a pretty good passer.

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I know, but to be honest, i don't really agree.

If you take UTD for instance.
Our first teams are pretty even,
As for our back-ups.

GK
Kuscheck Foster vs Carvalhio

FB
The twins vs Dossena and Degen

CB
O'Shea and Evans vs Agger and Ayalla (with another player most likely coming in.)

CM
Anderson and Scholes vs Lucas and Plesiss (Again a chance of a better replacement coming)

WF
Nani and Park vs Babel and Yossi

SK
Owen and Macheda vs Voronin and Ngog

utd edge it imo

and you say a chance of another player coming in,i wouldnt put my hopes up with rafa's recent interview if anything to go by

jesus_thats_gre

Yup, United's backup is slightly better alright.

flahavaj

mike65 wrote: »

If the entire presumed first 11 was struck down right now (with current injuries)

---

Cav
Kelly----San Jose--Agger--Dossena

---

Plessis-Spearing
El Zhar

---

Yossi

---

Babel

---

N'Gog

yes I'm hoping Agger would be fit (presuming Carra/Skrtel the first choice CBs)

Where would that team finish in the Prem I wonder? I'd say they'd survive by default owing to the poverty of some of the other teams down there but they'd be bottom 6 anyway.

Karmafaerie

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Hope you're right but sadly i think i will be.

Only time will tell I suppose.

mike65

Whats that side would most lack is physical balls, its kinda lightweight. Nippy but you could imagine Bolton. Stoke, Blackburn bruisers making hay.

Fink Goddie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, United's backup is slightly better alright.

What ive been saying all along

Karmafaerie

Headshot wrote: »

utd edge it imo

and you say a chance of another player coming in,i wouldnt put my hopes up with rafa's recent interview if anything to go by

I had Foster as first choice with VDS out.
Unless you're sayins Kuscheck is first choice.


As for the new aquisitions, we'll have to wait and see again I suppose.

The Recliner

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I know, but to be honest, i don't really agree.

If you take UTD for instance.
Our first teams are pretty even,
As for our back-ups.

GK
Kuscheck vs Carvalhio

FB
The twins vs Dossena and Degen

CB
O'Shea and Evans vs Agger and Ayalla (with another player most likely coming in.)

CM
Anderson and Scholes vs Lucas and Plesiss (Again a chance of a better replacement coming)

WF
Nani and Park vs Babel and Yossi

SK
Owen and Macheda vs Voronin and Ngog

I'm sorry but again, very similar.

I think where Utd's back up wins out is in experience

Agger and Yossi are quality but the rest are either unproven in the premiership or unfulfilled potential so far (yes I am looking at you Babel)

Now hopefully when given the chance our lads perform to their ability and we will be in with a good chance but I am doubting that they will perform to be honest

Hopefull any new signings will make that picture look stronger

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, United's backup is slightly better alright.

i have to say Yossi is a brilliant squad player

it's looking like Gerrard might miss the first PL match so yossi will take his place
the minute i know that's happening ill be putting money on yossi to score

jesus_thats_gre

Fink Goddie wrote: »

What ive been saying all along

Thankfully, I think our first team is slightly better...

MementoMori

mike65 wrote: »

Whats that side would most lack is physical balls, its kinda lightweight. Nippy but you could imagine Bolton. Stoke, Blackburn bruisers making hay.

Probably a fair-bit of the light-weightedness/bully-ability down to the youth of some of those players. Even in saying that N'gog has bulked up a fair bit in the year since he arrived. Don't think there's any chance for Yossi or Spearing (although Spearing is more short than anything, not especially light-weight.)

Dossena and Agger are fairly strong and Kelly looks like he is or shortly will be.
Plessis is no shrinking violet.
Would be concerned about a lack pf physicality in the three - I'd probably stick Voronin in there.

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I had Foster as first choice with VDS out.
Unless you're sayins Kuscheck is first choice.


As for the new aquisitions, we'll have to wait and see again I suppose.

the pig shouldnt be near the team

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Thankfully, I think our first team is slightly better...

go on.............

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Thankfully, I think our first team is slightly better...

Yeah if you ignore the fact that, United have the better attack, midfield and defense.

MementoMori

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I know, but to be honest, i don't really agree.

If you take UTD for instance.
Our first teams are pretty even,
As for our back-ups.

GK
Kuscheck vs Carvalhio

FB
The twins vs Dossena and Degen

CB
O'Shea and Evans vs Agger and Ayalla (with another player most likely coming in.)

CM
Anderson and Scholes vs Lucas and Plesiss (Again a chance of a better replacement coming)

WF
Nani and Park vs Babel and Yossi

SK
Owen and Macheda vs Voronin and Ngog




I'm sorry but again, very similar.

Would Nani not be in the first eleven? In terms of wide players in the 2nd eleven would it not be one of Toksic/Obertan to go with Park?

Ayala is definately not 4th choice CB - Kelly and San Jose are ahead of him in the pecking order. Rafa said he was only taken to Switzerland because of Agger's back injury. Also it's debatable which of Spearing or Plessis is currently in the 4th/5th spot in terms of CM.

Also Liverpool's second choice keeper is Cavalieri

whatawaster

I’d tend to agree our first team is ever so slightly better than United’s. Particularly in attack, and I never thought I’d be saying that.

Reina v VDS – Reina
Johnson v Brown - I’ll give you Brown, but I think Johnson could change that this season
Evra v Insua - Evra
Carragher v Ferdinand - Ferdinand, but Carra is still quality
Skrtel v Vidic - Vidic, but Skrtel is quality

Mascherano v Fletcher - Mascherano
Aquilani v Carrick - I have no idea, but I’m hoping Aquilani!

Kuyt v Valencia - Kuyt
Riera/Benny v Nani/Tosic – Riera/Benny

Gerrard v Rooney - Gerrard

Torres v Berbatov - Torres

I’ve assumed certain players will start for United, so am open to correction. I think most are reasonable judgements.
United are stronger in defense.
Midfield will depend on how Aquilani does, but Masch gives us a real edge in there.
Liverpool are stronger in attack imo
Which will do better this season? I’ve no idea.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah if you ignore the fact that, United have the better attack, midfield and defense.

Boggles, not even Fergie thinks that in private.

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

go on.............

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah if you ignore the fact that, United have the better attack, midfield and defense.

Bah, forgot that Alonso left. If Aquilani offers 90% of what Alonso offered though, I still believe that we would pip it.

As things stand, if you were to merge both team, I think you would end up with the following:

4-2-3-1:

---

Reina

---

Johnson

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Masch

---

Carrick

---

---

Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Rooney

---

---

Torres

---

Alonso would have been in Carrick's place. I moved Rooney out there just to force him into the team.

4-4-2:

---

Reina

---

Johnson

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Masch

---

Gerrard

---

Kuyt

---

Benny

---

Torres

---

Rooney

---

Benny on the right wing would be a toss up. Park is the only United player that I would consider for the left wing but I think Benny offers more goals and assists.

So, overall I think that Liverpool have a slightly better choice of players in their first team.

Overall, I think that both team are about even. I think that Chelsea are the strongest.

Karmafaerie

MementoMori wrote: »

Also Liverpool's second choice keeper is Cavalieri

How did I even manage to do that!!!:o:D

deadhead13

A good Oliver Kay article...

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/08/fans-onesided-in-benitez-debate.html

Kingdom

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Odd, I was thinking that the backup squad listed was strong enough..

Me too. Rather strong actually, given it could be Kelly at right back , not degen.

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Bah, forgot that Alonso left. If Aquilani offers 90% of what Alonso offered though, I still believe that we would pip it.

As things stand, if you were to merge both team, I think you would end up with the following:

4-2-3-1:

---

Reina

---

Johnson

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Masch

---

Carrick

---

---

Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Rooney

---

---

Torres

---

Alonso would have been in Carrick's place. I moved Rooney out there just to force him into the team.

4-4-2:

---

Reina

---

Johnson

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Masch

---

Gerrard

---

Kuyt

---

Benny

---

Torres

---

Rooney

---

Benny on the right wing would be a toss up. Park is the only United player that I would consider for the left wing but I think Benny offers more goals and assists.

So, overall I think that Liverpool have a slightly better choice of players in their first team.

Overall, I think that both team are about even. I think that Chelsea are the strongest.

Gerrard no where near as good as Carrick centrally.

Also Capello won't touch Rooney through the centre so like the Italian move féckíng Gerrard out left.

Johnson no way near proved he is at the level of Brown.

Considering that team would batter 95% of the league, a limited player like Masch would not be needed, Fletcher or even Lucas would be the far better option.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard no where near as good as Carrick centrally.

Also Capello won't touch Rooney through the centre so like the Italian move féckíng Gerrard out left.

Johnson no way near proved he is at the level of Brown.

Considering that team would batter 95% of the league, a limited player like Masch would not be needed, Fletcher or even Lucas would be the far better option.

Gerrard was one of the best central midfielders in England for years, one who Alex Ferguson himself said would be a good replacement for Keane.
His natural game doesn’t fit the way Rafa likes his midfielders to sit deep - that’s all.
He’s in a different class altogether to Carrick, whatever position he’s playing.

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard no where near as good as Carrick centrally.

Also Capello won't touch Rooney through the centre so like the Italian move féckíng Gerrard out left.

Johnson no way near proved he is at the level of Brown.

Considering that team would batter 95% of the league, a limited player like Masch would not be needed, Fletcher or even Lucas would be the far better option.

Anyway Boggles, the fact that we are splitting hairs sums up how close both teams actually are. I stand by my assertion that United's squad is better overall and Liverpool's starting 11 is the better of the two though.

Eire-Dearg

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard no where near as good as Carrick centrally.

Gerrard is so good, he's a better 'keeper than Foster. :pac:

jesus_thats_gre

whatawaster wrote: »

Gerrard was one of the best central midfielders in England for years, one who Alex Ferguson himself said would be a good replacement for Keane.
His natural game doesn’t fit the way Rafa likes his midfielders to sit deep - that’s all.
He’s in a different class altogether to Carrick, whatever position he’s playing.

They shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence to be honest.

I would nearly go as far as saying that Carrick is the weakest player in the United starting 11.

flahavaj

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Anyway Boggles, the fact that we are splitting hairs sums up how close both teams actually are. I stand by my assertion that United's squad is better overall and Liverpool's starting 11 is the better of the two though.

I think the jesus is right.

Fink Goddie

flahavaj wrote: »

I think the jesus is right.

:pac:

Karmafaerie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence to be honest.

I would nearly go as far as saying that Carrick is the weakest player in the United starting 11.

Foster's bellow him.

Sir Gallagher

flahavaj wrote: »

I think the jesus is right.

Nobody fcuks with the Jesus!

flahavaj

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Nobody fcuks with the Jesus!

This is exactly the guy I think of whenever the jesus posts.:pac:

Pimpey

Pimpey wrote: »

This makes interesting reading

Some of the truth in it is uncomfortable

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_5484633,00.html

*edit*
Can someone PM me the code for the Fantasy Football, will do up a team this evening

I really think there is a lot of rubbish in that article. It talks about not replacing Keane. The midfield and strike force starting this season for liverpool is the same one which scored the most goals in the league last season(bar Alonso who didnt score many) which makes the articles suggestion that scoring goals being Liverpool's problem look ridiculous.

Also after all the giving out about rotation at Liverpool the article is suggesting that the team is too settled, that has to be a joke.

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard no where near as good as Carrick centrally.

The most ridiculous post I have read on boards in a long long time.

spockety

I genuinely think there might be merit in a "Squad Comparison" sticky. This comes up so often, and it's not a debate anyone can win.

You know, every couple of months, someone kicks it off, and before you know it you have 20 lists posted up like "Reina Vs VDS - Reina", "Gerrard Vs Scholes - Scholes", etc.

United fans say United 'edge' it, Liverpool fans say Liverpool 'edge it', someone then chucks Chelsea into the mix etc.

The only time it's really relevant is when those teams play each other, and the result on the day determines who has the better starting 11 on that day.

flahavaj

spockety wrote: »

I genuinely think there might be merit in a "Squad Comparison" sticky. This comes up so often, and it's not a debate anyone can win.

You know, every couple of months, someone kicks it off, and before you know it you have 20 lists posted up like "Reina Vs VDS - Reina", "Gerrard Vs Scholes - Scholes", etc.

United fans say United 'edge' it, Liverpool fans say Liverpool 'edge it', someone then chucks Chelsea into the mix etc.

The only time it's really relevant is when those teams play each other, and the result on the day determines who has the better starting 11 on that day.

Don't forget City now as well.:pac:

Headshot

So who has the better squad?

herbieflowers

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence to be honest.

I would nearly go as far as saying that Carrick is the weakest player in the United starting 11.

Complete tosh. Carrick has won more league titles than Gerrard, a World Club Cup and two Community Shields.

:pac:

Karmafaerie

*groan*

I'm out.





P.S: By the way, I'm _SuperCool_ in the FF.

Leixlip_Red

spockety wrote: »

I genuinely think there might be merit in a "Squad Comparison" sticky. This comes up so often, and it's not a debate anyone can win.

You know, every couple of months, someone kicks it off, and before you know it you have 20 lists posted up like "Reina Vs VDS - Reina", "Gerrard Vs Scholes - Scholes", etc.

United fans say United 'edge' it, Liverpool fans say Liverpool 'edge it', someone then chucks Chelsea into the mix etc.

The only time it's really relevant is when those teams play each other, and the result on the day determines who has the better starting 11 on that day.

+1

Just by going on last years head-to-heads you can say Liverpool just edge it, But that could all change this year as we don't have someone that can control the tempo like Alonso did for us last year.

p.s. can someone pm me the code for the FF.

NabyLadistheman

Yes it would be great if someone could pm me the FF code also

~Rebel~

In FF I'm "Fritzel's Kids"

NabyLadistheman

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In FF I'm "Fritzel's Kids"

I hope that's FF doesn't stand for Fritzel Fantasy!

stevoslice

herbieflowers wrote: »

Complete tosh. Carrick has won more league titles than Gerrard, a World Club Cup and two Community Shields.

:pac:

Djimi Traore has a Champions League Winners medal...
Nuff Said

K-9

A little more upbeat opinion, Kuyt:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0811/kuytd_liverpool.html


Dirk Kuyt believes Liverpool are about to embark on a historic season.
And the Dutch forward is aware that with Javier Mascherano seemingly about to commit his future to the club, the Reds now have a stable squad with the vast majority on long-term deals.
The departure of Xabi Alonso has been countered by the arrival of Italy midfielder Alberto Aquilani and boss Rafael Benitez now knows there will be no more players leaving Anfield.

And Kuyt, speaking in a Liverpool FC magazine interview, said: 'Throughout my career I have always had another dream and have achieved it. I will not stop dreaming until we get what we want with Liverpool, and that is the title.
'This team can be proud of itself and the way we played last season. We can hold our heads high.
'Last season we beat the biggest teams, Manchester United and Chelsea, twice each in the league.
'We can say that there were too many draws in the home games, but you have to learn from it because we are a young team.
'We have a sense now, a really strong belief, that we can go on and achieve what we want because the quality is there and the progress is there.'
Kuyt underlined his commitment to the Reds' cause by agreeing a two-year extension to his Anfield deal earlier this year.
By doing so, he joined the likes of Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun, Daniel Agger, Nabil El Zhar, Jay Spearing and Stephen Darby in committing his future to the club.
He said: 'The team is getting more experience, and importantly, the players are now in it for the long term.
'Important players have agreed new contracts and they all believe they are part of something big. The belief is there.
'Liverpool is a famous club, one of the biggest in the world, and to be part of it with such a great history is something you want to be around as long as possible.
'Every year I am here I am proud. Every year you have to fight for your place and every year there are better and better players coming here to take your place, so I am proud to still be here and to have a new contract.'

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Gerrard was one of the best central midfielders in England for years,

He was never the best central midfielder at Liverpool let alone England. He always played his best football out right or in a more attacking central role.

whatawaster wrote: »

one who Alex Ferguson himself said would be a good replacement for Keane.

That was 6 years ago when rumours were Ferguson was going to make a move for him when he looked like he was off to Chelsea.

whatawaster wrote: »

He’s in a different class altogether to Carrick, whatever position he’s playing.

Gerrard too often hides or goes missing in games, a central midfielder at a top club can't be afforded such a luxury.

Capello and Rafa tend to agree with me, if he were a top central midfielder, I think alot of Liverpools problems would be solved.

Not having a go at Gerrard, he is fantastic behind a front 1/2 or coming in from the right. He does not have the discipline to play centrally though.

griffdaddy

Can i get the FF code? I'm sporting rimjob

DrumSteve

Im funkyzeit! thats my team name.