Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

stevoslice

Boggles wrote: »

That was 6 years ago when rumours were Ferguson was going to make a move for him when he looked like he was off to Chelsea.

that was 4 years ago, and he still said it...

The Rooster

whatawaster wrote: »

I’m not surprised at all. Plessis had a bad year last season but he has more to his game than Spearing. He’s stronger, a better tackler and a pretty good passer.

I've seen the two play for the reserves 10 or 12 times, and never once has Plessis outplayed Spearing.

Plessis is of course bigger and stronger but Spearing is the better passer and has the better shot. Spearing makes things happen, he creates things, Plessis does not. Plessis keeps it simple (gives the ball to Spearing!), but therefore makes less mistakes. Spearing's not afraid of a tackle either. Both very different players of course, and to be honest I was hoping both would do better in pre-season than they did.

PiE

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard too often hides or goes missing in games, a central midfielder at a top club can't be afforded such a luxury.

Hold on, you're saying that Gerrard can't be a midfielder at a top club because he'll go missing, while talking about Carrick? Carrick's the ultimate sunny-day player. On the increasingly rare occassion that Gerrard does go missing from a game, he's still likely to pop up with a goal - Carrick relied on Ronaldo for his get-outta-jail cards.

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

He was never the best central midfielder at Liverpool let alone England. He always played his best football out right or in a more attacking central role.

That was 6 years ago when rumours were Ferguson was going to make a move for him when he looked like he was off to Chelsea.

Gerrard too often hides or goes missing in games, a central midfielder at a top club can't be afforded such a luxury.

Capello and Rafa tend to agree with me, if he were a top central midfielder, I think alot of Liverpools problems would be solved.

Not having a go at Gerrard, he is fantastic behind a front 1/2 or coming in from the right. He does not have the discipline to play centrally though.

I am sure you have been saving all that up for ages but what is your point?

Your post is a response to someones dismissing your claim that Carrick would be picked ahead if Gerrard as complete nonsense.

Your response is to go on a rant about Gerrard's short comings and using his position in the England team to back up your claims..

The problem with your logic is that despite playing for the league champions of the last 3 years, Carrick has started 2 competitive matches for England in his whole career.

I would compare stats but Gerrard playing an advanced role for the past two seasons obviously skews them in his favour. However, to prove a point, their respective stats for the 06/07 season as follows:

Gerrard: 55 starts in all comps, 14 goals and 10 assists
Carrick: 52 starts in all comps, 6 goals and 5 assists

You are essentially comparing a world class player to a good player that works hard for his team.

Just to even things up, I think I will start comparing Dirk Kuyt to Wayne Rooney.

Dickerty

FF code for me as well please, thanks.

According to reports in Spain, Real Madrid quartet Arjen Robben, Wesley Sneijder, Rafael Van der Vaart and Alvaro Negredo will all be sold this summer to help balance the books.

None are particularly hard working in defence, but nor are Babel, Riera or El Zhar - sure one of these would be worth a bid? We have done two fair bits of business this summer with them, so it would be a reasonable conversation I am sure...

Who would you pick? I think I would go crazy and take sulky Robben, he is the most talented of them, and would be a natural at LM...

stevoslice

Confirmed so far

boards username - team

thebhoy - The Damned United
wcarey1975 - the also rans
redzerdrog - redzers rejects
Crash Bang Wall - the Tangerines.
aaronh007 - Aaron's Red Barons
Brando_ie - KanesOldMan FC
SlickRic - The Aqualoving 11
SWAR - Abu Dhabi do Pool
Board@Work - board@worklfc
tok9 - Bounard F.C
Yom 1 - The Yomstars
~Rebel~ - Fritzel's Kids
DrumSteve - FunkyZeit
Macker1 - Rafa's Revenge
Karmafaerie - SuperCool FC
missingtime - The Plucky Underdogs
Jayob10 - Robert Mugabe XI
jesus_thats_gre - Back of the net
Pyjamarama - Igglephans
mada999 - madas muppets
Eire-Dearg - Pathetic Athletic
micks - Hmmm
internelligent - Devastating Dave
whatawaster -The Neros
GBX - Red Star Byrne FC
Pimpey - Pimpey's Ho's
joe123 - Anfield of Dreams©
BastardPrince - mullerXI
livinginkorea - LiverpoolKorea


WibblyWobblyWonders
Poul Road XI
Sheilas shop
The Burger Barry's
Teeth_or_Feet
FC XeRo
Rustys Babes
The Penguins
Red_Alibabba
This Year
Deadly Buzz fc
FC Inter Your Ma
Torres & Co.
Longball merchants


PM me for code, and let me know what team your managing.

Edit:
Whats the consensus on closing the league to new players once the season has started?

Eire-Dearg

Count me in TheBhoy!

jesus_thats_gre

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N165382090811-1725.htm

Spanish starlet Daniel Pacheco has today committed his future to Liverpool by signing a new contract with the club until 2012.
The former Barcelona striker has yet to make his competitive debut but featured in Rafael Benitez's first team squad during pre-season.

He is a regular member of the reserve team squad and is also a Spanish youth international.

Meanwhile, striker Craig Lindfield has had his contract at Anfield terminated by mutual consent.

The former FA Youth Cup winner spent last season on loan at Accrington Stanley.

missingtime

thebhoy wrote: »

Whats the consensus on closing the league to new players once the season has started?

Give about a week or two just in case people are away, i'd say.

It would be better that way rather than having people start throughout the season. The league gets messed up when that happens.

missingtime

Dickerty wrote: »

FF code for me as well please, thanks.

According to reports in Spain, Real Madrid quartet Arjen Robben, Wesley Sneijder, Rafael Van der Vaart and Alvaro Negredo will all be sold this summer to help balance the books.

Wouldn't mind seeing what that fella Negredo can do. I thought he was coming in part with Alonso but in the long run its better to have the cash.

Sneijder, I heard was supposed to be staying in Madrid. He wants to fight for his place. A lot of people here rate him but I have not seen a whole pile of him.

Robben, meh.

whatawaster

The Rooster wrote: »

I've seen the two play for the reserves 10 or 12 times, and never once has Plessis outplayed Spearing.

Plessis is of course bigger and stronger but Spearing is the better passer and has the better shot. Spearing makes things happen, he creates things, Plessis does not. Plessis keeps it simple (gives the ball to Spearing!), but therefore makes less mistakes. Spearing's not afraid of a tackle either. Both very different players of course, and to be honest I was hoping both would do better in pre-season than they did.

Spearing is a very limited player, and unfortunately i don't see him making it at the top level. He's not bad at anything, but he doesn't do anything particularly well - he's very small, his technique isn't great, he gives the ball away too much. I think he'll have a good career in football, just not at Liverpool. I mean he's light-years behind Lucas, and look at the stick he gets.

Boggles wrote: »

He was never the best central midfielder at Liverpool let alone England. He always played his best football out right or in a more attacking central role.

Rubbish. In Houllier's last few seasons he pretty much single-handedly kept us as a top4/5 team. He was magnificent. As a CM.

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard too often hides or goes missing in games, a central midfielder at a top club can't be afforded such a luxury.

Gerrard never hides. He has bad games at CM, he has bad games at AM, but he never hides, never shirks responsibility. How many times has he stepped up to the plate in big games to dig us out of holes. More than any player in world football i'd venture.

Boggles wrote: »

Capello and Rafa tend to agree with me, if he were a top central midfielder, I think alot of Liverpools problems would be solved.

He's a top central midfielder. But those managers realise that he's pretty much the best at AMC in the world along with Kaka, and you don't get the best of him in midfield. Nothing to do with his ability at CM. That's where he made his reputation as the best young player in the country, as an England international, as a target for numerous top clubs. Sounds like a top class CM to me.

He's top class in pretty much every position he plays - be it CM, AM or on the wing.

tok9

MementoMori wrote: »

I was actually thinking about this - mainly on the back of Lucas's goal at the weekend.
EDIT: and the fact that as jesus said he was playing in a more advanced position for large chunks of the game.

I would imagine that a lot of teams playing Liverpool might deploy a defensive CM whose primary job is to track Gerrard and try and man-mark him. These teams would be expecting Gerrard to play the centre role of the 3 in 4-2-3-1.
The DM assigned to mark Gerrard would be expecting to be playing a role in front of the CBs offering protection for them and picking up Gerrard.

In games like this it might be an idea to have some sort of plan for this. If Lucas and Gerrard switch position, even for short periods of time it could well mean that a vast amount of space could open up where the defence expect the DM covering Gerrard is meant to be. It would also create doubt and uncertainty in the DMs mind - should he track Gerrard when he drops deep picking up the ball from the CBs and risk leaving an amout of space free or should he stay where he is and take the risk that if Gerrard makes a surging run from deep the DM will be able to stop him?

It's a possibility no?

Overall though I would be surprised if Lucas was consistently played ahead of Gerrard here but I would not be one bit surprised to see them switching places on a regular basis. This would also work for Aquilani as well given his fierce shot when he returns. Another option in terms of swapping Gerrard's position might be to switch him with one of the wing players in the front 3 at times but I feel this would be less effective in terms of taking the DM deep and away from his position.

Rafa?

Mr Alan

someone wanna PM me the code for the fantasy football please!

The Rooster

whatawaster wrote: »

Spearing is a very limited player, and unfortunately i don't see him making it at the top level. He's not bad at anything, but he doesn't do anything particularly well - he's very small, his technique isn't great, he gives the ball away too much. I think he'll have a good career in football, just not at Liverpool. I mean he's light-years behind Lucas, and look at the stick he gets.

Fair enough comment about him being small and that he many not make it at Liverpool.

The rest is absolute nonsense about a 20 year old who has just been awarded a new contract by Benitez and whom clearly you have seen feck all of.

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The problem with your logic is that despite playing for the league champions of the last 3 years, Carrick has started 2 competitive matches for England in his whole career.

One of the main reasons England didn't qualify for the last tournament was because of the weak midfield, something Lampard himself admitted to. A player like Carrick in there would have made a difference IMO.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I would compare stats but Gerrard playing an advanced role for the past two seasons obviously skews them in his favour. However, to prove a point, their respective stats for the 06/07 season as follows:

Gerrard: 55 starts in all comps, 14 goals and 10 assists
Carrick: 52 starts in all comps, 6 goals and 5 assists

You are essentially comparing a world class player to a good player that works hard for his team.

Again stats skewed, Gerrard that season started 12 games on the right of midfield and 3 where he plays now. Carrick is an out and out central midfielder and in that postion here and now, I would pick him ahead of Gerrard. If he was this world class central midfielder ye talked about, it would ease Rafas central midfield headache, and allow proper progress of the team/squad and bring in a partner for Torres, scarificing a fruitful partnership, but if Gerrard was all you say he is it would be for the overall good of the team, Rafa simply doesn't trust him in the centre.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Just to even things up, I think I will start comparing Dirk Kuyt to Wayne Rooney.

Go Ahead.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Rubbish. In Houllier's last few seasons he pretty much single-handedly kept us as a top4/5 team. He was magnificent. As a CM.

I think you'll find it was Owen and his goals that kept in a top 4/5 team.

joe123

Karmafaerie wrote: »

The double standards and duality in this thread are mindboggling (no intention there Boggles;))!



Let me get this straight.


If you post negatiely about Liverpool, that's just your opinion.

If you post positively about Liverpool, you're a memeber of a pack of delusional, biased, red tinted glasses wearing bullies, with their heads shoved up Rafa's ar$e.

That is basically the crux of certain posts here in the last few days.

It's okay to come on here and attack players and the manager.
But you're a bully if you try and defend them.

Seriously.
What the fu€k!!!

And you don't even have to be positive.
All you have to do is say that you don't think the negative poster is correct, and all of a sudden you're worse than Hitler!

This is a forum.
The people who are posting negative comments are looking for feedback.
They want to discuss their opinion swith somebody.
But they have to accept that if somebody disagrees with them, it's not personal.
It's just that they disagree.

I don't care if you're negatie about Liverpool.
But if you post in a public forum about your negative beliefs, expect top be questioned on them.

If you don't want to listen to people disagree with you.
Don't post.

We're not hunting you don to argue with you.
You are joining a conversation, then accusing everyone who disagrees with you of bullying you!

Grow up.

The problem here is that the ones that seem to defend absolutely everything about the club wether it be Lucas,Rafa,Alonso all of a sudden not being "that great" are the likes of you,Whatawaster,Jesus thats gre who are all regular posters and will be posting on here through out the day.

You will all pick the person who might have stated that Lucas isnt up to standard or whatever and it comes across as pack mentality which in a way is but thats simply because you all post frequently.

To me it seems you all just defend everything about the club the whole time. Whats annoyed me lately is the way alot of you have downgraded Alonso contribution completly,the way Lucas is almost a quality player and how Voronin might actually come good.

Then you usually put in "if they dont work out in 6 months time feel free to rub it in our faces" which in turn you will probably post "but at least we supported the club etc etc".

I actually used to enjoy reading on here an posting the ocassional time but anymore to me it just feels like hard work trying to defend why you might not think this certain aspect aint great or that rafa ****ed up there or whatever.

Its just not enjoyable anymore. You may say thats what debating is but alot of the posters on here are overly aggresive and the frequency of posts its just impossible to keep up.

You can continue to tell people to grow up the whole time but have you ever thought that maybe you should look at yourselves regarding some of your own posts?

Also thought one of the mods spockety I think it was posted a comment on wanting to make Fink disappear. Thats bad from a regular poster never mind a mod. And you say theres no pack mentality?:rolleyes:

Macker1

thebhoy wrote: »

Confirmed so far

boards username - team

thebhoy - The Damned United
wcarey1975 - the also rans
redzerdrog - redzers rejects
Crash Bang Wall - the Tangerines.
aaronh007 - Aaron's Red Barons
Brando_ie - KanesOldMan FC
SlickRic - The Aqualoving 11
SWAR - Abu Dhabi do Pool
Board@Work - board@worklfc
tok9 - Bounard F.C
Yom 1 - The Yomstars
~Rebel~ - Fritzel's Kids
DrumSteve - FunkyZeit
Macker1 - Rafa's Revenge
Karmafaerie - SuperCool FC
missingtime - The Plucky Underdogs
Jayob10 - Robert Mugabe XI
jesus_thats_gre - Back of the net
Pyjamarama - Igglephans
mada999 - madas muppets
Eire-Dearg - Pathetic Athletic
micks - hmmm
internelligent - Devastating Dave
whatawaster -The Neros
GBX - Red Star Byrne FC


WibblyWobblyWonders
Poul Road XI
Sheilas shop
Anfield of Dreams©
The Burger Barry's
Teeth_or_Feet
FC XeRo
Rustys Babes
The Penguins
Red_Alibabba
LiverpoolKorea
This Year

PM me for code, and let me know what team your managing.

Edit:
Whats the consensus on closing the league to new players once the season has started?

I reckon the league so be closed after a short period of time, say at the end of August. This should provide the opportunity for people to see that a league is up and running and allow them time to enter if they so wish.

whatawaster

The Rooster wrote: »

Fair enough comment about him being small and that he many not make it at Liverpool.

The rest is absolute nonsense about a 20 year old who has just been awarded a new contract by Benitez and whom clearly you have seen feck all of.

I have watched 80% of our reserve games over the last 2 years.
I suspect he's being kept on more to make up the numbers in the CL squad than anything else.
I really hope i'm wrong though

Thanx 4 The Fish

Chuck us the FF code there boyos.

Bandit12

Delighted with the Pacheco contract deal. IMO this lad is going to be a huge star. Fantastic for us in pre-season and hopefully can become a regular squad player this season... BTW thanks to the poster providing the entertainment on this thread saying Gerrard would'nt be a top midfielder for a top club Think then post.

Dublin_Gunner

Can I get the code to the league as well please?

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

One of the main reasons England didn't qualify for the last tournament was because of the weak midfield, something Lampard himself admitted to. A player like Carrick in there would have made a difference IMO.

Ah, so Frank Lampard says that England had a weak midfield and that automatically means that Steven Gerrard was the short coming. Even for you Boggles, that it quite the jump.

The reasons for England's failing in that qualifying campaign was discussed to death and it wasn't the ability of individual players that was a fault. It was down to a manager who was essentially tactically inept and incapable of making tough decisions.

As I pointed out. Carrick has started a total of 2 competitive England matches in his career. For the past 3 years, he has been first choice for the title winners and one of the best teams in Europe and despite this, he has been overlooked completely for Gareth Barry.

Boggles wrote: »

Again stats skewed, Gerrard that season started 12 games on the right of midfield and 3 where he plays now. Carrick is an out and out central midfielder and in that postion here and now, I would pick him ahead of Gerrard. If he was this world class central midfielder ye talked about, it would ease Rafas central midfield headache, and allow proper progress of the team/squad and bring in a partner for Torres, scarificing a fruitful partnership, but if Gerrard was all you say he is it would be for the overall good of the team, Rafa simply doesn't trust him in the centre.

I could use the same logic to argue that Wayne Rooney is not the world class striker that United fans like to think he is. Like Rooney, Gerrard being moved out of his natural position was due to short comings in a squad, his natural ability and athleticism meaning that he could any position and still make a massive difference. This is reflected in him being shifted back to right back on a few occasions.

Gerrard can be an out and out anything. You can put him in virtually any position and he will excel. The same applies to Rooney. You are talking about the best of the best.

There is simply no point in comparing Carrick to him.

Boggles wrote: »

Go Ahead.

You obviously didn't get my point. I know enough about football that I can recognise the difference between a world class player and decent player performing at a high level.

jesus_thats_gre

Bandit12 wrote: »

Delighted with the Pacheco contract deal. IMO this lad is going to be a huge star. Fantastic for us in pre-season and hopefully can become a regular squad player this season... BTW thanks to the poster providing the entertainment on this thread saying Gerrard would'nt be a top midfielder for a top club Think then post.

Agree completely about Pacheco. Have seen enough of him to be confident that he is going to live up to expectations. I can't wait either!!

Havent seen too much of Pacheco,I have seen Nemeth who I think is class.

How good is Pacheco,will we see him play this year?

mike65

Not unless there is a striker crisis of epic proportions (maybe a cameo in a cup game when 3-0 up or 3-0 down)

tok9

Elisa Hallowed Beekeeper wrote: »

Havent seen too much of Pacheco,I have seen Nemeth who I think is class.

How good is Pacheco,will we see him play this year?

Better! He looks like a serious gem... absolutely fantastic technique already. If he doesn't make it i'll be shocked

Karmafaerie

joe123 wrote: »

The problem here is that the ones that seem to defend absolutely everything about the club wether it be Lucas,Rafa,Alonso all of a sudden not being "that great" are the likes of you,Whatawaster,Jesus thats gre who are all regular posters and will be posting on here through out the day.

You will all pick the person who might have stated that Lucas isnt up to standard or whatever and it comes across as pack mentality which in a way is but thats simply because you all post frequently.

To me it seems you all just defend everything about the club the whole time. Whats annoyed me lately is the way alot of you have downgraded Alonso contribution completly,the way Lucas is almost a quality player and how Voronin might actually come good.

Then you usually put in "if they dont work out in 6 months time feel free to rub it in our faces" which in turn you will probably post "but at least we supported the club etc etc".

I actually used to enjoy reading on here an posting the ocassional time but anymore to me it just feels like hard work trying to defend why you might not think this certain aspect aint great or that rafa ****ed up there or whatever.

Its just not enjoyable anymore. You may say thats what debating is but alot of the posters on here are overly aggresive and the frequency of posts its just impossible to keep up.

You can continue to tell people to grow up the whole time but have you ever thought that maybe you should look at yourselves regarding some of your own posts?

Also thought one of the mods spockety I think it was posted a comment on wanting to make Fink disappear. Thats bad from a regular poster never mind a mod. And you say theres no pack mentality?:rolleyes:

First off, you're mirroring exactly what I posted yesterday!
Practicaly verbatim!!!

I mean only a few pages back I said

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm one of the more active posters here, and with the exception of Boggles, most of the more active posters are pro Rafa.
So I believe the incorrect conception that some take is that it's ganging up.
No.
It's simply us posting our opinions.

In future please make sure that I already haven't made the exact same point before you try and lecture me.


As for Spokety being a mod.
He's not a mod here in the footbal forum.
He's just another poster.
He's a mod in the DCU forum, as it says directly under his name.

When somebody takes anyone disagreeing with them as a personal insult, and goes so far to cry wolf and call them bullies, they should grow up.

Everyone is entitled to post their opinion here.
And calling somebody a bully for disagreeing with them is childish.


Simples.

~Rebel~

Delighted to see Pacheco has a new contract, i see him being an absolute star within the next 4 years, and a regular senior player in the next 2.

For anyone not particularly familiar with him, here's a few snippets. Obviously being a youtube you can't expect these things every time he gets the ball, but what you can expect is fantastic close control and a great eye for a defence splitting pass. The ball just sticks to his feet until he releases it, amongst the best close control at liverpool along with Yossi. The opposition he's facing are obviously a class below, but its the technique its really worth watching, the ball never strays more then a foot away from him, without sacrificing pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBYacf1kJ8g

joe123

Karmafaerie wrote: »

First off, you're mirroring exactly what I posted yesterday!
Practicaly verbatim!!!

I mean only a few pages back I said




In future please make sure that I already haven't made the exact same point before you try and lecture me.


As for Spokety being a mod.
He's not a mod here in the footbal forum.
He's just another poster.
He's a mod in the DCU forum, as it says directly under his name.

When somebody takes anyone disagreeing with them as a personal insult, and goes so far to cry wolf and call them bullies, they should grow up.

Everyone is entitled to post their opinion here.
And calling somebody a bully for disagreeing with them is childish.


Simples.

With the speed this thread moves at plus alot of the poo that gets posted on here I rarely go back more than two to three pages so never seen your post. Anyways its a point we agree on so thats always a good sign! :pac:


Im also excited about the prospect of Pacheco. Looked aboslute quality in pre season. Impressed me more than nemeth who i was really looking out for. Pacheco reminds me off just the type of player we need in the squad a fast quick footed attacker who can make things happen.

Nemeth disapointed me a little but has the likings of fowler about him at times. Hope the pair of them get a few chances this season.

noodler

Karmafaerie wrote: »

First off, you're mirroring exactly what I posted yesterday!
Practicaly verbatim!!!

I mean only a few pages back I said




In future please make sure that I already haven't made the exact same point before you try and lecture me.


As for Spokety being a mod.
He's not a mod here in the footbal forum.
He's just another poster.
He's a mod in the DCU forum, as it says directly under his name.

When somebody takes anyone disagreeing with them as a personal insult, and goes so far to cry wolf and call them bullies, they should grow up.

Everyone is entitled to post their opinion here.
And calling somebody a bully for disagreeing with them is childish.


Simples.

Is 'simples' the new rolly-eyes? It doesn't strengthen your points.

Karmafaerie

noodler wrote: »

Is 'simples' the new rolly-eyes? It doesn't strengthen your points.

Simples

Dickerty

For Spearing, I think he could get better, but not going to get taller, and that will limit his effectiveness in a very competative part of the pitch. He'll defo get some minutes in the CL, but Rafa seems to still have Plessis ahead of him, and probably rightly so in terms of potential and physical suitability...

Dont be at yourself

Plz to have FF code?

(Also, why don't we post it in the Liverpool Supporters Group thingybobs?)

Mr Alan

would i be right in suggesting our net spend was zero last year?

and as it stands it's zero for this year too?

PiE

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Plz to have FF code?

Me too please.

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Ah, so Frank Lampard says that England had a weak midfield and that automatically means that Steven Gerrard was the short coming. Even for you Boggles, that it quite the jump.

Well yeah, when Lampard specifically blamed himself and Gerrard for Englands failure.

'If we had, I think we probably would have qualified for the Euros. It's not a case of being big-headed. If you look at what we've done for our clubs and the way we play I'd like to think we could have qualified. I think we are both big enough, as well as humble enough, to admit that. And that's the case whether we've played together or separately.'

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The reasons for England's failing in that qualifying campaign was discussed to death and it wasn't the ability of individual players that was a fault. It was down to a manager who was essentially tactically inept and incapable of making tough decisions.

I agree the right decision was to drop Gerrard from the centre and bring in someone like Carrick.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

As I pointed out. Carrick has started a total of 2 competitive England matches in his career. For the past 3 years, he has been first choice for the title winners and one of the best teams in Europe and despite this, he has been overlooked completely for Gareth Barry.

Repeating this constantly does not back up your theory, England have been shíté for the past 3 years, an easy qualifying group for this world cup does not gloss over that fact.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I could use the same logic to argue that Wayne Rooney is not the world class striker that United fans like to think he is. Like Rooney, Gerrard being moved out of his natural position was due to short comings in a squad, his natural ability and athleticism meaning that he could any position and still make a massive difference. This is reflected in him being shifted back to right back on a few occasions.

The problem with this is Gerrard plays far better out right or up front instead of the "natural position" you say he does. So which would be his natural position, the one he plays best in or the one he has struggled in, particularly last season?

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You obviously didn't get my point. I know enough about football that I can recognise the difference between a world class player and decent player performing at a high level.

I'm not saying Carrick is better than Gerrard, I'm saying if I were playing a out and out central midfielder at this stage in their careers, it would be Carrick for me everytime.

Mr Alan

probably why you're not a manager boggles

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

probably why you're not a manager boggles

But Al, even Saint Rafa doesn't trust him in the centre anymore. Surely he is a great manager?

Capello plays him out left?

Boggles suggests he can't be trusted in the centre and ye attack me?

Mr Alan

actually Gerrard played in the centre a fair few times for Liverpool last season, and was exceptional. don't let that get in the way of your argument though.

the reason he doesn't play their all the time is luckily, him & torres are about the best attacking partnership in the world. can't look a gift horse like that in the mouth.

~Rebel~

To be fair the couple of games he played in the center last year when we went 4-4-2, he was immense. He's more valuable from a position where he can directly win a game, playing off torres, but thats not in any way to say that he's unreliable/untrustable in CM.

--amadeus--

Gerrard is tall, strong and relatively fast. He's strong in the tackle (has calmed down a lot from his early years) and good in the air. He's also strong technically with a good range of both long and short passes.

As such he is equipped to play pretty much any outfield position - indeed he has filled in at right back a couple of times IIRC.

However he has a great understanding with Torres and a great eye for goal. Therefore his greatest use to the team is as a deep lying striker / advanced attacking midfielder.

This does not mean he "cannot be trusted" in midfield. It certainly doesn't mean that Carrick (Carrick!!) is a better midfielder than Gerrard. And frankly even if it did I'm not sure how relevant that would be to the LFC thread?

jesus_thats_gre

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Gerrard is tall, strong and relatively fast. He's strong in the tackle (has calmed down a lot from his early years) and good in the air. He's also strong technically with a good range of both long and short passes.

As such he is equipped to play pretty much any outfield position - indeed he has filled in at right back a couple of times IIRC.

However he has a great understanding with Torres and a great eye for goal. Therefore his greatest use to the team is as a deep lying striker / advanced attacking midfielder.

This does not mean he "cannot be trusted" in midfield. It certainly doesn't mean that Carrick (Carrick!!) is a better midfielder than Gerrard. And frankly even if it did I'm not sure how relevant that would be to the LFC thread?

I will just quote this instead of replying to the points that you made Boggles.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

actually Gerrard played in the centre a fair few times for Liverpool last season, and was exceptional. don't let that get in the way of your argument though.

He was never exceptional, he was actually quite poor Al, so much so that Lucas made a shed load of appearances.

Mr Alan wrote: »

the reason he doesn't play their all the time is luckily, him & torres are about the best attacking partnership in the world. can't look a gift horse like that in the mouth.

What did Gerrard get last season, 10 goals from open play? Hardly a top notch scoring return.

The point is if Rafa trusted him in the centre and he is this world class centrally midfielder a few of ye believe, then the correct signing would have been a partner for Torres for the money payed for Aquaman, a strike partner that could easily eclipse Gerrards goals up front, let Gerrard blossom in midfield, and still have the option of the Gerrard/Torres partnership with Lucas taking over a portion of the games for injury, etc.

I said it at the start of the summer, the Gerrard/Torres partnership would have to be broken up for the club to be successful, even more so now that Alonso has left.

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

This does not mean he "cannot be trusted" in midfield. It certainly doesn't mean that Carrick (Carrick!!) is a better midfielder than Gerrard. And frankly even if it did I'm not sure how relevant that would be to the LFC thread?

It's called a tangent, read back a couple of pages and you will get the catalyst.

Screaming relevance to the thread is a poor way to make a point by the way.

Karmafaerie

Boggles.
Frank Lampard also says Chelsea are the best club in England.
Does that make it true?

Cause last I heard, Lampard was a footaballer.
Not a manager of any kind whatsoever.

Footballers have been known to say lots of things.

Like remember when El Hadji Diouf said he wsa one of the best players in the world.
That must be true too.


I think that what we can take from your post is that Frank Lampard should clearly be the England manager.

Mr Alan

he was exceptional, Everton away springs to mind-in fact i distinctly remember a few heads (PHB for example) who held the belief he could no longer play in midfield commented in the match thread that they were wrong & he had proven as much.

actually, ok boggles, you're right, gerrard is no good playing playing off Torres, no good playing in CM, in fact i don't even know why we bother keeping him in the team. useless he is.

--amadeus--

Boggles wrote: »

It's called a tangent, read back a couple of pages and you will get the catalyst.

Screaming relevance to the thread is a poor way to make a point by the way.

A poor way to make an argument is to ignore the counter arguments. You know the ones that kind of prove you wrong :P

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

A poor way to make an argument is to ignore the counter arguments. You know the ones that kind of prove you wrong :P

If you had read back, you would have seen the points you made have already been raised and argued, I'm not going to argue with every Scouse who comes in and reads from the red tinted hymn sheet.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

He was never exceptional, he was actually quite poor Al, so much so that Lucas made a shed load of appearances.



What did Gerrard get last season, 10 goals from open play? Hardly a top notch scoring return.

The point is if Rafa trusted him in the centre and he is this world class centrally midfielder a few of ye believe, then the correct signing would have been a partner for Torres for the money payed for Aquaman, a strike partner that could easily eclipse Gerrards goals up front, let Gerrard blossom in midfield, and still have the option of the Gerrard/Torres partnership with Lucas taking over a portion of the games for injury, etc.

I said it at the start of the summer, the Gerrard/Torres partnership would have to be broken up for the club to be successful, even more so now that Alonso has left.

Why in the name of Xenu would that be the case?!!!!!

We have the best strike partnership in the league.

We loose an out and out midfielder.

So we should replace the midfielder with one of the strikers, breaking up the best strike partnership out there, hoping that the new striker will click with Torres (cause that worked so well with Keane!).


No, you replace the out and out midfielder with.........an out and out midfielder.



I know logic's never been your strong suit Boggles old chap, but please.