Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

kingshankly

alonso has been terrific for us but the quicker he goes the better,its time to move on get someone in and from what i seen last night a lot of hard work has to be done.

Karmafaerie

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand how people can rate Lucas.

Because we're not closed minded.

K-9

PiE wrote: »

And how exactly would that be worse than what we have now? The media is still running speculative stories every 5 minutes, Rafa's interviews/match talks are being overrun with questions about Alonso and we're still unsure of what our starting line-up will be in 3 weeks time.

If he'd come out and said "I want to go, here's my transfer request" or "I want to stay, here's me committing myself" AT THE VERY START we'd have avoided a whole summer of speculation and might actually have a cohesive unit at the start of the campaign.

Jaysus, you are being harsh on him.

Real are the ones messing about here, not Alonso. Alonso or Rafa cannot force Real to offer the asking price.

stevoslice

Rosco1982 wrote: »

It's Madrid and LIverpool that are dicking about, not Xabi.

Yeah right, liverpool are dicking about by having a value on a player that they do not want to sell to a club that considers him to be the only player of his ilk in world football

shotamoose

PiE wrote: »

If he'd come out and said "I want to go, here's my transfer request" or "I want to stay, here's me committing myself" AT THE VERY START we'd have avoided a whole summer of speculation and might actually have a cohesive unit at the start of the campaign.

That would make sense if he had his heart completely set on either staying or going, but based on the little he has actually said, that's not the case. It really doesn't seem as if he would be all that upset at staying if Real couldn't stump up what Rafa was asking, in whch case coming out and saying "I want to go" would be stupid and bad for the club. But saying "I want to say, no matter what" would be equally stupid given the possibility of Real paying the asking price and Rafa letting him make a move he would be very happy to make.

I don't see why he should be berated for not making things as simple as you want them to be. It's the clubs that have got in the way of a quick resolution, not him.

8-10

"Liverpool have signed Roma midfielder Alberto Aquilani for £15.3m" (Marca)

If true, I really hope that figure is wrong. €18m. http://www.marca.com/2009/08/03/futbol/futbol_internacional/premier_league/1249292420.html

mike65

18 million euro seems about right to me.

jesus_thats_gre

8-10 wrote: »

"Liverpool have signed Roma midfielder Alberto Aquilani for £15.3m" (Marca)

If true, I really hope that figure is wrong. €18m. http://www.marca.com/2009/08/03/futbol/futbol_internacional/premier_league/1249292420.html

You would be disappointed that we paid £15m for a player of that calibre? Am asking because I can't believe that you would be disappointed about the fee paid.

SlickRic

if true, and if £15m, that's damn fine business really.

marca though.

PiE

shotamoose wrote: »

That would make sense if he had his heart completely set on either staying or going, but based on the little he has actually said, that's not the case. It really doesn't seem as if he would be all that upset at staying if Real couldn't stump up what Rafa was asking

From everything that Rafa has said, he doesn't want Alonso to go for any price. It's not a case of a price being slapped on Alonso and being touted around for someone to match that price. Madrid are looking to sign him and have completely disrupted Liverpool's plans for the coming season, Alonso could have put a stop to that weeks ago by making a decision. Alonso and Alonso alone has the final say and it's been his decision to let this go on so long.

All this "ah but sure he's a lovely chap and a complete professional so he'd never say anything bad about anybody ever" is rubbish - he's passively but very effectively pushing for a move by not ruling it out and forcing Liverpool to put a price on his head.

SlickRic

PiE wrote: »

From everything that Rafa has said, he doesn't want Alonso to go for any price. It's not a case of a price being slapped on Alonso and being touted around for someone to match that price. Madrid are looking to sign him and have completely disrupted Liverpool's plans for the coming season, Alonso could have put a stop to that weeks ago by making a decision. Alonso and Alonso alone has the final say and it's been his decision to let this go on so long.

All this "ah but sure he's a lovely chap and a complete professional so he'd never say anything bad about anybody ever" is rubbish - he's passively but very effectively pushing for a move by not ruling it out and forcing Liverpool to put a price on his head.

if he had gone the other way and openly begged for a move, i suspect you'd be calling him something along the lines of an ungrateful, disloyal, whining prat.

no matter what alonso did in his handling of this, he couldn't win then no?

8-10

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You would be disappointed that we paid £15m for a player of that calibre? Am asking because I can't believe that you would be disappointed about the fee paid.

It pretty much rules out a bid for Silva or Villa if either were ever possible. I guess I was secretly hoping to get one of the Dutch lads in part/ex for Xabi and then use the cash for one of the Valencia lads.

We'll see how it goes. Aquilani is quality alright, just hope he travels better than some other Italians have!

Also it is Marca, nothing definite.

Dont be at yourself

With Arbeloa (4) and Alonso (32) out, and Johnson (18) and Aquilani (18) in, that leaves our net spend at roughly around 0, right? And with Dossena edging closer to door, we might end up with a net profit on our dealings!

Rafa apparently had the funds for the Johnson deal independent of any others, so it's hopefully safe to say that he has around 20 million euros in the bank to play with. Whether he'll feel the need to spend it this late in the window, with prices inflated and the season almost upon us, is another thing. And, with a harsh refinancing deal agreed, can G&H afford to pass on the money to Rafa for transfers?

whatawaster

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

With Arbeloa (4) and Alonso (32) out, and Johnson (18) and Aquilani (18) in, that leaves our net spend at roughly around 0, right? And with Dossena edging closer to door, we might end up with a net profit on our dealings!

Rafa apparently had the funds for the Johnson deal independent of any others, so it's hopefully safe to say that he has around 20 million euros in the bank to play with. Whether he'll feel the need to spend it this late in the window, with prices inflated and the season almost upon us, is another thing. And, with a harsh refinancing deal agreed, can G&H afford to pass on the money to Rafa for transfers?

I think if the above deals go through and Dossena goes i think we might see a cheap defender coming in and an attacking midfielder/forward.

Karmafaerie

It's just Marca so far, but it sounds about right.
I'd say Alonso will be gone by Thursday at latest now.


£15,000,000 for Aquilani is very reasonable.
And wages of around £65,000 a week.

jesus_thats_gre

I think Johnson, or a large amount of his fee, was out transfer budget for the summer before sales. Aquilani would come out of the Alonso fee I would imagine.

If we were to loose Alonso and sign Aquilani and Cattermole to replace him, I would be a happy man.

Handsome Bob

I'll be very happy if these deals go through today. At this stage I'm glad to see the back of Xabi, not because he wants to leave, but because of his underhandedness.

spockety

I'll be glad to see the back of Xabi too, only because it will mean the saga is over, and my official period of mourning can finally begin.

PiE

SlickRic wrote: »

if he had gone the other way and openly begged for a move, i suspect you'd be calling him something along the lines of an ungrateful, disloyal, whining prat.

no matter what alonso did in his handling of this, he couldn't win then no?

Yea for yeeears I've just been dying for Alonso to engineer a move to Madrid so I could unload on him.

Karmafaerie

I'll miss Xabi, but I won't miss the disruption that this has caused to our pre-season.

SlickRic

PiE wrote: »

Yea for yeeears I've just been dying for Alonso to engineer a move to Madrid so I could unload on him.

the fact is we're all annoyed that it's come to this and he's leaving.

but i'd prefer him to be handling himself the way he is, than b*tching away at every opportunity.

Morzadec

I don't see how anyone can complain about how Xabi has handled this. Obviously he could've come out and said he wants to stay, but that'd be a lie. It's perfectly reasonable to understand why he wants to be leave, I'm sure I don't have to list off the reasons.

The fact is, the way he has handled himself has actually left the door open for him to stay. If Real don't meet our valuation then him staying here is still an option, which it wouldn't be had he come out public with a string desire to leave, or handced in a transfer request. He's also not forcing Rafa into a decision that he must sell him. This means that Rafa can hold out for the £30m price-tag. If Xabi was going public and being seen to have a disruptive influence on the team, then Rafa might have thought that it could be better to cut his losses and sell for £25m.

Xabi has shown nothing but respect for the club IMO

PiE

SlickRic wrote: »

the fact is we're all annoyed that it's come to this and he's leaving.

but i'd prefer him to be handling himself the way he is, than b*tching away at every opportunity.

There was a middle ground though - it didn't have to be one or the other.

~Rebel~

Purslow chatting with real

Liverpool managing director Christian Purslow met with Madrid executive director Jose Angel Sanchez in Barcelona on Sunday to discuss Alonso, with the Reds in the city for a friendly against Espanyol.

Purslow confirmed to Spanish newspaper AS that he had spoken with Sanchez but that no agreement had been reached.

The Reds supremo admitted the meeting had been arranged by Benitez, with everyone at Anfield becoming frustrated with the ongoing press speculation over the possible switch.

He said: "This (meeting) has only served to put our positions on the table. We need to continue talking.

"Rafa arranged this knowing what was coming. It was important that we know. So far, most of what is being said is a lie. We were negotiating through the press. It makes no sense.

"Now, I have been impressed by Madrid and Jose Angel. They are friends and will remain so."

Alonso claimed he was unaware of the meeting but added: "It's reassuring to know that Madrid and Liverpool are talking seriously now.

"I decided a long time ago to stay on the margin of everything that was happening.

"My stance has been clear, as you all know. I'm a professional and I must wait for an agreement to be reached, but I hope it is resolved soon, for better or for worse."

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5470392,00.html

SlickRic

PiE wrote: »

There's was a middle ground though - it didn't have to be one or the other.

what is the middle ground if you don't mind me asking?

xabi wants to go, he's said so. he also wouldn't hate to stay if madrid don't meet liverpool's valuation. if madrid stump up the money (we all know they have it), then it's up to him. if at that stage he starts messing about, then fine, get on his case.

he's happy to stay if he has to. this means liverpool are in the box seat, because they don't have to sell for less than they demand.

if it ends up they don't meet the valuation, he stays, and then puts up a stink, again, then i'll get on his case. but so far he's been loyal and honest to us.

~Rebel~

Balague's latest blurb;

"Details of that meeting are emerging and it seems like they have agreed a number; 30million," Balague said on Sky Sports News.

"It's just that Real Madrid are offering 30million euros and Liverpool want 30million pounds - plus about £3million to £5million depending on targets.

"They are still about £4million to £5million different, but that's not a £10million difference as it was 24 hours earlier.

"Now we are at a point where everyone is saying it could happen any time - or it couldn't happen.

"The next call has to come from Real Madrid. They have to put a little bit more money in and Liverpool have to say they will accept a little bit less.

"What is clear up until now is that Liverpool are putting the time into everything. They put an ultimatum in last week, which forced the meeting that took place [on Sunday.]

"Now the next ultimatum is August 8, which is when Liverpool meet Atletico Madrid. By then everything should be sorted, but some people suspect this could happen even earlier."

PiE

SlickRic wrote: »

but so far he's been loyal and honest to us.

Let me ask this question. If he honestly didn't mind if he stayed at Liverpool as he claims - why did he let it run on so long, clearly damaging Liverpool's preparations and plans for next season, when he could have put an end to it with a few words?

Surely if he was 50-50 on the matter and seeing the trouble it was causing the club... he'd have simply put an end to it by saying "no" publically.

He has brilliantly engineered this move and will, for the most part, come out smelling of roses.

SlickRic

PiE wrote: »

Let me ask this question. If he honestly didn't mind if he stayed at Liverpool as he claims - why did he let it run on so long, clearly damaging Liverpool's preparations and plans for next season, when he could have put an end to it with a few words?

what words?

he said he'd like to play for madrid. if madrid give us the money he'll be gone. he's just done it with a bit of class.

madrid, are dragging this out, not xabi. they spent ludicrous money on we all know who. they see xabi as the only player of his kind. they should pay accordingly.

Morzadec

PiE wrote: »

Let me ask this question. If he honestly didn't mind if he stayed at Liverpool as he claims - why did he let it run on so long, clearly damaging Liverpool's preparations and plans for next season, when he could have put an end to it with a few words?

Surely if he was 50-50 on the matter and seeing the trouble it was causing the club... he'd have simply put an end to it by saying "no" publically.

He has brilliantly engineered this move and will, for the most part, come out smelling of roses.

Because he wants to leave. Simple as that. At the same time, he knows these things don't always work out (e.g. Barry last year) and probably is very grateful to Liverpool so it would be better off not to stir things. He's showing the club and the fans the respect we deserve for kick starting his career. I'm sure Xabi would hardly be devastated to stay at Liverpool, but obviously the move to Madrid is his preference.

I honestly don't see what else you would expect him to do? Yes he could come out and say 'No' but that would be a lie! Surely you can understand why Madrid is an attractive option for him?

Basically I don't blame him for wanting to leave. It's understandable. And for him to come out and say 'I want to stay', when in fact the truth is closer to 'Idon't really mind staying but I'd much rather go to Real' would just be ridiculous. It'd be dishonest and it'd make for a nasty surprise if he ended up going back on his word.

PiE

If you want to believe he's been completely fortright and upfront through all this, go ahead. If you feel that not handing in an official transfer request but publically saying he'd like to go is respect for the club & its fans and nothing to do with a loyalty bonuses, go ahead.

Personally I feel he's been passively forcing this move from the start, knows exactly what he's been doing and knows that it's been hurting Liverpool FC.

SlickRic

PiE wrote: »

If you want to believe he's been completely fortright and upfront through all this, go ahead. If you feel that not handing in an official transfer request but publically saying he'd like to go is respect for the club & its fans and nothing to do with a loyalty bonuses, go ahead.

Personally I feel he's been passively forcing this move from the start, knows exactly what he's been doing and knows that it's been hurting Liverpool FC.

fair enough, i do respect the opinion.

only time will tell who's right then i suppose.

I remember saying to my mates when all the transfer rumors started that realisticly if we lose either Xabi or Masch this summer we won't win the league. Sad to see this all happening as Xabi was such a big part of our push last year. Even if we bring in someone they wont offer what Xabi can do with his passing range hence why Real are after him...

The only positive I seen at the start of it all was selling him to fund a deal for Villa which would change our system to 4-4-2 by putting Gerrard back in a more central role but that is VERY unlikely. So disapointing as I thought Johnson was the perfect addition(although overpriced because of nationality) to make the first team solid contenders as Arbeloa was very weak at RB imho with all the mistakes he makes. Call me negative etc if you all want but I am just being realistic. I really hope I am wrong but Xabi going is just total pants if it all goes ahead.

Karmafaerie

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember saying to my mates when all the transfer rumors started that realisticly if we lose either Xabi or Masch this summer we won't win the league. Sad to see this all happening as Xabi was such a big part of our push last year. Even if we bring in someone they wont offer what Xabi can do with his passing range hence why Real are after him...

The only positive I seen at the start of it all was selling him to fund a deal for Villa which would change our system to 4-4-2 by putting Gerrard back in a more central role but that is VERY unlikely. So disapointing as I thought Johnson was the perfect addition(although overpriced because of nationality) to make the first team solid contenders as Arbeloa was very weak at RB imho with all the mistakes he makes. Call me negative etc if you all want but I am just being realistic. I really hope I am wrong but Xabi going is just total pants if it all goes ahead.

You're negative.;)

Seriously though, you can't say you're being realistic untill you see how the team lines up this season.
The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Malice

I would like to point out to the doom and gloom merchants that Liverpool as a club has survived the loss of star players before. It was there long before Alonso every arrived and it'll be there long after he's gone.

Who knows, if he does go we could see a parallel between his replacement and that Scottish lad that Bob Paisley signed to replace Kevin Keegan.

Handsome Bob

Morzadec wrote: »

I honestly don't see what else you would expect him to do? Yes he could come out and say 'No' but that would be a lie! Surely you can understand why Madrid is an attractive option for him?

That's not it at all. I would have accepted it if Xabi Alonso handed in a transfer request. He's not getting any younger and to play for the biggest team in his native land is something I could not begrudge. I would of respected him if he had been honest from the start.

But no, for the whole Summer he has tried to be cute. He was too much of a coward to risk some of the fans wrath by saying he wanted to go and instead wanted Benitez to look like the bad guy.

I have no issue with Xabi Alonso wanting to leave for Real Madrid. I do however have issue with cowards who don't want to accept full responsibility for their own choices.

ilovelamp2000

thebhoy wrote: »

Yeah right, liverpool are dicking about by having a value on a player that they do not want to sell to a club that considers him to be the only player of his ilk in world football

If Liverpool didn't want to sell Alonso why are they negotiating with Madrid ?

Surely we should just say - "thanks but no thanks" ?

Rafa hasn't come out and said he wanted to sell him this season because he learned from the backlash last time, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been looking to sell him since the season ended. He's just been patiently waiting for the right offer.

Rosco1982

Rosco1982 wrote: »

If Liverpool didn't want to sell Alonso why are they negotiating with Madrid ?

Surely we should just say - "thanks but no thanks" ?

Rafa hasn't come out and said he wanted to sell him this season because he learned from the backlash last time, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been looking to sell him since the season ended. He's just been patiently waiting for the right offer.

He handed in a transfer request and clearly does not want to be there,you cant really keep a player that doesnt want to be there and he would probably bring down squad moral.


So they really are being forced to sell him.

ilovelamp2000

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Because we're not closed minded.

If you think Lucas is any good you're more likely to be out of your mind in fairness.

He's weak, slow, passes it 97% of the time sideways, doesn't score, doesn't create, has big clown feet and **** hair.

What do you see in him ?

ilovelamp2000

Elisa Hallowed Beekeeper wrote: »

He handed in a transfer request and clearly does not want to be there,you cant really keep a player that doesnt want to be there and he would probably bring down squad moral.


So they really are being forced to sell him.

He's got three years left on his contract, we weren't forced into selling him.

Have you forgotten this is a player Rafa actively tried to sell last year

Xabi wanted out, Rafa wanted him out - provided the money was right.

Both sides get what they wanted out of it. Whether it's good for us or not depends entirely on how Rafa spends the proceeds.

Karmafaerie

Seeing as it seems more and more like Aquilani will be lining up in our center midfield this season, a few bits of info.


Alberto is not a direct copy of Xabi.
He can ditate the play and tempo as much, but he doesn't have the same range of passing by a long shot.

What he does have however is very fast feet, and the ability to play the killer pass with both legs.

He is a lot more direct, and a lot faster however, and tends to enjoy making Gerrard-esque runs into the box.

He's got a rocket of a right foot, but interestingly is also very accomplished with his left.

He is a good set piece taker. Unlike Xabi he uses power more so than finese though, and tends to shoot from further out.

He's considered by many as the long term replacement for Pirlo in the national set-up.

Here's the obligatory Youtube vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yX_BBFUyVE

If he does come for £15-16 mill as is being reported, I'll be very, very, happy.

It's just a case of whether he can adapt to the game in England.

Karmafaerie

Rosco1982 wrote: »

If you think Lucas is any good you're more likely to be out of your mind in fairness.

He's weak, slow, passes it 97% of the time sideways, doesn't score, doesn't create, has big clown feet and **** hair.

What do you see in him ?

'nuff said.:rolleyes:

shotamoose

PiE wrote: »

but publically saying he'd like to go is respect for the club & its fans and nothing to do with a loyalty bonuses, go ahead.

Not saying you're wrong but I can't remember him coming out and *publicly* saying he wants to go to Madrid. Got a link?

Headshot

who was the last Italian player to make it in the PL ?

ilovelamp2000

Karmafaerie wrote: »

'nuff said.:rolleyes:

It's important.

It's why I never rated Robbie Savage and Jimmy Bullard too.

ilovelamp2000

Headshot wrote: »

who was the last Italian player to make it in the PL ?

Zola, Di Canio, Vialli ,Di Matteo , Ravanelli.

There haven't been many but they've generally done pretty well (let's not mention the one we signed last summer on Trappatoni's recommendation)

Chardee MacDennis

Zola or di Matteo is all i can think of but i am sure there are a few more.

cant believe i forgot Vialli and Di Canio, not sure to what extent you can say Ravenelli made it...

Karmafaerie

Headshot wrote: »

who was the last Italian player to make it in the PL ?

Who was the last Portugeuse player before Ronaldo?

Ivorian before Drogba?

How many German's have really set the premier league alight at the top level?

SlickRic

Rosco1982 wrote: »

If you think Lucas is any good you're more likely to be out of your mind in fairness.

He's weak, slow, passes it 97% of the time sideways, doesn't score, doesn't create, has big clown feet and **** hair.

What do you see in him ?

wow.

just wow.

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Who was the last Portugeuse player before Ronaldo?

Ivorian before Drogba?

How many German's have really set the premier league alight at the top level?

my word very defensive

i was merely asking

Italians dont usually move to other league's because of international duty

Glico Man

Rosco1982 wrote: »

If you think Lucas is any good you're more likely to be out of your mind in fairness.

He's weak, slow, passes it 97% of the time sideways, doesn't score, doesn't create, has big clown feet and **** hair.

What do you see in him ?

To be honest that seems a bit unfair.

What I see in him is talent. He hasn't been fully utilised in the position he played in for Gremio and as such he hasn't been able to show what he is capable of. His performances against Newcastle, Utd and Chelski last season were nothing short of brilliant.

And your attitude/opinion towards him doesn't exactly help. Confidence plays a huge part in football. It can mean the difference between a simple tap-in or a glaring miss.

Let's not forget he is still very young (22).

In conclusion, he plays for Liverpool. Whether or not you like or dislike him because of his hair or whatever, he wears red, so stop booing and support him like you do for the superstars Torres and Gerrard