Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

You got to look at it from my point of view, I bring up a point with merit and instead of debating it, I have to read through this all in one page.

Not aimed at you Whatawaster, you did debate, fair play.

And I refered to you alongside Andreas Katsulas.
There is no higher honour!

whatawaster

Kingdom wrote: »

Whats the likelihood of Masch starting>?

100% barring injury.

DeadSkin

RAFA: WE'LL MAKE LATE CALL ON SKRTEL

Rafa Benitez will make a late decision on the fitness of centre-back Martin Skrtel ahead of Stoke City's visit to Anfield on Wednesday.
The Slovakia international was substituted in the second half of our 2-1 defeat to Tottenham after an earlier clash of heads with Jamie Carragher.

Benitez told reporters at his pre-match press conference: "We have to wait. Daniel Agger will be out for at least two or three more weeks. Skrtel was training this morning and we will decide tomorrow. Carra is okay."

The Spaniard was quizzed on the fitness of Fernando Torres following his Confederation Cup antics in the summer.

He replied: "The summer has been difficult for some players. The Spanish players and Dossena have been training for maybe 15 days, no more. They want to be fit but it's not easy. Maybe physically they can be more or less ready but then you need match fitness and you need to play games.

"Torres is not tired but match fitness is something you can only get during the season."

Wednesday's opponents Stoke were the only Barclays Premier League side to stop Liverpool scoring last term as they earned two unlikely draws.

The Anfield stalemate proved particularly frustrating after a wrongly-disallowed Steven Gerrard goal.

Benitez knows the tally of seven home draws cost his side last term - but insists our form in L4 was not the only factor in us finishing behind Manchester United.

"Clearly we lost some points but we won a lot of games at the end too," said the boss. "You never know what costs you but one or two draws could have made the difference.

"I think the timing is also important if you draw a game when you could have put pressure on another team.

"But last season, United's game against Aston Villa and the famous penalty against Tottenham, these also made a massive difference."

Asked how he hoped to improve Liverpool's home form, Benitez pointed to the acquisition of attacking full-back Glen Johnson.

The England man won a penalty with a foray forward on Sunday - and the gaffer believes such skills will prove essential in breaking down stubborn opposition.

"We signed Johnson to be more offensive," he said.

Despite proving an irritant, Benitez has respect for the resilience shown by Tony Pulis's newly-promoted Potters in 2008-09.

He said: "They are doing well with the games they've had. The manager is clever; he uses his players really well. They are physical but also well organised. They try to play to their strengths."

Wednesday's game gives Liverpool an opportunity to banish their opening day blues.

Benitez added: "To play at home is always good for us. The first game in front of our fans, and we know about the draws last year. We have to improve, we have to play well, we have to create chances and we have to take our chances - that's it.

"We have to keep possession well and be patient because we will have chances."

Benitez also faced questions regarding transfers.

Asked about newspaper reports linking Albert Riera with a return to Spain, he added: "No, it's not true."

Reporters then quizzed the boss on his attacking options.

"We always talk about Gerrard and Torres who we play as strikers, but we also have Voronin, Babel, Ngog and Kuyt," he replied. "We have enough people. The question is that Torres and Gerrard are key players for us. They normally have to play more games than the others and have to be fit."

Meanwhile, Benitez believes there could be a case for introducing technology into the game to aid referees.

The Reds had two penalty shouts turned away at White Hart Lane on Sunday, while in the Championship Crystal Palace were denied a clear goal against Bristol City.

"Maybe we will need technology in the future," said Benitez. "I was always against it but maybe now we need it. You saw the goal disallowed the other day in the Championship. Maybe it will be necessary in the future."

Kingdom

whatawaster wrote: »

100% barring injury.

Dunno if there's a match thread already, can't see one, so it probably will be:

GJ/Degen----GJ/Ayala----Carra

---

Insua
Kuyt

---

Masch

---

Lucas ----Riera/Yossi

---

Gerrard

---

---

Torres

---

flahavaj

Until they have the likes of Aquilani back to fitness, I think Liverpool should go 4-4-2.

Normal Back four/or whatever Back four is available.(leave Johnson as RB if at all possible for added width.)

Midfield: Kuyt----Masch----Gerrard----Riera

Benayoun playing off Torres up front.

Good team there IMO, certainly against the Stokes of this world should be plenty good enough.

flahavaj

Also did no one think of asking Rafa about the transfer kitty in the press conference?

rossie1977

noodler wrote: »

.....So are you agreeing with me?

yes

noodler

rossie1977 wrote: »

yes

Sorry, wasn't sure.

rossie1977

flahavaj wrote: »

Until they have the likes of Aquilani back to fitness, I think Liverpool should go 4-4-2.

Normal Back four/or whatever Back four is available.(leave Johnson as RB if at all possible for added width.)

Midfield: Kuyt----Masch----Gerrard----Riera

Benayoun playing off Torres up front.

Good team there IMO, certainly against the Stokes of this world should be plenty good enough.

flahavaj i remember you and me having a little debate on gerrards best position a few weeks ago on here and you saying you didn't think gerrard was effective in central midfield and has never proved himself there (or something to those words), so i am a little surprised to see you put gerrard in the middle

personally i think it would be wrong to drop lucas this early, masch-lucas with gerrard further forward was very effective last year at OT, it may not be effective against stoke of course

NabyLadistheman

I don't think it's a great idea pulling Gerrard back out of his best position & into a more central midfield role. Even when this happened on Sunday he was going for the killer pass every time & and this is not very effective.

It's clear his strongest position is bursting into the box & working in tandem with Torres. The 2 of them were some way off match fitness on Sunday but that will come & I expect to see them back to their lethal best shortly

Karmafaerie

Lets not forget that Gerrard is coming off an injury too.

Karmafaerie

Now this is getting confusing!!!

Meanwhile, Benitez has hinted that he could enter into the transfer market before the end of the summer window.

The Reds boss has signed Alberto Aquilani as a replacement for Xabi Alonso, but he still has £10million left from a transfer fee received from Real.

Bilbao defender Fernando Amorebieta has been mentioned as a possible target and Benitez confesses he is keeping his options open.

"I try to see how the market is, and what players are available, just in case," he said.

"You never know if you get injuries or if you have to bring someone in. It also depends on the position (of players) too.

"We are trying to keep working with the scouting department and will see what happens".

Benitez, though, insists reports linking winger Albert Riera with Barcelona are wide of the mark, adding: "No it's not true."

flahavaj

@ rossie: gerrards best position is undoubtedly as an advanced MF/second striker when there is less onus on him to track back etc.

However, in the present situation, with upcoming games that Liverpool really should be winning (indeed games they didn't win last year) such as against a packed Stoke defence, I think they can easily afford to play him as a conventional central midfielder bombing forward. Especially when they have the option of Yossi to play as a withdrawn forward,a guy who's probably their best bet for finding a pass of bit of skill to unlock a crowded defence.

Its not a long term solution, but IMOits the best use of the talent they have at their disposal in the current circumstances and in no way means I have altered my stance on Gerrard in any way.

event

Boggles wrote: »

Any video of the Skrtel / Carra clash?

http://www.footytube.com/video/tottenham-hotspur-v-liverpool-19714

40 seconds in

Stargate

How far off fitness is Riera ?

prendy

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Now this is getting confusing!!!

karma whats the source? i hope to fowler that Rafa has at least 10m left? one decent attacking option please!

Stargate

event wrote: »

http://www.footytube.com/video/tottenham-hotspur-v-liverpool-19714

40 seconds in

Having seen it again i think its keane running back towards Reine and jamie DID have a quik look ,he should have left it to Skrtel to clear , Jamie`s getting slower and trying to overcompensate by trying to get to everything , even when its not possible , just a thought .

event

it depends on who called it first, no way we can say who is at fault if anyone
whoever called it first should have been left to it

D'Agger

prendy wrote: »

karma whats the source? i hope to fowler that Rafa has at least 10m left? one decent attacking option please!

Rafa won't spend it on an attacking option when Aggers out for another 3weeks according to football365.com and Skrtel not in the best of shape. We do need something upfront - I'd agree, I really would like to see Pacheco given a run - he's surely better than Voronin even if he is about 10stone lighter than him! Pacheco worked well with Kuyt & Benny pre-season so if you have those two on the wing he could be sensational behind Torres - only however if we're forced to pull Gerrard back for some reason. The fact Pacheco wasn't on the bench the other day annoyed me!

Mr Alan

we could get Tuncay & Distin in for about 10m & finish this window with a net spend of about 1 or 2 million & an improved squad when compared to last year, but we can't even afford to do that. that really ****ing depresses me

the last two years, we must be among the lowest net spend in the PL (zero last year, on course for a profit this year), yet we expect the team to continue to improve & win the league. w

ats our net spend per year since Rafas arrival? about 15m at the minute unless I'm mistaken, yet somehow we are improving all the time & now feel we can challenge for the league & CL. last year we came so close, but now i'm afraid our ****ing owners are not allowing us to make any investments to improve the team. shocking shocking shocking state of affairs.

i truely hope that Rafa has a few quid stored away & is allowing these stories out in the public to allow him to get more value in the market, but i am not convinced at all.

event

i wonder is shawcross being looked at?

james collins could be on the way to stoke, 3.5 mil fee agreed according to bbc

would be a very good back up signing, could eventually take over from carragher

Mr Alan

Pacheco isn't ready yet imo, Voronin is a far better option to have at the moment. He has experience, good vision & a good touch. Shame about the stupid hair, i'm convinced thats the reason for 50% of the abuse he gets.

Mr Alan

event wrote: »

i wonder is shawcross being looked at?

james collins could be on the way to stoke, 3.5 mil fee agreed according to bbc

would be a very good back up signing, could eventually take over from carragher

just saw that alright.

hopefully, but as above, i'm not hopeful.

D'Agger

Mr Alan wrote: »

Pacheco isn't ready yet imo, Voronin is a far better option to have at the moment. He has experience, good vision & a good touch. Shame about the stupid hair, i'm convinced thats the reason for 50% of the abuse he gets.

His touch is good yes but his vision? not a hope, by the time he spots opening the run has been made - I think he's too far behind the pace of the prem tbh - German league suits him better

Dirk Gently

prendy wrote: »

i hope to fowler that Rafa has at least 10m left?

is this 10 mill left over after the club has paid wages for contract extensions or before?

dannydiamond

event wrote: »

it depends on who called it first, no way we can say who is at fault if anyone
whoever called it first should have been left to it

Of course, but these things happen in the heat of battle so to speak.

On watching the replay during the game, I noticed how badly beaten to the ball Carragher was.:)

dannydiamond

Rumblings of Rafa interested in Stephen Taylor from Newcastle. Thoughts?

zing

event wrote: »

i wonder is shawcross being looked at?

We apparently sent people to look at him at the weekend. However that could just have been a bit of mind games with Stoke/the player ahead of our game with them.

Sherifu

event wrote: »

http://www.footytube.com/video/tottenham-hotspur-v-liverpool-19714

40 seconds in

Stargate wrote: »

Having seen it again i think its keane running back towards Reine and jamie DID have a quik look ,he should have left it to Skrtel to clear , Jamie`s getting slower and trying to overcompensate by trying to get to everything , even when its not possible , just a thought .

Carra clearly has a look before committing himself to it. Deffo should have left it.

Pyjamarama

An honest assessment of where we seem to stand...

Having taken a few days to get over the in truth awful performance and
had a chance to watch the match again I would be lying if i said i
didn't have some serious concerns about this season.

Starting at the back, Reina was immense. Pool fans know how good he is
but it beggars belief that some fans from other clubs can't see him
for what he is and that's the best keeper in the league by some
distance. the back four looked steady enough but I've felt for a while
(and have previously voiced it on here) that Carragher's best days are
certainly beyond him. The guy is a legend in my eyes but we need
someone who can do something other than just hoof it. I can understand
that maybe the options weren't there in front of him on Saturday but
this is a recurring theme for the past 2 years and imo it seriously
limits us. Any team playing a decent defensive midfielder will just
swallow up any knockdowns Nando or Stevie can come up with from his
hoofs. Agger and Skittles starting at centerhalf when available please
Rafa!

We defo need some cover at centerhalf. I've seen enough of Kelly in
preseason and on good old LFCTV last year to be confident that the guy
can do a job if needed at rightback but Johnson is a young and strong
so hopefully it won't be an issue. Ayala on the other hand is not
ready for the first team. Even a guy like Sol would be a good signing.

I don't subscribe to the doom and gloom merchants about our midfield
issues. I think we have a solid core of players there and wouldn't be
devastated to see Plessis come in for the rare games Masch isn't
available for. Lucas played quite well on Sunday but he needs to get
his head up a little more. This will come with confidence if he gets a
nice run in the team. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Aurelio start
the odd game in the middle of the park. The lad is a wonderful passer
of the ball and he's played there once or twice for us before. It
would be interesting to see if he has the vision needed to play there
though. The people that think Aqualina is a bad buy just because he's
gonna miss the first few games are definitely not looking at the big
picture at all. The guy is an undoubted talent and i think he'll be a
huge success for us. A midfielder capable of picking up the ball and
taking on the opposition will do wonders for our options allowing
Stevie, Dirk and Yossi/Riera a lot more space.

Ryan Babel should never start for Liverpool ever! The guy is muck. He
has talent but he's a headless chicken and i don't think his touch is
even close to good enough. I'll put my hand up and say that i was not
overly enamoured with Yossi when he arrived but the guy has proven me
wrong. I think an attacking midfield trio of Yossi, Stevie and Dirk
would be a very strong base and i would be shocked if that's not the
way we go from here, although i would expect Reira if he stays to
rotate a fair bit with Yossi. Maybe for games where strength and pace
is required Albert will be the choice.

Up front outside of Nando it's no secret that we're not that strong.
I'm actually a bit of a fan of Voronin and think he does a job but I'd
love us to sign someone like Tuncay or even a guy like Benjani. I
don't think Benjani is that good but he'd certainly be a solid option
off the bench. He's big and strong and has proven before that he has
the ability. I'd imagine he'd be available on the cheap aswell... We
need some options and while i think Pacheo is going to be a star there
is now way the lad is physically ready for the premiership yet... Ngog
is probably physically ready but i have my doubts about his actual
ability. Seems a bit of a Cisse to me. Often runs with his head down
when he should be looking to see what the best option is. Strikes me
as similar to Babel in that they are dominant players while growing
and developing at underage level where athleticism can mask technical
frailties but when they move up to the seniors they just don't have
what it takes.

All in all despite the shocking performance this is a team and a squad
capable of challenging. I wasn't overly impressed with United or
Chelsea and to be honest if either had performed that way away to
spurs i think they would have been going home empty handed as well.
Spurs will be tough to beat at White Hart Lane this season but I'd be
surprised if their away form doesn't stop them making the jump into
the top 4. Arsenal were superb but they can always play like that. It
will be interesting to see if they can keep their heads as i reckon
talent wise they match up with anyone.

ChumpStain

Just watched the Spurs match there, it's seems what you lacked was someone like Palacios. I reckon Rafa should've held off on Aquilani till Jan to see if he'd be right after his surgery and proved his fitness. Then maybe gambled on Cattermole(only cost 6m) in the mean time? He had a good debut for Sunderland and he was committed and assured and I thought Lucas lacked in that dept. Just thinking he might have filled a gap until at least Jan and provide decent backup after that. What do pool fans reckon?

Bandit12

ChumpStain wrote: »

Just watched the Spurs match there, it's seems what you lacked was someone like Palacios. I reckon Rafa should've held off on Aquilani till Jan to see if he'd be right after his surgery and proved his fitness. Then maybe gambled on Cattermole(only cost 6m) in the mean time? He had a good debut for Sunderland and he was committed and assured and I thought Lucas lacked in that dept. Just thinking he might have filled a gap until at least Jan and provide decent backup after that. What do pool fans reckon?

So that's what it's come to...Lee Cattermole I give in.

joe123

Bandit12 wrote: »

So that's what it's come to...Lee Cattermole I give in.

Lee Cattermole - Lucas
Tomatoe-tomato

*runs away and hides from the lucas brigrade*

Mr Velo

I know that pre-season means shag all at the end of the day, but reservations about how we would fare this season certainly started with our pre-season.
We were really poor and it's continued into the league season by the looks of it.

The yanks have really fudged us up - soaking up the cash which Rafa has gotten in to pay off their loan. Rafa walked for something like this while at Valencia did he not? Cannot believe he would have signed the new contract if he hadn't been promised the cash to spend.... they've obviously reneged on this.... those ba*****s!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Karmafaerie

prendy wrote: »

karma whats the source? i hope to fowler that Rafa has at least 10m left? one decent attacking option please!

I got that off another forum.

I've seen the press conference since, and that's a little misleading.
All Benitez really says is that his scouts are always on the lookout, cause who knows what'll happen in football.

joe123

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I got that off another forum.

I've seen the press conference since, and that's a little misleading.
All Benitez really says is that his scouts are always on the lookout, cause who knows what'll happen in football.

Reports on sky saying we had 1.5 million left. To be honest I think we have next to nothing left as we would have players signed at this stage if we did.

AndyP

whatawaster wrote: »

If you want to finish way down the table, why not?



They must have oversold the fekin ground because there were little or no empty seats in the stand we were in (connacht st?) and loads of people standing, so we ended up having to sit on a step watching the game listening to idiots in Liverpool jersey’s shouting racist abuse at some of our players. Sickening to be honest.

Didn't hear any racist abuse in the connaught stand, the one bloke constantly referred to our full back as 'Bambi' throughout the second half, due to the fact that he couldn't stay on his feet but that was as bad as I heard.

Karmafaerie

joe123 wrote: »

Lee Cattermole - Lucas
Tomatoe-tomato

*runs away and hides from the lucas brigrade*

Even if that was that case, which IMO it's not, WE ALREADY OWN LUCAS' CONTACT!!!:rolleyes:

When we have no money, buying Catterlmole = not an option, when you yourself even admit he's no better than what we already have.

Bandit12

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

I know that pre-season means shag all at the end of the day, but reservations about how we would fare this season certainly started with our pre-season.
We were really poor and it's continued into the league season by the looks of it.

The yanks have really fudged us up - soaking up the cash which Rafa has gotten in to pay off their loan. Rafa walked for something like this while at Valencia did he not? Cannot believe he would have signed the new contract if he hadn't been promised the cash to spend.... they've obviously reneged on this.... those ba*****s!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I also noticed in pre-season the players lack of urgency (Torres anyone) and an apathy towards the games. Put this down to pre-season mickey mouse games but after Sunday's performance i'm beginning to get a little worried. Just a thought here....I wonder if the players have picked up on the whole "no money to spend" situation and it's beginning to affect them? If so it's worrying as well as unprofessional from the team.

At the end of the day the likes of Torres and Gerrard are only human and if they see no money available to improve the squad i wonder what their next move will be. Let's face it it's possible that Hicks and Gillete will cash in on either player to finance the debt if the opportunity arised. Just look what's happening at Manchester United, (selling players to reduce debt).

mike65

Anyone posted about Sotirios Kyrgiakos? AEK Athens CB it appears we're in for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sotirios_Kyrgiakos

http://www.kyrgiakos.gr/en/default.asp

Oh yeah Voronin back to HB and Ngog on loan to Sheffield Wednesday.

Chardee MacDennis

mike65 wrote: »

Oh yeah Voronin back to HB and Ngog on loan to Sheffield Wednesday.

Babel to play as striker and never on the wing again? I could take that, but it still leaves us f*cked up front with just Torres, Babel & Nemeth...

Eire-Dearg

We must be getting someone in up front then. Someone cheap and ****e, no doubt.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

wats our net spend per year since Rafas arrival? about 15m at the minute unless I'm mistaken, yet somehow we are improving all the time & now feel we can challenge for the league & CL. last year we came so close, but now i'm afraid our ****ing owners are not allowing us to make any investments to improve the team. shocking shocking shocking state of affairs.

Only Chelsea and City have a higher net spend over that period.

5starpool

The Muppet wrote: »

Only Chelsea and City have a higher net spend over that period.

Not if you put the cut off before utd binked 80m for ronaldo.

The Muppet

5starpool wrote: »

Not if you put the cut off before utd binked 80m for ronaldo.

Not true , Take Ronaldo out of it and it's still the same top spenders, Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool in that order.

daithijjj

Would love to see babel get a few runs up front. Think hes i different man up there to be honest. Played on his own up there at chelsea last season for 20 mins and did very well, also played some time against united up front on his own at OT.

Dont think his position on the left is comfortable with him. Havent given up on him either. I think he could be a surprise package up there if voronin goes. Babel has the strength to hold the ball up which voronin does not imo.

I wonder if rafa would consider a spanish national team formation, a 4141. With gerrard and benny advanced in the centre of mascherano. I think with two more attacking midfielders in gerrard and benny it would help out kuyt and babel/riera. Babel had 4 spurs players on him at one point at the weekend and they could afford to have that many to be honest in the first half......we needed more attacking thinking from midfield to give spurs something to think about.

From what i saw v spurs, might be worth a try with benny in the alonso role either. Ive defended lucas on here but the fact is, he isnt up to the pace of the prem just yet and doesnt make it obvious that he wants the ball and i think benny wouldnt shirk from that responsibility. To be honest, bennyoun should be starting games.

Quick point on carras 'challenge' on skyrtel. Carra was a retard to go for that ball. The sooner benitez gives agger a run of games the better imo. Agger is gifted with the ball at his feet and carra most certainly is not. Aggers ball carrying skills from defence could help out the team as a whole alot more than people think imo. Dont think ive seen carra win a header from one of our corners in years either. I like carra but hes a mere amateur compared to what sami hyypia could do in his time.

rossie1977

The Muppet wrote: »

Not true , Take Ronaldo out of it and it's still the same top spenders, Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool in that order.

nope it was city, chelsea, utd, liverpool in that order

numerous websites wrongly put down the purchase of Djibril Cisse as part of rafas spending

_blank_

daithijjj wrote: »

Quick point on carras 'challenge' on skyrtel. Carra was a retard to go for that ball. The sooner benitez gives agger a run of games the better imo. Agger is gifted with the ball at his feet and carra most certainly is not. Aggers ball carrying skills from defence could help out the team as a whole alot more than people think imo. Dont think ive seen carra win a header from one of our corners in years either. I like carra but hes a mere amateur compared to what sami hyypia could do in his time.

Great point, with Carragher/Skrtl the defence is really unbalanced with two "fighter" centre halfs (Vidic, Terry), Liverpool don't have a ball playing CH (Rio, Carvalho). It takes a hell of a lot of pressure off the midfield, especially one without a playmaker like Alonso, if a CH is prepared to come forward with the ball and distribute from the same kind of position as a deep lying midfielder.

It's part of the reason why United's glaring hole in midfield hasn't been very much of an issue for them, sure, they came a cropper in the CL Final, but they got there, and won the league last season with a sub-par centre midfield.

This is partly down to Ferdinand being very good on the ball, and coming forward with it at feet.

joe123

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/08/18/brazilian-lucas-issues-warning-to-liverpool-fc-s-title-dream-92534-24463412/3/

Benitez said: “Ryan was trying to do well. We decided to use him because Yossi had a problem with a (bruised) rib and during the week he was not training.

Not sure if that was posted or not. So yossi would of started if fit.


Wheres everyone getting this info about Voronin heading to hertha and Ngog going out on loan??

daithijjj

Des wrote: »

Great point, with Carragher/Skrtl the defence is really unbalanced with two "fighter" centre halfs (Vidic, Terry), Liverpool don't have a ball playing CH (Rio, Carvalho). It takes a hell of a lot of pressure off the midfield, especially one without a playmaker like Alonso, if a CH is prepared to come forward with the ball and distribute from the same kind of position as a deep lying midfielder.

It's part of the reason why United's glaring hole in midfield hasn't been very much of an issue for them, sure, they came a cropper in the CL Final, but they got there, and won the league last season with a sub-par centre midfield.

This is partly down to Ferdinand being very good on the ball, and coming forward with it at feet.

Exactly des. Carra gets a nosebleed after 2 touches of the ball. I dont know if people recall but agger was out for a full 12 months and came back at home last season and committed a shocker early in the game to gift wigan a goal at anfield. Barely minutes later he was carrying the ball from his own half playing a one/two with riera i think and went into the wigan box laying it on for kuyt to score. Not in a million years would carra dream of such an act.