Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

TheTosh

stumpypeeps wrote: »

For the circumstances we are currently in, he would not be a sensible choice.

Name one German coach who has managed with success in England, Spain or Italy?

Bernd Schuster did brilliant with Getafe a few years back

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

For the circumstances we are currently in, he would not be a sensible choice.

Name one German coach who has managed with success in England, Spain or Italy?

Not a sensible choice? Great track record, speaks the language and will be free to join any club this summer. The man has experience of taking over at a club that was on top, and has also the experience of taking over at clubs where the team was languising in mid table which had financial and boardroom problems. He has won league titles and the CL with both the team that was on top when he took over and the team that was in mid table team
when he took over.

Your german coach arguement is worthless. Going by that logic we should never have hired Rafa in the first place as name one Spanish coach who had major success in England before him?


Ok then name me a coach that you would like to see come in,who is available this summer, with a better track record than Hitzfeld who was also a major success is either England, Spain, or Italy. Name me the manager that is your choice that has a better record and would be a better fit in your honest opinion.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Touche.

In Scotland Bertie Vogts did poorly, Bernd Schuster was poor last time out at Real Madrid. Not too many German managers with a track record of success. Hitzfel aside. And he has never managed outside of a german speaking country.

Anyway, he's not in the running by all accounts.

So you think language would be a barrier? For a fluent English speaker?

As I said, stupid line of argument tbh.

Using a manager's nationality as a criterion upon which to not consider him as a manager is ridiculous, especially when at the same time choosing to ignore proper criteria such as European and domestic success, tactical acumen and big club experience.

Glico Man

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Touche.

In Scotland Bertie Vogts did poorly, Bernd Schuster was poor last time out at Real Madrid. Not too many German managers with a track record of success. Hitzfel aside. And he has never managed outside of a german speaking country.

Anyway, he's not in the running by all accounts.

Schuster won the league and cup double with Real in his first season

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

It feels like this thread got dropped on its head at birth some days.

Is there a shred of evidence to link Hitzfeld with LFC? Nope so why even mention him. If he were being considered he'd have to be the No 1 choice but he's not.

With regard to Hodgson it has to be borne in mind that his job target would be very different to Rafas, it won't be win the league or the European Cup it'll be steady the ship and look to return to the top four. Nothing else really, even a decent Europa League run would be a distant second in the list of things to do.

Nobody else has been officially linked either. Hitzfeld is on record, before Rafa left, as saying that he wants to return to club football this summer though, and that Germany or England would be his preferences.

On that basis he is as valid a choice to speculate about as the likes of O'Neill.

noodler

101001

MementoMori wrote: »

Seeing as there's so much talk about Roy, I felt it was worth posting this article again. Sounds like a more defensive, more organised version of Rafa with the emphasis strongly on not getting beaten. Really cant see any team ever winning the league with these type of tactics.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/apr/27/the-question-fulham-roy-hodgson

In fairness to roy though... If you were the manger of fulham with that group of players how would you play the game? You see that a lot with mid table teams just stop the big teams. To a point thats all they can hope to do. I wonder how he would manage a team with a better standard of player.... would he be more adventurous?

Kess73

aaronh007 wrote: »

Schuster won the league and cup double with Real in his first season

Yeah but that probably does not count :rolleyes:

kippy

Some of the arguments in here are laughable.
Seriously, RH is the ideal manager for Liverpool at this point in time.
He has ALL the skills that are required at a club coming off the back of an exceptionally dissappointing season and who have exceptionally limited funding in the transfer market.
Some of the best managers in the the world managed at "small" clubs with some success before managing the clubs they have become famous for managing . Some managers did not even manage before managing at the current club they are very successful managers at.
Some of these "big names" have also very limited success and in certain niche areas.
RH has had varying degrees of success managaing varying players and clubs in many varying circunstances. I really don't know whats to fear about taking him on..........The next manager, no matter who is, is always going to be critical and a risk in the history of LFC. I see no better man for the job that RH.

stumpypeeps

Yes yes, ok, nationality is a baseless argument, fair enough. Point dropped.

What is apparent is that he is not in the running. Nor won't be. So why don't we all drop his name from consideration.

stumpypeeps

101001 wrote: »

Chelsea shouldnt have brought in ancellotti either

In fairness Vialli did alright with Chelsea.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Touche.

In Scotland Bertie Vogts did poorly, Bernd Schuster was poor last time out at Real Madrid. Not too many German managers with a track record of success. Hitzfel aside. And he has never managed outside of a german speaking country.
Anyway, he's not in the running by all accounts.

You do realise that Hitzfeld's english is more fluent than his german? He was not a native speaker of german anbd had to learn it when he took over at Dortmund. He is speaking english for decades longer than he has spoken true german.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Yes yes, ok, nationality is a baseless argument, fair enough. Point dropped.

What is apparent is that he is not in the running. Nor won't be. So why don't we all drop his name from consideration.

He wouldn't still be being discussed if it wasn't for your factually inaccurate deriding of his skills as a coach! No one has said he's in the running, they've just said he's the best option to take over from Rafa.

Ush1

noodler wrote: »

Matt Damon.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

He wouldn't still be being discussed if it wasn't for your factually inaccurate deriding of his skills as a coach! No one has said he's in the running, they've just said he's the best option to take over from Rafa.

No he's not.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Yes yes, ok, nationality is a baseless argument, fair enough. Point dropped.

What is apparent is that he is not in the running. Nor won't be. So why don't we all drop his name from consideration.

How do you know he is not in the running though? None of us know exactly who is, and all we are going by is media speculation.

Hitzfeld is available this summer, would cost nothing in compensation as he will be a free agent, and he has expressed an interest in managing in England.

Based on that, it is not improbable to suggest that he could have an interest in the job.

Plus he is/was a massive Celtic fan so maybe the Dalglish factor could come into it should an approach be made.


Of course we could just keep talking about O'Neill or Roy despite neither being officially in the running either.:rolleyes:

MementoMori

101001 wrote: »

In fairness to roy though... If you were the manger of fulham with that group of players how would you play the game? You see that a lot with mid table teams just stop the big teams. To a point thats all they can hope to do. I wonder how he would manage a team with a better standard of player.... would he be more adventurous?

No I just can't see him being any more adventurous with a better standard of players. He's going to stick with what he knows and what has worked for him in the past - the emphasis will be on defend defend defend

I can also forsee problems with the squad willing to take his methods on board. In the article it was hinted at that at Fulham some of the players didn't take to his approach initially but that when he saved them from relegation they got on board. Find it hard to see the squad all jumping on board with this approach.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

No he's not.

Who is then? I am still waiting for your better choice.

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

You do realise that Hitzfeld's english is more fluent than his german? He was not a native speaker of german anbd had to learn it when he took over at Dortmund. He is speaking english for decades longer than he has spoken true german.

Great. Thats fantastic. Still won't understand Stevie G or Carra though.

101001

stumpypeeps wrote: »

What is apparent is that he is not in the running. Nor won't be. So why don't we all drop his name from consideration.

TBH I'm hoping that he is in contention. Broughton made the point of couple of months ago that if you hear that someone is in contention to buy liverpool that chances are they are not. That we wouldn't hear who was buying until the deal was almost done.

I'm kinda hoping this is the case... Delussional I know, we're simply looking for a caretaker manager. The most humourous part of all this is that G&H have devalued the club by ridding themselves of rafa... basically paying for an asset to be taken away

noodler

Are Ballack and Cole available on frees?

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

Who is then? I am still waiting for your better choice.

Dalglish or Hodgson. I'd probably give it to Dalglish.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Great. Thats fantastic. Still won't understand Stevie G or Carra though.

Its obvious then that theres only one man up to the job:

MementoMori

noodler wrote: »

Are Ballack and Cole available on frees?

Yup - both will probably be signed on frees when we sell Gerrard and Masch for £60m .:(

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Great. Thats fantastic. Still won't understand Stevie G or Carra though.

Newsflash for you, if understanding a thick scouse accent is the main thing for the role, then it rules out pretty much any foreign manager and most English managers too.


So .

joe123

noodler wrote: »

Are Ballack and Cole available on frees?

Yep. Not gone on Ballack at all anymore but Joe Cole would be a great signing but just cant seem him joining us when you will have Arsenal,Utd and even Spurs going for him.

Another player who would be a great signing on a free is Martin Petrov who just got released from City.

bijapos

Kess73 wrote: »

You do realise that Hitzfeld's english is more fluent than his german? He was not a native speaker of german anbd had to learn it when he took over at Dortmund. He is speaking english for decades longer than he has spoken true german.

Eehhhhhh... I think Hitzfeld would be interested to hear that.

German is his first language, he probably grew up speaking a bit of dialect but he speaks Hochdeutsch, the equivalent of 'BBC English'.

noodler

joe123 wrote: »

Yep. Not gone on Ballack at all anymore but Joe Cole would be a great signing but just cant seem him joining us when you will have Arsenal,Utd and even Spurs going for him.

Another player who would be a great signing on a free is Martin Petrov who just got released from City.

Christ, maybe its the PRO EVO Master League in my but we should be in the hunt for at least two of those alright.

Ballack would be overkill but if we lose Masch or Gerrard I imagine another body in midfield would be useful.

Dont be at yourself

I'd be over the moon if Kenny gets the job, at least on a caretaker basis. He deserves another crack of the whip, his record is fantastic.

101001

MementoMori wrote: »

I can also forsee problems with the squad willing to take his methods on board. In the article it was hinted at that at Fulham some of the players didn't take to his approach initially but that when he saved them from relegation they got on board. Find it hard to see the squad all jumping on board with this approach.

I kinda have that feeling myself that he will stick to what he knows. His defensive approach could alienate squad members... That is especially a problem now as it's a perfect opportunity for players to jump ship. I reckon though that any manager that takes the job will face that problem. I really can't get behind thr Dalglish as manager.... I can't see it going well

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

Newsflash for you, if understanding a thick scouse accent is the main thing for the role, then it rules out pretty much any foreign manager and most English managers too.


So .

What are you jabbering on about?:P

PHB

Daglish only ever left Liverpool because of a desire to stay out of football, but the bug caught him. He's still got the skills I'm sure, although they'd be rusty with being out of management for so long, and the game has no doubt changed in the last 10 years significantly.

I would think he'd be a good choice though in this situation. Why? He costs no money, and you could negotiate it so that he wouldnt cost anything to fire. This is particular important in light of the possibility of a new owner. If they came in, and had lots of money, you should be able to attract a higher calibre of manager than you are at present. If there is a bit of flexibility, you can do that. If you sign Hodgson, it could easily be a 3-4 year contract.

tinner777

Either way massive risk for anyone who takes it given that a new owner might give you the boot on taking over.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish or Hodgson. I'd probably give it to Dalglish.

On what grounds?


I said why I thought Hitzfeld would be right for the role.

Tell me why Dalglish would be right for the role. Tell me how you think he would do with a small budget? Tell me how you think he would fare tactically in Europe given his lack of experience at managing at that level?

Granted he could be hired without paying compensation to another club, and he would be a great figurehead manager. But show me something to suggest that he could match the likes of Hitzfeld, Mourinho etc in Europe? Show me something that shows he knows how to take a below par team back to a challenging level without big funds behind him? Show me that he has not been let go from the last two clubs he managed and that he was not let go by Blackburn by "mutual consent", or the way he burned his bridges at another club where he was a legend by getting into a legal battle with Celtic and also when he did similar to what he is alledged to have done now at Liverpool, and that is offer himself as a replacement manager over another choice.

I love Kenny, but I think he would only tarnish his reputation at the club if he were to become manager again, and if he tarnished his reputation it would mean the team was doing badly and pushing us further back.



As for Roy. I would be fine with him as a stop gap. Maybe for twelve months to steady the ship until the manager that was wanted became available.

bijapos

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/09/joe-cole-redknapp-tottenham-chelsea

Seems Redknapp has his eye on Cole.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

What are you jabbering on about?:P

You were the one trying to make out that the scouse accent would be an issue.

Splainc

bijapos wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/09/joe-cole-redknapp-tottenham-chelsea

Seems Redknapp has his eye on Cole.

Harry already said he tried but that he feels Joe had already signed elsewhere

Kess73

bijapos wrote: »

Eehhhhhh... I think Hitzfeld would be interested to hear that.

German is his first language, he probably grew up speaking a bit of dialect but he speaks Hochdeutsch, the equivalent of 'BBC English'.

Alemannic German, Alemannisch, is his first language not Hochdeutsch, high or standard german. Listen to the man speak and it becomes very clear what language he uses, or listen to his old interviews when he was a Dortmund and still struggling with Hochdeutsch.


When he managed in Germany he was not viewed as a full German due to the dialect he spoke in.

SlickRic

it's an inditement on the situation we're in, that Dalglish is considered a serious contender at this point in time.

i want to cry.

_blank_

I think people need to realise one thing.

The club is in turmoil, is in the process of looking for a buyer, what it needs is a manager who will work on a rolling contract (O'Neill, Hodgson) at least until a new owner takes the reigns and goes about putting his mark on the club.

What if they appoint a manager who's looking for a 3 year deal. This will mean that any new owner will have to factor this in when negotiating the deal. "Do I want this manager? How much will it cost to get rid of him if I want to bring in someone else? Can I, as owner of Liverpool, just sack a manager because I don't fancy him?" All of these questions will be there.

Now, appointing someone on a rolling contract this summer is the sensible thing to do. If he does a decent job next season, any new owner could look at the situation and say, "Yep, I'll keep him on, he's doing ok, the players like him, he has good ideas for stabilising the club" OR "Hmm, not looking good with this guy, and it'll only cost me six months wages to let him go now and bring in whoever I want and let him get down to business".

I don't think the very best managers out there work on rolling contracts, and it's silly to expect them to, imo. What Liverpool need at the moment is a stop-gap with possibilities of a medium-long term future. I don't think Kenny Dalglish fits that bill. He does fit the bill of a caretaker though, which is not what Liverpool needs.

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

On what grounds?


I said why I thought Hitzfeld would be right for the role.

Tell me why Dalglish would be right for the role. Tell me how you think he would do with a small budget? Tell me how you think he would fare tactically in Europe given his lack of experience at managing at that level?

Granted he could be hired without paying compensation to another club, and he would be a great figurehead manager. But show me something to suggest that he could match the likes of Hitzfeld, Mourinho etc in Europe? Show me something that shows he knows how to take a below par team back to a challenging level without big funds behind him? Show me that he has not been let go from the last two clubs he managed and that he was not let go by Blackburn by "mutual consent", or the way he burned his bridges at another club where he was a legend by getting into a legal battle with Celtic and also when he did similar to what he is alledged to have done now at Liverpool, and that is offer himself as a replacement manager over another choice.

I love Kenny, but I think he would only tarnish his reputation at the club if he were to become manager again, and if he tarnished his reputation it would mean the team was doing badly and pushing us further back.



As for Roy. I would be fine with him as a stop gap. Maybe for twelve months to steady the ship until the manager that was wanted became available.

Dalglish first became Liverpool manager in the days after the Heysel disaster in 1985, when he took over from Joe Fagan. The Scot, who had signed from Celtic as a player for £440,000 in 1977 and won seven league titles, three European Cups and five domestic trophies at Anfield, secured the Double in his first season in charge and during his six-year spell won two more titles and the FA Cup in 1989, following the Hillsborough disaster. He returned to the game with Blackburn in late 1991 and took them from the second tier to become Premier League champions in 1995 and also had a short period at Newcastle, steering them to a second-place finish and the 1998 FA Cup final.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish first became Liverpool manager in the days after the Heysel disaster in 1985, when he took over from Joe Fagan. The Scot, who had signed from Celtic as a player for £440,000 in 1977 and won seven league titles, three European Cups and five domestic trophies at Anfield, secured the Double in his first season in charge and during his six-year spell won two more titles and the FA Cup in 1989, following the Hillsborough disaster. He returned to the game with Blackburn in late 1991 and took them from the second tier to become Premier League champions in 1995 and also had a short period at Newcastle, steering them to a second-place finish and the 1998 FA Cup final.

And the next twelve years?

What about the lack of experience at European level, is that not a worry?

Do you think that he would be tactically astute enough to compensate quickly for any changes in the game since he last managed at a high level?

Do you think he could be anything other than a stop gap?


For me all would be a worry if he was appointed as anything other than a stop gap.


If you are unable to answer or form your own opinion, fell free to copy a paragraph elsewhere and paste it here as your opinion and reply just as you did above.

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

And the next twelve years?

What about the lack of experience at European level, is that not a worry?

Do you think that he would be tactically astute enough to compensate quickly for any changes in the game since he last managed at a high level?

Do you think he could be anything other than a stop gap?


For me all would be a worry if he was appointed as anything other than a stop gap.


If you are unable to answer or form your own opinion, fell free to copy a paragraph elsewhere and paste it here as your opinion and reply just as you did above.

European experience, not an issue right now.

Tactically astute enough? The most intelligent player ever to have played for Liverpool. Developed Liverpool into a wonderful attacking team. Attacking football would be nice no?

He'd be an interim manager for sure. Barring he proved really successful.

Thats what we need right now unfortunately.

daithijjj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish first became Liverpool manager in the days after the Heysel disaster in 1985, when he took over from Joe Fagan. The Scot, who had signed from Celtic as a player for £440,000 in 1977 and won seven league titles, three European Cups and five domestic trophies at Anfield, secured the Double in his first season in charge and during his six-year spell won two more titles and the FA Cup in 1989, following the Hillsborough disaster. He returned to the game with Blackburn in late 1991 and took them from the second tier to become Premier League champions in 1995 and also had a short period at Newcastle, steering them to a second-place finish and the 1998 FA Cup final.

When did you start writing for the guardian? :P;)

In all seriousness, i want kenny to live a long and happy life as a great ambasador for the club. The managers hotseat is not the place for him, it would end in tears allthough i have no problem with him doing the job on a month to month until the club is sold.

argosy2006

If Steven Carra and Torres have an input in to next manager ,which rumor says they do, then Hodgson would hardly be their choice ahead of Kenny,
if Kenny is next manager they might actually stay and play for him,
if roy is next manager i see Steve and Torres leaving, and if they leave and 100 million plus is got for them, then new buyers will be less keen to pay the 600-800 million for club, considering two huge assets have left,
Torres and Steven turn millions between them in merchandise .
Also new owner if and when he is found, will be mega rich, will have to be to buy club in first place,
so can see us been up there with Man City ,Because it will take a multi billionaire to buy us, A billionaire is not going to blow all his money on liverpool,
So its either no new owner ,or one that will shoot us up to where we should be, Cant see a new owner buying club so it can be mid table with no champions league football,
Hopefully a insanely Rich buyer comes along,

TheTosh

Do Liverpool really need a manager with a good track record in europe at the moment, surely league position is more important then the Europa League

spockety

Nobody here has a fookin clue what Liverpool actually need right now.

For all we know there are potentially very serious buyers lined up and it is they who are currently dictating what is happening etc.

Kenny Dalglish may fit the bill perfectly. We may be looking for a manager to take over for 2 weeks, we may be looking for a manager to take over for 2 years, nobody here knows.

I think unless you're armed with the information on the current goings on deep within the club, it's impossible to say which manager that is available is the most suited to our needs.

event

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish first became Liverpool manager in the days after the Heysel disaster in 1985, when he took over from Joe Fagan. The Scot, who had signed from Celtic as a player for £440,000 in 1977 and won seven league titles, three European Cups and five domestic trophies at Anfield, secured the Double in his first season in charge and during his six-year spell won two more titles and the FA Cup in 1989, following the Hillsborough disaster. He returned to the game with Blackburn in late 1991 and took them from the second tier to become Premier League champions in 1995 and also had a short period at Newcastle, steering them to a second-place finish and the 1998 FA Cup final.

ah, so you read the guardian too

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/09/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-rafael-benitez

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Dalglish or Hodgson. I'd probably give it to Dalglish.

why would you rather Daglish over hitzfeld?

Chardee MacDennis

Inter to offer £33m for Dirk and Masch? dont have the link here, but it seems a bit low....

also football 365 going with the Kenny Dalglish wanting to take over story...

stumpypeeps

My basic view is that Liverpool need to appoint someone who can keep the Gerrard and Torres on board. I Have no doubt that both had some say in Benitez leaving. Appointing Dalglish would appease Gerrard and may go some way to appeasing Torres.

I think its highly unlikely that Liverpool will appoint Hitzfeld, Riijkaard, Hiddink etc...So rather than delude myself with names like this I am considering the merits of Dalglish or Hodgson.