Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

The Muppet

Kudos to Rafa with the donation, It's a nice gesture.

Peyton Manning

I'm sure the people who the money will help don't give a toss why he donated it, they'll just be delighted regardless. Fair play to him.

LuckyLloyd

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'd also suggest that Carragher and Gerrard when asked who they believe could succeed Benitez Hodgson would have been their choice. Both would want to work with an English manager.

Gerrard was very eager to work with one last time out. Curbishly. I know I know!!!

So? If they allow xenophobic tendencies to get in the way of rationality they can go and **** themselves with a rusty pole.

flahavaj

Fair play Rafa. I always felt that no matter what was going on he had a genuine love and affection for Liverpool as a city and a club. Whatever you say about him as a manager, he always struck me as a decent man and a good human being. Theres not many you could say that about anymore in football. Ye haven't just lost a manager, ye have lost a little part of the club.

Kess73

The Muppet wrote: »

Kudos to Rafa with the donation, It's a nice gesture.

Donations not donation.


The man spent a nice portion of his pay off between a number of great causes. No press were with him, and it seems most won't be made public until after he had left the city with his family.

Two are known here on this thread now.

Really classy way for him to leave the city. I think it speaks volumes about the man's character that it comes as no shock to see him do this.

tok9

Kess73 wrote: »

Really classy way for him to leave the city. I think it speaks volumes about the man's character that it comes as no shock to see him do this.

What was the other donation he made?

Mr Alan

Just reading about Rafas good deeds in more detail at the minute online.

So busy lately when I read it earlier the signifigance of the figure went straight over my head-****ing eyes welled up when it dawned on me.

What an incredible gesture.

Ray Of Hope Appeal also have confirmed they received a donation, along with talk of many other donations throughout the city that most likely won't get reported as supposedly he asked for them all to be kept on the downlow. Margaret Aspinall and others present when he made the donation were overwhelmed with emotion when he handed over the cheque they felt that his good deed deserved recognition.

People can ****e all on they want about zonal marking, him being detached from his players, etc etc, the simple inarguable fact is....he gets us, he gets our club and he gets what it's about-he always has done.

The idea that he was run out of town, which he ****ing well was, is just making me more and more angry by the day.

Despite him being willing to stay when in reality he should have cut his losses two years ago when it became apparent that our club was no longer interested in competing for major honours, we've run him away from the club in order to replace him with a manager who is without doubt, not as good as him. It defies all logic.

People say "oh he lost the players"....thats ****ing total bollox imo.

But lets say at a push, he lost Gerrard (who is the only real possibility imo).....so ****ing wat? simple solution. sell a clearly not arsed Gerrard (something thats more than likely going to happen anyway) and keep the manager who is clearly of the calibre we want and clearly was born to manage our club.

The Rafa debacle is the latest in a long line of deplorable actions from our owners/board members (yes, i'm incl. that snake Purslow in that too). At some point there will have to be a straw that breaks the camels back.

Any **** who views people trying to do something about it (the shirt that was on here yesterday for example) and thinks "oh that may offend our new long term corporate partners", but yet doesnt bat an eyelid when one of the best managers in Europe is run out of the club for trying to fight his own and our corner, needs to go jump off a ****ing pier. collateral damage I believe its called.

"oh that yanks out banner is a little politically incorrect".......**** OFF! they're killing our club. killing it. on the pitch. off the pitch. in every sense.

Souness may have bulldozed the bootroom, but Rafa restored some of that pride we felt in that era. He's then ****ed over, bigtime, but chooes to stay to fight for more than 2 years after that, turning down many better offers which would have enhanced his CV and reputation as one of the best in Europe. For that alone he deserved another season.

Things go tits up 2 years after investment into the team ceases (as people predicted it would) and people call for the mans head.

These same people barely mention the cancerous ***** killing our club, except when any sort of attempt at organised protest against them...."oh its not imaginative enough" "oh its not professional enough" "oh its blah blah blah".......as I said, those ***** are simply raping the ****ing **** out of our club & most of our fanbase seems to genuinely not give a **** and seem to prefer slating those trying to do something from their semen stained keyboards. well **** off.

We most likely aren't gonna win a trophy next year or until those ***** leave, our best chance of overcoming that.....well he's now at Inter Milan. And if we weren't winning anything, I'd prefer to be not winning anything with Rafa at the helm than anyone else. as i said he gets us.

Last week we had a world class manager, in every sense of the word. Now we don't. Simple.

We've paid 6m and publically humiliated a great man and manager & are left hoping a clearly inferior manager will be tempted enough by the decaying carcass that is our club.

i'm not even sure how much sense the above is making, i know what i mean in my head, but i genuinely am too angry to get it across.

5starpool

tok9 wrote: »

What was the other donation he made?

Alderhey childrens hospital is mentioned above as well.

Kess73

5starpool wrote: »

Alderhey childrens hospital is mentioned above as well.

Yep Alder Hey had a visit as well.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

"oh that yanks out banner is a little politically incorrect".......**** OFF! they're killing our club. killing it. on the pitch. off the pitch. in every sense.

We've paid 6m and publically humiliated a great man and manager & are left hoping a clearly inferior manager will be tempted enough by the decaying carcass that is our club.

i'm not even sure how much sense the above is making, i know what i mean in my head, but i genuinely am too angry to get it across.

this sums up everything for me Al.

and i agree with every bit of sentiment throughout the post.

well said.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just reading about Rafas good deeds in more detail at the minute online.

So busy lately when I read it earlier the signifigance of the figure went straight over my head-****ing eyes welled up when it dawned on me.

What an incredible gesture.

Ray Of Hope Appeal also have confirmed they received a donation, along with talk of many other donations throughout the city that most likely won't get reported as supposedly he asked for them all to be kept on the downlow. Margaret Aspinall and others present when he made the donation were overwhelmed with emotion when he handed over the cheque they felt that his good deed deserved recognition.

People can ****e all on they want about zonal marking, him being detached from his players, etc etc, the simple inarguable fact is....he gets us, he gets our club and he gets what it's about-he always has done.

The idea that he was run out of town, which he ****ing well was, is just making me more and more angry by the day.

Despite him being willing to stay when in reality he should have cut his losses two years ago when it became apparent that our club was no longer interested in competing for major honours, we've run him away from the club in order to replace him with a manager who is without doubt, not as good as him. It defies all logic.

People say "oh he lost the players"....thats ****ing total bollox imo.

But lets say at a push, he lost Gerrard (who is the only real possibility imo).....so ****ing wat? simple solution. sell a clearly not arsed Gerrard (something thats more than likely going to happen anyway) and keep the manager who is clearly of the calibre we want and clearly was born to manage our club.

The Rafa debacle is the latest in a long line of deplorable actions from our owners/board members (yes, i'm incl. that snake Purslow in that too). At some point there will have to be a straw that breaks the camels back.

Any **** who views people trying to do something about it (the shirt that was on here yesterday for example) and thinks "oh that may offend our new long term corporate partners", but yet doesnt bat an eyelid when one of the best managers in Europe is run out of the club for trying to fight his own and our corner, needs to go jump off a ****ing pier. collateral damage I believe its called.

"oh that yanks out banner is a little politically incorrect".......**** OFF! they're killing our club. killing it. on the pitch. off the pitch. in every sense.

Souness may have bulldozed the bootroom, but Rafa restored some of that pride we felt in that era. He's then ****ed over, bigtime, but chooes to stay to fight for more than 2 years after that, turning down many better offers which would have enhanced his CV and reputation as one of the best in Europe. For that alone he deserved another season.

Things go tits up 2 years after investment into the team ceases (as people predicted it would) and people call for the mans head.

These same people barely mention the cancerous ***** killing our club, except when any sort of attempt at organised protest against them...."oh its not imaginative enough" "oh its not professional enough" "oh its blah blah blah".......as I said, those ***** are simply raping the ****ing **** out of our club & most of our fanbase seems to genuinely not give a **** and seem to prefer slating them in from their semen stained keyboards. well **** off.

We most likely aren't gonna win a trophy next year or until those ***** leave, our best chance of overcoming that.....well he's now at Inter Milan. And if we weren't winning anything, I'd prefer to be not winning anything with Rafa at the helm than anyone else. as i said he gets us.

Last week we had a world class manager, in every sense of the word. Now we don't. Simple.

We've paid 6m and publically humiliated a great man and manager & are left hoping a clearly inferior manager will be tempted enough by the decaying carcass that is our club.

i'm not even sure how much sense the above is making, i know what i mean in my head, but i genuinely am too angry to get it across.

Have you been at the sherry again?:p



But a good post nonetheless that hits the bullseye on a few of the things you mentioned.

K-9

Wonder what the Yanks will do when they finally leave?

mike65

kingshankly wrote: »

I wonder how many pages wil be taken up in the tabloids about rafas generosity

Grauniad report

the times (who broke the news)

Daily Heil

Mirror

SlickRic

mike65 wrote: »

Grauniad report

the times (who broke the news)

Daily Heil

Mirror

good stuff.

i know Rafa wanted it secret, but i'm genuinely glad it's been recognised in the press.

Dub13

Me and a mate brought this out on stage last Sat night at the end of One Night In Istanbul in the Grand Canal Theatre.

We have lost a good man.

stumpypeeps

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So? If they allow xenophobic tendencies to get in the way of rationality they can go and **** themselves with a rusty pole.

Thats not xenophbia. Its like watching RTE for the world cup instead of BBC.

MementoMori

For all those of you doubted Rafa's love for Liverpool, can you please make your pitiful case for why whoever arrrives in next as Liverpool manager is more likely to do better than Rafa would have done next season.

I would ****ing love to hear the pitiful justification of why you think that some random new punter would do better than Rafa.

If anyone is looking for a reason why things went badly thing season ask yourself how any squad who would had played their heart out would react to the departure of a central midfielder of Alonso's class and a Right Back of Arbeloa's class to the massive moguls of Real Madrid while the replacement at Right-Back was from a club battling relegation and who seemed to be signed because of the pitiful financial status of the club along with the shameful pay-as-you-go signing of Aquilani, while all of the following exited the club in the last 18 months without any sort replacement in some sort of effort to pretend to balance the books -

Keane
Hyypia
Pennant
Dossena
Aurelio
San Jose
Voronin
Mihaylov
Leto
Hobbs
Anderson
Hamill
Buchtmann
Pourie

Anyone who remotely thinks Rafa got a fair crack of the whip is either a moron or massively delued, and deserves to die screaming imo.

Reganio 2

Calm down with all the Rafa love. I don't like him but I never said he wasn't a nice guy never once did I say he is not a nice guy. But the guy that runs the shop down the road is a nice guy and I don't want him being the manager of Liverpool, their is a difference.

kingshankly

have a aunt who works in Alderhey and she confirmed a sizeable donation from benitez . I also believe montse has been quite upset at the thoughts of leaving Liverpool

kingshankly

rafas the modern day robin hood

Mr Alan

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Calm down with all the Rafa love. I don't like him but I never said he wasn't a nice guy never once did I say he is not a nice guy. But the guy that runs the shop down the road is a nice guy and I don't want him being the manager of Liverpool, their is a difference.

Did you really just compare Rafas abilities as a manager to that of some guy running a shop? Nice.:rolleyes:

*the more I think about the mans replacement, the more I'm starting to hope its Kenny it's totally my heart ruling my head, but our club could do with a bit of heart.

Mister men

We as fans did'nt do enough to keep him. We should be embarrassed.

The Rooster

MementoMori wrote: »

For all those of you doubted Rafa's love for Liverpool, can you please make your pitiful case for why whoever arrrives in next as Liverpool manager is more likely to do better than Rafa would have done next season.

If anyone is looking for a reason why things went badly thing season ask yourself how any squad who would had played their heart out would react to the departure of a central midfielder of Alonso's class

Nobody doubts Benitez loves the club.

You also should remember that Benitez thought that Gareth Barry was a better player than Xabi Alonso.

Mister men

The Rooster wrote: »

Nobody doubts Benitez loves the club.

You also should remember that Benitez thought that Gareth Barry was a better player than Xabi Alonso.

Fergie thought Micheal Owen was still "World Class".....does that make him a bad mamager.

5ForKeeps

The Rooster wrote: »

Nobody doubts Benitez loves the club.

You also should remember that Benitez thought that Gareth Barry was a better player than Xabi Alonso.

Alonso was cack the previous two seasons due to form and injuries of course so you can see the reasoning behind it.

Benzino

Thought this was a good read.

Why Rafa deserves a damn sight better legacy

shotamoose

kingshankly wrote: »

have a aunt who works in Alderhey and she confirmed a sizeable donation from benitez . I also believe montse has been quite upset at the thoughts of leaving Liverpool

It may seem minor alongside the 'really important stuff' like football, but having read so much over the years about how Rafa's family really liked living in the city and how Rafa was proud of his children growing up Scousers, it is a real shame that Montse and the kids have had to leave too.

JimsAlterEgo

Whats all of this love in by internet pool fans of rafa? Anyone of an older generation, those that watched the team in the 70s and 80s, that I know are glad to see the back of him. It only seems to be the internet generation that wanted to keep him.

The team finished 7th last season because of him and pretty much flopped in every other competion.
The brand of football bar maybe 10/15 games in all of his years in charge was cack to say the least(sh!t on a stick I believe it was called)
The demeanour of some of the players towards him last season made it obvious that some of them were going WTF at times as were a lot of fans.
He showed no signs that he lad "learned" the premiership, all of his success was in Europe and even that was mostly not with players he signed.

If I were a pool fan I would be glad hes gone, surely given the players at their disposal, assuming all stay, any manager worth his salt should be able to get them into the top 4 and with some money smartly invested mightt even get them challenging again.

My 2c, some people won't like it but the truth hurts sometimes.

Spud83

MementoMori wrote: »

For all those of you doubted Rafa's love for Liverpool, can you please make your pitiful case for why whoever arrrives in next as Liverpool manager is more likely to do better than Rafa would have done next season.

I would ****ing love to hear the pitiful justification of why you think that some random new punter would do better than Rafa.

If anyone is looking for a reason why things went badly thing season ask yourself how any squad who would had played their heart out would react to the departure of a central midfielder of Alonso's class and a Right Back of Arbeloa's class to the massive moguls of Real Madrid while the replacement at Right-Back was from a club battling relegation and who seemed to be signed because of the pitiful financial status of the club along with the shameful pay-as-you-go signing of Aquilani, while all of the following exited the club in the last 18 months without any sort replacement in some sort of effort to pretend to balance the books -

Keane
Hyypia
Pennant
Dossena
Aurelio
San Jose
Voronin
Mihaylov
Leto
Hobbs
Anderson
Hamill
Buchtmann
Pourie

Anyone who remotely thinks Rafa got a fair crack of the whip is either a moron or massively delued, and deserves to die screaming imo.

This is a joke right?

You mean a full back of Arbeloa's class that was replaced with an 18 million pound international footballer?

You have all ready spent 15 million on Alonsos replacement, it was not some kind of pay as you play deal. It was a 20 million deal broken up over two years.

Your manager was given the money to replace these players, and he choose who to get, spending 38 million in the process, that is not a justifiable excuse for falling from 2nd to 7th.

Lets look at the rest of your list too,

Keane - Rafa managed to make a loss on a sixth month signing. Clap Clap.
Hyypia - Was replaced with kyrgiakos
Pennant - Maxi
Dossena - only left in Jan, again with Rafa making a loss.
Aurelio - only left this summer, not a chance to replace him yet.
San Jose - hasn't left? He was loaned out to get football or because he is ****.
Voronin - ok, even though he was a **** signing, replaced with NGog?
Mihaylov - a 21 year old goalkeeper, clubs release youth players every year.
Leto - another youth.
Hobbs - another youth
Anderson - another youth
Hamill - another youth
Buchtmann - another youth
Pourie -another youth.

In the same 18 months he has brought in the following youths

Chris Mavinga
Stephen Sama
Diego Cavalier
Vitor Flora

I'll agree that Rafa has not been backed with significant funds, but he has been given the money, and backing to replace what has been lost in the squad especially in the first team.

After your **** season he deserved to be sacked, the only thing that might have saved him was Liverpools financial position, but based on his job, and his job alone he deserved to be sacked.

whatawaster

MementoMori wrote: »

For all those of you doubted Rafa's love for Liverpool, can you please make your pitiful case for why whoever arrrives in next as Liverpool manager is more likely to do better than Rafa would have done next season.

I would ****ing love to hear the pitiful justification of why you think that some random new punter would do better than Rafa.

If anyone is looking for a reason why things went badly thing season ask yourself how any squad who would had played their heart out would react to the departure of a central midfielder of Alonso's class and a Right Back of Arbeloa's class to the massive moguls of Real Madrid while the replacement at Right-Back was from a club battling relegation and who seemed to be signed because of the pitiful financial status of the club along with the shameful pay-as-you-go signing of Aquilani, while all of the following exited the club in the last 18 months without any sort replacement in some sort of effort to pretend to balance the books -

Keane
Hyypia
Pennant
Dossena
Aurelio
San Jose
Voronin
Mihaylov
Leto
Hobbs
Anderson
Hamill
Buchtmann
Pourie

Anyone who remotely thinks Rafa got a fair crack of the whip is either a moron or massively delued, and deserves to die screaming imo.

Yes, we all want some "random punter" appointed as a replacement.

So you think last season was par for the course? What we all should have expected/been satisfied with? because that's what your above post implies.

The above list of players is misleading. 14 players on it. More than half are youth and reserve players. Only ONE was a Rafa signing who became an established first XI player. Printing a list of 14 players is just rhetoric, plain and simple.


Aquilani "a pay-as-you-go" signing is also complete boll*cks. He was bought and will be paid for in installments, like 90% of players bought today. To say his signing is far different from the norm is pure propoganda on your part.

I don't think Rafa was treated well by our owners/our board/many of our fans. I believe we can get in someone who can do a better job than Rafa was doing. I have many of my thoughts on that on this thread previously. I think the conditions he was working under were having a devastating effect on his performance (understandable). Tactically last season we went backwards, he's not getting the squad playing half as well as he should, and that was a trend over 50+ games and a whole season. It never really got better, and it's my opinion that it probably wouldn't have got better this season. That's why i advocated a change. I don't think Rafa and the players were working well together, there were numerous, visible symptoms of this. We can't afford to change the playing squad, so imo a change of manager was necessary. Also, his transfer dealings over the past 2 years have been way short of good enough. Over 50m outgoings and only one player (Johnson) who has slotted into our first 11 is not good enough.

Your post just comes across as arrogant and childish. anyone who doesn't share your view can surely only put forth "pitiful justifications" of their opinions. You are blinkered beyond belief. As much so as Ardent, Fink or any of the others. I admire that you supported Rafa to the end, indeed i regret that i couldn't too, but his time at the club, and legacy, whilst largely positive, was not as simple as you've attempted to portray it.

SlickRic

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Whats all of this love in by internet pool fans of rafa? Anyone of an older generation, those that watched the team in the 70s and 80s, that I know are glad to see the back of him. It only seems to be the internet generation that wanted to keep him.

The team finished 7th last season because of him and pretty much flopped in every other competion.
The brand of football bar maybe 10/15 games in all of his years in charge was cack to say the least(sh!t on a stick I believe it was called)
The demeanour of some of the players towards him last season made it obvious that some of them were going WTF at times as were a lot of fans.
He showed no signs that he lad "learned" the premiership, all of his success was in Europe and even that was mostly not with players he signed.

If I were a pool fan I would be glad hes gone, surely given the players at their disposal, assuming all stay, any manager worth his salt should be able to get them into the top 4 and with some money smartly invested mightt even get them challenging again.

My 2c, some people won't like it but the truth hurts sometimes.

how droll.

if you think he only got us playing 'good football' in 10/15 games, you're deluded.

if you think anyone but Gerrard showed 'WTF' signs in his demeanour, you're deluded.

fans from the 70s and 80s, generally, seem to live in a bit of a cloud cuckoo land. we are not the best team in England anymore, and haven't been for 20 years.

it's a long road back; so unless you had Roman Abramovich, Blackburn's Jack Walker's money, or Wenger's unrivalled brilliance...you're always behind Manchester United. that's just fact . these are the only teams to beat Ferguson in two decades, and in Blackburn's case, they obviously dwindled from that height once the money dried up.

as long as we remain deluded in thinking we have a right to be the best team in the land, we will make snap judgments in getting rid of people like Rafa, whose only fault was one very bad season. i'll admit, i wanted him gone at one stage, such was my frustration with the season just gone, but you have to step back and look at the bigger picture once in a while.

Chardee MacDennis

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Whats all of this love in by internet pool fans of rafa? Anyone of an older generation, those that watched the team in the 70s and 80s, that I know are glad to see the back of him. It only seems to be the internet generation that wanted to keep him.

The team finished 7th last season because of him and pretty much flopped in every other competion.
The brand of football bar maybe 10/15 games in all of his years in charge was cack to say the least(sh!t on a stick I believe it was called)
The demeanour of some of the players towards him last season made it obvious that some of them were going WTF at times as were a lot of fans.
He showed no signs that he lad "learned" the premiership, all of his success was in Europe and even that was mostly not with players he signed.

If I were a pool fan I would be glad hes gone, surely given the players at their disposal, assuming all stay, any manager worth his salt should be able to get them into the top 4 and with some money smartly invested mightt even get them challenging again.

My 2c, some people won't like it but the truth hurts sometimes.

its coz you "golden generation" people have you're heads in the clouds like Ronnie Whelan (i remember when Liverpool used to win everything in sight, why arent we doing that anymore, clearly it must be rafas fault), football isnt as simple as it used to be. if you are honestly happy to see the back of him you dont know what he's done for the club...

JimsAlterEgo

BastardPrince wrote: »

its coz you "golden generation" people have you're heads in the clouds like Ronnie Whelan (i remember when Liverpool used to win everything in sight, why arent we doing that anymore, clearly it must be rafas fault), football isnt as simple as it used to be. if you are honestly happy to see the back of him you dont know what he's done for the club...

I am neither a pool fan nor of that generation

Pighead

SlickRic wrote: »

how droll.

if you think he only got us playing 'good football' in 10/15 games, you're deluded.

if you think anyone but Gerrard showed 'WTF' signs in his demeanour, you're deluded.

fans from the 70s and 80s, generally, seem to live in a bit of a cloud cuckoo land. we are not the best team in England anymore, and haven't been for 20 years.

it's a long road back; so unless you had Roman Abramovich, Blackburn's Jack Walker's money, or Wenger's unrivalled brilliance...you're always behind Manchester United. that's just fact . these are the only teams to beat Ferguson in two decades, and in Blackburn's case, they obviously dwindled from that height once the money dried up.

as long as we remain deluded in thinking we have a right to be the best team in the land, we will make snap judgments in getting rid of people like Rafa, whose only fault was one very bad season. i'll admit, i wanted him gone at one stage, such was my frustration with the season just gone, but you have to step back and look at the bigger picture once in a while.

I think some of the Liverpool fans are in danger of forgetting Rafa's shortcomings as a manager due to what a nice bloke he seems to be. SLick, there was a reason why you spent half of last season calling for Rafa's head. It wasn't a spur of the moment call by you. It was the culmination of watching a very talented Liverpool team underperform week after week and month after month. It was Rafa's negativity against teams they should have been beating off the park. It was his stubborness to change things around in a game until well after teh 70th minute mark when it was too late for his subs to have an impact.

I think you are being a bit selective with your memories of last season and have been swept along in this recent tide of Rafaphoria. Nobodys saying Liverpool have any God given right to be the best in the land. People are saying that the Liverpool team from last season should be finishing in the top 4. Not seventh. And it's not just one bad season out of 5. There have been doubts about Rafa in three of his seasons in charge at the club. You can spin last season all you like but the bottom line is that Liverpool have a strong team and they horribly underachieved. And the main man responsible for that was the man in charge.

SlickRic

true Pighead, i'm aware of his shortcomings; all too familiar with them.

but i don't think, at this stage, with all the cr*p surrounding our ownership, with all the uncertainty over the future, that sacking a very good manager (and he is), giving him £6m, in favour of bringing in someone who will most liley not be in his class, is very risky; especially when he is not the main problem at the club. not even close.

Kenny Dalglish is the frontrunner for the job. yes, he's a living legend, and he'll give us some of our 'heart' back, but it's just all very risky.

yes, we'd stagnated a bit. yes, last season was a collective f*ck-up from all at the club, with Rafa leading it. but i do not agree there'd been doubts about him for 3 years. i certainly didn't doubt him until last year. other clubs' fans (who probably generally have ulterior motives than wanting what's best for our club), and people expecting instant success maybe did, but not me.

as i've said, i hope this ALL somehow works out for the best, and we somehow get back in the top 4 next year. and if we do, i'll hold my hands up and say, 'well fair enough, we did what we had to do then, and it's come off'.

but until we get new owners, i don't see that happening. the squad is not good enough, unless Torres stays, and he keeps fit for 95% of the season IMO. we need investment. we need a stadium. none of that will happen until new owners come in.

and like him or not, Rafa saw right through them and didn't take their sh*te. if nothing else, it was helpful for some of us fans to know that someone was fighting our corner in the boardroom on some level. that's not to say that in itself is justification for him staying in the job, but it's another reason why some fans would have been more than happy to see him stay.

sorry, that post is probably a bit of a clusterf*ck.

Pighead

Rafa's first season- GOOD: Finished 5th in League and European Champions. Pretty average league campaign but fair enough as it was his first season in charge and nobody really gave a fcuk seeing as he'd just made them Champions of Europe.

Second Season- GOOD: 3rd in the League and Fa Cup Winners: This was a pretty decent season. Things were improving in the league. Liverpool fans were starting to believe that a league championship might not be too far away. FA Cup capped off the season nicely. Now at this stage of proceedings everything was fine and rosy in the Rafa garden.

Third Season- BAD Liverpool finish 3rd. European Champions League Finalists.
On paper seems ok but lets call a spade a spade it was a disappointing season for all Liverpool fans. The champions league final appearance tends to gloss over the fact that Liverpool were awful away from home that season. They went through a horrible patch of form and got destroyed at Anfield by the Arsenal kids. You can dress 06/07 season up however you like but at the time (from a league perspective) it was clearly seen as a season of underachievment

Fourth Season-BAD: Again Liverpool done well in Europe but the League campaign was distinctly average. Probably for the first time there were some Liverpool fans calling for Rafas head. There insipid away performances against the lower lights of the league were becoming the norm rather than the exception. Liverpools excellent performances against teh bigger teams made this all the more frustrating.

Fifth Season- GOOD: Pretty good season. Started off strongly and then seemed to revert to type around Christmas with some terrible results which allowed Utd to regain top spot. But in fairness they finished off strongly to claim second. Never really in danger of catching Utd but a good season nonetheless. Could he push on from here though?

Sixth Season- BAD: No! Absolute shambles. Terrible season with some God awful results. The risk of buying a fragile Aqualani didn't pay off and even when the Italian was fit Rafa didn't seem to want to play him in the bigger games.

That's probably how I'd break down Rafa's time in charge which is why I can't really understand the people who keep banging on about "Oh but he only had one bad season, surely you can't sack a manager because of one bad season?" Personally I think he done ok in 3 and bad in 3. He had money to spend despite people playing the poverty card and in my eyes he wasted quite a bit of it.

I also think that Liverpool team should have been set up a bit more attacking than they were allowed to. On paper over the past 5 or so years Liverpool have had a pretty vast array of attacking talent. But they were concealed in straitjackets by Rafa's negative tactics. Bellamy spent more time defending in his own half than he did doing what he does best (ie terrorising defenders with his speed)

People are saying it will be impossible to replace Rafa as he was a world class manager and done wonders for the club. I'd disagree and argue he was a good manager but definitely not as irreplaceable as you lot would lead us to believe.

Dont be at yourself

That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on this thread, Pighead.

Pighead

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on this thread, Pighead.

You mustn't have read about 97% of it so!

So how many good season out of six would you say Rafa had? I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and plump for five?

whatawaster

Pighead wrote: »

You mustn't have read about 97% of it so!

So how many good season out of six would you say Rafa had? I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and plump for five?

I'd say:

Season 1:
League - Poor
Europe - Sensational

Season 2:
League - very good
Europe - poor

Season 3:
League - fairly poor (but we put so much focus into a great CL run that i'd forgive it)
Europe - excellent

Season 4
League - pretty good
Europe - good

Season 5
League - very good
Europe - good

Season 6
League - very poor
Europe - very poor


Everything isn't either good or bad

SlickRic

Pighead, I'm not going to bother going through all of that.

your summations of the seasons are embarrassingly harsh, and instead of addressing my point that fans want Rafa at the club because he's a proven good manager, who cares about the club more than those Yanks ever hope to, just washes over. this is something that means a lot to us. if you think that's stupid, that's your prerogative.

if he had just had 3 ok seasons and 3 poor ones, how in the name of God would he get the chance to take over from Mourinho at Inter?

nothing is black and white. both in summising seasons and Rafa.

Rafa's made mistakes, but he's not the main problem, the owners are. i'd prefer him to them. that's basically the bottom line.

stumpypeeps

SlickRic wrote: »

Pighead, I'm not going to bother going through all of that.

your summations of the seasons are embarrassingly harsh, and instead of addressing my point that fans want Rafa at the club because he's a proven good manager, who cares about the club more than those Yanks ever hope to, just washes over. this is something that means a lot to us. if you think that's stupid, that's your prerogative.

if he had just had 3 ok seasons and 3 poor ones, how in the name of God would he get the chance to take over from Mourinho at Inter?

nothing is black and white. both in summising seasons and Rafa.

Rafa's made mistakes, but he's not the main problem, the owners are. i'd prefer him to them. that's basically the bottom line.

You'll probably criticise me for harping on but I believe the players didn't want to work with Rafa anymore and that ultimately cost him.

Pighead

SlickRic the fact that Rafa has taken over at Inter doesn't automatically mean that he's an excellent manager. Chairman have been known to hire the wrong men you know. Rafa also has an awful lot of credit in the bank with regards his CV because of his excellent European performances. Also his style of management could well be suited to the Italian League.

whatawaster not sure how you can class 07/08 as pretty good. Liverpool were out of the race by Christmas and most Liverpool fans were saying that Rafa's job was in jeopardy if results didn't pick up by the end of the season.

5ForKeeps

stumpypeeps wrote: »

You'll probably criticise me for harping on but I believe the players didn't want to work with Rafa anymore and that ultimately cost him.

Any quotes?

Besides Riera who was the cause of his own demise

SlickRic

stumpypeeps wrote: »

You'll probably criticise me for harping on but I believe the players didn't want to work with Rafa anymore and that ultimately cost him.

i'm not going to argue about that at length again, but one or two does not mean 'the players'.

i think some personalities struggled with him, but you'll get that in any place of work.

you have no proof whatsoever of them not wanting to work with him; bar Gerrard looking, during most games, like someone had stolen his chocolate bar, and the perpetrators were his own teammates.

stumpypeeps

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Any quotes?

Besides Riera who was the cause of his own demise

Have you any quotes from any of the players expressing their outrage at his sacking?

19 losses over the course of the season suggests to me players weren't performing for him. The insipid display after going behind against Chelsea. That for me spelled the end.

SlickRic

Pighead wrote: »

SlickRic the fact that Rafa has taken over at Inter doesn't automatically mean that he's an excellent manager. Chairman have been known to hire the wrong men you know. Rafa also has an awful lot of credit in the bank with regards his CV because of his excellent European performances. Also his style of management could well be suited to the Italian League.

granted, but it does mean he's at least a very good manager. end of. they wouldn't take a chance on him coming to a league he hasn't been a part of yet if he wasn't.

and once more, in a choice between him and our owners, you know who wins every time.

Chardee MacDennis

Pighead wrote: »

SlickRic the fact that Rafa has taken over at Inter doesn't automatically mean that he's an excellent manager. Chairman have been known to hire the wrong men you know. Rafa also has an awful lot of credit in the bank with regards his CV because of his excellent European performances. Also his style of management could well be suited to the Italian League.

whatawaster not sure how you can class 07/08 as pretty good. Liverpool were out of the race by Christmas and most Liverpool fans were saying that Rafa's job was in jeopardy if results didn't pick up by the end of the season.

how are you setting the standard though? are you expecting liverpool to win the league? who sets that standard? so should roy hodgson/martin o'neal be fired after 'terrible' seasons of not finishing in the top 4 or challenging?

for each of those season we had the 4th most expensive squad and 4th highest wage there for the target in the league was 4th, any season we made that or higher (06/07 - 3rd) was a successful season.

whatawaster

Pighead wrote: »

whatawaster not sure how you can class 07/08 as pretty good. Liverpool were out of the race by Christmas and most Liverpool fans were saying that Rafa's job was in jeopardy if results didn't pick up by the end of the season.

personally i was pretty happy with that season because it was the first time we'd balanced a long european run with excellent league form after christmas.

76 points (i think) is pretty good by most standards.

SlickRic

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Have you any quotes from any of the players expressing their outrage at his sacking?

and the circle goes round and round.

nobody has any quotes, so it's one person's opinion against another.

stumpypeeps

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm not going to argue about that at length again, but one or two does not mean 'the players'.

i think some personalities struggled with him, but you'll get that in any place of work.

you have no proof whatsoever of them not wanting to work with him; bar Gerrard looking, during most games, like someone had stolen his chocolate bar, and the perpetrators were his own teammates.

You have no proof whatsoever they did want to work with him. Blind faith. My proof is that he's currently working in Milan.