Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Mister men

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Whats all of this love in by internet pool fans of rafa? Anyone of an older generation, those that watched the team in the 70s and 80s, that I know are glad to see the back of him. It only seems to be the internet generation that wanted to keep him.

The team finished 7th last season because of him and pretty much flopped in every other competion.
The brand of football bar maybe 10/15 games in all of his years in charge was cack to say the least(sh!t on a stick I believe it was called)
The demeanour of some of the players towards him last season made it obvious that some of them were going WTF at times as were a lot of fans.
He showed no signs that he lad "learned" the premiership, all of his success was in Europe and even that was mostly not with players he signed.

If I were a pool fan I would be glad hes gone, surely given the players at their disposal, assuming all stay, any manager worth his salt should be able to get them into the top 4 and with some money smartly invested mightt even get them challenging again.

My 2c, some people won't like it but the truth hurts sometimes.

Well if you don't get it you dont get it.
Edit: just noticed your not a Liverpool fan.:rolleyes:

Splainc

Mister men wrote: »

Don't tell me getting to that final was just luck? It was a good season and if not for a so so display in that match we would have had six big ears.

Sure we probably should have won that game rather than the first Milan final

Mister men

Pighead wrote: »

Rafa's first season- GOOD: Finished 5th in League and European Champions. Pretty average league campaign but fair enough as it was his first season in charge and nobody really gave a fcuk seeing as he'd just made them Champions of Europe.

Second Season- GOOD: 3rd in the League and Fa Cup Winners: This was a pretty decent season. Things were improving in the league. Liverpool fans were starting to believe that a league championship might not be too far away. FA Cup capped off the season nicely. Now at this stage of proceedings everything was fine and rosy in the Rafa garden.

Third Season- BAD Liverpool finish 3rd. European Champions League Finalists.
On paper seems ok but lets call a spade a spade it was a disappointing season for all Liverpool fans. The champions league final appearance tends to gloss over the fact that Liverpool were awful away from home that season. They went through a horrible patch of form and got destroyed at Anfield by the Arsenal kids. You can dress 06/07 season up however you like but at the time (from a league perspective) it was clearly seen as a season of underachievment

Fourth Season-BAD: Again Liverpool done well in Europe but the League campaign was distinctly average. Probably for the first time there were some Liverpool fans calling for Rafas head. There insipid away performances against the lower lights of the league were becoming the norm rather than the exception. Liverpools excellent performances against teh bigger teams made this all the more frustrating.

Fifth Season- GOOD: Pretty good season. Started off strongly and then seemed to revert to type around Christmas with some terrible results which allowed Utd to regain top spot. But in fairness they finished off strongly to claim second. Never really in danger of catching Utd but a good season nonetheless. Could he push on from here though?

Sixth Season- BAD: No! Absolute shambles. Terrible season with some God awful results. The risk of buying a fragile Aqualani didn't pay off and even when the Italian was fit Rafa didn't seem to want to play him in the bigger games.

That's probably how I'd break down Rafa's time in charge which is why I can't really understand the people who keep banging on about "Oh but he only had one bad season, surely you can't sack a manager because of one bad season?" Personally I think he done ok in 3 and bad in 3. He had money to spend despite people playing the poverty card and in my eyes he wasted quite a bit of it.

I also think that Liverpool team should have been set up a bit more attacking than they were allowed to. On paper over the past 5 or so years Liverpool have had a pretty vast array of attacking talent. But they were concealed in straitjackets by Rafa's negative tactics. Bellamy spent more time defending in his own half than he did doing what he does best (ie terrorising defenders with his speed)

People are saying it will be impossible to replace Rafa as he was a world class manager and done wonders for the club. I'd disagree and argue he was a good manager but definitely not as irreplaceable as you lot would lead us to believe.

I'm new to the soccer forum. Is this the general standard of posting here?
Rafa's first season (where we won the Champions league was "good")...
and a season getting to the Champions league final is considered bad. Lol.

Rafa

Splainc

Mister men wrote: »

I'm new to the soccer forum. Is this the general standard of posting here?
Rafa's first season (where we won the Champions league was "good")...
and a season getting to the Champions league final is considered bad. Lol.

I know

Ardent

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Would it not be fair to say that throughout his reign, the results in the Champions league helped to sweep aside a lot of the question marks about performances and decisions domestically?

Absolutely.

Mr Alan

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Would it not be fair to say that throughout his reign, the results in the Champions league helped to sweep aside a lot of the question marks about performances and decisions domestically?

This is only true of one season. His first. The rest our club achieved wat it should, or above that. This season being the exception when we underachieved for the first time. Would it be fair to point out that Rafa has amassed record league points totals on a couple of occassions, and brought us closest to winnin it than anyone in 20 years? Combined with his wonderful european record, and how great a man he is, the state of our club currently and the type of managers we're likely to replace him with-makes it really baffling how anyone could think getting rid was the right decision.

Splainc

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is only true of one season. His first. The rest our club achieved wat it should, or above that. This season being the exception when we underachieved for the first time. Would it be fair to point out that Rafa has amassed record league points totals on a couple of occassions, and brought us closest to winnin it than anyone in 20 years? Combined with his wonderful european record, and how great a man he is, the state of our club currently and the type of managers we're likely to replace him with-makes it really baffling how anyone could think getting rid was the right decision.

I thought his time was up myself but did not want him replaced until there was someone better. However we do not know what is going on behind the scenes with the sale as to be able to appoint your own manager (and pay no compensation as well as having to run the current manager out) is a major plus for any buyer. Maybe Torres and Gerrard were sick of him and the club felt that the best way to keep hold of them both was to bring in fresh blood.

stumpypeeps

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Would it not be fair to say that throughout his reign, the results in the Champions league helped to sweep aside a lot of the question marks about performances and decisions domestically?

Before he came to Liverpool we were performing worse in the league and were nobodys in the CL. I think many people seem to forget this.


2004-2005 Champions league win. Carling cup runners up. 5th place in league but still qualified as winners for CL.

2005-2006 Fa Cup win. CL last 16. 3rd place in league with 82 points.

2006-2007 CL runners up.3rd place in league with 68 points.

2007-2008 CL semi final. 4th in league 76 points.

2008-2009 Cl qtr final. 2nd in league with 86 points.

2009-2010 Cl group stages. 7th in league with 63 points.

There's only one poor season in all that. Anyone who says different is dillusional tbh.

Does one poor season = sacking? Yes when people with no football brain are running a club.

Utd and Chelsea have clearly had better squads than us year in year out and have deservedly shared the league between them during Rafa's reign.

The points needed to win the league also increased significantly in the last 6 years. Not so long ago our 86 points and even our 82 points would have been good enough for the title.

For example the great united team that won the treble in '99 scored 79 points.It puts some perspective on things.

Seeing as we have no CL this season as a distraction we should challenging tor the league next season eh??

Bóllocks.

stumpypeeps

rarnes1 wrote: »

Before he came to Liverpool we were performing worse in the league and were nobodys in the CL. I think many people seem to forget this.


2004-2005 Champions league win. Carling cup runners up. 5th place in league but still qualified as winners for CL.

2005-2006 Fa Cup win. CL last 16. 3rd place in league with 82 points.

2006-2007 CL runners up.3rd place in league with 68 points.

2007-2008 CL semi final. 4th in league 76 points.

2008-2009 Cl qtr final. 2nd in league with 86 points.

2009-2010 Cl group stages. 7th in league with 63 points.

There's only one poor season in all that. Anyone who says different is dillusional tbh.

Does one poor season = sacking? Yes when people with no football brain are running a club.

Utd and Chelsea have clearly had better squads than us year in year out and have deservedly shared the league between them during Rafa's reign.

The points needed to win the league also increased significantly in the last 6 years. Not so long ago our 86 points and even our 82 points would have been good enough for the title.

For example the great united team that won the treble in '99 scored 79 points.It puts some perspective on things.

Seeing as we have no CL this season as a distraction we should challenging tor the league next season eh??

Bóllocks.

I'm saying he was sacked because of a breakdown in relations between himself and some of his senior players.

Not due to his perfomances overall for the club, which by and large were excellent.

Some of his decisions in domestic games were at times odd and perhaps this was a contributing factor to the breakdown in relations between players and managers. Domestic success is what Liverpool want most in my opinion.

You should read more of the thread before losing your panties.

kippy

Lads,
Can we move on from Rafa in this thread?
He is part of Liverpools history now, whether you thought he was a crock o ****e or a legend.
Granted his "legacy" will be with the club for years to come but right now he's an employee of Inter.
If people want to continue discussing him I think they should set up a seperate thread.

Do Liverpool fans want to see the back of any players this Summer? Are there any players Liverpool have been looking at or is all this on hold until a permanent appointment is made to the managerial position?
Also, do fans believe that there is a buyer waiting in the wing who will bring with them their own manager?

Kippy

_blank_

Hey lads, just to let you know, there's a World Cup starting in a couple of minutes.

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Would this not suggest something critical made the owners take this route? So far the only thing I can think of is the player manager relationship.
Initially I hoped that new owners were clearing the decks for their own man to take the helm. Wishful thinking I know.:rolleyes:

That is why I said earlier that the only way I would be happy with Kenny or Roy appointment was if it was a confirmed short term thing of 12 months or so until the top quality replacement came in under new owners.

Des

Des wrote: »

Hey lads, just to let you know, there's a World Cup starting in a couple of minutes.

If Rafa isn't involved we don't want to know

Kess73

Des wrote: »

Hey lads, just to let you know, there's a World Cup starting in a couple of minutes.

Is Rafa in it?:D

stumpypeeps

kippy wrote: »

Lads,
Can we move on from Rafa in this thread?
He is part of Liverpools history now, whether you thought he was a crock o ****e or a legend.
Granted his "legacy" will be with the club for years to come but right now he's an employee of Inter.
If people want to continue discussing him I think they should set up a seperate thread.

Do Liverpool fans want to see the back of any players this Summer? Are there any players Liverpool have been looking at or is all this on hold until a permanent appointment is made to the managerial position?
Also, do fans believe that there is a buyer waiting in the wing who will bring with them their own manager?

Kippy

I agree. Whats done is done. Its time to move forward. The burning question though Kippy is who will be the next manager? I'd love to get a straw poll as to who people would like to see come in. Obviously Dalglish and Hodgson seem to be the front runners, with the press and the bookies.

I tried to open a poll on the matter but I was denied. So as a matter of interest which would you prefer Dalglish or Hodgson?

Chardee MacDennis

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Rafa isn't involved we don't want to know

when does Serie A start?

stumpypeeps

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'm saying he was sacked because of a breakdown in relations between himself and some of his senior players.

Not due to his perfomances overall for the club, which by and large were excellent.

Some of his decisions in domestic games were at times odd and perhaps this was a contributing factor to the breakdown in relations between players and managers. Domestic success is what Liverpool want most in my opinion.

You should read more of the thread before losing your panties.

I was responding to this post

Would it not be fair to say that throughout his reign, the results in the Champions league helped to sweep aside a lot of the question marks about performances and decisions domestically?

Where's the mention of senior players breakdown in relations in that?

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

That is why I said earlier that the only way I would be happy with Kenny or Roy appointment was if it was a confirmed short term thing of 12 months or so until the top quality replacement came in under new owners.

If its Dalglish or Hodgson I'd imagine then it will be a short term thing til new owners are found. I think with the club for sale any appointment will be on an interim basis. Should either prove successful who knows how long they may stay.

But a rolling 12 month contract I'd imagine will be on offer.

BastardPrince

BastardPrince wrote: »

when does Serie A start?

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

Lads,
Can we move on from Rafa in this thread?

Genuine answer. No.

evil_seed

probably not until we get a replacement. and then we'll have the comparisons. and after all that is done.... Then we can move on.

kippy

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I agree. Whats done is done. Its time to move forward. The burning question though Kippy is who will be the next manager? I'd love to get a straw poll as to who people would like to see come in. Obviously Dalglish and Hodgson seem to be the front runners, with the press and the bookies.

I tried to open a poll on the matter but I was denied. So as a matter of interest which would you prefer Dalglish or Hodgson?

As most know, I amnt a Liverpool fan.
That being said I think if you had to choose only between those two managers and based on the current needs and resources of the club I would pick Hodgson. I dont get the love in with Dalglish at all to be honest.
Give Hodgson a change, let him stabilise the ship somewhat.
As I mentioned there MAY be new owners in the wings with their own budget/Manager in waiting.

Ideally what LFC need to do is get those owners out of there sharpish. I notice season ticket prices have gone up again this season also.

Mr Alan

yep, 7% increase

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Genuine answer. No.

Is that just your opinion of how this thread has generally gone or your own particular feelings on Rafa?

kippy

kippy wrote: »

As most know, I amnt a Liverpool fan.

Who do you support?

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

Is that just your opinion of how this thread has generally gone or your own particular feelings on Rafa?

Its just how it'll be, he was sacked against the wishes of the fans and i expect the club to be managerless for the next couple of months, when we'll them appoint an inferior man who'll be a yes man for the yanks.

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

Who do you support?

To be honest at this stage I amn't really a supporter of any one club.
Up until about 4-5 years ago I supported Man United but not in any big way.
Once the Glaziers had taken over I became seriously dissillusioned and decided not to call myself a supporter.
I decided to try give my time to Galway United but that hasnt really worked out. I get to a few games and enjoy them but don't have the time to get to more.
Right now, I amn't that bothered about actually "supporting" one team. I enjoy football and the banter that goes with it.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Its just how it'll be, he was sacked against the wishes of the fans and i expect the club to be managerless for the next couple of months, when we'll them appoint an inferior man who'll be a yes man for the yanks.

What fans are you talking about now?
Most of the lads I know who are ardent Liverpool fans were 100% behind Rafa at this time last season, you couldnt say a word about him, although they were annoyed he managed to implode and throw away a premierleague win. Then as this year as gone on they've admitted that he wasnt all he was cracked up to be.
Now they're pretty disgusted with Rafa and more importantly the "cash conscious board" who managed to shell out 6 million to him despite him already having the Inter job in the bag.

daithijjj

Some ott posting in here today.

There isnt a reds fan i know that doesnt like rafa 'the man'.

I was happy to give him another year despite watching the muck we played this season. The fact is hes gone, its time to move on. If the club meets him in a footballing capacity in the future il be glad to stand up and give him the hearty round of applause he deserves. However, there is no place for sentiment in todays game. It holds you back and now is the time for tough decisions. One of those tough decisions imo, is convincing kenny that he is not a good candidate for the full time job.

I want him to live a lengthy and happy life as an ambasador for the club. Sure, id be happy to have him step in on a month to month rolling contract until the club is sold, thats it. Whomever does come in to buy the club shouldnt have the unenviable task of squeezing out a legend of the club in order to move forward.

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

What fans are you talking about now?
Most of the lads I know who are ardent Liverpool fans were 100% behind Rafa at this time last season, you couldnt say a word about him, although they were annoyed he managed to implode and throw away a premierleague win. Then as this year as gone on they've admitted that he wasnt all he was cracked up to be.
Now they're pretty disgusted with Rafa and more importantly the "cash conscious board" who managed to shell out 6 million to him despite him already having the Inter job in the bag.

So last year they thought he was great and were a hundred percent behind him, now they don't and think he should be sacked. So 1 bad season totally changed their opinion. See, i think people like that are idiots.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

So last year they thought he was great and were a hundred percent behind him, now they don't and think he should be sacked. So 1 bad season totally changed their opinion. See, i think people like that are idiots.

The thing is,
It wasnt just one bad season......
They looked at everything Rafa did this season and last and figured out he was making some fundamental mistakes throughout both seasons (and indeed prior to that).
And you have to admit - how does a manager who scores a record total of points one season with his team manage to nosedive so badly the next? What happened in that period? It wasnt just the clubs around them getting better.......

On paper last season MAY have looked like a "good" season. But when you actually look at the position Liverpool were in in Jan of that year and the clubs they subsequently lost points to to "throw" away the league you have to admit mistakes were made.
These guys would have backed Rafa to the hilt the first few years by the way.
Can you not admit yourself that Rafa made some serious mistakes/errors of judgement in his time at the club, no more so this season whent the whole thing was a shambles?
Can you also not see how Rafa managed to completely shaft the club (well the powers that be let him do it) with his 5 year contract........the timing of which was strange. There wasnt much of a peep outta against the owners after it was signed. You think the next manager will be a puppy of the owners - yer last one was as well.

There are fans of many clubs who are blinded. There are those who were too anti Rafa and there were those who were too pro Rafa.
Ultimately, the guy is gone. He and he alone has been responsible for coaching and training, player purchases, tactics and player motivation for the past few years. He and he along is ultimately responsible for what happens on that pitch, and thats why he was getting paid 3+ million per year.

happyoutscan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Its just how it'll be, he was sacked against the wishes of the fans.

Yeah, some fans are so stuck up his backside they were too blind to see the 'quality' football Liverpool played this season. I think it's time you got over it.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

The thing is,
It wasnt just one bad season......

It was tbh. Posted this earlier. Only last season stands out.

2004-2005 Champions league winners. Carling cup runners up. 5th place in league but still qualified as winners for CL.

2005-2006 Fa Cup win. CL last 16. 3rd place in league with 82 points.

2006-2007 CL runners up.3rd place in league with 68 points.

2007-2008 CL semi final. 4th in league 76 points.

2008-2009 Cl qtr final. 2nd in league with 86 points.

2009-2010 Cl group stages. 7th in league with 63 points.

Mr Alan

rarnes1 wrote: »

It was tbh. Posted this earlier. Only last season stands out.

2004-2005 Champions league winners. Carling cup runners up. 5th place in league but still qualified as winners for CL.

2005-2006 Fa Cup win. CL last 16. 3rd place in league with 82 points.

2006-2007 CL runners up.3rd place in league with 68 points.

2007-2008 CL semi final. 4th in league 76 points.

2008-2009 Cl qtr final. 2nd in league with 86 points.

2009-2010 Cl group stages. 7th in league with 63 points.

Quoted for Kippy and happyoutscan. And yes kippy, of course Rafa made many mistakes in his time at the club, he himself has admitted as much. There literally isn't a manager in the world who doesn't though.

K-9

Pighead wrote: »

06/07 was a bad season Al. You're letting a run to the Champions League final cloud the fact that Liverpool had a very disappointing league campaign.

Plainly ridiculous.

thebullkf

sorry if its a repost but
anyone alse feeling great respect for Rafa after his 96k donation re:hillsborough?


1000 per person.


fair fcuks to him.

thebullkf

thebullkf wrote: »

sorry if its a repost but
anyone alse feeling great respect for Rafa after his 96k donation re:hillsborough?


1000 per person.


fair fcuks to him.

Not even the biggest Rafa hater could deny that was very generous.

Chucky the tree

Pighead wrote: »

Go through the match threads of any of those games from last season and see how many Pool fans are giving out about Rafa's negativity, poor substitutions etc. It seems to me that all the Rafa failings have been swept under the carpet in favour of a "It's all the owners/Stevie G/Fink Goodies fault" type campaign.

I'm late here, but I think the majority of liverpool fans have swept his faults under the carpet in favour of a "Rafa might be bad but jesus Roy, MON, Kenny or Klinnsman will be far worse" type of campaign.

Do you really think any of those managers over the next 5 years either of those managers will win us a CL, reach another final, a semi-final, have 3 top 3 finishes in the PL and amass our hight points total ever in the PL?

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not even the biggest Rafa hater could deny that was very generous.

Ah stoop,
Fair play to his PR guy, he's as good as his contract negotiations guy.........
Rafa has just taken 6 million big ones from the club as well as his wages for the past 6 years.........
Fair enough, nice touch, I've bought a pints for people on leaving dos in jobs before, did it get published globally, not a ****ing chance.

It wasnt just ONE bad season - champions league performances have been on the slide in the past 4 years - cant ye see the trend there.
Last year - yes, a great season but theres no medals for second in the league and when you look at the position the team WERE in at the turn of the year and the points dropped on the way to second you have to ask could he handle the pressure. He plainly couldnt. Hence his fachts rant.
Yeah, every manager makes mistakes. This managers mistakes have cost ye very dearly this season though.

Fair enough, some love Rafa but he wasnt there as a charity case, he was paid to do a job.

Glico Man

Rafa also restored some pride for us in Europe. Rafa built up our reputation as one of the most feared teams in Europe, no one wanted to draw us when it came to the knockout phase. And at one point we were ranked by UEFA as the number one team in Europe

Rafa had flaws like many other managers, but his pluses far out weighed these. Who amongst us can honestly say they could have imagined players like Reina, Mascherano, Alonso and Torres at the club when we had players like Diao, Diouf, Traore, Biscan etc playing for us?

kippy

aaronh007 wrote: »

Rafa had flaws like many other managers, but his pluses far out weighed these. Who amongst us can honestly say they could have imagined players like Reina, Mascherano, Alonso and Torres at the club when we had players like Diao, Diouf, Traore, Biscan etc playing for us?

If you look at the money the club had to spend in the early years of Rafas tenure as opposed to those before him, you'll see why ye were able to attract players of that caliber

(by the way, you've picked the absolute best of Rafas Reign and the Worst of the ones that came before him which is in no way fair........)

kippy

kippy wrote: »

Ah stoop,
Fair play to his PR guy, he's as good as his contract negotiations guy.........
Rafa has just taken 6 million big ones from the club as well as his wages for the past 6 years.........
Fair enough, nice touch, I've bought a pints for people on leaving dos in jobs before, did it get published globally, not a ****ing chance.

It wasnt just ONE bad season - champions league performances have been on the slide in the past 4 years - cant ye see the trend there.
Last year - yes, a great season but theres no medals for second in the league and when you look at the position the team WERE in at the turn of the year and the points dropped on the way to second you have to ask could he handle the pressure. He plainly couldnt. Hence his fachts rant.
Yeah, every manager makes mistakes. This managers mistakes have cost ye very dearly this season though.

Fair enough, some love Rafa but he wasnt there as a charity case, he was paid to do a job.

Your damned if you do and damned if you don't eh?

You have a serious bias in every post btw.

Glico Man

I'm simply stating that while those players were there, who could've imagined that we would have the calibre of player that those I mentioned are...

And Houllier spent quite a lot of money before Rafa took over.

Kess73

kippy wrote: »

Ah stoop,
Fair play to his PR guy, he's as good as his contract negotiations guy.........
Rafa has just taken 6 million big ones from the club as well as his wages for the past 6 years.........
Fair enough, nice touch, I've bought a pints for people on leaving dos in jobs before, did it get published globally, not a ****ing chance.

It wasnt just ONE bad season - champions league performances have been on the slide in the past 4 years - cant ye see the trend there.
Last year - yes, a great season but theres no medals for second in the league and when you look at the position the team WERE in at the turn of the year and the points dropped on the way to second you have to ask could he handle the pressure. He plainly couldnt. Hence his fachts rant.
Yeah, every manager makes mistakes. This managers mistakes have cost ye very dearly this season though.

Fair enough, some love Rafa but he wasnt there as a charity case, he was paid to do a job.

I don't see why his donations cannot be described as being generous. A person saying that is not saying anything about the man as a manager of a football club, but as a person.

His 96k donation to the Hillsborough support group was a generous act, as was his donation to Alder Hey, as were the other donations he made around the city to other groups. At this point it is looking like the figure for the donations is somewhere between 600k and a million pounds so it is hardly a nothing amount at this point. It is something the man did not have to do, and regardless of whether you think it was a PR stunt or not, it is money that will go towards some very worthy causes and go towards helping people so in my eyes it was a classy thing for the man to have done.

K-9

To quote the old Rafa thread, "haters going to hate".

kippy

aaronh007 wrote: »

I'm simply stating that while those players were there, who could've imagined that we would have the calibre of player that those I mentioned are...

And Houllier spent quite a lot of money before Rafa took over.

1.
Liverpools top five transfer fees paid have ALL been in the Rafa era.
Torres, Keane,Mascherano, Johnson, Aqualani.

2.
Comparing the best of Rafas players versus the worst or Houlliers is very unfair, no matter what your excuses are.

3.
I am biased because I dont particularly like Rafa. Well as much as not liking someone without ever meeting him goes anyway. I am also very aware that the owners/upper levels of the club have much to answer for as well but they are tougher to oust.

4.
Yes, the donations were generous. Why publicize them?

5.
I think certain people give the guy way too much credit. I probably dont give him enough, thats just me. I expect more for the money the club backs him with/pays him with.
Yeah, he won a CL and an FA cup. He's been getting paid exceptionally well since and had up until recently has had the resources available to him.

6.
Id have to ask the really pro Rafa heads how long more should he have gotten bearing in mind no one knows what players would have left had he still been there.

7.
We are still talking about Rafa. Fcuk that. My last word on him.
History.

Pighead

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Do you really think any of those managers over the next 5 years either of those managers will win us a CL, reach another final, a semi-final, have 3 top 3 finishes in the PL and amass our hight points total ever in the PL?

No I don't. but by the same token i don't think Rafa would have either. Do Ithink another manager could have equalled or bettered Rafa's record given the same time and money? I definitely don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility. Maybe not in Europe, but league wise most definitely.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

We are still talking about Rafa. Fcuk that. My last word on him.
History.

Thank fcuk for that

K-9

kippy wrote: »

4.
Yes, the donations were generous. Why publicize them?

You should read over the thread again. He didn't.