Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

Is this a new tactic Al, You tell me what I know and I agree?;)

Well in the time since you've returned back here, i've gathered you're not a retard. So if you've watched Liverpool, which considering you talk about them constantly, i can only assume you have-i know you've seen mascherano contribute forward passes every game he plays. Granted he's no Pirlo, but combined with his defensive abilities-this is what has him regarded by most who aren't on the wind up, as one of the best DEFENSIVE midfielders on the planet. But again, you know all this.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

I've never rated him, too negative for my liking, most of his passing is backwards or sideways, he is good at breaking up play though. I think when you sell him sell him he will be replaced with a creative midfileder.

Not much point having creative midfielders if you can't get the ball back.

ShamoBuc

The Muppet wrote: »

By whome?

you are clearly showing your knowledge of football if you have to ask!

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

<edit>
Hey Al, google this and you'll see there are plenty more (including liverpool fans) that dont know it either.

"mascherano cannot play a forward pass"

</edit>

you're so much better than that **** Muppet. you know that proves nothing.

google "mascherano best defensive midfielder on the planet" and you get around 35,000 hits, your search turns up about 7,000 (the first few being from Utd sites :P).

neither proves anything though obviously, google "elvis is still alive" and you get about 4,000,000 results.

you were doing better yesterday with your fake articles tbh.

tommyhaas

In fairness quiet a few people dont rate Mascherano. My 11 year old cousin and his mates think he's useless, I mean 'how many goals did he score last year'...

Headshot

any news on Pellegrini

im getting a bit impatient :pac:

Handsome Bob

tommyhaas wrote: »

In fairness quiet a few people dont rate Mascherano. My 11 year old cousin and his mates think he's useless, I mean 'how many goals did he score last year'...

That says it all about what knippers value in a football player. They are not interested in the bloke who works his bollocks off and who does the ugly work , they are only interested in the flash goal scorers. In conclusion, a knipper's opinion on football = ****.

wobblyknees

The Muppet wrote: »

I've never rated him, too negative for my liking, most of his passing is backwards or sideways, he is good at breaking up play though. I think when you sell him sell him he will be replaced with a creative midfileder.

The Muppet wrote: »

By whome?

The Muppet wrote: »

Give it a rest AL theres nothing sly about it, I don't rate him because he can't make a decent forward pass, a pretty important attribute for a midfielder I would say.

The Muppet wrote: »

Is this a new tactic Al, You tell me what I know and I agree?;)


<edit>
Hey Al, google this and you'll see there are plenty more (including liverpool fans) that dont know it either.

"mascherano cannot play a forward pass"

</edit>

Opta Stats 2009-10

Tacklers, Team, Tackles, Success rate
Mascherano, Liverpool, 178, 81%
Diamé, Wigan, 176, 71%
Muamba, Bolton, 152, 67%
Lucas, Liverpool, 148, 69%
Petrov, Aston Villa, 143, 76%

Passers, Team, Passes, Accuracy
Ferguson, Birmingham, 2169, 80%
Mascherano, Liverpool, 2115, 83%
Lampard, Chelsea, 1927, 81%
Terry, Chelsea, 1906, 87%
Lucas, Liverpool, 1832, 84%

101001

LZ5by5 wrote: »

a knipper's opinion on football = ****.

I was reading that going.... 'where the **** is this guy from. And what the f*ck is a kay nipper (knipper)'. I sir am an idiot. Massive pronunciation fail.

Opta Stats 2009-10

knew someone was going to do that. according to stats Lucas is the greatest midfielder to grace green grass... Which he is like

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

you're so much better than that **** Muppet. you know that proves nothing.

google "mascherano best defensive midfielder on the planet" and you get around 35,000 hits, your search turns up about 7,000 (the first few being from Utd sites :P).

neither proves anything though obviously, google "elvis is still alive" and you get about 4,000,000 results.

you were doing better yesterday with your fake articles tbh.

I though you would have sussed it's relevance Al. It is that my views on Macherano are quite widely held disproving your earlier point that my comments about him were noting more than a sly dig at the Club.

I already said he was good defensively , so is Darren Fletcher, I don't think he's one of the best midfielders on the planet either.

tommyhaas

LZ5by5 wrote: »

That says it all about what knippers value in a football player. They are not interested in the bloke who works his bollocks off and who does the ugly work , they are only interested in the flash goal scorers. In conclusion, a knipper's opinion on football = ****.

Yea thats what Im getting at, people who dont rate mascherano are the people who judge players on similar credentials, from the few mins they see on MOTD, the same way a kid rates players by seeing how many times he's won goal of the month...

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

you were doing better yesterday with your fake articles tbh.

I still can't figure how that was rumbled, I was sure it would have caused a kerfuffle when posting it.:D

ShamoBuc

The Muppet wrote: »

I still can't figure how that was rumbled, I was sure it would have caused a kerfuffle when posting it.:D

Does that mean you try to cause a kerfuffle with your posts - never:rolleyes:

The Muppet

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Does that mean you try to cause a kerfuffle with your posts - never:rolleyes:

No it means some of us have a sense of humour.

wobblyknees

101001 wrote: »

I was reading that going.... 'where the **** is this guy from. And what the f*ck is a kay nipper (knipper)'. I sir am an idiot. Massive pronunciation fail.

knew someone was going to do that. according to stats Lucas is the greatest midfielder to grace green grass... Which he is like

No, the stats say Lucas is a good tackler and a good passer of the ball. Which he is like.

K-9

101001 wrote: »

knew someone was going to do that. according to stats Lucas is the greatest midfielder to grace green grass... Which he is like

How many goals did he score?

daithijjj

wobblyknees wrote: »

No, the stats say Lucas is a good tackler and a good passer of the ball. Which he is like.

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein

[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything. ~Gregg Easterbrook

[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale



Statistics can prove my arse could be fairly competitive at this years national banjo championships. Thats the intrinsic problem with stats. This post is not really directed at you wobblyknees (or even any player), i just abhor stats when equated to football. When someone starts making stats that include everything like 'sh1t cross', 'lost the ball', 'had an absolute stinker', then i will sit up and take notice. But this is not likely to happen (if the stats are to be believed :pac::pac::pac:) because, in the main, stats are rolled out to relieve a degree of uncertainty.

Masch is one of the best in the world at what he does best, he is very very average in what alonso did best the season before last. The league table is the only stat i have any interest in tbh. Lucas is a good young player who has the potential to get better but for a title challenging side he would not be up to the job for 38 games. Ive never criticised 'him' once, id be far more inclined to criticise the men who have got the club into this position where it depends on a player like him. And in fairness to lucas, he has gotten better with games. When he came into the team initially he was complete muck for 3 months solid but got through that. Personally, i think babel would do the same if he was given the same run.
[/FONT]

tommyhaas

tommyhaas wrote: »

In fairness quiet a few people dont rate Mascherano. My 11 year old cousin and his mates think he's useless, I mean 'how many goals did he score last year'...

wobblyknees

daithijjj wrote: »

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein

[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything. ~Gregg Easterbrook

[/FONT][FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale



Statistics can prove my arse could be fairly competitive at this years national banjo championships. Thats the intrinsic problem with stats. This post is not really directed at you wobblyknees (or even any player), i just abhor stats when equated to football. When someone starts making stats that include everything like 'sh1t cross', 'lost the ball', 'had an absolute stinker', then i will sit up and take notice. But this is not likely to happen (if the stats are to be believed :pac::pac::pac:) because, in the main, stats are rolled out to relieve a degree of uncertainty.

Masch is one of the best in the world at what he does best, he is very very average in what alonso did best the season before last. The league table is the only stat i have any interest in tbh. Lucas is a good young player who has the potential to get better but for a title challenging side he would not be up to the job for 38 games. Ive never criticised 'him' once, id be far more inclined to criticise the men who have got the club into this position where it depends on a player like him. And in fairness to lucas, he has gotten better with games. When he came into the team initially he was complete muck for 3 months solid but got through that. Personally, i think babel would do the same if he was given the same run.
[/FONT]

Well as much as the average fan abhors stats, they are part and parcel of football and to dismiss them is bordering on ignorance. Just ask Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho and Rafa Benitez how useful they find (much more detailed) prozone or opta stats. They use them day in and day out as it means they can now have ten pairs of eyes on every player at every game. Poor managers, journalists and analysts (jamie redknapp anyone) focus in on the one sh*t cross or bad pass made by a player as its the easiest thing to remember imo, whereas managers at the highest level need more and more detailed pieces of player and position specific information to assist them in this day and age.

I know stats aren't the be all and end all as for example, there isn't a stat for pain in the ass or poor attitude towards team mates, but i will always take a few cast iron facts over a few lazy comments on the internet.

wobblyknees

K-9 wrote: »

How many goals did he score?

Not as many as Drogba or Lampard. Go and have a look at the opta stats.

Headshot

according to the rags Hodgson will be appointed this week

PFL

Headshot wrote: »

according to the rags Hodgson will be appointed this week

And Pellegrini to be named as well - these rumours are head wrecking I wish it was just confirmed and we can get on with pre-season and re-building.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-manager-latest-Manuel-Pellegrini-agent-There-is-an-offer-from-England-article479309.html

SlickRic

i'm delighted at this stage with either. more so Pellegrini tbh.

forgetting momentarily what's gone on before with Rafa of course.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

PFL

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree 100% if we get 25 mil + - take it, run and let him go.

Mr Alan

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think that's absolute bollox. When talking about a player, you can only judge them on the position they play in and the attributes they require for that job. Vidic is one of the best players in the world, wouldn't fancy him pinging 60 yard passes all over the shop etc.

wobblyknees

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree, he needs to improve on his shot stopping and commanding of his area before he can truly be considered great.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mister men

PFL wrote: »

Agree 100% if we get 25 mil + - take it, run and let him go.

Another 25 mill for the owners then. How much of that do you think the new yes man (sorry manager) will see?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

PFL

Mister men wrote: »

Another 25 mill for the owners then. How much of that do you think the new yes man (sorry manager) will see?

While I wouldn't trust the Yanks with anything I do believe any money raised will be put back into the team - a fire sale of players will only devalue the club further, any new owners want to buy a genuine prospect - selling star players and not reinvesting won't bring them the return they're looking for - (Not that the f**kers deserve a cent)

Mr Alan

Mascherano's passing is decent though, its not Xabi-esque, but they play different roles in the team. Scholes can't tackle to save his life, never stopped him being one of the best around, simple fact is he could do just enough to get by in that department, but it was more the role of others in the team, while he excelled at what he did.

Mister men

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So by your standards Maradona was'nt a great player because he did'nt defend. Or maybe Buffon does'nt score enough goals. Bollocks. Mascherano is great at what he does. The best in the World at the moment and add to that the fact he is next to never injured is a bonus. The man is a huge player for Liverpool and to be perfectly truthful 25m is an insult for him.

SlickRic

in his position, and in his role in the team, Masch needs to...

1) get around the pitch quickly.
2) have a good reading of the game so as to snuff out danger.
3) have a strong tackle.
4) be able to pass the ball.

not much else.

he gets around the pitch excellently.

he reads the game fine, not brilliantly, but such is his speed, he gets to the danger quicker than most.

he is one of the best tacklers in the game; giving away his fair share of fouls, but he manages to successfully break up play a huge amount.

despite what many will tell you he can pass the ball; not like (as Al said) a Pirlo, but he's sufficient.

over-rated my hole. you'll always get some club fans of players saying someone is the greatest in the world and overselling it, but i think in general people get it bang on about Masch.

after all, Barca wouldn't be after him for nothing either.

Kess73

Reina must be **** if overall ability is the barometer and not being as good as you can be for your position. Gets no goals, brutal tackles won %, all the git does is stand in goals.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mash is a top top player but not irreplaceable like Torres.

Anyway if he really wants to leave, let him go.

Players that don't want to play for us should leave at the right price.

Anyway, I'd imagine the Liverpool players in question will see who is appointed before making decisions on their futures.

SlickRic

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

so Scholes, judged on overall ability, is vastly over-rated then?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Kess73

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well if a player is to be judged by all possible aspects of their position, then there are suddenly a hell of a lot more overrated players out there.

Taking that logic pretty much the whole squad is overrated bar Reina and Torres.

wobblyknees

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think I get it now. A midfielder like Mascherano sould be judged on all aspects of Midfieldery!

mike65

Paul Tompkins reports that Pelligrinis agent is saying there is an offer earlier today, now the papers report Hodgson with the backdrop of Capellos departure if England don't win the final group game (Roy must be the most likely to get the job), Mark Hughes is reported as Fulhams next boss by the NOTW

Mr Alan

Torres is ****e at penos, as a striker i reckon that makes him rubbish

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mr Alan

but Mascherano is a good passer, so why exactly can't he be judged as one of the best defensive midfielders in the world?

wobblyknees

mike65 wrote: »

Paul Tompkins reports that Pelligrinis agent is saying there is an offer earlier today, now the papers report Hodgson with the backdrop of Capellos departure if England don't win the final group game (Roy must be the most likely to get the job), Mark Hughes is reported as Fulhams next boss by the NOTW

Reported by a few. Do you think the tabloids all rang each other to confirm lead stories to give themselves more credibility?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mr Alan

its actually true, he's awful at them.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mr Alan

i agree, so we all agree, Masch is one of the best defensive midfielders on the planet