Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

wobblyknees

Rosco1982 wrote: »

The reason I think that is we don't have much room to increase our wage bill, it's already running at the top end of the range that would be considered prudent and transfer funds will be limited to what we raise in sales.

My preference would be that we get in a new coach for the long term, sold off all the big money players (and the rubbish ones) and focused on buying top notch talent in their early twenties with a view to challenging for the league in three years time. Playing for fourth is not what football should be about.

Is the wage bill not the 5th highest in the league as it stands? Are you suggesting Roy should over or under achieve based on this? Out of interest, which big money players do you think Roy should sell? And are you suggesting the top notch talent should be English or does it matter, as the downside could be over inflated prices and wages for English players.

ilovelamp2000

wobblyknees wrote: »

Is the wage bill not the 5th highest in the league as it stands? Are you suggesting Roy should over or under achieve based on this? Out of interest, which big money players do you think Roy should sell? And are you suggesting the top notch talent should be English or does it matter, as the downside could be over inflated prices and wages for English players.

Nobody can tell where our wage bill stands at the moment - I know plenty of articles have made that claim but that speaks to the quality of journalism more than anything else. There is only one way to find out the wage bill and that's via the company accounts which come out a year after the season finishes. Here' a synopsis of the most recent situation in the Premier League:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/19/premier-league-finances

Given we had a 100.5m wage bill in 08/09 and gave pay rises to a few players, not to mention adding Aquilani and Johnson on significant money it's unlikely that the wage bill decreased last year. (So despite the restrictions that people constantly bang on about we increased our wage bill every year under Benitez.) We don't really know how others wage bills are so at best you could speculate we were fifth. That said I think the defence of Benitez based on a wage bill being lower than others is clutching at straws, on average it's easier to win with a bigger wage bill but it doesn't mean we can't finish ahead of teams with a higher wage bill (United won three titles in a row while being outspent by Chelsea)

What's clear is that we massively underperformed last season, I think the change of manager will help to bring us back to where we should be since it was quite obvious the squad weren't playing for Benitez. We're good enough to get back into the top four.

I think we'll have to sell Mascherano since Benitez never tied up the loose ends in his contract (I wonder why ....), I think he'll be the only big name to go this summer since as I said before it's my belief that the priority is to get straight back into the CL and we're not going to do that by clearing the decks this summer.

I don't care what nationality the players that we sign are, since the rule on home grown players will not be coming in anytime soon. We should be looking to keep our wage bill at a manageable level (around where it is now) so there's a balancing act to do - that's what Rafa's complaints were about. A number of clubs have some serious trimming of wage bills to do in order to meet UEFA's financial fair play guidelines (Chelsea, Aston Villa and soon probably Man City too) we're in reasonable shape in that regard and I think the prudence will pay off in the long term.

BOHtox

I'm glad we got Hodgson. I think he will get the best out of the players he will have. I reckon we will get Europa league next year(6th?,7th?) and might even win a trophy

~Rebel~

BOHtox wrote: »

I'm glad we got Hodgson. I think he will get the best out of the players he will have. I reckon we will get Europa league next year(6th?,7th?) and might even win a trophy

Despite the events of the last year, we REALLY should be pushing for 4th spot.

shotamoose

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I think we'll have to sell Mascherano since Benitez never tied up the loose ends in his contract (I wonder why ....)

Obviously because he was always planning to leave and wanted to undermine the club by ensuring he could sign one of our best players on the cheap. This is the ONLY explanation that makes sense.

Leiva

If the news is true then the one thing I am taking from it is that there is no Abu Dhabi buyers of LFC.

Think about it , if you were buying a club for a reported 560million surely you would be aiming for a Hiddink or similar manager to take charge .

NabyLadistheman

I reckon give him a chance. Everyone get behind. It was never going to be universally popular manager whoever was picked. It's more & likely to do a job until we get new owners and I think he will do a great job with limited resources. I think people need to lower there expectations

Dont be at yourself

I don't think he's the man for the job. His achievements on the continent and even with Fulham are overstated, and there are far better managers out there who could help us push on. Hodgson, at best, will steady the ship. At worst, he will preside over a fire-sale and be expected to perform miracles.

I hope he proves me wrong though!

mike65

Rafa Benitez last interview with Radio City (until the next one)

http://www.radiocity.co.uk/Article.asp?id=1852338 it may take a little while to load.

Former Liverpool FC manager Rafa Benitez speaks to Liverpool commentator Steve Hothersall, in a one hour interview exclusively for Radio City 96.7.

In this one of his last interviews before he departs for Milan Benitez talks openly of the highs and the lows of his reign at Anfield, including 'that' golf club incident between Craig Bellamy and John Arne Risse; together with recalling some of his favourite memories as Liverpool manager, including the Champions League win and FA Cup success.

Despite Liverpool’s performance this season, Rafa reveals that he still looks back at that historic night in Istanbul in 2005 and says "it will be the best ever Champions League final in history".

Benitez can reflect on his time at Anfield with pride, he hails the signing of Fernando Torres as one of his best, and also revealed that Torres thought it was a friend playing a joke on him when he called him to say he wanted to bring him to the legendry club.

dogbert27

torresistheman wrote: »

I think people need to lower there expectations

It says it all really. When the least expected is 4th spot and we get told to lower expectations we really are on a slippery slope.

LuckyLloyd

Well, at least we weren't burdened with O'Neill.

super_furry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, at least we weren't burdened with O'Neill.

That's the one silver lining to a very grey cloud - it could have been worse. I think we're going to have to get used to having some post-Souness type expectations.

Handsome Bob

Jesus lads sometimes I think you over-exagerrate the O'Neil hate, most likely born out of him daring to fight dirty in order to keep one of his best players at the club. How dare he like.

NabyLadistheman

dogbert27 wrote: »

It says it all really. When the least expected is 4th spot and we get told to lower expectations we really are on a slippery slope.

We finished seventh last season with probably a better squad than we will have for the season coming. So yes I do think we should lower our expectations

~Rebel~

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus lads sometimes I think you over-exagerrate the O'Neil hate, most likely born out of him daring to fight dirty in order to keep one of his best players at the club. How dare he like.

With Hodgson, I still have hope of overachievement and finding a few potential gems in the transfer market (though he obviously has his fair share of mistakes too), whereas with O Neil, he'll perform exactly averagely for the amount of money put in, and is not great at spotting a bargain.

Dont be at yourself

mike65 wrote: »

Rafa Benitez last interview with Radio City (until the next one)

http://www.radiocity.co.uk/Article.asp?id=1852338 it may take a little while to load.

Listening to it now in work. It's heartbreaking. So many fantastic memories.

noodler

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus lads sometimes I think you over-exagerrate the O'Neil hate, most likely born out of him daring to fight dirty in order to keep one of his best players at the club. How dare he like.

ding ding ding ding

Handsome Bob

~Rebel~ wrote: »

With Hodgson, I still have hope of overachievement and finding a few potential gems in the transfer market (though he obviously has his fair share of mistakes too), whereas with O Neil, he'll perform exactly averagely for the amount of money put in, and is not great at spotting a bargain.

What would you expect from the money he's been given at Villa? Granted he's had more to spend then Rafa over the past season or two but he still has to deal with the fact that he is managing Aston Villa, hardly a marquee name in comaprison to the "traditional" Top 4, now Man City and even Tottenham. There's only so many players he could attract without having a backer of City proportions prepared to pay metal wage packets.

There are very few capable of spotting a bargain for £6m or less these days, our recently departed manager included. Look, I prefer Roy over O'Neil, but I don't think O'Neil would have been the disaster that some people like to make out.

baltimore sun

I'm not too disheartened by this, he'll prob keep Lee on board and may well use Daglish for some help too.

He's done well at most of the clubs he has managed, (dont mention Blackburn)
and anything has to be better than last year, hopefully he'll get rid of the dead wood and bring in some hard working players that'll play with some pride, something many players didn't play with last season

I dont wanna see Gerrard or Torres or Benyoun go but no one player is bigger than LFC and if they dont wanna play for the club anymore then no point in keeping them, although re: Gerrard &Torres, they may well have some admiration for what Hodgson has done with the likes of Inter and the Swiss international team.

I'm behind the choice, I wouldn't have been behind O'Neill, no way.
I think Pelligrini would've been interesting but
the choice has been made and anyway look in the bright side, it coulda been worse, a lot worse, Mark Hughes or Sven

Kess73

argosy2006 wrote: »

just heard de news

Why would Gerrard be upset at the news? By all accounts he and Carra were Pro Roy for the job.

Kess73

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus lads sometimes I think you over-exagerrate the O'Neil hate, most likely born out of him daring to fight dirty in order to keep one of his best players at the club. How dare he like.

I cannot stand O'Neill for a different reason. It is not the most logical of reasons, but has nothing to do with the Barry incident and has been a dislike I have carried since he was a player.

~Rebel~

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What would you expect from the money he's been given at Villa? Granted he's had more to spend then Rafa over the past season or two but he still has to deal with the fact that he is managing Aston Villa, hardly a marquee name in comaprison to the "traditional" Top 4, now Man City and even Tottenham. There's only so many players he could attract without having a backer of City proportions prepared to pay metal wage packets.

There are very few capable of spotting a bargain for £6m or less these days, our recently departed manager included. Look, I prefer Roy over O'Neil, but I don't think O'Neil would have been the disaster that some people like to make out.

I would expect him to not leave the club with a threadbare squad who have to purposefully get themselves knocked out of the Uefa cup in order to try to maintain playing well in the league (and then proceed to go on a monumental losing run).

I would expect the league position to be exactly what he delivered, but would have hoped for more.

Difficulty spotting a bargain is one thing, but at least looking for one would be nice, rather then constantly splurging with overspending on 'known quantities'.

Things have gotten tougher at Villa over the past year with Man City's emergence, but that is a recent change.

The annual slump his teams suffer like clockwork where their challenge for 4th and 5th falls away each year is also worrying, that he cannot seem to rectify this problem. Time and time again he leaves his transfer dealings for the very last minute as well and scrambles to get bodies in, and still usually ends up with too small a usable squad for the season.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a bad manager, but he does seem to be very consistent in his failings as well as in his results (never really underachieving but similarly never overachieving.)

Kess73

I am still in the camp that is thinking/hoping that Roy is not getting the job.


Not that I think he is a bad manager or anything like that, in fact if he got the job I think he would work his ass off to improve the team, but I think there are better available choices out there that we could get for similar wages as to what Rafa was getting.


Will only believe Roy is the manager when I see it in the Echo and on the Official site.

NabyLadistheman

Kess73 wrote: »

Why would Gerrard be upset at the news? By all accounts he and Carra were Pro Roy for the job.

Where did you see this?

ilovelamp2000

Kess73 wrote: »

I am still in the camp that is thinking/hoping that Roy is not getting the job.


Not that I think he is a bad manager or anything like that, in fact if he got the job I think he would work his ass off to improve the team, but I think there are better available choices out there that we could get for similar wages as to what Rafa was getting.


Will only believe Roy is the manager when I see it in the Echo and on the Official site.

He has it Kess.

Kess73

Rosco1982 wrote: »

He has it Kess.

Don't make me come hunt you down.


Allow me the luxury of suspending my belief whilst I can.

Kess73

torresistheman wrote: »

Where did you see this?

Was just something on local radio where a comment was passed about some of the players liking the idea of an English manager, think it was Phil Thompson that said that the local players fancied Roy as manager.

SlickRic

Rosco1982 wrote: »

He has it Kess.

who says? i'm sure you're right, but anywhere official say it yet?

i'm still hoping Pelligrini gets it.

Hodgson is a safe option, so it wouldn't kill me to see him in the job.

just very meh for me.

ilovelamp2000

SlickRic wrote: »

who says? i'm sure you're right, but anywhere official say it yet?

i'm still hoping Pelligrini gets it.

Hodgson is a safe option, so it wouldn't kill me to see him in the job.

just very meh for me.

Nowhere official yet.

K-9

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Nowhere official yet.

Only source I've seen is this Koptalk fella.

Kess73

SlickRic wrote: »

who says? i'm sure you're right, but anywhere official say it yet?

i'm still hoping Pelligrini gets it.

Hodgson is a safe option, so it wouldn't kill me to see him in the job.

just very meh for me.

Hitzfeld, van Gaal, Pelligrini, and Rijkard, and in that order,would all be before Roy in terms of who I would love to see in the role.

In terms of the second or third tier, in terms of quality, of managers that could get the job, Roy would be the one I would prefer.

Like yourself, I would not be the end of the world for me to see Roy get the job, but it was also be a meh from me.

Unless it was to be a short term thing.

billymitchell

Sorry if this was posted already, but just to give us non Hodgson belivers a bit of hope!!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6226231,00.html

Skysports.com understands Liverpool have lined up a move for Galatasaray boss Frank Rijkaard as they search for a new manager.

The Reds are still hunting a replacement for Rafa Benitez following the Spaniard's departure from Anfield earlier this month.

A number of names have been linked with the Anfield hot-seat, including Fulham boss Roy Hodgson and former Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini and now Rijkaard has come under consideration from the Liverpool board.

Former Holland international Rijkaard is regarded as one of the best coaches in Europe following his success at Barcelona, where he won two Spanish titles and the UEFA Champions League during his tenure at Camp Nou.
Compensation

Sources in Turkey claim Liverpool have approached Galatasaray twice in the last week to seek permission to talk to Rijkaard, but that the Turkish club have rejected their overtures.

Rijkaard, who took over at Galatasaray in June 2009, has just a year to run on his current deal, meaning Liverpool may not have to fork out a high compensation fee if they can agree a deal with Galatasaray for the 47-year-old.

The Dutchman is believed to be keen on managing in the Premier League at some stage in his career, but Galatasaray are reluctant to lose his services.

Liverpool are keen to sort out their managerial situation as soon as possible and they could be forced look elsewhere if Galatasaray fail to release Rijkaard

ilovelamp2000

K-9 wrote: »

Only source I've seen is this Koptalk fella.

Normally unreliable and they generally steal their info from elsewhere - but they do have it right this time.

That's what I'm led to believe anyway.

LuckyLloyd

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus lads sometimes I think you over-exagerrate the O'Neil hate, most likely born out of him daring to fight dirty in order to keep one of his best players at the club. How dare he like.

Listen buddy, there has been detailed reasoning posted in this thread (and in the Aston Villa thread!) for why he is overrated by a sympathetic media and has ultimately disappointed given the resources he has had at his disposal during his time at Aston Villa; and for why the projections of him as worthy of a shot at a bigger job are wide of the mark.

My position on the facts of his record would stand irrespective of anything to do with the Gareth Barry transfer saga from two summers ago.

It is for the former, and completely nothing to do with the latter, that I am genuinely relieved that he is not the next manager of our football club.

billymitchell

Personally, I think us getting in Roy Hodgson is on a par with Burnley appointing Brian Laws. An accountants decision!!

Mr Alan

anyone who thinks that, by the looks of it, we won't end up paying about 10m to replace our existing manager with an far inferior one is deluded. unbelievable stuff really.

wobblyknees

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Nobody can tell where our wage bill stands at the moment - I know plenty of articles have made that claim but that speaks to the quality of journalism more than anything else.

How about Deloitte's Annual Review of Football Finance? Does that hold any weight?

Rosco1982 wrote: »

There is only one way to find out the wage bill and that's via the company accounts which come out a year after the season finishes. Here' a synopsis of the most recent situation in the Premier League:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/19/premier-league-finances

Here's another way to find out who had the highest wage bills:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/chelsea/5436621/Chelsea-the-Premier-Leagues-biggest-spenders-with-172m-wage-bill.html

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Given we had a 100.5m wage bill in 08/09 and gave pay rises to a few players, not to mention adding Aquilani and Johnson on significant money it's unlikely that the wage bill decreased last year. (So despite the restrictions that people constantly bang on about we increased our wage bill every year under Benitez.)

I for one am not 'banging on' about restrictions. I prefer to focus in on the facts. Such as none of the top wage bills decreased. In fact the United and Chelsea wage bills usually increased twice as much as Liverpools according to the same Deloitte reports.

Rosco1982 wrote: »

We don't really know how others wage bills are so at best you could speculate we were fifth.

Yes we do, a quick search online and you'll find accurate references to reports such as the Deloitte review or others, like the Guardian offering information based on end of year accounts.

Rosco1982 wrote: »

That said I think the defence of Benitez based on a wage bill being lower than others is clutching at straws, on average it's easier to win with a bigger wage bill but it doesn't mean we can't finish ahead of teams with a higher wage bill (United won three titles in a row while being outspent by Chelsea)

Forget defending Benitez based on a wage bill as he's no longer manager. Think about the fact the club has conistently spent less, net than the top teams in the league on transfer fees, and as per the attached reports, wages. There is no argument whatsoever that higher transfer fees and wages lead to higher league positions and trophies. Leeds and Portsmouth are classic examples of this. Also, you seem to forget that United were the highest spending team on players and wages for 10 years and more, and also that as soon as Chelsea decided to outspend United on players and wages, they won the league. Coincidence? No, is it possible for an outstanding manager to over achieve? Of course it is, but this would be the exception.

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What's clear is that we massively underperformed last season, I think the change of manager will help to bring us back to where we should be since it was quite obvious the squad weren't playing for Benitez. We're good enough to get back into the top four.

What's clear to me is, even with Torres missing large chunks of the season, the team underperformed for one year. Even Gerard Houllier was given 2 - 3 years to turn things around.

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I think we'll have to sell Mascherano since Benitez never tied up the loose ends in his contract (I wonder why ....), I think he'll be the only big name to go this summer since as I said before it's my belief that the priority is to get straight back into the CL and we're not going to do that by clearing the decks this summer.

So let me get this straight, on one hand you are questioning the quality of journalism, but on the other hand you are making throwaway comments like this? Mascherano himself has admitted his head was turned by Barcelona last year. Was this the fault of Benitez or did he in fact work hard to keep him at the club?

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I don't care what nationality the players that we sign are, since the rule on home grown players will not be coming in anytime soon.

I asked the question as you talked about signing the best young players around. To me benitez had made it quite clear this was his strategy yet had found it difficult to attract the best young English players due to high transfer fees and wages. Was he lying?

Rosco1982 wrote: »

We should be looking to keep our wage bill at a manageable level (around where it is now) so there's a balancing act to do - that's what Rafa's complaints were about.

Are you saying the wage bill as it stands is at a manageable level? If that's the case, did Benitez not do a good job and if so, what were Rafa's complaints about exactly?

Rosco1982 wrote: »

A number of clubs have some serious trimming of wage bills to do in order to meet UEFA's financial fair play guidelines (Chelsea, Aston Villa and soon probably Man City too) we're in reasonable shape in that regard and I think the prudence will pay off in the long term.

The reason clubs have to trim wage bills is due to the fact that wages cannot go above a % of turnover. This points to the fact that Chelsea, Aston Villa and Man City have all spent a HUGE amount of money on wages in recent times. I will say though, that many clubs across europe have creative accountants in place making sure they keep below these limits.

wobblyknees

K-9 wrote: »

Only source I've seen is this ****etalk fella.

They should create a big **** off stickie to highlight the fact that this s*n loving ****etalk fella is a liar, scam artist and is completely unreliable with his made up and stolen 'insider' information.

koptalkinsider.wordpress.com

wobblyknees

More feel good news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/10409916.stm

He's not my no.1 canditate but If Roy Hodgson gets the job I'll be 100%behind him.

We are hardly a big draw at the moment so we were probably unlikely to get a top top class manager.

It's sad to see him written off by so many here already before a ball is kicked :rolleyes: Not suprising though. Interestingly many of them are the same who wanted Rafa out - makes you wonder. There really should be an IQ test for sf applicants, especially this thread.

I'm sure the crowd at Anfield will be right behind him on the opening day (if he gets the job) and a good result v Arsenal and it's onwards and upwards for Woy

mike65

RAWK is hilarious on Hodgsons likely arrival. I know I should'nt keep reading but it draws me back, just to gorp open mouthed at the incestuous madness.

wobblyknees

mike65 wrote: »

RAWK is hilarious on Hodgsons likely arrival. I know I should'nt keep reading but it draws me back, just to gorp open mouthed at the incestuous madness.

I take it they are happy then?

~Rebel~

christ i fuckin' love Rafa! - just such a lovely gent of a man!

MementoMori

Colour me underwhelmed.

The only thing is that I reckon it will be a relatively short-term appointment with new owners coming in. Hope he steadies the ship a bit.

£5m for Benayoun aint the worst price considering his age but going to Chelsea is a bit of a p.isser.

Five weeks yesterday to the first competitive game.

Apparently some of the youths are due back for pre-season training pretty soon - either next week or the week after.

Dagger and Soto are on their hols now.

Skittles was immense yesterday for the Slovaks and Maxi has done well for the Argies

Wouldn't be that massively gutted if spain went out today to give Nando more rest.

Rafa Roy out

Mister men

Mr Alan wrote: »

anyone who thinks that, by the looks of it, we won't end up paying about 10m to replace our existing manager with an far inferior one is deluded. unbelievable stuff really.

It's completley unbelievable. I'm stunned that the club is even considering replacing one of the top managers in World football with a nobody and we have to stump up 10m for the pleasure.:( Things just go from bad to worse.

Mister men

mike65 wrote: »

RAWK is hilarious on Hodgsons likely arrival. I know I should'nt keep reading but it draws me back, just to gorp open mouthed at the incestuous madness.

Fantastic forum. Beats some of the clap trap on here.

mike65

You think? Its like crazy cult to my eyes. If you are not from Liverpool you are untrustworthy and no nothing of the club, if you have less than 1000 posts you are probably a stooge for Gillett and Hicks, if you suggest the manager just gone was not the best in the history of the game you are traduced and called a cvnt, if you express hope in the next manager (if he is English) you are traduced and called a cvnt. Any player who is might leave for professional reasons is also a cvnt as are all ex-players who pop up expressing a view not officially approved by a RAWK news-speak committee.

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

You think? Its like crazy cult to my eyes. If you are not from Liverpool you are untrustworthy and no nothing of the club, if you have less than 1000 posts you are probably a stooge for Gillett and Hicks, if you suggest the manager just gone was not the best in the history of the game you are traduced and called a cvnt, if you express hope in the next manager (if he is English) you are traduced and called a cvnt. Any player who is might leave for professional reasons is also a cvnt as are all ex-players who pop up expressing a view not officially approved by a RAWK news-speak committee.

They might be onto something with that......:p

Melion

2 mentions of Rafa's donation :rolleyes:

Just shows what an absolute legend the man is.

5ForKeeps

Melion wrote: »

2 mentions of Rafa's donation :rolleyes:

Just shows what an absolute legend the man is.

The man is Liverpool Legend!

http://podcast.bauerradio.com/bigcity/radiocity/main_site/city_rafa_tfw.mp3

Por Favor Senor Benitez!