Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

wobblyknees

rarnes1 wrote: »

And Lucas set the winner up didn't he?

Doesn't matter, it was a nutty decision to bring him on. 20/20 hindsight from the internet pro license brigade is a wonderful thing.

stumpypeeps

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Ferguson was tea bagging Ronaldo for 5 seasons.

Does his missus know about this?

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd prefer to sell the pair than have any manager come in have to answer to them.

Both players have played their best football for us I feel.

I'd be sad to see either go but it might be time especially if we get good cash for Gerrard. Once the cash was used for players of course

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

If thats what it takes to get the best from them.

Ferguson was tea bagging Ronaldo for 5 seasons. He repayed him in goals.

Not really true though, the goals part anyway. I am sure some United fan can say whether I am right or not, but I thought that Ronaldo only started banging in the goals big time in his last three seasons and in his first three seasons he was nothing special in terms of goals.


As for the tea bagging....well maybe Mr Ferguson was doing that for the full six years.:D

tommyhaas

stumpypeeps wrote: »

If thats what it takes to get the best from them.

Ferguson was tea bagging Ronaldo for 5 seasons. He repayed him in goals.

Isint that how Newcastle appointed managers for years, too appease Shearer? How'd that work out for them?

Handsome Bob

wobblyknees wrote: »

How about taking Gerrard off against Everton and bringing on Lucas?

I'm not getting into this argument, 9/10 that change would not have reaped such benefits.

In general, I have a beef with someone who waits until the last 20 mins or so to make a change, and when he does do it it's not even the change that should happen.

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

How good a player was in the past does not matter if the player is not at that level anymore.

Gerrard has lost a lot of pace over the last 18 months, and he is not the sort of player who could reinvent himself as a sitting midfielder who could pick pinpoint passes, he has never had the discipline or game intelligence to do that the way players like Alonso can.

So no doubts about some of his big moments in the past and what they were worth to the club, but time catches up with all players and when it does, then need to be moved on or retired.

If a club was mad enough to offer big money for him, £25 million upwards, at this stage in his career I would take the money, but I doubt if any club would want to spend big money on a player who has been nothing other than awful since the season before last season ended.

Maybe he can indeed pick up his game under a new manager, but I think it will be more of the same sulking if things are not going his way next season.

If he does stay at Liverpool, I hope your version is how it turns out and not mine.

I think the one ability British managers have, this refers to Redknapp, O'Neill, Hodgson, Allardyce, Pulis, is an ability to get the best out of players, in particular English players. Perhaps Hodgson will give Gerrard the reassurance he seems to need.

stumpypeeps

tommyhaas wrote: »

Isint that how Newcastle appointed managers for years, too appease Shearer? How'd that work out for them?

How'd it work out for Man United?:rolleyes:

wobblyknees

Kess73 wrote: »

How good a player was in the past does not matter if the player is not at that level anymore.

Gerrard has lost a lot of pace over the last 18 months, and he is not the sort of player who could reinvent himself as a sitting midfielder who could pick pinpoint passes, he has never had the discipline or game intelligence to do that the way players like Alonso can.

So no doubts about some of his big moments in the past and what they were worth to the club, but time catches up with all players and when it does, then need to be moved on or retired.

If a club was mad enough to offer big money for him, £25 million upwards, at this stage in his career I would take the money, but I doubt if any club would want to spend big money on a player who has been nothing other than awful since the season before last season ended.

Maybe he can indeed pick up his game under a new manager, but I think it will be more of the same sulking if things are not going his way next season.

If he does stay at Liverpool, I hope your version is how it turns out and not mine.

My personal view on it is that Gerrard just needs a change, and he wants it himself regardless of who is in charge. I think it might be in his and the clubs best interests to cash in now and let him move on to Madrid or somewhere willing to throw £30m our way. If/when it does happen, nothing will ever change the fact that a lot of us have had the pleasure of watching one of Liverpools best ever players in action, and for that he should be wished well and thanked for all he has done for the club.

tommyhaas

stumpypeeps wrote: »

How'd it work out for Man United?:rolleyes:

United never appointed a manager to appease a player

tommyhaas

tommyhaas wrote: »

United never appointed a manager to appease a player

What club has?

Kess73

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I think the one ability British managers have, this refers to Redknapp, O'Neill, Hodgson, Allardyce, Pulis, is an ability to get the best out of players, in particular English players. Perhaps Hodgson will give Gerrard the reassurance he seems to need.

I do think you have a point in saying that about British managers, but I also think that it is a pretty short term thing as in only for a few seasons at best before it goes stale. Hence the likes of 'Onest 'Arry moving around or the likes of O'Neill or Allardyce having yo-yo seasons over time.

But how many of the names you listed would you really really like to see as manager of Liverpool?

Personally I would have to say that I would like to see none of them at Liverpool, especially if it was just to keep one or two ageing players happy.

Kess73

wobblyknees wrote: »

My personal view on it is that Gerrard just needs a change, and he wants it himself regardless of who is in charge. I think it might be in his and the clubs best interests to cash in now and let him move on to Madrid or somewhere willing to throw £30m our way. If/when it does happen, nothing will ever change the fact that a lot of us have had the pleasure of watching one of Liverpools best ever players in action, and for that he should be wished well and thanked for all he has done for the club.

If he goes, it cannot change any good moments from the past, I should think that was obvious.

Plus the benefit to Liverpool in selling him, assuming it was a big bid, would be twofold.

1. We would get a big fee for a player past his best, which could bring two good players to the team.

2. His worst years would be in the shirt of some other club.

stumpypeeps

tommyhaas wrote: »

United never appointed a manager to appease a player

I was talking about managers appeasing players, as Ferguson has done with Ronaldo. I'm not suggesting Hodgson would be appointed to appease Gerrard. I don't think thats why he'd be appointed.

Being a good manager is all about getting performances from your players. Whatever that takes.

stumpypeeps

Kess73 wrote: »

I do think you have a point in saying that about British managers, but I also think that it is a pretty short term thing as in only for a few seasons at best before it goes stale. Hence the likes of 'Onest 'Arry moving around or the likes of O'Neill or Allardyce having yo-yo seasons over time.

But how many of the names you listed would you really really like to see as manager of Liverpool?

Personally I would have to say that I would like to see none of them at Liverpool, especially if it was just to keep one or two ageing players happy.

I think Hodgson will be appointed to do a similar job he performed at Inter and that it will be short term. Unless he takes the England job.

wobblyknees

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm not getting into this argument, 9/10 that change would not have reaped such benefits.

In general, I have a beef with someone who waits until the last 20 mins or so to make a change, and when he does do it it's not even the change that should happen.

I'm not trying to have an argument. It's an alternate view. Didi was brought on to shore up midfield and allow more possession. This lead to goals. Lucas was brought on as Benitez felt Gerrard wasn't playing with his head and was reacting to the crowd, Lucas played really well and this also lead to a winning goal.

wobblyknees

Kess73 wrote: »

If he goes, it cannot change any good moments from the past, I should think that was obvious.

Plus the benefit to Liverpool in selling him, assuming it was a big bid, would be twofold.

1. We would get a big fee for a player past his best, which could bring two good players to the team.

2. His worst years would be in the shirt of some other club.

Or the not so nice alternate view is he is converted to one of the best passing/holding midfielders in the world!

Dr Galen

The noise about Hodgson quietened down as it was obvious the result last Wednesday would be telling regarding the future of Capello. Hodgson had to have been seen as the first choice replacement for him if he went following an English elimination. I'd say the manner of England going out has set those wheels in motion again for Hodgson, at least in his own mind. Capello surely can't hang on now, even if he does, I'd give him six months at best. Would Woy really think about coming to us now, knowing that he is a shoe-in for the England job?

Kess73

wobblyknees wrote: »

Or the not so nice alternate view is he is converted to one of the best passing/holding midfielders in the world!

I would have no fears in that happening. If he does not have that in his locker at this stage of his career then he will never have it.


At this point in his career I don't think he has it in him to be a genuine world class player in his own role, let alone suddenly play in a new role and become one of the best in the world at it.


To be one of the best passing/holding midfielders or a deep lying playmaker to use the fancy term, Gerrard would suddenly need to emulate the likes of Alonso or Pirlo on their best days. I don't see Gerrard doing that between now and the start of the season in August, and surprising all of us with a level of discipline, control, and tactical play that he has not shown up to now in his career.

Now that is not a knock on Gerrard, nor is a knock on what he as done in the past in totally different roles.

Dr Galen

Kess73 wrote: »

Two really nice restaurants that do good business says the gossips are wrong with regards to him not being a smart chap. Looks like he will be opening a bar in Liverpool later in the year too, to go with the pub he has his uncle looking after for him back in Denmark.

Anybody who goes to a game next season should give one of them a try. I prefer Tirano as the atmosphere is very laid back and the food is yummy.

I'd second this Not entirely sure what I had, was something chickeny......a few shandies had been consumed, a few more afterwards. It got messy. I just remember it being tasty.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Capello is a class manager.

Not his fault he is working with a team of duds.

Capello would be agreat apointment......all things being equal. Right now, in the aftermath of the WC failure its the last thing the club needs. I'd very much doubt he'd want the job either for the same reasons. I think we're looking at Pellegrini tbh

Zapp Brannigan

I can always dream that Real offer Alonso for Gerrard in a straight swap. Would bite their hands off!

mike65

Ah would be nice to have Alonso back, wont happen

Zapp Brannigan

Probably not, but we can always dream!

joe123

Theres too many pages to trawl through but what was the general consesus about Deschamps coming in? I would of loved if we got him personally but it doesnt look like its happening now.

Just not at all gone on Hodgson to be honest.

mike65

Would be nice but....

Kess73

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Probably not, but we can always dream!

Damn right we can.

daithijjj

It doesnt matter who you get in as manager, if they cant motivate the players they have then they are as useful as tits on a bull.

We dont have money, and we wont have any until the club is sold (this is basically what purslow will be telling the 'new man'). How many people, and of what stature, do people think will take this job on now under this criteria?. Its all well and good throwing out names, finding a man to take it, with the right motives and being able to motivate without bringing his own players in to an extent, is a monumental task. Some people are dissmissive over hodgson, but its time to get realistic, he has arguably been the best coach in england for the last 2 years and was voted as such by every other coach in england.

With the current anfield circus going on, bringing him in could look like a coup. Sure, hes not 'box office' and not my ideal fantasy appointment but all we have to offer are apples and pears to princes of the game. The man to get the job will be living off a diet of fresh air and 'donations'. Id happily welcome hodgson now and when theres new owners in then a new plan of action can be drawn up.

Mr Alan

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

Mr Alan

should you not be somewhere crying into your leprecaun hat over keane being sold over a year ago? you calling me a broken record is beyond rich, i'd imagine a quick search of 'henry handball' would show you're not too fond of letting stuff go when you feel an injustice has been done.

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

100% agreed, all the same I'll be happy just once the next manager, whoever it is, puts the feel good factor back into the team. Regardless of my issues with certain aspects of Rafa's management, I was sensible enough to know that if we sacked him that we would be downgrading rather than upgrading.

wobblyknees

Mr Alan wrote: »

should you not be somewhere crying into your leprecaun hat over keane being sold over a year ago? you calling me a broken record is beyond rich, i'd imagine a quick search of 'henry handball' would show you're not too fond of letting stuff go when you feel an injustice has been done.

Keane was rubbish. Truly. He ran around like a headless chicken half the time.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

spot on lad

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

should you not be somewhere crying into your leprecaun hat over keane being sold over a year ago? you calling me a broken record is beyond rich, i'd imagine a quick search of 'henry handball' would show you're not too fond of letting stuff go when you feel an injustice has been done.

Be Gor Alan is feeling feisty tonight.

What a comeback.:pac:

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

should you not be somewhere crying into your leprecaun hat over keane being sold over a year ago? you calling me a broken record is beyond rich, i'd imagine a quick search of 'henry handball' would show you're not too fond of letting stuff go when you feel an injustice has been done.

Actually, you trying to imply I express any opinion in the same manner you have this summer is utterly wrong.

The poisonous, self-serving, attention-seeking, "you'll all see I was right!" crap you have been coming out with for the last number of weeks is beyond pathetic.

That'd be the main difference between how I express an injustice and how you do so.

mike65

daithijjj wrote: »

Some people are dissmissive over hodgson, but its time to get realistic, he has arguably been the best coach in england for the last 2 years and was voted as such by every other coach in england.

With the current anfield circus going on, bringing him in could look like a coup. Sure, hes not 'box office' and not my ideal fantasy appointment but all we have to offer are apples and pears to princes of the game. The man to get the job will be living off a diet of fresh air and 'donations'. Id happily welcome hodgson now and when theres new owners in then a new plan of action can be drawn up.

The very fact Hodgson isn't box-office is his ace card, no one expects him to do that much esp at the current Liverpool so the actual pressure as opposed to the perceived pressure is quite low. With Fabio Capello or AN Other famous name it would be a mad house from day one. and more tears before bedtime when miracles are not achieved.

Mr Alan

the main difference is that the injustice/decision i'm talking about has happened within the last few weeks, whereas what you drone about happened a long time ago. That's why the let it go/broken record jibes you've thrown my way are so hypocritical. 'Poisonous self serving attention seeking'? . . . I think i'm around here long enough for people to know that for all the faults i have, that description is wide of the mark.

LuckyLloyd

Mr Alan wrote: »

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

Mr Alan wrote: »

should you not be somewhere crying into your leprecaun hat over keane being sold over a year ago? you calling me a broken record is beyond rich, i'd imagine a quick search of 'henry handball' would show you're not too fond of letting stuff go when you feel an injustice has been done.

daithijjj

Mr Alan wrote: »

the people who wanted Rafa gone were convinced we'd get a class replacement cause we're Liverpool-i'd like to hear from those people now to be honest. now we're being told we can't and we'll have to accept some slightly above average journey man manager cause no one wants to manage us, but it'll only be short term(i don't believe this, whoever comes in will be here for at least 2/3 years)-the decision just get worse and worse the more ya think about it.

How do you know a very good manager wont be appointed?.
Whats wrong with being a journeyman, hiddink is a journeyman, would he be 'acceptable'?
Do you think you will ever get over rafa this side of 2020? (flippant comment i know but its time to let go, you will be a healthier and happier man if you do ).
For the record, kenny leaving felt infinitely worse than benitez leaving personally.

mike65

Being a star player since 1977 Kenny D was far more Liverpool than Rafa or indeed anyone since him.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

the main difference is that the injustice/decision i'm talking about has happened within the last few weeks, whereas what you drone about happened a long time ago. That's why the let it go/broken record jibes you've thrown my way are so hypocritical. 'Poisonous self serving attention seeking'? . . . I think i'm around here long enough for people to know that for all the faults i have, that description is wide of the mark.

You are comparing mountains and mole hills I am afraid. I have expressed numerous times that Keane should have stayed given the lack of alternatives (although you it up far more often than me these days) but I never posted random posts everyday warning all "the those who wanted him gone" how sorry they would be or any other such egotistical bullsh1t.

There are enough problems at the club without you throwing antagonistic comments at will around just to highlight to an even greater extent that you think he should have stayed.

We get it.

LuckyLloyd

And look how well Kenny leaving worked out!!

Mr Alan

i said 'slightly above average journeyman', i don't think Hiddink falls into that bracket i'm aiming to be over it by 2015 maybe i'll be surprised and we'll make an inspired appointment, not really expecting anything other than average though, are you? Calls to get over it are a bitter pill to swallow when our manager should be checking out potential new signings and working on plans for next season, instead the managers seat still lays vacant while some of our crown jewells being eyed up by some of the best clubs around.

mike65

That it then whoever get the gig next can never leave, have to hook him up to a blood transfusion machine and freeze his brain every May.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

You are comparing mountains and mole hills I am afraid. I have expressed numerous times that Keane should have stayed given the lack of alternatives (although you it up far more often than me these days) but I never posted random posts everyday warning all "the those who wanted him gone" how sorry they would be or any other such egotistical bullsh1t.

There are enough problems at the club without you throwing antagonistic comments at will around just to highlight to an even greater extent that you think he should have stayed.

We get it.

All i said was, i'd like to hear from those who wanted him gone and thought we'd attract a world class replacement. Don't really see any sort of warning in that.

Blackhorse Slim

Personally I'll be over Benitez as soon as we have a top-class manager with funds to improve the squad and we start winning things. I'm not holding my breath. :mad:

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

i said 'slightly above average journeyman', i don't think Hiddink falls into that bracket i'm aiming to be over it by 2015 maybe i'll be surprised and we'll make an inspired appointment, not really expecting anything other than average though, are you? Calls to get over it are a bitter pill to swallow when our manager should be checking out potential new signings and working on plans for next season, instead the managers seat still lays vacant while some of our crown jewells being eyed up by some of the best clubs around.

Who is it on this forum you are aiming your "you will be sorry comments at"?

I thought the ones wanting him gone were the minority around here with far, far more being the fence and another large group wanting him to stay.

Your bitterness is being misdirected.

Mr Alan

well obviously if i said 'you'll be sorry', which i didn't tonight-it's directed at people who wanted him out, or people who think the right decision was made.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

All i said was, i'd like to hear from those who wanted him gone and thought we'd attract a world class replacement. Don't really see any sort of warning in that.

Mr Alan wrote: »

well obviously if i said 'you'll be sorry', which i didn't tonight-it's directed at people who wanted him out, or people who think the right decision was made.

Understood, I have never definitively said I wanted him gone by the way, I can see how it might have been time to move on but I don't predict things will automatically be rosy in the future.

Anyway, rubbing people's nose in it before we even appoint a new man seems premature and pointless.

daithijjj

I cried when kenny left. (allthough i cried when he signed david speedie to solve our striker crisis aswel).