Arsenal FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

yahoo_moe

For whoever said, Arshavin's a bit weird...

L'prof

yahoo_moe wrote: »

For whoever said, Arshavin's a bit weird...

He doesn't even look one bit out of place!

Nuri Sahin

yahoo_moe wrote: »

For whoever said, Arshavin's a bit weird...

Seems like a day for facepalms so with that said...

Pepe LeFrits

Tempted to head to the Emirates Cup again myself. A good bunch of lads I know are going.

Frisbee

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Tempted to head to the Emirates Cup again myself. A good bunch of lads I know are going.

I have one Arsenal supporting mate and he doesn't seemed bothered about going.

Might try and get a neutral to come with me.

"Arsenal, Milan and Lyon! You'd be mad not to!"

L'prof

Frisbee wrote: »

I have one Arsenal supporting mate and he doesn't seemed bothered about going.

Might try and get a neutral to come with me.

"Arsenal, Milan and Lyon! You'd be mad not to!"

I've never been bothered about the Emirates cup either. It's expensive enough to go over, so when I do I'd prefer to go to a league game. I'd absolutely love to get to a champions league game but, being mid-week they're much more awkward!

Frisbee

jasonorr wrote: »

I've never been bothered about the Emirates cup either. It's expensive enough to go over, so when I do I'd prefer to go to a league game. I'd absolutely love to get to a champions league game but, being mid-week they're much more awkward!

It's £50 for a ticket for both days afaik.

Flights are only 19euro and hostel 15 for one night.
So it works out handy enough.

I'd find it hard to get over myself during the season as I have a match every Saturday, work almost every Sunday and train three nights week.

Galvasean

So, whos out whos in?

I can see us selling (albeit in my own magi fantasy land):

Almunia - £3 million
Fabianski -2p
Silvestre - £0.5 million
Arshavin - £15 million
Eduardo - £6 million

Bring in:

Joe Harte - £14 million
Yaya Touré - £12 million
Mario Balotelli - £10 million

I'd be happy with that.

L'prof

Frisbee wrote: »

It's for a ticket for both days afaik.

Flights are only 19euro and hostel 15 for one night.
So it works out handy enough.

I'd find it hard to get over myself during the season as I have a match every Saturday, work almost every Sunday and train three nights week.

I usually bring the girlfriend so, it never works out that cheap for me!

L'prof

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd be happy with that.

An outlay of £11.5m? Seems pretty low considering "we have money to spend" and if anything we need a bigger squad and we'd be losing two players there!

cson

Interesting Galva, I wonder how our team would be valued now... I'll have a bash. What I think we'd get for them;

Almunia - £2m

Clichy - £10m
Gallas - £5m
Vermaelen - £15m
Sagna £10m

Song - £8m
Nasri - £12m
Fabregas - £40m
Arshavin - £15m

RVP - £30m
Bendtner - £6m

Hmmm, more later.

speedboatchase

Galvasean wrote: »

So, whos out whos in?

I can see us selling (albeit in my own magi fantasy land):

Almunia - £3 million
Fabianski -2p
Silvestre - £0.5 million
Arshavin - £15 million
Eduardo - £6 million

Bring in:

Joe Harte - £14 million
Yaya Touré - £12 million
Mario Balotelli - £10 million

I'd be happy with that.

Not a hope of Balotelli for £10m, £20m at least, I'd expect we'd need about £16m for Yaya

yahoo_moe

If ye reckon Almunia would only fetch 2-3m, then keep him as number 2. (Yes, I'm saying it again.)

And Gallas and Silvestre are both out of contract so we won't be getting anything for either of them.

Frisbee

jasonorr wrote: »

I usually bring the girlfriend so, it never works out that cheap for me!

Thats not a bad idea if I can't get anyone else to go with me.

cson wrote: »

Interesting Galva, I wonder how our team would be valued now... I'll have a bash. What I think we'd get for them;

Almunia - £2m

Clichy - £10m
Gallas - £5m
Vermaelen - £15m
Sagna £10m

Song - £8m
Nasri - £12m
Fabregas - £40m
Arshavin - £15m

RVP - £30m
Bendtner - £6m

Hmmm, more later.

Gallas would be worth maybe 3M at most at his age.
Verm at 15M? Lol, not a hope, 10M still.

Song = 5M
Fabregas = 50M+

RVP = 20M


Those are the realistic prices I'd imagine any club would pay for them. Excluding Man City or Madrid.

L'prof

cson wrote: »

Interesting Galva, I wonder how our team would be valued now... I'll have a bash. What I think we'd get for them;

Almunia - £2m

Clichy - £10m
Gallas - £5m
Vermaelen - £15m
Sagna £10m

Song - £8m
Nasri - £12m
Fabregas - £40m
Arshavin - £15m

RVP - £30m
Bendtner - £6m

Hmmm, more later.

So £153m for a squad that cost us £48.5m + Cole? Not bad!

cson

Frisbee wrote: »

Thats not a bad idea if I can't get anyone else to go with me.



Gallas would be worth maybe 3M at most at his age.
Verm at 15M? Lol, not a hope, 10M still.

Song = 5M
Fabregas = 50M+

RVP = 20M


Those are the realistic prices I'd imagine any club would pay for them. Excluding Man City or Madrid.

Guarantee you based on the good season [not without it's faults, though goals tend to disguise that] we'd easily cover that for him from the usual suspects.

Galvasean

Galvasean (revised) wrote: »

So, whos out whos in?

I can see us selling (albeit in my own magi fantasy land):

Almunia - £3 million
Fabianski -2p
Silvestre - £0.5 million
Arshavin - £15 million
Eduardo - £6 million

Bring in:

Joe Harte - £14 million
Yaya Touré - £12 million
Mario Balotelli - £10 million

I'd be happy with that.

jasonorr wrote: »

An outlay of £11.5m? Seems pretty low considering "we have money to spend" and if anything we need a bigger squad and we'd be losing two players there!

We've heard 'money to spend' before... I forgot to include Chamack (attack!) who is a freebie (well, a couple of million signing on fee no doubt). Since I'm throwing away one (useless) back up goalie. So okay, that's negative one player who is surplus to requirenments. I'm sure wenger will make one or two 'Wenger style' buys too. Players no one has heard of but turn out to be good on the cheap.
Actually come to think of it I can see Vela and/or Merida leaving too.
Djourou should be fit for teh start of next season so he can take Silvestres place as CB cover.

cson wrote: »

Interesting Galva, I wonder how our team would be valued now... I'll have a bash. What I think we'd get for them;
Song - £8m
Bendtner - £6m

Hmmm, more later.

I think you've undervalued them both. I think you could realisticaly expect 12 for Song and 10 for Bendtner not that I'd like to sell either).

cson wrote: »

Guarantee you based on the good season [not without it's faults, though goals tend to disguise that] we'd easily cover that for him from the usual suspects.

I'd imagine Vermaelen would fetch £15 million or more. Quality centre backs that are available to buy are so rare these days. Plus he's still pretty young and is likely to improve significantly over the next ten years.

Galvasean

speedboatchase wrote: »

Not a hope of Balotelli for £10m, £20m at least, I'd expect we'd need about £16m for Yaya

Well I hear Balotelli had a row with José and wants out. We could potentially wrangle him on the cheap, maybe 15?
I'd be willing to pay 16 for Yaya if it came to it. Song will inevitably need rest/competition/get suspended/injured from time to time. also, Gallas will be fairly old next year so we could rotate Yaya in at CB too. Word on the street is he is unhappy at barce so they may be willing to let him go.

Frisbee

cson wrote: »

Guarantee you based on the good season [not without it's faults, though goals tend to disguise that] we'd easily cover that for him from the usual suspects.

The only people I could see spending more than 10 on Verm is City. He's not even worth ten, we overpaid for him.

Galvasean wrote: »

I think you've undervalued them both. I think you could realisticaly expect 12 for Song and 10 for Bendtner not that I'd like to sell either).

I'd love some of what your smoking.

12 for Song?! He's had one decent season. Not a hope.

10 for Bendtner is very very overpriced, although we could get it as strikers always go for more than their worth.

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd imagine Vermaelen would fetch £15 million or more. Quality centre backs that are available to buy are so rare these days. Plus he's still pretty young and is likely to improve significantly over the next ten years.

Vermaelen is not yet a 'quality' centre back. He's a CB who scores loads of goals, but his defending leaves a lot to be desired much of the time.
Making crunching tackles and going gung ho for headers doesn't make up for his poor sense of positioning and his tendencies to wander forward.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Frisbee wrote: »

The only people I could see spending more than 10 on Verm is City. He's not even worth ten, we overpaid for him.




I'd love some of what your smoking.

12 for Song?! He's had one decent season. Not a hope.

10 for Bendtner is very very overpriced, although we could get it as strikers always go for more than their worth.


.

The likes of Elmander cost 10 million and he's certainly not as accomplished as Bendtner.

And Diarra had what half a decent season with Portsmouth before going for 20 odd million (ok it was to Real but still).

And despite his faults, Vermaelen still has a very good reputation, especially seeing as he mad the team of the season. Having said that 10-12 million is about right I'd say

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

Vermaelen is not yet a 'quality' centre back. He's a CB who scores loads of goals, but his defending leaves a lot to be desired much of the time.
Making crunching tackles and going gung ho for headers doesn't make up for his poor sense of positioning and his tendencies to wander forward.

Ugh, ZonalMarking's gospel has become entrenched... his positioning isn't that bad, he can improve, but that analysis is harsh.

Problem is mostly in the formation tbh, when Clichy and or Sagna go forward the CBs are isolated and left with too much space to cover. This means Gallas isn't able to get across to cover like he should because it will then leave far to much space between him and Sagna for the opposition to move into. Standing off the man isn't a solution either because there is simply too much space for the opposition forwards to run into. It's a bit of a lose-lose.

In all the best defences at least one CB needs to get close to the man and attack the ball. Vidic does it all the time. So Does Terry. Difference is Vidic gets a lot more support and cover from Evra and Ferdinand for the opposition to be able to exploit him. And it's not coincidence that Terry is having his worst season at a time when Carvalho is struggling for form and Cole was injured for a large portion.

So in short, we need to fix the defensive organisation. An obvious solution would be to tell Clichy and Sagna to stop going forward so much, but then we'd need to get proper wingers in to supply width. The other alternative is to get another sitter to go in along side Song so one is always in a position to drop and offer the CBs cover. The problem here is you end up two distinct blocks of defenders and forwards and sometimes the gap between the two can become too large. And the third clear option is to drop a forward and revert to 4-4-2. Or we just stay as we are but insist our forwards press more off the ball and track back better (which has its own downsides in terms of increased injury considering we already run more than other teams).

L'prof

Vermaelen does wander forward and it may have cost us at times but, is everybody forgetting the amazing tackles he pulls of quite frequently? I've yet to see him outpaced too, although I may be open to correction on that, he's lightening quick! I think he should stick to getting forward for frees and corners and leave it at that!

Frisbee

playa3 wrote: »

The likes of Elmander cost 10 million and he's certainly not as accomplished as Bendtner.

True, that was a stupid transfer though.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ugh, ZonalMarking's gospel has become entrenched... his positioning isn't that bad, he can improve, but that analysis is harsh.

I'm actually a huge fan of Zonal Marking.

I'm not just talking about his positioning when there's a man coming through.

He tends to get drawn towards the ball far to easily. That's grand when Gallas is in behind him sweeping up. But when he's not Verm still gets attracted to the ball too much imo.

Don't get me wrong I like the guy, and I have no doubt he'll be a top defender, he's only 23 and still learning his position sure, but I think he really needs a good experienced defender beside him to keep him in check.

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

True, that was a stupid transfer though.

Elmander was one of the best players in France in the seasons before, he was nominated for FPA Player of the Year in 2008 according to wiki.

Frisbee wrote: »

He tends to get drawn towards the ball far to easily. That's grand when Gallas is in behind him sweeping up. But when he's not Verm still gets attracted to the ball too much imo.

That 'getting drawn the ball' is part of his game though. He looks to put himself in the position to attack the ball before the opposition have the opportunity to play into the acres of space behind our defensive line. He will get better with experience but I just think it's harsh singling him out because the way we play puts so much more responsibilities on our defence than any other team in the league.

Frisbee

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Elmander was one of the best players in France in the seasons before, he was nominated for FPA Player of the Year in 2008 according to wiki.

I did not know that.

But surely Bolton would have been better served strengthening the whole squad than gambling on one player.
For a bigger club Elmander might have been an acceptable risk, but not Bolton.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

That 'getting drawn the ball' is part of his game though. He looks to put himself in the position to attack the ball before the opposition have the opportunity to play into the acres of space behind our defensive line. He will get better with experience but I just think it's harsh singling him out because the way we play puts so much more responsibilities on our defence than any other team in the league.

I'm not meaning to single him out for our defensive failings.

I just don't think he's anywhere worth 15M.

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

I'm not meaning to single him out for our defensive failings.

Fair enough. It's just since that article appeared on ZonalMarking it seems to have become fashionable to have a go at Vermaelen in some circles... just become tired of seeing it mentioned tbh, his flaws are pretty common among CBs, it's just in a more compact system you wouldn't notice them as frequently.

yahoo_moe

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ugh, ZonalMarking's gospel has become entrenched... his positioning isn't that bad, he can improve, but that analysis is harsh.

The ZM analysis was a little harsh (as well as absolving our full-backs a bit too much, it ignored how much further forward Song ends up compared to a Busquets/Toure) but I've been semi-unimpressed for a while now with Vermaelen's decision-making at times.

I'm not talking about being attracted to the ball/man or any of that ZM stuff, I'm saying that he really shouldn't go pegging it up front all the time (e.g. against Stoke in the last minute, even though he scored - similar thing vs 'Pool too I think?) Needless risk.

yahoo_moe

Actually for anyone who doesn't follow Young Guns (I can see why you wouldn't), there was a good guest post in the Sunday series a while ago that dealt with the challenge a narrow 4-3-3 poses for full-backs.

Link

Kirnsy

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Actually for anyone who doesn't follow Young Guns (I can see why you wouldn't), there was a good guest post in the Sunday series a while ago that dealt with the challenge a narrow 4-3-3 poses for full-backs.

Link

Yep that illustrates why we shouldn't be jumping down Sagna and Clichy's throats for the odd poor performance. The amount of work they have to do has increased dramatically with this formation and they are still getting used to it. You can see how a dominantly attacking WB like Alves and Maicon can thrive on it by forcing the attacks, they are covering up their defensive frailties (that said Maicon in fairness is a monster in defence as well). Sagna especially hasn't adapted as much to the attacking side of things yet but I feel its only a matter of time.

Galvasean

Frisbee wrote: »

I just don't think he's anywhere worth 15M.

I'd say if we were to sell him we could command that much as I think you'd be hard pressed to find a CB as good as him with as much potential for cheaper. It may say something about the shockingly small number of top quality centre backs in the world today, but signing him for ten million seems a great piece of business.
What I'm getting at is, the price of good centre backs these days is somewhat infalted to to poor supply and great demand.

keano_afc

"I believe in the squad I have and if I can make an addition to the squad - two or three maximum - then we will do it."

Wenger at his press conference yesterday. With Chamakh in the bag, those wods dont exactly fill me with confidence.

L'prof

keano_afc wrote: »

"I believe in the squad I have and if I can make an addition to the squad - two or three maximum - then we will do it."

Wenger at his press conference yesterday. With Chamakh in the bag, those wods dont exactly fill me with confidence.

Meant to post this earlier! Same sentiments for me too...seems to be Chamakh, new keeper, defender but only if Gallas leaves!

"We have money, we have money, 2 or 3 signings max...", talk about Déjà fúckíng vu!

Next season will be the exact same so! Unless we get very lucky with injuries, I can't see us winning anything!

AnCapaillMor

Well its 1 or 2 more than the past few years. I'd say our chances of hart are gone now.

everdead.ie

Bendtner would be worth at least ten million I have been really impressed with him his link up play and his goal scoring rate is brilliant

Ush1

Elmander was a very good player in France and did well at the European Championships with Sweden also(playing out of position).

conno16

has anyone ever considered playing bendtner and vermalen up front together? seems as though they could strike a partnership.

Evil_Clown

Frisbee wrote: »

I just don't think he's anywhere worth 15M.

There is a big difference in valuations of players depending on perspective. You think that Verm is not worth 15m and even though I agree with you, I think that if Arsenal put him up for sale tomorrow some club would definately pay 15m.
There is still stupid money still flying around football while the world economy is collapsing. Lescott 24m, Ibra 1 zillion, G Johnson 18m etc

Frisbee

Evil_Clown wrote: »

There is a big difference in valuations of players depending on perspective. You think that Verm is not worth 15m and even though I agree with you, I think that if Arsenal put him up for sale tomorrow some club would definately pay 15m.
There is still stupid money still flying around football while the world economy is collapsing. Lescott 24m, Ibra 1 zillion, G Johnson 18m etc

True.

I think the majority of clubs would pay 8-12.

Whereas some like City or Real would pay 15+

Paleface

Evil_Clown wrote: »

There is still stupid money still flying around football while the world economy is collapsing. Lescott 24m, Ibra 1 zillion, G Johnson 18m etc

Wenger believes that day is coming to an end.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-there-could-be-no-euro-market

leninbenjamin

Frisbee wrote: »

True.

I think the majority of clubs would pay 8-12.

Whereas some like City or Real would pay 15+

Nah, the market value of defenders his age and his caliber is usually well above £10, maybe not quite the £15, but i think we could fully expect to recoup what we paid if we wanted to this Summer. Look at the prices being bandied about for Boateng, and Zapata for example, between the 12-15 mark it seems.

Arseblog linked to a great article this morning (some random swiss blog, link is here). Basically talks through the club accounts, the property activities and what that might yield in terms of the transfer budget. It's long, but well worth a read if you have the time. Long of the short though, there's probably around £50m free cash in the club for investment. Not all of this will go on players, so estimations of a £30m transfer budget don't seem too far off.

herbieflowers

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Nah, the market value of defenders his age and his caliber is usually well above £10, maybe not quite the £15, but i think we could fully expect to recoup what we paid if we wanted to this Summer. Look at the prices being bandied about for Boateng, and Zapata for example, between the 12-15 mark it seems.

£10 / £15? Bargain!

leninbenjamin

herbieflowers wrote: »

£10 / £15? Bargain!

Pedant.

x PyRo

conno16 wrote: »

has anyone ever considered playing bendtner and vermalen up front together? seems as though they could strike a partnership.

Classic. :pac:

Pepe LeFrits

Did I see Vermaelen isn't worth 10 million? Arshavin not worth 15?

When did we timewarp back to 1998?

Paleface

The economic's of football transfers is not really worth debating.

At the end of the day there will always be clubs willing to pay over the odds for players because it keeps supporters happy to see new signings and in turn generates new revenue for the club.

There is absolutely no indicator for what a player is or isn't worth.

leninbenjamin

Paleface wrote: »

There is absolutely no indicator for what a player is or isn't worth.

Yes there is. Prices are ridiculous because of the level of public interest.

The bums on seats is actually very measureable. Look at how many people turned up to Ronaldo's unveiling vs. Benzema. Real payed ridiculously over the odds for Ronaldo's footballing worth because it raised their profile so much.

Marketing potential is the biggest determinant (that's why english Internationals are always ridiculously overpriced). Then of course success on the field can be measured by the potential payoff of additional prize money in terms of league rankings, cup success and any additional TV of advancing. And lastly is the future vale of the players registration. What's the registration as an asset worth to club 3 years down the line. Will the player get better, worse etc.

Ambramovich and The Sheiks have distorted things of course for their willingness to pay over the odds for onfield success, but for the most part transfer fees are relatively predictable. As long as public interest remains in the game there was always be a predictable element of madness to transfer fees.

Evil_Clown

Paleface wrote: »

There is absolutely no indicator for what a player is or isn't worth.

Nationality, Past performaces (especially in big tournaments), Age, Current Club
The market is strange but these are some factors that define a players worth

Paleface

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Yes there is. Prices are ridiculous because of the level of public interest.

The bums on seats is actually very measureable. Look at how many people turned up to Ronaldo's unveiling vs. Benzema. Real payed ridiculously over the odds for Ronaldo's footballing worth because it raised their profile so much.

Marketing potential is the biggest determinant (that's why english Internationals are always ridiculously overpriced). Then of course success on the field can be measured by the potential payoff of additional prize money in terms of league rankings, cup success and any additional TV of advancing. And lastly is the future vale of the players registration. What's the registration as an asset worth to club 3 years down the line. Will the player get better, worse etc.

Ambramovich and The Sheiks have distorted things of course for their willingness to pay over the odds for onfield success, but for the most part transfer fees are relatively predictable. As long as public interest remains in the game there was always be a predictable element of madness to transfer fees.

Evil_Clown wrote:

Nationality, Past performaces (especially in big tournaments), Age, Current Club
The market is strange but these are some factors that define a players worth

I accept both of your points but at the end of the day footballers to me are a commodity just like anything else that is traded in this world.

If demand is high then the price is high and visa versa. The price of a player today is no indicator of what his price will be tomorrow if something comes in and distorts the market.

It is not really an indication of that players true ability or potential to add value to the team he is joining. There are a serious amount of unknowns.

yahoo_moe

Just while we discuss summer possibilities, don't forget the new 25-man squad rule. By my count, we played 28 players this year and would have used Djourou if he hadn't been injured all year, with a few extra in squads (JET, Henderson, maybe Coquelin). Some adjustment needed.

Goalkeepers »
Almunia
Mannone
Fabianski

Defenders »
Vermaelen
Song
Gallas
Sagna
Clichy
Silvestre
Campbell
Traore
Eastmond
Gibbs

Djourou

Midfielders »
Fabregas
Arshavin
Diaby
Nasri
Denilson
Rosicky
Walcott
Ramsey
Eboue
Merida
Wilshere

Forwards »
Van Persie
Bendtner
Eduardo
Vela

Pepe LeFrits

It's 25 players over the age of 21 at the beginning of the season is it not? Should be pretty comfy to fit into.