Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [warning post #417, 418]

Brewster

Dempsey wrote: »

He cant put in a decent cross, he cant shoot, he draws two players and tries to take on both instead of going for a pass. He dwells on the ball far too long and this allows the opposition to get into good defensive positions.

Completely ineffective last night, Saturday and last Wednesday.


I'm not overreacting or generalizing, I've watched him for long enough to see these flaws and so has every professional footballer that he plays against. They are easily able to handle him.

He actually needs to learn from McCourt how to use the ball, to be more direct. Its a pity that McCourt's body cannot stand up to the intensity of professional football, he's far more intelligence and skill when dribbling.

EDIT

Bewster, him dwelling on the ball is the root cause, he isnt able to make a good decision quick enough and he doesnt have the composure needed to execute something quickly

If you could clone McCourt and McGeady, youd have a superstar then ok! Said this on here plenty of times.

premierstone

Brewster wrote: »

If you could clone McCourt and McGeady, youd have a superstar then ok! Said this on here plenty of times.

Paddy McCourt is 3 years older than Aiden, while at Rochdale he scored only 8 goals in he's 80 league appearances, and with Derry he scored 5 goals in 61 league games, them figures dont even compare favourably with Aiden's, I really cant fathom the apathy towards the wee man here when you look at some of the sh*te lining out for the hoops presently.

Dempsey

premierstone wrote: »

Paddy McCourt is 3 years older than Aiden, while at Rochdale he scored only 8 goals in he's 80 league appearances, and with Derry he scored 5 goals in 61 league games, them figures dont even compare favourably with Aiden's, I really cant fathom the apathy towards the wee man here when you look at some of the sh*te lining out for the hoops presently.

Its not all about the goals they score, its about general play.

McGeady dwells on the ball far too long for a winger

premierstone

Dempsey wrote: »

Its not all about the goals they score, its about general play.

McGeady dwells on the ball far too long for a winger

It was all about the goals when people were using it as a brush to beat the guy with, but when it doesnt fit the arguement its not relevant.

Anyway like he's new team mate Mr. Keane he seems to divide public opinion somewhat and we're not going to agree, although I do concede he is not direct enough, i think he's qualities far outshine he's weaknesses.

Any how back to last nights debacle, did anyone else think that Ki was shockingly bad for the goal, he was the one who was in a positon to close down Maguire (even before he got the ball) and he just stood there admiring him.

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

Its not all about the goals they score, its about general play.

McGeady dwells on the ball far too long for a winger

Fully agree he needs to work on crossing and shooting but the arguments against McGeady here are waaaaaaaay OTT.

as for holding onto the ball too long... if he had strikers that played as strikers to aim at, instead of them being on the wing, then I'd imagine he'd have much more assists.

McGeady is still our best player athough going through a severe slump in form.

Brewster

premierstone wrote: »

It was all about the goals when people were using it as a brush to beat the guy with, but when it doesnt fit the arguement its not relevant.

Anyway like he's new team mate Mr. Keane he seems to divide public opinion somewhat and we're not going to agree, although I do concede he is not direct enough, i think he's qualities far outshine he's weaknesses.

Any how back to last nights debacle, did anyone else think that Ki was shockingly bad for the goal, he was the one who was in a positon to close down Maguire (even before he got the ball) and he just stood there admiring him.

Ki is not ready for first team football at Celtic. This is evident from the two games I have seen. He may come onto a game when he has settled into his new surrounds. In saying all this, he is a commercial signing from the board

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Fully agree he needs to work on crossing and shooting but the arguments against McGeady here are waaaaaaaay OTT.

as for holding onto the ball too long... if he had strikers that played as strikers to aim at, instead of them being on the wing, then I'd imagine he'd have much more assists.

McGeady is still our best player athough going through a severe slump in form.

Bobby, no1 could dispute this fact. Before Keane's arrival last night, other than Boruc there is no denying McGeady is your best player. Says more for rest of garbish in team though than it does for McGeady IMHO

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Fully agree he needs to work on crossing and shooting but the arguments against McGeady here are waaaaaaaay OTT.

as for holding onto the ball too long... if he had strikers that played as strikers to aim at, instead of them being on the wing, then I'd imagine he'd have much more assists.

McGeady is still our best player athough going through a severe slump in form.

I dunno what argument you are referring to but he's been ineffective for 3 straight games at least. For a supposedly £10M+ player, thats not good enough.

If the striker in on the wing in McGeady's position, then where has McGeady wandered off to??

Crowding the penalty area doesnt suit the attacking team. Strikers coming deep isnt the issue, McGeady dwelling on the ball and not getting his head up is.

This 'if he was on form he'd be our best player' doesnt hold much water for me. You can argue that about any player. During Boruc's on form era, he was our best player, more so than McGeady. For a spell earlier this season, Hinkel was our best player etc etc etc

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

I dunno what argument you are referring to but he's been ineffective for 3 straight games at least. For a supposedly £10M+ player, thats not good enough.

If the striker in on the wing in McGeady's position, then where has McGeady wandered off to??

Crowding the penalty area doesnt suit the attacking team. Strikers coming deep isnt the issue, McGeady dwelling on the ball and not getting his head up is.

This 'if he was on form he'd be our best player' doesnt hold much water for me. You can argue that about any player. During Boruc's on form era, he was our best player, more so than McGeady. For a spell earlier this season, Hinkel was our best player etc etc etc

Three bad games does not a bad player make. McGeady is worth £10. absolutely no problem considering the dross that is being sold in the EPL for ridiculous amounts*. McGeady is going through a bad patch. McGeady will come out of this bad patch. McGeady is the best player at Celtic. It's not McGeady's fault that samaras and Fortune like to drift to the wings, you cannot portray that. McGeady is double teamed EVERY time he has the ball.

*If Alan Hutton went for £9m then McGeady is worth over £30m.

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Three bad games does not a bad player make. McGeady is worth £10. absolutely no problem considering the dross that is being sold in the EPL for ridiculous amounts*. McGeady is going through a bad patch. McGeady will come out of this bad patch. McGeady is the best player at Celtic. It's not McGeady's fault that samaras and Fortune like to drift to the wings, you cannot portray that. McGeady is double teamed EVERY time he has the ball.

*If Alan Hutton went for £9m then McGeady is worth over £30m.

30m:pac::pac::eek: The Bobby Sands School of Economics eh!!

Of course he gets double teamed, thats what happens when you are a good player. McGeady has to deal with this. One way of doing this is to use his team mates more often rather than trying to beat the two players on his own all the time.

premierstone

Brewster wrote: »

30m:pac::pac::eek: The Bobby Sands School of Economics eh!

Certainly no more far fetched that your earlier claim that we would 'do well to get £4m' for him!!

Brewster

premierstone wrote: »

Certainly no more far fetched that your earlier claim that we would 'do well to get £4m' for him!!

I am told on other Celtic forums, many fans are questioning McGeady's long term value as a player. I am not the only one who doesn't think he is a 10m star! Far from it. If I was a premiership manager, I would take a punt on him, Id like to work with players with his potential and try to develop him into a complete player. In todays market, which is very depressed, I think 5 or 6m tops for McGeady would be a fantastic price. References to what Alan Hutton went to Spurs too a few years ago are hardly relevant to be honest! For Ireland's sake, I sincerely hope he does develop whether this is at Celtic or in England I dont know.

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

Aidan McGeady....... No end product... Cannot cross a ball... Cannot shoot with any degree of success.

Brewster wrote: »

Of course he gets double teamed, thats what happens when you are a good player.

Well there's a contradiction...

"cannot cross the ball" has "no end product" and "cannot shoot with any degree of success" - how can you then label him as a "good player" and justify other teams double teaming him?

poindexter

why do people keep biting with him???

was good to see Paul Caddis come on the other night, had a couple of great balls swung into the box. this league is far from over yet, KEEP THE FAITH BHOYS

bobbysands81

poindexter wrote: »

why do people keep biting with him???

was good to see Paul Caddis come on the other night, had a couple of great balls swung into the box. this league is far from over yet, KEEP THE FAITH BHOYS

Caddis should have been played at left back earlier in the season and should also be giving Hinkel a good run for his money. Anytime I've seen Caddis I've been impressed.

However, I don't hold any hope for us winning the league.

If we were playing well I could see us getting right back into it with a couple of wins against rangers... but we're not playing well and we will lose more games before the end of the season.

Brewster

poindexter wrote: »

why do people keep biting with him???

was good to see Paul Caddis come on the other night, had a couple of great balls swung into the box. this league is far from over yet, KEEP THE FAITH BHOYS

Poindexter, assuming "him" is "moi", can you give me a break please?? Others have. Do you not think its a bit tiresome and tedious at this stage? I am hear to discuss Scottish football as I have an interest in league. We won't agree on everything, but please have some respect.

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Well there's a contradiction...

"cannot cross the ball" has "no end product" and "cannot shoot with any degree of success" - how can you then label him as a "good player" and justify other teams double teaming him?

Bobby, I have always said McGeady is a good player. He has unbelievable, pace, skill, balance, a fantastic drive that all wingers need. His feet are unbelievable at times. Till he develops his end product to a much greater degree of consitency he will always be a good player, but he will never become the world class talent that I think he could become. There is absolute no contradiction here. Teams have to double up on because of his quick feet and skill level on ball. Teams cant assume hes goona feck up and put in an aimless cross all the time!! They have to close him down. You have even admitted yourself his end product needs to improve. We aren't actually in disagreement here!

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Three bad games does not a bad player make. McGeady is worth £10. absolutely no problem considering the dross that is being sold in the EPL for ridiculous amounts*. McGeady is going through a bad patch. McGeady will come out of this bad patch. McGeady is the best player at Celtic. It's not McGeady's fault that samaras and Fortune like to drift to the wings, you cannot portray that. McGeady is double teamed EVERY time he has the ball.

*If Alan Hutton went for £9m then McGeady is worth over £30m.

I wont jump on that :pac:

There has been other ineffective performances this season, Hearts in the CIS Cup at Home. Lee Wallace had McGeady in his back pocket all match. His form this season is woeful and hasnt improved beyond his POTY/YPOTY year.

He has regressed and a sign of his attitude gone wrong was when he lost the ball and went and hack down the player to get a yellow card. He forgot what Tommy Burns and Strachan taught him.

Again, I'll say this. If McGeady is doubled up on, that means that someone is either free or at best loosely marked. Instead of trying to beat the two players, FIND THE PASS and stretch the defence before everyone gets back.

Cant blame Samaras and Fortune for McGeady being a ineffective winger, he's ineffective for Ireland aswell. Its clearly not a Celtic thing.

McGeady is a good dribbler but has a very inconsistent end product. That has been proven all throughout his career for club and country to date. I wouldnt pay £30M for that, you are deluded to think that anyone would.

Brewster

Dempsey wrote: »

I wont jump on that :pac:

There has been other ineffective performances this season, Hearts in the CIS Cup at Home. Lee Wallace had McGeady in his back pocket all match. His form this season is woeful and hasnt improved beyond his POTY/YPOTY year.

He has regressed and a sign of his attitude gone wrong was when he lost the ball and went and hack down the player to get a yellow card. He forgot what Tommy Burns and Strachan taught him.

Again, I'll say this. If McGeady is doubled up on, that means that someone is either free or at best loosely marked. Instead of trying to beat the two players, FIND THE PASS and stretch the defence before everyone gets back.

Cant blame Samaras and Fortune for McGeady being a ineffective winger, he's ineffective for Ireland aswell. Its clearly not a Celtic thing.

McGeady is a good dribbler but has a very inconsistent end product. That has been proven all throughout his career for club and country to date. I wouldnt pay £30M for that, you are deluded to think that anyone would.

Poindexter, would you challenge anything Dempsey has written here? Its spot on the money IMHO. I don't believe any football fan, other than those with very very green tinted glasses on, could come to any other consensus on McGeady.

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

McGeady is a good dribbler but has a very inconsistent end product. That has been proven all throughout his career for club and country to date. I wouldnt pay £30M for that, you are deluded to think that anyone would.

The £30m was very much a tongue in cheek valuation given the over valuation of many players these days.

However, I would turn down a bit of £10m without batting an eyelid.

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The £30m was very much a tongue in cheek valuation given the over valuation of many players these days.

However, I would turn down a bit of £10m without batting an eyelid.

I know and I'd turn down £10M too (not next year though if he's not improved) only because I know there are idiot clubs very tempted to pay upto £15M for him. Being able to get a club to pay over the odds doesnt make a player worth that amount.

e.g. Hutton was worth £9M but he didnt want to leave Rangers either
Berbatov cost £30M, who'd pay that now? The player hasnt gotten better/worse. Man United really wanted him for reasons unknown to everyone else.

Brewster

Dempsey wrote: »

I know and I'd turn down £10M too (not next year though if he's not improved) only because I know there are idiot clubs very tempted to pay upto £15M for him. Being able to get a club to pay over the odds doesnt make a player worth that amount.

e.g. Hutton was worth £9M but he didnt want to leave Rangers either
Berbatov cost £30M, who'd pay that now? The player hasnt gotten better/worse. Man United really wanted him for reasons unknown to everyone else.

Player values are all arbitary. Clubs will only play what they feel player is worth to them, and this determines their value. Like if moneybags Man City fancied McGeady, and Celtic didn't want to sell him, I could see them bidding 10-15m pounds to tempt Celtic to sell him. Transfer fees are determined by a number of factors

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

Player values are all arbitary. Clubs will only play what they feel player is worth to them, and this determines their value. Like if moneybags Man City fancied McGeady, and Celtic didn't want to sell him, I could see them bidding 10-15m pounds to tempt Celtic to sell him. Transfer fees are determined by a number of factors

Five main things in ascertaining a player's worth...

1. Player's ability? One of the best wingers around - not too many better wingers in Europe.

2. Does player want to leave? No.

3. Does he have long left on contract? 3 and a half years

4. Does the club he's with need to sell? Not in the slightest.

5. How badly he's wanted by the buying club(s)? £9m turned down from Birmingham the other day.

It would seem that McGeady is currently worth, at the very least, £10m.

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Five main things in ascertaining a player's worth...

1. Player's ability? One of the best wingers around - not too many better wingers in Europe.

2. Does player want to leave? No.

3. Does he have long left on contract? 3 and a half years

4. Does the club he's with need to sell? Not in the slightest.

5. How badly he's wanted by the buying club(s)? £9m turned down from Birmingham the other day.

It would seem that McGeady is currently worth, at the very least, £10m.

Bobby, Id happily agree on 2-5! Not sure if McGeady is one of the best wingers in Europe though, just can't see it.

therokerroar

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If Alan Hutton went for £9m then McGeady is worth over £30m.

Are you on crack? :rolleyes:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dear me surely people are not still acting like this in this day and age

Sean St Ledger in the Irish Daily Star today complains about not getting his move to the Celtic which is fair enough but finishes his piece by stating and I quote.

" I am a Catholic as well so it would have been massive for me"

What an absolute Phannie

Brewster

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Dear me surely people are not still acting like this in this day and age

Sean St Ledger in the Irish Daily Star today complains about not getting his move to the Celtic which is fair enough but finishes his piece by stating and I quote.

" I am a Catholic as well so it would have been massive for me"

What an absolute Phannie

Very disappointing Broxi, very very naive and stupid of the boy.

Dempsey

Sorry if him being a catholic disappoints the the Orange Lodge :pac:

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

Sorry if him being a catholic disappoints the the Orange Lodge :pac:

Why what have they got to do with it

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

Sorry if him being a catholic disappoints the the Orange Lodge :pac:

Quiet down Dempsey...The Establishment is watching!

PauloMN

Quiet news day in Scotland when they have to print the opinions of Roy Keane on Celtic's situation:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/celtic/2010/02/05/exclusive-celtic-s-signing-of-robbie-keane-will-not-be-enought-to-stop-rangers-winning-spl-title-says-roy-keane-86908-22019924/

Back in yer box Roy.

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

Very disappointing Broxi, very very naive and stupid of the boy.

Why?

what's wrong with what he said?

CHD

PauloMN wrote: »

Quiet news day in Scotland when they have to print the opinions of Roy Keane on Celtic's situation:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/celtic/2010/02/05/exclusive-celtic-s-signing-of-robbie-keane-will-not-be-enought-to-stop-rangers-winning-spl-title-says-roy-keane-86908-22019924/

Back in yer box Roy.

Eh, he's speaking sense.

Also McGeady worth 30M?? lolz

Be lucky to get someone stupid enough with cash to give you half that. Might get 12M or so off Birmingham or someone in the summer if you are lucky.

premierstone

CHD wrote: »

Eh, he's speaking sense.

Also McGeady worth 30M?? lolz

Be lucky to get someone stupid enough with cash to give you half that. Might get 12M or so off Birmingham or someone in the summer if you are lucky.

The £30m was tounge in cheek from Bobby and more of a commentary on some of the crazy fees paid in the past, but the comment that started the debate was that Celtic would be lucky to get £4m for him, surely this is more redicilous?? Especially considering we have turned down a bid of £9m in the last week, was he's performance against Killie really that bad???

CHD

premierstone wrote: »

The £30m was tounge in cheek from Bobby and more of a commentary on some of the crazy fees paid in the past, but the comment that started the debate was that Celtic would be lucky to get £4m for him, surely this is more redicilous?? Especially considering we have turned down a bid of £9m in the last week, was he's performance against Killie really that bad???

He is worth a little over 9M but he looks good in the SPL, he won't be anywhere near as good as that in the EPL. Celtic's best chance at big money is a club like Wolves, Birmingham splashing their kitty on him.

premierstone

CHD wrote: »

He is worth a little over 9M

We'll thats the whole point I've been trying to make, personally when you take into account he's age, potential, contractual situation and talent I would value him at between £12m and £15m, and the suggestion that Celtic would be lucky to get £4m was laughable tbh.

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Why?

what's wrong with what he said?

Whats being a Catholic got to do with playing for Celtic? Why come out and say something like this? Did he think he was going to make himself look good to a section of the Celtic support???

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

Whats being a Catholic got to do with playing for Celtic? Why come out and say something like this? Did he think he was going to make himself look good to a section of the Celtic support???

I don't know why he said it... I just want to know why you think it's wrong or a problem...

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I don't know why he said it... I just want to know why you think it's wrong or a problem...

Why because it plays up to the bigots on either side

"I am a catholic so I must play for Celtic" what nonsense. I am a catholic and have never had any desire to play for or even support Celtic we don't all go about with religious prejudices its 2010 we should all be trying to move forward

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I don't know why he said it... I just want to know why you think it's wrong or a problem...

It is easy to deduce why he said it, he thought he would be endeering himself to a section of the Celtic support by spouting such rubbish! We have discussed this issue plenty on here, and I am not getting into it again. We simply won't agree on it.

As Broxi said, there are millions of Catholics that have no interest in supporting or playing for Celtic.

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Why because it plays up to the bigots on either side

"I am a catholic so I must play for Celtic" what nonsense. I am a catholic and have never had any desire to play for or even support Celtic we don't all go about with religious prejudices its 2010 we should all be trying to move forward

I've no interest whatsoever in any religion, I couldn't care less about it... but saying what St Ledger said does not equate to sectarianism or "religious prejudice" in any way.

I think what he said was quite stupid due to it being an absolutely irrelevant statement but I'm utterly bemused as to how you think it's "playing up to the bigots" and why Brewster thinks he a "very very naive boy" - he said nothing wrong but you guys have taken it as an offensive statement of some sort.

St Ledger might have played up to stereotypes but what he said is in no way bigotted or inflammatory.

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

It is easy to deduce why he said it, he thought he would be endeering himself to a section of the Celtic support by spouting such rubbish! We have discussed this issue plenty on here, and I am not getting into it again. We simply won't agree on it.

As Broxi said, there are millions of Catholics that have no interest in supporting or playing for Celtic.

Huh??? Won't agree on what???

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I've no interest whatsoever in any religion, I couldn't care less about it... but saying what St Ledger said does not equate to sectarianism or "religious prejudice" in any way.

I think what he said was quite stupid due to it being an absolutely irrelevant statement but I'm utterly bemused as to how you think it's "playing up to the bigots" and why Brewster thinks he a "very very naive boy" - he said nothing wrong but you guys have taken it as an offensive statement of some sort.

St Ledger might have played up to stereotypes but what he said is in no way bigotted or inflammatory.

I did not say it was inflammatory in any way.... Just said it was naive and stupid to say such a thing. I know why he said it as he thought it would be a popular thing to say.

"I am a Catholic!"...... I would love to ask him how many times he went to Mass in 2009??

Just a ridiculous thing to come out with. Its nothing to do with football or him being denied a move to Celtic...

~Rebel~

It might have made some sense if it were Roma he wanted to move to, to be close to the Pope and St Peters Cathedral or something if he was a deeply religious man, but theres nought religious about a football club. IMO a stupid thing to say. Its not like Celtic are representing the armies of God against the darkness or something, they're a football club. And playing a for a football club can really not be considered a religious act.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I've no interest whatsoever in any religion, I couldn't care less about it... but saying what St Ledger said does not equate to sectarianism or "religious prejudice" in any way.

I think what he said was quite stupid due to it being an absolutely irrelevant statement but I'm utterly bemused as to how you think it's "playing up to the bigots" and why Brewster thinks he a "very very naive boy" - he said nothing wrong but you guys have taken it as an offensive statement of some sort.

St Ledger might have played up to stereotypes but what he said is in no way bigotted or inflammatory.

You should know better than that Bobby in the context of the OF you know people will take something out of it.

Imagine the uproar if a player came out and said I want to join Rangers because I am a Protestant

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You should know better than that Bobby in the context of the OF you know people will take something out of it.

Imagine the uproar if a player came out and said I want to join Rangers because I am a Protestant

Why would there be uproar?

I just don't get it... I think it was a stupid thing to say as well, not because of pandering or sectarianism but just because it's an utterly irrelevant statement.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Why would there be uproar?

I just don't get it... I think it was a stupid thing to say as well, not because of pandering or sectarianism but just because it's an utterly irrelevant statement.

Not being cheeky Bobby do you or have you ever lived in Glasgow

PauloMN

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

I am a catholic and have never had any desire to play for or even support Celtic we don't all go about with religious prejudices its 2010 we should all be trying to move forward

.... but worse than that, you're a Catholic who supports Rangers! :eek:

You are quite clearly off your rocker BBE.

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Not being cheeky Bobby do you or have you ever lived in Glasgow

No mate (not taken in a cheeky way).