English Premier League Superthread 2009/10

therecklessone

EPL General Discussion Thread Aug 1st 2009

This thread is for team talk, rumours, and general debate pertaining to the EPL. This thread is open for all users to post in. There are no preferences for fans of any team, there are currently a number of Superthreads for individual teams if posters want to restrict their discussions.

This thread may be used for discussions of relative strengths of certain players/managers/squads/teams and direct comparisons across club lines.

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- Match threads will be created for matches/match weeks where required.
- Match discussion will be deleted.

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- We will merge/split discussion on requests
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3. If you wish to post in this thread please show some respect for the league and fans of clubs who play in the league. You can be critical without being insulting.

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syngindub

top four

1. man united
2. chelsea
3. man city
4. liverpool


botttom four

17. Birmingham
18. Hull City
19. Stoke City
20. Burnley

Mr. Guappa

Predictions:

1. Liverpool
2. Chelsea
3. United
4. Arsenal
5. The Spurs
6. Everton
7. Villa
8. Citeh
9. Hammers
10. Bolton
11. Fulham
12. Sunderland
13. Stoke
14. Blackburn
15. Wolves
16. Wigan
17. Pompey
18. Birmingham
19. Hull
20. Burnley

Top Scorer: Torres

If Alonso does go I might review my prediction, I think United look weak in midfield without Ronnie, Chelsea under Ancelotti could go either way. If Arsenal keep van Persie and Cesc fit and sign a good DM then they could really challenge for the title. I reckon City will flatter to deceive, I dont think they have anyone to get stuck in when the going get tough. I have Villa at 7th but they could really fall away this season.. they have lost Laursen and Barry, 2 key guys, and Gabby really lost confidence after Christmas last year.

At the bottom, its hard to see Burnley picking up too many points, Hull have had a horrible 2009 so far and Pompey have really gutted their squad over the last few months.

In general I hope the title race is a close run affair between 3 teams and that someone (Spurs:D) steps up to really challenge the mind numbing Big 4 dominance

everdead.ie

1. United
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. City
7. Everton
8. Villa
9. West Ham
10. Fulham
11. Sunderland
12. Blackburn
13. Bolton
14. Wigan
15. Wolves
16. Burnley
17. Stoke
18. Birmingham
19. Pompey
20. Hull

Top Scorer: Torres 20+

syngindub

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Predictions:
I think United look weak in midfield without Ronnie,

really ye? I think Rooney playing centre forward and not midfield poses a greater risk to the opposing team

Mr. Guappa

syngindub wrote: »

really ye? I think Rooney playing centre forward and not midfield poses a greater risk to the opposing team

I dont think a midfield of Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Park, or Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes, Nani or whatever combination he goes with will be strong enough to dominate teams in the Premiership, and Rooney up top will not make up for the loss of Ronaldos goals as teams will be able to concentrate more on stopping Rooney this season. Owen and especially Berba really need to step up this season to keep the trophy at Old Trafford this time next year

JPA

everdead.ie wrote: »

1. United
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. City
7. Everton
8. Villa
9. West Ham
10. Fulham
11. Sunderland
12. Blackburn
13. Bolton
14. Wigan
15. Wolves
16. Burnley
17. Stoke
18. Birmingham
19. Pompey
20. Hull

Top Scorer: Torres 20+

spurs fan eh? Ever the optimist.

Eire-Dearg

Hmm, I'll try have an unbiased go at this...

1. Liverpool (OK, I'm aiming high - but I'm confident)
2. Chelsea (Think they'll be awesome this year - just drop points here and there.)
3. Man Utd (Just don't think they'll settle after Ronaldo - and midfield isn't good enough.)
4. Man City
5. Arsenal (Oooh - controversial)
6. Everton
7. West Ham
8. Aston Villa
9. Tottenham
10. Fulham
11. Wigan
12. Sunderland
13. Wolves (Class young squad - should do well - then probably fall into second season syndrome)
14. Pompey
15. Stoke
16. Bolton
17. Blackburn
18. Birmingham
19. Burnley
20. Hull (starting to detest Hull - but mainly Phil Brown)

syngindub

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I dont think a midfield of Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Park, or Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes, Nani or whatever combination he goes with will be strong enough to dominate teams in the Premiership

name a stronger midfield with more versatility than that then in the league. i reckon it's quite strong for what the rest have to offer over the course of a full league campaign

Mr Alan

syngindub wrote: »

name a stronger midfield with more versatility than that then in the league. i reckon it's quite strong for what the rest have to offer over the course of a full league campaign

Alonso-Gerrard-Mascherano-Lucas-Kuyt-Riera-Babel-Benayoun

Mikel-Lampard-Ballack-Essien-Cole-Zhirkov-Malouda-Deco

Both quite comfortably better than United's current midfield options imo.

Eire-Dearg

Mr Alan wrote: »

Alonso-Gerrard-Mascherano-Lucas-Kuyt-Riera-Babel-Benayoun

Mikel-Lampard-Ballack-Essien-Cole-Zhirkov-Malouda-Deco

Both quite comfortably better than United's current midfield options imo.

I'd have to agree. And with Essien and Cole soon back from injury, that's a ****ing class MF Chelsea have right there.

And if we lose Alonso, and gain Acquilani and/or Cattermole, it's still a fantastic midfield.

Dub13

I miss football so much that I even miss Phil 'I am celebrity' Brown,am I sick..?

syngindub

Mr Alan wrote: »

Alonso-Gerrard-Mascherano-Lucas-Kuyt-Riera-Babel-Benayoun

Mikel-Lampard-Ballack-Essien-Cole-Zhirkov-Malouda-Deco

Both quite comfortably better than United's current midfield options imo.

where do i start
Liverpool : Alonso is on his way..adios. Gerard is pure class..the rest just mediocre. end of
Chelsea : Ballack's best days are over, Cole injured, Deco wants out.. sorry

Mr Alan

so where's the "pure class" in Utds midfield?

criticisms leveled at Ballack are also equally (if not more applicable) to Giggs & Scholes in the Utd midfield.

Plus i think If Alonso leaves, i think he'll be replaced by a very good player.

DM_7

Good luck to the three new sides Wolves, Birmingham and Burnley

Looking at the teams lining up this season the promoted teams have a good chance of staying up. Few teams have improved this season and plenty of established premier league clubs have found themselves in trouble in recent times.

Extra good wishes to the Irish Players, we need every player we can get playing regular top grade football.

Eire-Dearg

syngindub wrote: »

where do i start
Liverpool : Alonso is on his way..adios. Gerard is pure class..the rest just mediocre. end of

Alonso isn't gone yet, and we'll probably get a top class replacement.

Kuyt? Absolute assist machine, fair share of goals, never injured, 90 minute man, and so on. Benayoun? Goals regularly, and important ones, when he plays. Versatile, trustworthy. Riera? And last but not least, Masherano? Lucas is developing big time, and this could be Babel's year.

Chelsea : Ballack's best days are over, Cole injured, Deco wants out.. sorry

Zhirkov, Essien, Lampard and Malouda alone is better than Utd's midfield. Not to mention Kalou, Mikel, Cole will be back, Deco is still at the club and Ballack is still top class, despite what people think.

Mr. Guappa

syngindub wrote: »

name a stronger midfield with more versatility than that then in the league. i reckon it's quite strong for what the rest have to offer over the course of a full league campaign

They have a lot of depth alright but I just dont think they have the pure class there that they have had previously, they are solid but they dont have a Gerrard, Fabregas, Lampard or Ronaldo who makes a solid looking midfield a lot more threatening

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

so where's the "pure class" in Utds midfield?

criticisms leveled at Ballack are also equally (if not more applicable) to Giggs & Scholes in the Utd midfield.

Plus i think If Alonso leaves, i think he'll be replaced by a very good player.

carrick

* Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
* FA Community Shield (2): 2007, 2008
* UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
* FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

na ye wont buy another player,lucas will fill the gap,he sure is good enough alright

syngindub

to be honest, there is no individual pure class in united's midfield, can't hide from that. over the course of a full league campaign thought, i'm comfident that certain players in the utd team will step up to the mark though.

Eire-Dearg

Headshot wrote: »

carrick

* Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
* FA Community Shield (2): 2007, 2008
* UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
* FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Wow, rolling out his honours means nothing.

Djimi Traore: FA Cup (2), League Cup, UEFA Cup, Community Shield (hehe), Super Cup, and of course the Champions League....

na ye wont buy another player,lucas will fill the gap,he sure is good enough alright

Of course we will. I'm thinking big name like Acquilani, if not Rafa will have someone up his sleeve - and be delighted to use the £30m odd if we sell Alonso.

Liam O

Seriously though, a midfield consisting of Fletcher and Giggs dominated Chelsea's three man midfield last season albeit without Essien. The Chelsea midfield dominated arguably the most skilled midfield in the world. People say this season that United's midfield is weak. Well how many PL winners medals do they have in comparison to the 'superior' Liverpool midfield. I didn't see anyone complaining about United's weak midfield at this time last season when in case nobody's noticed, the same people were there if anything, Fletcher has improved greatly so we are better in midfield than this time last season. I'd fancy the United midfield instead of a Mascherano-Lucas CM partnership, which unless Rafa buys a top class striker or midfielder to replace Alonso which is unlikely imo, is a distinct possibility to start the season for Liverpool

Headshot

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Wow, rolling out his honours means nothing.

Djimi Traore: FA Cup (2), League Cup, UEFA Cup, Community Shield (hehe), Super Cup, and of course the Champions League....



Of course we will. I'm thinking big name like Acquilani, if not Rafa will have someone up his sleeve - and be delighted to use the £30m odd if we sell Alonso.

eyes are growing tired I dont see the PL

jebus if alonso goes and ye bring in Acquilani, man ill be over the moon

you do know your club is owned by 2 americans who like their money,wouldnt suprise me if ye only get 15m spend

Eire-Dearg

Liam O wrote: »

which unless Rafa buys a top class striker or midfielder to replace Alonso which is unlikely imo, is a distinct possibility to start the season for Liverpool

How is it highly unlikely we won't get a top quality replacement?!

Liam O

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Wow, rolling out his honours means nothing.

Djimi Traore: FA Cup (2), League Cup, UEFA Cup, Community Shield (hehe), Super Cup, and of course the Champions League....



Of course we will. I'm thinking big name like Acquilani, if not Rafa will have someone up his sleeve - and be delighted to use the £30m odd if we sell Alonso.

If Aquilani was such a big name I think you may have learnt how to spell his name :P

seriously though, I doubt Rafa would spend the £30m on 1 player. Knowing him he'll buy 6 £5m players to plug the gap...

Headshot

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

How is it highly unlikely we won't get a top quality replacement?!

Liam O

Headshot wrote: »

eyes are growing tired I dont see the PL

And that's game

DM_7

Cesc, Denilson, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Nasri, Walcott and Ramsey is a pretty good set of players and over the next couple of years will be better than all the other midfield combos mentioned (if they are not already better).

syngindub

man, i'd love to see this fella gracing a pitch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ2976_rR_s

Eire-Dearg

Headshot wrote: »

eyes are growing tired I dont see the PL

jebus if alonso goes and ye bring in Acquilani, man ill be over the moon

you do know your club is owned by 2 americans who like their money,wouldnt suprise me if ye only get 15m spend

If it wasn't so late I'd probably think of a completely **** player who has a Premier League medal on his mantle.

Whatever they have in their cabinet means nothing IMO, it doesn't prove quality whatsoever. It's like saying, a year ago, that Henry was **** compared to Traore because he doesn't have a CL medal. (thankfully it was remedied this year!)

Owen doesn't have a PL medal - does that disapprove of his quality compared to strikers who have?
Rafa will use the money he gets from Alonso for a replacement. Simple as. Such a gaping hole won't be left open. And it's absolutely ridiculous to think it will be.

Eire-Dearg

Liam O wrote: »

seriously though, I doubt Rafa would spend the £30m on 1 player. Knowing him he'll buy 6 £5m players to plug the gap...

"Knowing him" When has he been in the situation to spend that kind of money before, eh?

Liam O

DM-ICE wrote: »

Cesc, Denilson, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Nasri, Walcott and Ramsey is a pretty good set of players and over the next couple of years will be better than all the other midfield combos mentioned (if they are not already better).

tbh while I think Fabregas is the best in the league at what he does, none of those are a good foil for him at CM. He needs a good-great DM to play beside him and add physical presence which is what Arsenal really lack at the moment. Arshavin is also no spring chicken (28?). I think Rosicky and Nasri are great players, shame they're always injured...Walcott hasn't really developed that much in 2 years and is still very inconsistent.

Eire-Dearg

Headshot wrote: »

(pic of g&h)

Of course. G&H will bleed the money handed to Rafa - who has "full control over transfers" so instead of buying a centre midfielder, we'll just settle with Lucas. Yep - that's where our ambitions are at.

Last time I checked, Alonso was still a Liverpool player, anyways.

Morzadec

Think it's really really tough to predict. Toughest in years. It's so close up there that I think it may well come down to who has the best luck with injuries. And of course it's hard to predict as there will be more transfers. But here it goes... Going to try and put all bias aside and look at the relative strengths of the squads.

1. Chelsea
2. Liverpool
3. United
4. Arsenal

Don't think the top 4s dominance will be ended.

5. Spurs
6. City
7. Everton
8. Villa
9. Sunderland
10. West Ham
11. Fulham
12. Bolton
13. Blackburn
14. Wolves
15. Stoke
16. Wigan
17. Birmingham
18. Portsmouth
19. Burnley
20. Hull

These are the betting odds from Paddypower just to give an idea of how the title race is viewed objectively:

- Man United 15/8

- Chelsea 21/10

- Liverpool 3/1

- Arseanl 9/1

- Man City 12/1


Must be the first time in a long time (correct me if I'm wrong if anyone can remember) that we have 3 teams with relatively short odds for the title. As I said, must be the toughest to pedict in years. For me Chelsea's squad looks brilliant especially with the players back from injury, but a lot is dependent on Ancellotti.

Torres has to be favourite for top scorer, largely dependent on his fitness. Although he's had a good rest this year unlike last so he should play more games which will be massive for Liverpool's title hunt.

Headshot

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

If it wasn't so late I'd probably think of a completely **** player who has a Premier League medal on his mantle.

Whatever they have in their cabinet means nothing IMO, it doesn't prove quality whatsoever. It's like saying, a year ago, that Henry was **** compared to Traore because he doesn't have a CL medal. (thankfully it was remedied this year!)

Owen doesn't have a PL medal - does that disapprove of his quality compared to strikers who have?
Rafa will use the money he gets from Alonso for a replacement. Simple as. Such a gaping hole won't be left open. And it's absolutely ridiculous to think it will be.

carrick came in 2006 and he hasnt stopped winning the league since

he's a very good player but if i was going to be harsh he's not the best against the big teams but the PL has 16 so-so teams we should beat

i think he has been crucial to utd success,and just recently hit his prime

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Of course. G&H will bleed the money handed to Rafa - who has "full control over transfers" so instead of buying a centre midfielder, we'll just settle with Lucas. Yep - that's where our ambitions are at.

Last time I checked, Alonso was still a Liverpool player, anyways.

lol is the pic that bad

Liam O

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

"Knowing him" When has he been in the situation to spend that kind of money before, eh?

you cannot be serious? He spent more than that last Summer ffs. And the Summer before that as far as I remember. I'm sure a stat check that I'm too lazy to do will confirm that he's spent that much in 3 or 4 Summers

Eire-Dearg

Man City at 12/1 eh? Miracles do happen - might be worth a pop.

Eire-Dearg

Liam O wrote: »

you cannot be serious? He spent more than that last Summer ffs. And the Summer before that as far as I remember. I'm sure a stat check that I'm too lazy to do will confirm that he's spent that much in 3 or 4 Summers

My bad use of English, I'll re-phrase...

When has he received that (£30m-ish) kind of money to replace the player directly?

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

tbh while I think Fabregas is the best in the league at what he does, none of those are a good foil for him at CM. He needs a good-great DM to play beside him and add physical presence which is what Arsenal really lack at the moment. Arshavin is also no spring chicken (28?). I think Rosicky and Nasri are great players, shame they're always injured...Walcott hasn't really developed that much in 2 years and is still very inconsistent.

Good points. I'm judging each player as an individual. They are all class as far as i'm concerned and the younger ones have a foundation to build upon and improve this season.

I wouldn't expect much improvement from Liverpool or Chelseas group while United have players that can improve but they have to offset the loss of Ronaldo. The Arsenal Group can really improve this year and I would expect additions before the start of the season.

I had assumed the debate going on was about the best set of names rather than the best unit.

At the moment the Arsenal group may not be the best unit but if they all were fit for a while they may develop into a top class unit.

Eire-Dearg

Headshot wrote: »

carrick came in 2006 and he hasnt stopped winning the league since

he's a very good player but if i was going to be harsh he's not the best against the big teams but the PL has 16 so-so teams we should beat

i think he has been crucial to utd success,and just recently hit his prime

I'm not arguing how good he is - your proving to me he's better then those previously mentioned (1st page) by rolling out his honours.

The original debate was who has the better midfield. Our main centre midfielders (Alonso and Masch) and Chelsea's (Lampard and Essien) are considerably better than yours - and many seem to think so.

Unfortunately ours don't happen to have a PL medal - so we're automatically ****. :rolleyes:

Royale with Cheese

I'm gonna go with Chelsea to win it, they're the only team (Man City aside) that has actually improved their squad this summer.

I'd be fairly surprised if United win it with their current squad.

Arsenal will struggle to make 4th if they don't make at least one or two more signings, and some other club can actually put together a decent season.

Liam O

DM-ICE wrote: »

Good points. I'm judging each player as an individual. They are all class as far as i'm concerned and the younger ones have a foundation to build upon and improve this season.

I wouldn't expect much improvement from Liverpool or Chelseas group while United have players that can improve but they have to offset the loss of Ronaldo. The Arsenal Group can really improve this year and I would expect additions before the start of the season.

I had assumed the debate going on was about the best set of names rather than the best unit.

At the moment the Arsenal group may not be the best unit but if they all were fit for a while they may develop into a top class unit.

I agree with that, however Rosicky hasn't played much in a year, Arshavin will be a striker with RVP this season imo which still leaves Fabregas with either Diaby or Denilson who are good squad players, but not up to the standard that Arsenal should demand. If they'd have gotten Melo they would've been a force to be reckoned with and I think they should've made a move for Cana before Sunderland got him

5starpool

My top 8:

Chelsea
Liverpool
Utd
City
Arsenal
Everton
Villa
Spurs

Middle few:

West Ham
Sunderland
Fulham
Blackburn
Bolton

Bottom few:

Stoke
Wigan
Wolves
Birmingham
Portsmouth
Hull
Burnley

If Chelse keep Drogba/Essien fit all season (especially Essien) they will be very hard to beat. If Liverpool replace Alonso (or keep him, albeit unlikely) with someone that can produce the goods, then Liverpool will be very close again this season. As things stand, Utd have too big a hole with Ronaldo gone, and unless they spend some of that money to try and increase their options, then I think they will not win the league, although I am far from writing them off.

Xavi6

Going with -

1. Chelsea
2. United
3. Liverpool
4. City
5. Arsenal
6. Everton
7. Spurs
8. Villa
9. West Ham
10.Fulham
11.Bolton
12.Sunderland
13.Wigan
14.Blackburn
15.Stoke
16.Portsmouth
17.Birmingham
18.Wolves
19.Hull
20.Burnley

I've watched Hull twice in the last few days on their Asian tour and they are shocking. Got destroyed by Spurs 3-0 last night and will really struggle, though there are some shocking squads that will hover around the bottom 6 or so.

Think City can potentially get 4th but doubt it will happen. Chelsea are going to be good this year. Having Essien and Carvalho fit again is like two new signings so they're the team to beat for me. United have lost two great players but will still have enough to see off Liverpool who will suffer if anything happens to Gerrard and Torres.

everdead.ie

JPA wrote: »

spurs fan eh? Ever the optimist.

I have to be

angel01

Interested to see where Man City can finish, hopefully a big flop

mayordenis

5starpool wrote: »

My top 8:

Chelsea
Liverpool
Utd
City
Arsenal
Everton
Villa
Spurs

Middle few:

West Ham
Sunderland
Fulham
Blackburn
Bolton

Bottom few:

Stoke
Wigan
Wolves
Birmingham
Portsmouth
Hull
Burnley

If Chelse keep Drogba/Essien fit all season (especially Essien) they will be very hard to beat. If Liverpool replace Alonso (or keep him, albeit unlikely) with someone that can produce the goods, then Liverpool will be very close again this season. As things stand, Utd have too big a hole with Ronaldo gone, and unless they spend some of that money to try and increase their options, then I think they will not win the league, although I am far from writing them off.

Do you have those in order? or just seperated into groups that could end in any part of their group??

CHD

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Man City at 12/1 eh? Miracles do happen - might be worth a pop.

This is why bookies make money.

mike65

I'm not going to be so dumb as to try to guess.

jesus_thats_gre

Tis great to see the childish bickering with one world replies and pictures returning...

As for predictions, based on the current squads:

1. Chelsea
2. Liverpool
3. United
4. City
5. Arsenal
6. Everton
7. Spurs
8. Villa
9. West Ham
10.Fulham
11.Bolton
12.Sunderland
13.Blackburn
14.Wigan
15.Stoke
16.Portsmouth
17.Birmingham
18.Wolves
19.Hull
20.Burnley

Still quite a lot of changes to come at Liverpool, United, Arsenal and City in my opinion so that list could change quite a bit.

SlickRic

i'm surprised to see so many going for utd in 3rd. i'd love to see it and all, but ronaldo or not, they're ridiculously adept at beating so-so teams, and have been for many years now.

i'd be surprised to see them not in the top-2 positions.

if ancelotti hits the ground running, i can't see past Chelsea with that squad.

liverpool's challenge depends on alonso staying (unlikely), or on a replacement adapting and hitting form quickly. but i'm confident we'll be close.

with arsenal, they're two signings away from being genuine contenders imo.

citeh...meh. until it's done on the pitch i remain unconvinced. 5th would be an excellent season.

hull, burnley and stoke to go down. hull with an all-time low points total. they are abysmal.

match i'm really looking forward to...the first hull-arsenal match. :pac:

jesus_thats_gre

Just calling it as I see things now..

For me, United had 4 world class players in attack and Liverpool had 2. Liverpool have stood still in terms of attack while United have lost 2 world class players and added Owen. United are slightly better defensively but Liverpool's central midfield means they just pip it for me.

As I said though, it that will likely change depending on who leaves or arrives at either club.