English Premier League Superthread 2009/10

Karmafaerie

1892?!

That's the year Liverpool were founded!
It's a sign I tells ya!!!
Number 19 is on it's way to Anfield!:p

JPA

Karmafaerie wrote: »

1892?!

That's the year Liverpool were founded!
It's a sign I tells ya!!!
Number 19 is on it's way to Anfield!:p

IS there ever a year when there's not a sign? :pac:

Stargate

JPA wrote: »

IS there ever a year when there's not a sign? :pac:

yip 64 bc

mike65

Why was Federico Macheda played? Was it cos Fergie had run out of options?

edit Villa - Utd squad

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Neville, O'Shea, Evans, Evra, Nani (Macheda 61), Carrick, Fletcher, Ronaldo, Giggs, Tevez (Welbeck 87).
Subs Not Used: Foster, Park, Gibson, Martin, Eckersley.

All_in_Flynn

mike65 wrote: »

Why was Federico Macheda played? Was it cos Fergie had run out of options?

edit Villa - Utd squad

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Neville, O'Shea, Evans, Evra, Nani (Macheda 61), Carrick, Fletcher, Ronaldo, Giggs, Tevez (Welbeck 87).
Subs Not Used: Foster, Park, Gibson, Martin, Eckersley.

Ye Macheda came on against Villa cause we had little other option and needed a goal threat!

But he earned his place on the bench with his performances in the U18's and the reserves. Thats the difference between Fergie and alot of other managers; he has a history of giving youth a chance.

Another point is that United simply have better and more developed individuals at youth level than Liverpool do so its not entirely Rafa's fault for not putting more faith in the youngsters as the players may not be developed enough yet!

whatawaster

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Another point is that United simply have better and more developed individuals at youth level than Liverpool do so its not entirely Rafa's fault for not putting more faith in the youngsters as the players may not be developed enough yet!

and you know this for a fact?

All_in_Flynn

whatawaster wrote: »

and you know this for a fact?

Well for example, who do you have at youth level that is more developed than Macheda, Welbeck or Evans?

whatawaster

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Well for example, who do you have at youth level that is more developed than Macheda, Welbeck or Evans?

Evans is 21 and has made 20 PL appearances for United
Insua is 20 and has made 17 and is now probably first choice or close to it.
Similarly N'Gog is only 20 and has 15 apps for Liverpool.
None of them are youths anymore really

As for Macheda and Wellbeck, i think Daniel Pacheco will prove to be as good as them, and he's a similar age. Not as physically developed though.

8-10

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Well for example, who do you have at youth level that is more developed than Macheda, Welbeck or Evans?

Insua

All_in_Flynn

whatawaster wrote: »

Evans is 21 and has made 20 PL appearances for United
Insua is 20 and has made 17 and is now probably first choice or close to it.
Similarly N'Gog is only 20 and has 15 apps for Liverpool.
None of them are youths anymore really

As for Macheda and Wellbeck, i think Daniel Pacheco will prove to be as good as them, and he's a similar age. Not as physically developed though.

Im not here to argue that Uniteds youth set up is better or who has the more talented players(even tho I mentioned the word in a previous post).

The bulk of my post was aimed at the points made about Rafa not giving youth a chance and then refering to Fergie as an example of how it should be done. I was just highlighting the point that Rafa may simply not have youth who are currently far enough into their development in order to be trusted with stepping in when there are injuries. Hence Rafa buying the Greek!

United have been able to bring in players into the first team because they have proven they are developed enough and able to handle the rigours of the PL.

All_in_Flynn

8-10 wrote: »

Insua

You think he is more developed or accomplished than Evans?

Jog on!

missingtime

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

But he earned his place on the bench with his performances in the U18's and the reserves. Thats the difference between Fergie and alot of other managers; he has a history of giving youth a chance.

Ferguson has a history cos he has been managing for years. He has built close to four teams at the club. Rafa is only building his first.

I think its a little unfair to compare the two.

8-10

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

You think he is more developed or accomplished than Evans?

Jog on!

I think he's more likely to be a first choice when everyone's fit. I don't think Evans is going to displace Ferdinand or Vidic quite yet if both are fit. Insua could easliy be a first choice.

8-10

missingtime wrote: »

Ferguson has a history cos he has been managing for years. He has built close to four teams at the club. Rafa is only building his first.

I think its a little unfair to compare the two.

I think he might be a Utd supporter, the obvious example if he was trying to make the point would be Wenger and Arsenal. Cesc and Clichy were regulars and very well developed when they entered the team young.

All_in_Flynn

missingtime wrote: »

Ferguson has a history cos he has been managing for years. He has built close to four teams at the club. Rafa is only building his first.

I think its a little unfair to compare the two.

Im not comparing Fergie to Rafa. In fact im defending Rafa in a way!

Karmafaerie

There's a difference between potential and current ability.

Ngog is bigger and stronger, so it's easier to step up at a younger age.

All_in_Flynn

8-10 wrote: »

I think he's more likely to be a first choice when everyone's fit. I don't think Evans is going to displace Ferdinand or Vidic quite yet if both are fit. Insua could easliy be a first choice.

This is a terrible point. It would be quite clear to the vast majority of people that Evans is the more accomplished player. Who has Insua got to compete with and than look at who Evans has! You can't compare.

All_in_Flynn

Karmafaerie wrote: »

There's a difference between potential and current ability.

Ngog is bigger and stronger, so it's easier to step up at a younger age.

Exaclty. Rafa, I dont think, has the players who are currenlty developed enough yet to throw into the first team. He may well have in a season or two. Im not here to argue or dispute that.

whatawaster

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

This is a terrible point. It would be quite clear to the vast majority of people that Evans is the more accomplished player. Who has Insua got to compete with and than look at who Evans has! You can't compare.

I think Insua, who has less experience in English football, is younger and not as used to the english culture, is every bit as accomplished as Evans, who i rate as a very good player, not top class, but very good.

Insua has Aurelio to compete with who is a very experienced and quality Left Back. He's also jumped past Dossena, who, although hasn't set the English game alight, is still second choice italian full-back

8-10

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Rafa, I dont think, has the players who are currenlty developed enough yet to throw into the first team.

He has Insua, and he does throw him in, regularly, and he's playing well. You may not rate him as developed enough but for a 20 year old I certainly think he is.

All_in_Flynn

whatawaster wrote: »

I think Insua, who has less experience in English football, is younger and not as used to the english culture, is every bit as accomplished as Evans, who i rate as a very good player, not top class, but very good.

Insua has Aurelio to compete with who is a very experienced and quality Left Back. He's also jumped past Dossena, who, although hasn't set the English game alight, is still second choice italian full-back

Honestly, I dont know what to say to this. If you think that Insua is as accomplished as Evans then there is something seriously wrong with your judgement. Evans is a full international who has put in some world class performances at that level. I think he actually got MOM against Spain not too long ago!

Edit: Just checked and was wrong about the MOM against spain.

Do you think Insua has the same level of player that Evans has to compete with? He obviously doesnt and I really shoudnt have to point that out.

Pyjamarama

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Honestly, I dont know what to say to this. If you think that Insua is as accomplished as Evans then there is something seriously wrong with your judgement. Evans is a full international who has put in some world class performances at that level. I think he actually got MOM against Spain not too long ago!

Edit: Just checked and was wrong about the MOM against spain.

Do you think Insua has the same level of player that Evans has to compete with? He obviously doesnt and I really shoudnt have to point that out.

Stop the press, United fan in our young player is better than your player revaltion shocker on liverpool thread!!!

Insua is a superb young player, so is Evans. They play in different positions but i personally think that Insua is going to be a "better" player but i'm honest enough to admit it's likely a biased view the same as yours is.

And what country does Evans play for? What nationality is Evans. If you're going to dismiss the competition for places at lb for pool then it's fair to say that Insua is in the same situation at international level as Evans is at club level.

All_in_Flynn

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Stop the press, United fan in our young player is better than your player revaltion shocker on liverpool thread!!!Insua is a superb young player, so is Evans. They play in different positions but i personally think that Insua is going to be a "better" player but i'm honest enough to admit it's likely a biased view the same as yours is.

And what country does Evans play for? What nationality is Evans. If you're going to dismiss the competition for places at lb for pool then it's fair to say that Insua is in the same situation at international level as Evans is at club level.

I give up. I tried to have an intelligent debate and its dragged into comments like this. I wasnt here to debate who is better than who. I was dragged into it by some silly comments made.

All I was saying was that Rafa may not have any developed enough players to bring into the side yet. Hence why he bought Kyriokas(sp?).


The point made about Evan's International record was to show that he is the more accomplished player. Not that hard to understand I would of thought!

Pyjamarama

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

I give up. I tried to have an intelligent debate and its dragged into comments like this. I wasnt here to debate who is better than who. I was dragged into it by some silly comments made.

All I was saying was that Rafa may not have any developed enough players to bring into the side yet. Hence why he bought Kyriokas(sp?).


The point made about Evan's International record was to show that he is the more accomplished player. Not that hard to understand I would of thought!

Probably as hard to make the Argentina squad for the olympics as it is to make the Northern Ireland full squad... not that much more accomplished i'd say...

I agree with what you say is the main point of your posts but you scoffed at the mention that Insua could be as accomplished as Evans which imo shows just a touch of bias.

All_in_Flynn

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Probably as hard to make the Argentina squad for the olympics as it is to make the Northern Ireland full squad... not that much more accomplished i'd say...

I agree with what you say is the main point of your posts but you scoffed at the mention that Insua could be as accomplished as Evans which imo shows just a touch of bias.

Point taken but im generally not trying to be biased. I just would of thought that that it would be universally accepted that Evans is the more accomplished player. To my amazement I was wrong!

Headshot

Bandit12 wrote: »

For the record Insua is a hell of a young talent. Could be the best full back in the league within two years imo. Evan's for the record has the potential to be a good championship player.

nope fabio de silva will be

Handsome Bob

Headshot wrote: »

nope fabio de silva will be

Isn't Rafael the one who is the full back?

Headshot

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Isn't Rafael the one who is the full back?

raf RB and fab LB

sorted for the future

Handsome Bob

Headshot wrote: »

raf RB and fab LB

sorted for the future

Ah right for some reason I thought Fabio was a CM. Never mind.

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

nope fabio de silva will be

see, quite simply, you don't help yourself with nonsense like this.

has he made a PL appearance for Utd yet? but quite safely you say he'll be the best around.

4 appearances in total, at least 2 of which came in cups, think he may have 1 start! :rolleyes:

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

see, quite simply, you don't help yourself with nonsense like this.

has he made a PL appearance for Utd yet? but quite safely you say he'll be the best around.

4 appearances in total, at least 2 of which came in cups, think he may have 1 start! :rolleyes:

4 best appearances ever

and the post i quoted mentioned

"Could be the best full back in the league within two years imo"

and I said fabio would be

Handsome Bob

Headshot wrote: »

and I said fabio would be

I think Rafael is better. But enough of this Utd. talk! :pac:

Bandit12

Headshot wrote: »

nope fabio de silva will be

Very doubtful in all honesty. Lad can't defend to save his life. Need's a haircut also :pac:

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

"Could be the best full back in the league within two years imo"

and I said fabio would be

you saying Fabio would is where you let yourself down.

Insua has shown why he could very well be, Fabio, hasn't done anything for the first team since he's been at Utd, and has yet to make a PL appearance (maybe he has made 1 cameo?), whereas Insua has made a good case to be first choice LB for a team challenging for the title.

You obviously think the Evra is leaving Utd is Fabio is gonna be the best LB around in a couple of years?

8-10

I reckon Glen Johnson is more likely to be considered best full back in 2 years than Insua or Fabio. He's already highly regarded coming from a team outside the top 4, if he plays well and wins something with Liverpool I can see it happening.

Full backs are generally the unsung heros of any team. And it's the flashier, more attacking ones that generally get the plaudits.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

my good man Rebel already corrected the bull**** that was spouted about Evans, why would i say the exact same thing as him? thats how this thread clogs up with ****e.



you saying Fabio would is where you let yourself down.

Insua has shown why he could very well be, Fabio, hasn't done anything for the first team since he's been at Utd, and has yet to make a PL appearance (maybe he has made 1 cameo?), whereas Insua has made a good case to be first choice LB for a team challenging for the title.

You obviously think the Evra is leaving Utd is Fabio is gonna be the best LB around in a couple of years?

The 2 young Brazilians are the most exciting naturally gifted youth players in the Premeir league, they will be massive, if you had seen them play you would concur.

Insua is also a decent prospect.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

my good man Rebel already corrected the bull**** that was spouted about Evans, why would i say the exact same thing as him? thats how this thread clogs up with ****e.



you saying Fabio would is where you let yourself down.

Insua has shown why he could very well be, Fabio, hasn't done anything for the first team since he's been at Utd, and has yet to make a PL appearance (maybe he has made 1 cameo?), whereas Insua has made a good case to be first choice LB for a team challenging for the title.

You obviously think the Evra is leaving Utd is Fabio is gonna be the best LB around in a couple of years?

Fabio is very unfortunte because he got one of best LB's in the world to contend with in Evra

I'll stick with my would

fabio played against birmingham iirc played out of position too so he's a very talented lad

Bandit12

8-10 wrote: »

I reckon Glen Johnson is more likely to be considered best full back in 2 years than Insua or Fabio. He's already highly regarded coming from a team outside the top 4, if he plays well and wins something with Liverpool I can see it happening.

Full backs are generally the unsung heros of any team. And it's the flashier, more attacking ones that generally get the plaudits.

Whilst i'll agree that Glen is a quality full back without a doubt, i think the defending side of his game let's him down unlike Insua who seems to have the ability to get forward and still defend deep.

Pyjamarama

Boggles wrote: »

The 2 young Brazilians are the most exciting naturally gifted youth players in the Premeir league, they will be massive, if you had seen them play you would concur.

Insua is also a decent prospect.

WRONG! seen them play a fair bit as bro is a united fan so MUTV is on quite a bit. The most naturally gifted youth players in the prem are probably Wiltshire and Vela, and i'm a pool fan...

therecklessone

A good chuck of posts moved here from the Liverpool Superthread, keep that discussion here please.

RasTa

Rooney is world class, discuss.

gucci

Interesting article about the disgusting amounts of money some of the players in the premiership earn.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/westham/6080320/Lucas-Neil-down-245000-after-failing-to-agree-West-Ham-terms.html

I remember when he got the original deal, fecking crazy!

therecklessone

West Ham went through a few years were they rivalled Newcastle for stupid wages, that's why they have the likes of Parker, Dyer and until recently Neill on their books.

I don't blame players for asking for wages like that, I would in their shoes. The blame lies with the clubs willing to pay it, and willing to deal with the agents who help fuel it.

Mr Alan

RasTa wrote: »

Rooney is world class, discuss.

i disagree.

gucci

therecklessone wrote: »

West Ham went through a few years were they rivalled Newcastle for stupid wages, that's why they have the likes of Parker, Dyer and until recently Neill on their books.

I don't blame players for asking for wages like that, I would in their shoes. The blame lies with the clubs willing to pay it, and willing to deal with the agents who help fuel it.

I agree with you not blaming the players for chancing their arm and getting as much as they can. It just never stops amazing me what some guys pick up every week all things are considered!
Its irritating to see players chose to go to alternative clubs down the pecking order almost solely based on the wages though.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

i disagree.

You're wrong.;)

Discuss

everdead.ie

Did anyone notice the table is really starting to take shape now apart from fulham & everton who should switch places with burnley and stoke both halfs of the table have taken shape. Now it's just the ordering that needs to change, spurs top please:pac:

L'prof

everdead.ie wrote: »

Did anyone notice the table is really starting to take shape now apart from fulham & everton who should switch places with burnley and stoke both halfs of the table have taken shape. Now it's just the ordering that needs to change, spurs top please:pac:

I think ye need a bit more time before ye challenge, Harry is doing a good job though!

everdead.ie

oh ya i know was just being cheeky;)

therecklessone

Hull warned over finances

Hull’s accountants have raised concerns over the club’s “ability to continue as a going concern” should they be relegated from the Barclays Premier League.

The Tigers managed to retain their top-flight status on the final day of last season, and are currently third from bottom.

The accounts have now been filed, five months late, to Companies House.

The period covers the year ending 31 July 2008, when Hull made a loss of nearly £10m (€11n) as they won promotion to the Premier League via the play-offs.

This does not include any figures from the club’s first season in the top tier of English football, and the directors remain confident the next set of results will be much more positive.

However, auditors Deloitte nevertheless warn a surplus of some £23m (€25m) would need to be raised just to meet current liabilities.

Should Hull stay up, they would still, according to the report which is now a matter of public record, need to produce an additional £16m (€17.6m), with another £7m (€7.7m) needed should they go down.

The report read: “As is common with all football clubs, Hull City AFC will make player purchases and sales during the course of the season to manage the company’s cash flow as and when required.

“The directors acknowledge that player purchases and sales are uncertain in terms of timing and quantum and some uncertainty exists over the availability and quantum of additional facilities should such be required.

“These conditions indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the company’s ability to continue as a going concern.”

Hull, though, remain confident once the additional revenue from their first Premier League campaign is factored in – worth an estimated minimum of some £40m (€44m) – then the results for 2008-09 will be more positive.

Phil Brown aside, it would be terrible for their fans if something did happen, but it shows the insane amounts of money that are needed to be spent to reach and stay in the PL.