Do you respect the views of the religious?

robindch

Húrin wrote: »

The snooty atheist has no such constraint.

Which snooty atheist?

vibe666

robindch wrote: »

Which snooty atheist?

*waves*

garrincha62

jackpalance wrote: »

I respect their right to hold their beliefs.

I agree with this, no more, no less.

Malari

jackpalance wrote: »

I respect their right to hold their beliefs.

garrincha62 wrote: »

I agree with this, no more, no less.

Me too.

The only way I could be seen as "respecting" someone's belief in a god is that I wouldn't engage my boyfriend's mother in debate (simply state my views instead) because I know it would upset him. It's never come up though I suspect she knows I'm a godless heathen and I've converted him.

But it has come up with other friends' parents and I have explained how I feel without apology. I don't need their respect either.

Húrin

robindch wrote: »

Which snooty atheist?

vibe666

dvpower

Húrin wrote: »

If they were happy about it yes I would have my doubts. But if like many Christians they stoically accepted it as a matter of Biblical interpretation, I think that's OK. I would disagree with them but I wouldn't look down on them as moral inferiors to me.

Stoically accepting it as a matter of Biblical interpretation is one thing, but agreeing that it is just is quite another.

I wouldn't ask you to hold a Christian responsible for God's actions, but if they agree with God then surely this should attract some moral questioning.

robindch

Húrin wrote: »

vibe666

I'll arrange to have vibe666 burned at the stake after our usual pitchfork + torch parade this evening.

garrincha62

Malari wrote: »

Me too.

The only way I could be seen as "respecting" someone's belief in a god is that I wouldn't engage my boyfriend's mother in debate (simply state my views instead) because I know it would upset him. It's never come up though I suspect she knows I'm a godless heathen and I've converted him.

Why would it upset him?

The Mad Hatter

robindch wrote: »

I'll arrange to have vibe666 burned at the stake after our usual pitchfork + torch parade this evening.

Hold on - if snootyism isn't allowed, what are we supposed to do about Dawkins?

Malari

garrincha62 wrote: »

Why would it upset him?

Well, it wouldn't upset him per se, but it would make things a bit uncomfortable I suppose if I was having an argument with his mother? You'd have to have met her :pac: Her reaction is likely to be shutting him out of her life for a while as punishment for not choosing a nice catlick girl to spend his life with.

vibe666

robindch wrote: »

I'll arrange to have vibe666 burned at the stake after our usual pitchfork + torch parade this evening.

excellent, i knew I got my leather chaps and pink and yellow striped leotard dry cleaned for a reason.

ah, we really shouldn't take the p1ss out of them too much, especially when they do such a good job of it themselves.

garrincha62

Malari wrote: »

Well, it wouldn't upset him per se, but it would make things a bit uncomfortable I suppose if I was having an argument with his mother? You'd have to have met her :pac: Her reaction is likely to be shutting him out of her life for a while as punishment for not choosing a nice catlick girl to spend his life with.

Ah, I think I know the type! ex-GF mother a bit the same in the sense that if any non-religious views were aired she would switch off as if the conversation wasn't happening and the room would go all frosty! Sometimes its better to just say nothing for the sake of peace. That type of older generation had the rational part of their brain erased as kids, you have to just feel sorry for them. You heathen you!!

robindch

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Hold on - if snootyism isn't allowed, what are we supposed to do about Dawkins?

Uh, I dunno. Close our eyes and think of Emma Watson?

jasonbourme.cs

robindch wrote: »

Uh, I dunno. Close our eyes and think of Emma Watson?

lmao !!

personally people can believe what they want as long as they dont try to influence me or my choices in life

Sam Vimes

robindch wrote: »

Uh, I dunno. Close our eyes and think of Emma Watson?

*shudder*

vibe666

robindch wrote: »

Uh, I dunno. Close our eyes and think of Emma Watson?

if harry potter is going to be *our* jesus, would that make her mary magdelene then?

actually, did jesus have a useless ginger disciple who ended up slipping one to mary magdelene?

we're really going to need to think this whole "harry potter as the atheist messiah" thing out properly, or it's going to get messy. :pac:

Galvasean

vibe666 wrote: »

if harry potter is going to be *our* jesus, would that make her mary magdelene then?

No seriously, she looks like Dawkins. Dont believe me Google it.
I wont again >_<

Quentinkrisp

jackpalance wrote: »

I respect their right to hold their beliefs.

I absolutely concur!

fitz0

Galvasean wrote: »

No seriously, she looks like Dawkins. Dont believe me Google it.
I wont again >_<

That ruined her forever for me.

vibe666

fitz0 wrote: »

That ruined her forever for me.

she's definitely put me off the idea of slipping one to dawkins.

midlandsmissus

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

It depends. I regard their beliefs as mostly harmless, like believing in Santa and don't especially care what people think as long as it doesn't effect me. Its only when I am forced to endure something that is inspired by something religious that I would verge towards anti-theism.

Do you celebrate Christmas? Eat Easter eggs? Is it only when you are forced to endure negative religious associations, or do you also denounce positive (enjoyable) religious associations? My major bone of contention with atheists is: they denounce all the boring aspects and keep all the good aspects.

And if you want to say Christmas is a pagan festival....that is also a religion.

ChocolateSauce

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Do you celebrate Christmas? Eat Easter eggs? Is it only when you are forced to endure negative religious associations, or do you also denounce positive (enjoyable) religious associations? My major bone of contention with atheists is: they denounce all the boring aspects and keep all the good aspects.

And if you want to say Christmas is a pagan festival....that is also a religion.

Christmas is more a celebration about family and love than about Jesus (and is originally a celebration of the winter solstice; the beginning of the end of winter is worth celebrating IMO), easter eggs have nothing to do with religion (and if they did, I certainly wouldn't forgo chocolate for the sake of being stubborn). We don't denounce "boring" or "exciting" aspects, we denounce fabrications which are harmful.

Turtwig

midlandsmissus wrote: »

My major bone of contention with atheists is: they denounce all the boring aspects and keep all the good aspects.

And if you want to say Christmas is a pagan festival....that is also a religion.

Why not denounce all the bad parts of religion? After all that's what moderates have been doing for years.

Christmas is a peaceful Christian Festival so why denounce it?

kiffer

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Do you celebrate Christmas? Eat Easter eggs? Is it only when you are forced to endure negative religious associations, or do you also denounce positive (enjoyable) religious associations? My major bone of contention with atheists is: they denounce all the boring aspects and keep all the good aspects.

And if you want to say Christmas is a pagan festival....that is also a religion.

ahhh but we like parties... and in the dark cold months of winter a good party really shakes off those winter blues.
and as for celebrating Christmas and Easter... well I like chocolate but I don't make any mark of Easter other than noticing the eggs appear in the shops ... and then suddenly get a lot cheaper but then disappear from the shops for almost a whole year! :mad: Why don't they sell them all year round

I also don't Celebrate Christmas... I just buy some people some presents, have a few nice big meals and attend some parties... building up to the Big party that is New Year!

Does this count as Celebrating the birth of Christ?

Turtwig

kiffer wrote: »

Does this count as Celebrating the birth of Christ?

It does if you're caught singing:p

kiffer

Malty_T wrote: »

It does if you're caught singing:p

But those songs are so catchy!
So catchy that... that ... they must be true :eek:

bnt

Well, the question is "do you respect the views of the religious?", and I find it quite possible to treat people with respect, even though I might have no respect for their views.

In my experience, the problems come when people are so attached to their views that criticism of views is seen as criticism of the person. "Ah'm a Christian, and when you diss mah faith, you're dissin' me!" :rolleyes:

midlandsmissus

Malty_T wrote: »

Why not denounce all the bad parts of religion? After all that's what moderates have been doing for years.

Christmas is a peaceful Christian Festival so why denounce it?

He said:

Its only when I am forced to endure something that is inspired by something religious that I would verge towards anti-theism.

Christmas and Easter are inspired by something religious, so I wanted to know does he endure them? Or is it only the boring aspects he doesn't want to endure?

Anyway it's always easy to analyse what other people do to you, but it's harder to take a look at yourself.

For example, many people on this board have said they hate others pushing their views on them.
In the next breath, they talk of arguing their case with some-one, and that the other person was extremely stupid when they didn't agree with them. That is pushing your views on some-one!

State what you believe in but don't push it on anyone else.

I respect everyone's beliefs.

midlandsmissus

vibe666 wrote: »

deep down? no, sorry but I just can't.

don't get me wrong, i'm not going to take the p1ss out of someone who holds a strong religious belief in public (the internet is an entirely different beast tho, ye eejits! ), i have religious family members, but i find it very hard to take any adult seriously who still holds a strong belief in any kind of religion, no matter what it is.

any more than I could take someone seriously who still believed in ghosts and goblins, monsters under the bed or santa claus.

i recently found out that someone i know quite well (or at least I thought I did) was a seriously religious person and I pretty much lost about 90% of the respect I had for him overnight, despite the fact he is still the same person and does a good job and we can still have a laugh and a joke about most things, i just don't look at him the same way now I know this about him.

how, in the 21st century an otherwise intelligent, well educated, rational human being can still closely follow any religion is baffling beyond words to me, i just don't understand it at all and i look forward to the day when everyone comes to their senses and stop fighting over who nailed who's imaginary friend to a plank and the reasons why some other imaginary infallible creator would want us to mutilate babies by cutting the tips off their knobs when it was supposed to have been made in his (perfect) image, but then won't cut their hair for their whole f**king lives.

grrrr.

/rant.

Tbh that's the most frightening post I have ever read.

I'm religious and alot of my friends are athiests, and it would be the least thing I would care about.

So let me get this straight: you're saying that unless some-one has the exact same beliefs as you, you wouldn't be friends with them?
That's scary.
And it's extremely arrogant.
People who go round thinking 'I'm right and everybody else is stupid,if they could only just see how stupid they are being' are getting into dangerous territory.

Why do you care what he believes in? What is he doing to you?

I'll answer the last bit of your post: why are people religious in this day and age: it makes them feel happy,peaceful and uplifted.

Why should you care where people find happiness? If it's something that helps them, can you not understand that?

Sam Vimes

It's already been answered but Christmas is a festival about celebrating with your family and there was a winter festival like that long before christ

And easter comes from the old pagan goddess of fertility Eostre, hence the eggs. Fertility, get it?